LOST 06.17/18/18.5: "The End" (Everything Else Was Just Progress)
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Son of Godzilla
Banned
Of over-exposed flashbacks.DeathNote said:
Son of Godzilla
Banned
tha'ts one long conArment said:
criesofthepast
Member
It's Tuesday. What am I going to do tonight?!?!
Rabid Wolverine
Member
antispin said:
Probably not. I think the individual seasons were locked. At least Season 3 for sure.
AgentOtaku
Member
Patryn said:But the point is that the mythology doesn't matter.
When they said that this was a show about the characters, they weren't kidding. It was about the relationships people grow, and how people interact with one another.
Frankly, I'm certain that it would have been impossible to explain the mythology in such a way as to make everyone happy. I'm sure that whatever they had tried to use would be lame in comparison to what's in your head. It's a version of the monster behind the door problem - no matter what, it's going to be disappointing, so you just don't play the game.
My only regret is that we never learn if the plane made it to land or not.
Also: Sun and Jin really are bad parents. They did leave their kid as an orphan
I think it was just a look at back at where they came from. And a look back at that expensive set they built
So yeah, just showed up to this thread but this is pretty much it right here.
Now for me personally, I was always more into the mythology of the show than the actual characters, so yeah, I'm one of those people who was disspointed.
Call me heartless, but I was mostly indifferent to the emotional/character beats/resolutions throughout S6 and the finale.
Still, I can respect everyone else who loved the show for the characters and their relationships. It's just I didn't in the end.
oh well =/
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
criesofthepast said:It's Tuesday. What am I going to do tonight?!?!
FUCK! FUCK!!! Gotta watch finale again, I guess...
"kiss me James"
"You got it, Blondie"
So fantastic.
Not sure what to think. Was in tears from the moment Hurley started to cry and then just let it all wash over me. After it had finished my wife and I just sat in silence for about 10 minutes, letting it sink in.
Today, after sleeping on it, I don't know what to think. I'll go back and read some of this epic thread, but mostly I feel confused by the entire alt-timeline.
I get that the island is real, everything they did was real (i.e not a dream, not purgatory etc). So Jack died just then, Hurley and Ben lived long and happy lives. Fine.
Then they all die, each at different times. Fine. So are they all in the church at the same time going up to heaven/wherever, or is that just for Jack? It all went a bit Jack-centric towards the end. I like to think they are all there at the same time, even though they died at different times.
So, moving on etc - again, fine. But why were they living alternative lives? Why was sawyer a detective? I don't get that bit, it was like they were in the matrix, not knowing their real past until some forced interaction by desmond (even though they were all crossing each others paths anyway, and Jack was married to Juliet!).
Thats the part I can't square. The main arc of the island was completed for me when Jack put the peg back in, and Hurley/Ben will look after it, and Locke was killed. So the last part was just character closure/happy ending. But I need the alt-timeline explained a little more.
"You got it, Blondie"
So fantastic.
Not sure what to think. Was in tears from the moment Hurley started to cry and then just let it all wash over me. After it had finished my wife and I just sat in silence for about 10 minutes, letting it sink in.
Today, after sleeping on it, I don't know what to think. I'll go back and read some of this epic thread, but mostly I feel confused by the entire alt-timeline.
I get that the island is real, everything they did was real (i.e not a dream, not purgatory etc). So Jack died just then, Hurley and Ben lived long and happy lives. Fine.
Then they all die, each at different times. Fine. So are they all in the church at the same time going up to heaven/wherever, or is that just for Jack? It all went a bit Jack-centric towards the end. I like to think they are all there at the same time, even though they died at different times.
So, moving on etc - again, fine. But why were they living alternative lives? Why was sawyer a detective? I don't get that bit, it was like they were in the matrix, not knowing their real past until some forced interaction by desmond (even though they were all crossing each others paths anyway, and Jack was married to Juliet!).
Thats the part I can't square. The main arc of the island was completed for me when Jack put the peg back in, and Hurley/Ben will look after it, and Locke was killed. So the last part was just character closure/happy ending. But I need the alt-timeline explained a little more.
Son of Godzilla
Banned
I just wish they didn't bother to explain anything. Who the fucking fuck cares that the reason the statue had four toes is cuz it was of a goddamn crocodile. And etcetera times infinity for all the stupid shit they "revealed" in season 6.
Anyways, for whoever's interested, the finale is currently listed at normal episode prices on Zune and probably iStore. Compared to the 3x or whatever they charge for normal season finales, it's a good deal. Just kidding, you'd be paying money for this episode so no way it's a good deal!
Anyways, for whoever's interested, the finale is currently listed at normal episode prices on Zune and probably iStore. Compared to the 3x or whatever they charge for normal season finales, it's a good deal. Just kidding, you'd be paying money for this episode so no way it's a good deal!
Son of Godzilla
Banned
I was seriously expecting Locke to just gut him mid-air. It's not like Locke ever displayed knowledge of how to throw a knife or anything.McBacon said:
B_Rik_Schitthaus
Banned
I didn't watch the show with that said one question did they ever explain how the massive fat guy stayed massively fat when he was deserted on a island.
SuicideUZI
Member
The island is like a corkTruant said:
Discotheque
Banned
B_Rik_Schitthaus said:
LOL I've asked myself this question many times. He's done plenty of walking/running too.
Truant said:
The truth is we do not know. The series ended up being more about the characters on the island then explaining what the island actually was.With the information we were given, the island is essentially the Garden of Eden, but not in the typical old testament sort of way, it has its own very different mythology. It also contains the building blocks for life or maybe human souls, and it needed to be protected because if it was destroyed then all humanity and the universe would be destroyed. So essentially there was this part of the island where if it got snuffed out, all life would cease to exist. But they never did a complete rundown of what the island was, and who created it, and what were the rules governing the island. In the end you just got bits and pieces.
Sir Hamish
Member
Not read the whole thread so apologies if this theory has cropped up before, but I think I know what the smoke monster is. I'm guessing its a manifestation of the island's power meant for protecting the island.
We've already had some strong hints that the smoke monster has been around before the MIB falls into the cave. Some of the Egyptian stuff we have seen indicate they worshiped the smoke monster in some way. Also, in Across the Sea there are several indications that the mother is in fact the smoke monster.
1. She kills a whole load of people
2. She fills up a massive hole in the ground with dirt in a short space of time.
3. She warns Jacob not to go into the light because it would be 'a fate worse than death'
4. She thanks the MIB when he kills her, implying she was suffering said 'fate worse than death'
I think this indicates pretty strongly that whoever becomes 'protector' of the island is supposed to enter the light and become the smoke monster and gain its abilities in order to better protect the island. It is essentially a weapon left behind by the whoever created the island, so its appearance and all the weird noises it makes are a result of intelligent (technologically advanced?) design rather than anything random. The ritual that Jacob goes through is only one part of the puzzle. Unfortunately his mother warns him away from going into the light, probably because she herself regrets doing so. The skeletons in the cave also indicate others have entered the light and are probably the remains of previous protectors who shed their physical bodies in order to become the smoke monster and protect the island.
However in this instance Jacob chucks the MIB down the cave instead of going down himself which results in the MIB gaining the island's 'weapon' instead of Jacob. Fortunately Jacob still has his powers over the island and the ability to set rules, so he puts some rules in place that prevent the MIB from ever being able to leave the island and unleash it's power upon the human race, which he would probably do since he has already told Jacob that he finds humans to be 'bad'. Jacob also acknowledges that the MIB may one day find a loophole in the rules and be able to leave the island, so he brings people to the island in the hope that he can change the MIB's opinion of the human race and if, one day, god forbid, the MIB does escape, he will be less inclined to decimate us. The MIB, in turn, tries to prove to Jacob that all human beings are bad, in the hope that one day Jacob will agree and stop giving a shit about humans and let the MIB leave the island to do whatever he wants.
I find it interesting that all the conflict in the show boils down to the upbringing of Jacob and the MIB. If the islands protector was a regular person with some life experience and hadn't been raised in seclusion with weird views of the rest of the species none of this conflict would have happened. Which is why I believe Hurley will make a good protector
We've already had some strong hints that the smoke monster has been around before the MIB falls into the cave. Some of the Egyptian stuff we have seen indicate they worshiped the smoke monster in some way. Also, in Across the Sea there are several indications that the mother is in fact the smoke monster.
1. She kills a whole load of people
2. She fills up a massive hole in the ground with dirt in a short space of time.
3. She warns Jacob not to go into the light because it would be 'a fate worse than death'
4. She thanks the MIB when he kills her, implying she was suffering said 'fate worse than death'
I think this indicates pretty strongly that whoever becomes 'protector' of the island is supposed to enter the light and become the smoke monster and gain its abilities in order to better protect the island. It is essentially a weapon left behind by the whoever created the island, so its appearance and all the weird noises it makes are a result of intelligent (technologically advanced?) design rather than anything random. The ritual that Jacob goes through is only one part of the puzzle. Unfortunately his mother warns him away from going into the light, probably because she herself regrets doing so. The skeletons in the cave also indicate others have entered the light and are probably the remains of previous protectors who shed their physical bodies in order to become the smoke monster and protect the island.
However in this instance Jacob chucks the MIB down the cave instead of going down himself which results in the MIB gaining the island's 'weapon' instead of Jacob. Fortunately Jacob still has his powers over the island and the ability to set rules, so he puts some rules in place that prevent the MIB from ever being able to leave the island and unleash it's power upon the human race, which he would probably do since he has already told Jacob that he finds humans to be 'bad'. Jacob also acknowledges that the MIB may one day find a loophole in the rules and be able to leave the island, so he brings people to the island in the hope that he can change the MIB's opinion of the human race and if, one day, god forbid, the MIB does escape, he will be less inclined to decimate us. The MIB, in turn, tries to prove to Jacob that all human beings are bad, in the hope that one day Jacob will agree and stop giving a shit about humans and let the MIB leave the island to do whatever he wants.
I find it interesting that all the conflict in the show boils down to the upbringing of Jacob and the MIB. If the islands protector was a regular person with some life experience and hadn't been raised in seclusion with weird views of the rest of the species none of this conflict would have happened. Which is why I believe Hurley will make a good protector
Still trying to wrap my head around "purgatory" existence. Don't think of the following as me trying to obtain concrete answers (there are none) but more as...thinking out loud.
So they....created it themselves for the purpose of finding each other again and reliving their experiences on the island. I'm not going to bother asking exactly how they ended up doing this as it is entirely unexplainable (as is the concept of the afterlife anyways even in reality).
But anyways, so did ALL of the island people (not just those in the church) who were affected by the island help create this reality? So people like Ben, Daniel, Charlotte, Miles, etc. What about those who were majorly affected by the island but didn't really experience their past lives yet like Alex, Rousseau, Ben's dad, Illyana, Dogen, Ethan, etc.
What happens to purgatory once a few select "move on" (like, do they not exist anymore in the "fake" reality?) Or does purgatory reality just mold around them into some new abstraction and keep doing this till the others wake up and decide to move on (like Ben or Daniel or Ana Lucia who wasn't ready yet).
David apparently just doesn't exist as he's a standing metaphor for Jack's previous life's daddy issues. But what about Jack's mom or Dogen's son who did exist in the real world. Are they furniture in this reality too created by the Islanders? What about their souls? What about everyone else in the world?
So they....created it themselves for the purpose of finding each other again and reliving their experiences on the island. I'm not going to bother asking exactly how they ended up doing this as it is entirely unexplainable (as is the concept of the afterlife anyways even in reality).
But anyways, so did ALL of the island people (not just those in the church) who were affected by the island help create this reality? So people like Ben, Daniel, Charlotte, Miles, etc. What about those who were majorly affected by the island but didn't really experience their past lives yet like Alex, Rousseau, Ben's dad, Illyana, Dogen, Ethan, etc.
What happens to purgatory once a few select "move on" (like, do they not exist anymore in the "fake" reality?) Or does purgatory reality just mold around them into some new abstraction and keep doing this till the others wake up and decide to move on (like Ben or Daniel or Ana Lucia who wasn't ready yet).
David apparently just doesn't exist as he's a standing metaphor for Jack's previous life's daddy issues. But what about Jack's mom or Dogen's son who did exist in the real world. Are they furniture in this reality too created by the Islanders? What about their souls? What about everyone else in the world?
C4Lukins said:
With the information we were given, the island is essentially the Garden of Eden, but not in the typical old testament sort of way, it has its own very different mythology. It also contains the building blocks for life or maybe human souls, and it needed to be protected because if it was destroyed then all humanity and the universe would be destroyed. So essentially there was this part of the island where if it got snuffed out, all life would cease to exist. But they never did a complete rundown of what the island was, and who created it, and what were the rules governing the island. In the end you just got bits and pieces.
Alright, thanks. I guess the 'spiritual' stuff really turned me off. I dug the scientific approach they had during S4, but then it got all 'We have a purpose, destiny, symbolism' yada yada and TV-shows never pull that off properly, imo.
Gamer @ Heart
Member
Jexhius said:
Im confused though now. Was he really talking about the smoke monster like we thought at the time or just the force that was tearing the island apart in the finale? The thing the literal cork we saw was holding back? Maybe smokey was just a side effect. A special person who by forces of their mom couldnt be killed by his borther and was thus changed, maybe.
VariantX04
Loser slave of the system :(
After the worst possible day trying to get home from work (made it home at 12 am), I meet up with old friends and experience one of the greatest moments of TV ever. There are still questions lingering but man what a way to end such an amazing series. TV hasn't moved me quite like this in a long time. Farewell, old friend.
infinityBCRT
Member
the continuation showed that same shot from far away, no?Son of Godzilla said:
I don't think the general consensus was he was talking about the smoke monster. There was a theory that Smokey smashing the bottle to allow the wine to release was a metaphor for him breaking the island to escape, but that never really made sense because the cork is the island, breaking the bottle doesn't imply breaking the island.Gamer @ Heart said:
The cork is the plug, the bottle is earth, the wine is 'hell'.
CabbageRed
Member
Gamer @ Heart said:
I don't think the smokey bit was ever really explained but:
I think that it was a security system. The steam whistle/roller-coaster's clanking were all too mechanical for me to think otherwise and established too early for me to ignore. I think a large part the MiB's transformation was due to the writers giving up on "Man of Faith Man of Science" and just going for "Men of Faith," but even then the MiB version of smokey could be viewed as a perversion of the security system. The "mother" was the protector before the boys came and she (IMO) could have had the abilities of both Jacob and MiB; perhaps even she had Jacob's power directly, and indirect over a non-autonomous smokey. Better still, she could have had her own MiB at some point, but he/she had died at some point, leaving the smokey powers dormant.
When the new protector, Jacob, tossed his brother in, either the joined powers split, or island's pre-exsisting systems assumed that the new person was someone to be entrusted with the Smokey powers.
Either way, the one thing out of this episode that "clicked" with me was the sounds that the light made when it powered down and up, and how it clearly needed a cooling system. I think whatever was down there was more than voodoo.
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