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Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power, new teaser trailer

IDKFA

I am Become Bilbo Baggins
My point was that people are screaming how this is fan fiction, when it's no more fan fiction than Jackson completely inventing a role for Arwen in the trilogy in order to completely change Aragorn's character from what it was in the book. And Arwen wasn't the only character they changed like that. But people decide to ignore that while complaining about this.

Jackson was adapting a fully fleshed out book. Yes, he made a lot of changes, but the core of the story was pretty much how it is in the book.

This series is different as there isn't a fully fleshed out book to go from, plus the writers have already said that they're trying to create the book that Tolkien never wrote (Hubris!) And they want to stretch it out over five seasons?

It's fan fiction.
 

ManaByte

Member
Jackson was adapting a fully fleshed out book. Yes, he made a lot of changes, but the core of the story was pretty much how it is in the book.

This series is different as there isn't a fully fleshed out book to go from, plus the writers have already said that they're trying to create the book that Tolkien never wrote (Hubris!) And they want to stretch it out over five seasons?

It's fan fiction.

It's still being pulled from the text. This is adapting the parts of the Appendices that cover forging of the Rings of Power, the rise of Sauron, the fall of Númenor, and the Last Alliance. And hell the Estate is more involved with this show than they ever were with the movies as they're producing it.
 

IDKFA

I am Become Bilbo Baggins
It's still being pulled from the text. This is adapting the parts of the Appendices that cover forging of the Rings of Power, the rise of Sauron, the fall of Númenor, and the Last Alliance. And hell the Estate is more involved with this show than they ever were with the movies as they're producing it.

Appendices aren't fully fleshed out novels. It's fan fiction.
 

NecrosaroIII

Ultimate DQ Fan
Appendices aren't fully fleshed out novels. It's fan fiction.
It would definitely be better if they had access to Unfinished Tales at the very least. There are a few chapters in there that would REALLY help this show. If they had HoME access, it would be siiiick.
 

DKehoe

Gold Member
What do you think?
I genuinely don’t know. I’m not trying to start an argument here. Since I’ve heard people talk about the show this way before I’m guessing being woke? But that feels like quite a nebulous thing to be propaganda for. When I think of the term propaganda I feel like it’s promoting something specific.
 

Men_in_Boxes

Snake Oil Salesman
I genuinely don’t know. I’m not trying to start an argument here. Since I’ve heard people talk about the show this way before I’m guessing being woke? But that feels like quite a nebulous thing to be propaganda for. When I think of the term propaganda I feel like it’s promoting something specific.

An ideology isn't specific enough to propagandize?
 

Kev Kev

Member
Yes.

They're going to make five seasons out of very limited material. New characters have to be created. New scenes, locations, creatures etc etc. It's fan fiction, regardless who's on board.
This is you right now

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Just stop. You’re not making sense anymore (not that you ever did)
 

Kimahri

Banned
This is you right now

6quM15.gif


Just stop. You’re not making sense anymore (not that you ever did)

What has Tolkien Estate got to do with anything? They're not Tolkien, they didn't write the books, they didn't create it. They're just in charge of determining who makes money off of it and how.

If Amazon had access to Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales and the other works Christopher Tolkien edited and finished, then yeah, okay, maybe there would be merit to this not being fan fiction.

But this is basically the equivalent to taking "he rode a horse from Italy to Spain" and creating a relationship drama about the girl he met on the way and her crazy ex.

Even suggesting that Jackson et all created fan fiction while adapting a three part book that's around 1000 pages long, is ludicrous.
 

Kev Kev

Member
What has Tolkien Estate got to do with anything? They're not Tolkien, they didn't write the books, they didn't create it. They're just in charge of determining who makes money off of it and how.

If Amazon had access to Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales and the other works Christopher Tolkien edited and finished, then yeah, okay, maybe there would be merit to this not being fan fiction.

But this is basically the equivalent to taking "he rode a horse from Italy to Spain" and creating a relationship drama about the girl he met on the way and her crazy ex.

Even suggesting that Jackson et all created fan fiction while adapting a three part book that's around 1000 pages long, is ludicrous.
you keep going back to that argument while completely ignoring that tolkien wrote the appendices of the lotr, which is where this series is drawing its source info and inspiration from
 

ManaByte

Member
Even suggesting that Jackson et all created fan fiction while adapting a three part book that's around 1000 pages long, is ludicrous.

He invented an entire storyline for a character who has zero dialog in those 1000 pages and literally only shows up in the background of two scenes in the main text, and has a small mention in the Appendices. That's not adaptation, it's fan fiction.

But this is basically the equivalent to taking "he rode a horse from Italy to Spain" and creating a relationship drama about the girl he met on the way and her crazy ex.

But that's literally what Jackson did with Arwen.
 

NecrosaroIII

Ultimate DQ Fan
What has Tolkien Estate got to do with anything? They're not Tolkien, they didn't write the books, they didn't create it. They're just in charge of determining who makes money off of it and how.

If Amazon had access to Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales and the other works Christopher Tolkien edited and finished, then yeah, okay, maybe there would be merit to this not being fan fiction.

But this is basically the equivalent to taking "he rode a horse from Italy to Spain" and creating a relationship drama about the girl he met on the way and her crazy ex.

Even suggesting that Jackson et all created fan fiction while adapting a three part book that's around 1000 pages long, is ludicrous.
I wouldn't say that is entirely true. There are quite a bit of details in the appendices that you can build quite a few plots and characters that are drawn directly through the text. Yes scene to scene and the dialogue will be invented but they very much have details to work with.
 

ManaByte

Member
I wouldn't say that is entirely true. There are quite a bit of details in the appendices that you can build quite a few plots and characters that are drawn directly through the text. Yes scene to scene and the dialogue will be invented but they very much have details to work with.

This is basically going to be the series. Lots of good stuff in here:

The Rings of Power in the Second Age
About 500 years into the Second Age, Sauron reappeared,[T 17] intent on taking over Middle-earth and ruling it as a God-King.[T 4][T 15][T 21][T 22] To seduce the Elves into his service, Sauron assumed a fair appearance as Annatar, "Lord of Gifts",[T 13] befriended the Elven-smiths of Eregion, led by Celebrimbor, and counselled them in arts and magic. With Sauron's assistance, the Elven-smiths forged the Rings of Power. He then secretly forged the One Ring, to rule all other rings, in the volcanic Mount Doom in Mordor.[T 15] The Elves detected his influence when he put on the One Ring, and removed their Rings. Enraged, Sauron initiated a great war and conquered much of the land west of Anduin. Sauron overran Eregion, killed Celebrimbor, and seized the Seven and the Nine Rings of Power. The Three Rings were saved by the Elves, specifically Gil-galad, Círdan, and Galadriel. Sauron besieged Imladris, battled Khazad-dûm and Lothlórien, and pushed further into Gil-galad's realm. The Elves were saved when a powerful army from Númenor arrived to their aid, defeating Sauron's forces and driving the remnant back to Mordor. Sauron fortified Mordor and completed the Dark Tower of Barad-dûr. He distributed the remaining rings of the Seven and the Nine to lords of Dwarves and Men, respectively. Dwarves proved too resilient to bend to his will, but he enslaved Men as the Nazgûl, his most feared servants. Orcs and Trolls became his servants, along with Easterlings and men of Harad.[T 4]

Downfall of Númenor
Further information: The Silmarillion § Akallabêth
Toward the end of the Second Age, Ar-Pharazôn, king of Númenor, led a massive army to Middle-earth. Sauron surrendered, to corrupt Númenor from within.[T 23][T 3] With the One Ring, Sauron soon dominated the Númenóreans.[T 23] He used his influence to undermine the religion of Númenor, making people worship Melkor with human sacrifice; Sauron was his high priest.[T 3][T 24]

Sauron convinced Ar-Pharazôn to attack Aman by sea to steal immortality from the Valar.[T 3][T 15] The Valar laid down their guardianship of the world and appealed to Eru.[T 3] Eru destroyed the attacking fleet and armies, but also drowned Númenor, which was removed from the physical world, and destroyed Sauron's body, with his ability to appear beautiful.[T 23]

War of the Last Alliance
Led by Elendil, nine ships carrying faithful Númenóreans were saved from the Downfall; they founded the kingdoms of Gondor and Arnor in Middle-earth. Sauron returned to Mordor; Mount Doom again erupted.[T 25] Sauron captured Minas Ithil and destroyed the White Tree; Elendil's son Isildur escaped down the Anduin. Anárion defended Osgiliath and for a time drove Sauron's forces back to the mountains.[T 13] Isildur and Anárion formed an alliance and defeated Sauron at Dagorlad. They invaded Mordor and laid siege to Barad-dûr for seven years. Finally Sauron came out to fight Elendil and Gil-galad face to face.[T 15] When Elendil fell, his sword Narsil broke beneath him. Isildur took up the hilt-shard of Narsil and cut the One Ring from Sauron's hand, vanquishing Sauron. Elrond and Círdan, Gil-galad's lieutenants, urged Isildur to destroy the Ring by casting it into Mount Doom, which would have banished Sauron from Middle-earth for ever, but he refused and kept it for his own.[T 13]
 

Mikey Jr.

Member
I thought it looked pretty great.

Only way to watch this is go buy a year of prime right?

Because that's a bit too much for me.
 
This is basically going to be the series. Lots of good stuff in here:
It’s strange that we haven’t seen Gil-Galag pretty much at all in the trailer, seeing as he was the high king of the elves and the principal opponent of Sauron. Instead, we’re seeing “harfoots”.
 

sol_bad

Member
Look for patterns regarding characterization surrounding race and gender. Perhaps grab a notebook and jot down notes as you watch modern media to see if anything becomes obvious.

So if they pushed a white cast only really hard that wouldn't be an agenda? An F YOU to "wokism"?
IMO, unless a company is making a historically accurate film based around white culture I'd like to think the company behind the scenes is pushing an agenda if they are aiming for a white only cast.
 

ManaByte

Member
It’s strange that we haven’t seen Gil-Galag pretty much at all in the trailer, seeing as he was the high king of the elves and the principal opponent of Sauron. Instead, we’re seeing “harfoots”.

He's in the trailer. He's the one talking to Elrond in Lindon.

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Men_in_Boxes

Snake Oil Salesman
So if they pushed a white cast only really hard that wouldn't be an agenda? An F YOU to "wokism"?
IMO, unless a company is making a historically accurate film based around white culture I'd like to think the company behind the scenes is pushing an agenda if they are aiming for a white only cast.

Multiculturalism isn't wokeism.
 

ManaByte

Member
The same goes for people saying this damn quote. Did you echo everyone in the YouTube comments? The irony

It's funny because people don't really even know how this show came about and assume it's just evil Amazon shitting on LOTR for money.

WB and the Tolkien Estate were at WAR for years over the movies. But in 2017 when Christopher Tolkien stepped down from the Estate and Trust and his son took over (who wanted the Estate to have a better relationship with the films from the beginning, but Christopher overruled him) they ended their war with WB and both WB and the Estate wanted to make a show.

So they started a bidding war over the rights to produce a show. Amazon won it by paying the most, but Netflix and others were going after it. Whoever won the bidding war would pay for the show and distribute it, while the Estate, Trust, and Harper Collins (the book publisher) controlled it along with New Line (due to the movie rights).

If you want to make GENERIC_FANTASY_#34476 do a generic fantasy. Don't pervert what already exists, it's estabilished and already perfect.
Make your own fucking series.

There's never been a movie detailing the Second Age. How are they perverting that?
 
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BadBurger

Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
My point was that people are screaming how this is fan fiction, when it's no more fan fiction than Jackson completely inventing a role for Arwen in the trilogy in order to completely change Aragorn's character from what it was in the book. And Arwen wasn't the only character they changed like that. But people decide to ignore that while complaining about this.

To be fair to Jackson, that was totally the right move. The elf from the book that saved Frodo only appeared there, and then briefly at the Grey Havens at the end if I am not mistaken (haven't read the trilogy in several years). He made changes like that to focus on characters who were actually critical to the story and would be making repeat appearances. And Aragorn from the books really did need a little more depth to make him interesting to a modern audience (IMO).

In any event, I think we're all jumping the gun by comparing these two adaptations considering we haven't even seen the show yet.
 
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Kimahri

Banned
He invented an entire storyline for a character who has zero dialog in those 1000 pages and literally only shows up in the background of two scenes in the main text, and has a small mention in the Appendices. That's not adaptation, it's fan fiction.



But that's literally what Jackson did with Arwen.
Le sigh. You keep going on about Arwen like it's some great big point, but it just seems you don't grasp how adaptations work. Whoever adapts something for another medium will always change things in order to make it work. They'll even invent stuff of their own, does that mean the completed work is fan fiction? No, it means it's an adaptation.

Say it with me again now: Adaptation.

Now if you'd said The Hobbit instead, hey, I'd be with you. That's pretty much fan fiction, inventing a new character and making her the love interest of another character who wasn't in the original story, to mention one thing.

But no, you need to go on about Arwen, a pre existing character that is a very important character, who had her role expanded, in an adaptation.

If you can't see the difference between that, and taking the appendices, turning them into 5 seasons while proudly proclaiming "we want to write the book Tolkien never wrote", I don't know what to tell you.
 

BadBurger

Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
Le sigh. You keep going on about Arwen like it's some great big point, but it just seems you don't grasp how adaptations work. Whoever adapts something for another medium will always change things in order to make it work. They'll even invent stuff of their own, does that mean the completed work is fan fiction? No, it means it's an adaptation.

Say it with me again now: Adaptation.

Now if you'd said The Hobbit instead, hey, I'd be with you. That's pretty much fan fiction, inventing a new character and making her the love interest of another character who wasn't in the original story, to mention one thing.

But no, you need to go on about Arwen, a pre existing character that is a very important character, who had her role expanded, in an adaptation.

If you can't see the difference between that, and taking the appendices, turning them into 5 seasons while proudly proclaiming "we want to write the book Tolkien never wrote", I don't know what to tell you.

Using Arwen to very economically show (in terms of screentime) how Aragorn had deep and emotional ties to elvish society and their people was extremely effective. The alternatives, like showing flashbacks of young Aragorn in Rivendell, would have probably been unwieldy for movies that already had to be trimmed a great deal to get them down to acceptable runtimes.
 

Kimahri

Banned
Using Arwen to very economically show (in terms of screentime) how Aragorn had deep and emotional ties to elvish society and their people was extremely effective. The alternatives, like showing flashbacks of young Aragorn in Rivendell, would have probably been unwieldy for movies that already had to be trimmed a great deal to get them down to acceptable runtimes.
Yeah, exactly. When there are a lot of things that need to be told and limited time, you cut some stuff, add other stuff, and combine some. It's as you said, economical, and allows the main story aspects the time and space they need.

They did a fantastic job at it, imo.
 

Hezekiah

Banned
Not a fan of the books, but it doesn't look like this is going to be faithful to the source material available.

We've seen with what happened with Game of Thrones when the showrunners ran out of book content to adapt. Can't see it leading to a good result here. It should get good views for the early episodes at least, simply because Amazon Prime is indispensable for a lot of people.

Expecting to see lots tell-dont-show female invincible warrior empowerment messaging fluff on display too.
 

Bragr

Banned
Holy shit the trailer is getting butchered, they are up against it. They either have to hit it out of the park or this is another Game of Thrones season 8.
 

Hezekiah

Banned
Holy shit the trailer is getting butchered, they are up against it. They either have to hit it out of the park or this is another Game of Thrones season 8.
The ratio is probably awful, one of the reasons why the dislike figure was hidden on YouTube.

But not a good start for such an expensive show.
 

Tams

Member
? most places I see hate it. Trailer sitting at 29k likes and 129k dislikes.
And that's only from people who are using the Return YouTube Dislike extension. Who knows how many more dislikes there would be if the official count were added to it.
 
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