LOST 06.17/18/18.5: "The End" (Everything Else Was Just Progress)
- Thread starter BenjaminBirdie
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At first I thought, well Jack doesn't give a shit about Sawyer, but then I realized that Ben was a genius when he knew that Kate would escape her cage only to have wild cage sex with Sawyer on camera, giving Jack the desire to leave the island by any means possible. Brilliant!Drealmcc0y said:
Drealmcc0y
Banned
Apoc29 said:
Only 3 and a half years late
brandonh83
Banned
Drealmcc0y said:Only 3 and a half years late
Most of your posts sync up so harmoniously to your avatar. Keep up the good work.
Drealmcc0y
Banned
brandonh83 said:
What I don't totally get is why the Others acted all mysterious and, at times, straight up evil at first. Imagine how much pain and suffering would have been spared if they'd just come to the Losties from the start and said, "Hey, yo, we've got a sub to get you guys off this island." I mean, yeah, in the end things arguably worked out for the better, as the smoke monster was destroyed and the island got a new protector, but they didn't know that would happen.
By the way, if there are any PHP/web developers that are also members of LOSTGaf, send me a PM. I have a LOST-related project/web app that would be good to have ready by late August, when the complete collection and Season 6 release on DVD. 
In fact, the project is unique tied to the released of the complete collection. Cryptic, I know. But this is LOSTGAF, dude.
In fact, the project is unique tied to the released of the complete collection. Cryptic, I know. But this is LOSTGAF, dude.
Drealmcc0y
Banned
KevinCow said:
To be honest the only evil person was Ethan, but in "Dead is Dead" in Bens flashback, it showed Ethan was an evil little fucker from a young age.
Just the writers covering themselves probably
Apoc29 said:
The Others do whatever their leader (Widmore, Ben, etc.) wants, who claims to get their instructions from Jacob, but really, all Jacob ever does is give out lists of people for the Others to shelter.
Like dream said, Kate and Sawyer were emotional leverage. Ben could use Sawyer to manipulate Kate, and in turn could use Kate to manipulate Jack into giving him the surgery.
infinityBCRT
Member
Dharma was harvesting the Electromagnetic energy from the Island, Jacob likely told Richard to make them stop.KevinCow said:
Jacob was brutal in his ways at times, you can tell from the beat downs he gave in his flashback episodes. But thats expected from a 2000 year old dude. And also, Dharma was hostile to the Others. Remember they were trying to kill each other from both sides.
With the Losties it could just be that Ben was power hungry, it could be that Smokie was tricking Ben into doing it, and perhaps Jacob didn't stop it because he wanted to test the leadership skills of the Losties.
HowardRoark
Member
Blader5489 said:
So does the Smoke Monster/MIB jump with them? Because otherwise I can't reconcile Christian Shephard being in the Frozen Donkey Wheel room when Locke falls down the well.
Blader5489 said:
So you are saying that Jacob thinks that if the MIB learns how human beings lives' are precious he will not want to get off the island? That's a REALLY hard argument to win, considering he made it his life's purpose to leave the island. And also the brainwashing that Crazy Mother did to make them think they were not human themselves (well I guess MIB literally isn't human by that time).
Blader5489 said:
I did remember him checking the water when I was writing the post. I guess I'm just bitter that Jacob led them to the Temple with misinformation. At least heal Sayid if we're going to have to sit through that arc :lol
Blader5489 said:
Yeah, I guess when the show answers a lot of questions by "it's magic" it's hard to nitpick. It's just strange that we saw these seemingly important (and moving, in the case of the Cabin) structures but weren't relayed how they came to be or the logistics of how to find them (although like you said, implied). I just thought that these important structures deserved explicit explanations. It's really odd, I feel this season dragged a bit, yet other times I feel like they should've planned an additional season for answers like these.
Blader5489 said:
True. And me including the Island as a character messes up the strictly human aspect of the story. I just would've liked the scope to be larger (wow, I'm asking for more than 2 millennia!
). My ideal origin story would involve not an omniscient being, but the Island telling it's own history: each Protector keeps a log of the events in hieroglyphics. Or it could just be writings from the first Protector. Maybe have a scene of Crazy Mother bringing Jacob and MIB to a cave (THE cave, or not, doesn't really matter) and reading the hieroglyphics. Explaining the abilities of protector, and how and why they "make rules." I just came up for a way for them to read answers off from a list! :lol Speaking of which is the prevailing theory that the Protector should be the Smoke Monster and that Crazy Mother split the roles up for some reason? I thought I read that on here. Because like I said, the Smoke Monster really is built to be a great security system. Great for protecting Sacred Light. But then again, it's not my show jett said:
Catalix said:
Thanks guys. I've enjoyed theorizing and sharing ideas about the show. It's definitely one of things I am going to miss the most about not having any new LOST.
Oh wow.
Just finished the finale after my crash course in Lost, watching the last six seasons in two weeks, and this was such an awesome end to it. I mean, I still have a gazillion questions, but The End was so epicly epic. I really should have gotten into the show earlier so I could have spent more time with the characters, but I feel like I knew everyone after all was said and done.
The only thing I don't get is the whole 'death' angle. Like where they all dead the whole time? Or were they only dead after the crash? And if they were dead after the crash, what was the point of the flash-forwards and sideways that we saw? How was there a future and an alternate timeline when everyone was already dead? This whole part is the most confusing part of the final season to me.
Edit: I bet it's just me being slow and missing something obvious though. :/
Just finished the finale after my crash course in Lost, watching the last six seasons in two weeks, and this was such an awesome end to it. I mean, I still have a gazillion questions, but The End was so epicly epic. I really should have gotten into the show earlier so I could have spent more time with the characters, but I feel like I knew everyone after all was said and done.
The only thing I don't get is the whole 'death' angle. Like where they all dead the whole time? Or were they only dead after the crash? And if they were dead after the crash, what was the point of the flash-forwards and sideways that we saw? How was there a future and an alternate timeline when everyone was already dead? This whole part is the most confusing part of the final season to me.
Edit: I bet it's just me being slow and missing something obvious though. :/
DMeisterJ said:
Everything that we saw happened. They survived the plane crash. The Flashsideways in S6 were showing the afterlife for the characters; some of the people died before Jack, some died "long after"; the afterlife is timeless so no matter when the people died, they would eventually exist concurrently in the same afterworld.
DMeisterJ said:
Everything in the series happened. They survived the crash, some escaped, some ended up jumping through time, some died on the Island. Jack became the new protector and Hurley after him.
Flash-forwards of season 4 happened. They were time off the Island, after the Oceanic 6 escaped. They all happened before the Ajira 316 crash. The sideways in S6 were flashes to the afterlife. Everybody died when it was shown on screen, except for those who didn't die during the events of the series. They died some time after Jack did.
HowardRoark said:
Me neither. :lol
What I'm saying is that Jacob's goal is to prove humanity's good side to his brother, to make him less inclined to leave the island at the expense of the human race. It was a losing battle, though, since the people Jacob brought to the island just kept killing each other instead of bettering themselves, which only reinforced MIB's point about people being worthless.
Sblargh said:
They detonated the core of the bomb. "The Incident" was the bomb exploding along with the breach of the Island from the drilling, and that sent them forward in time. We never saw exactly what happened, but presumably it wasn't the same as if a bomb detonated absent the light's wackiness.
TheGreatDave
Banned
When Locke falls, there's a flash. To an unknown time. Then, when he turns the wheel, they flash to 1977. Technically the time Locke was in the well could be some time MIB could logically be at.HowardRoark said:
Anyone else left with a stronger sense of faith after watching "The End"? Not necessarily belief in god and religion but rather belief in the afterlife. Death not being the end of it all and being able to "move on" is a really comforting thought and Lost gave me a little bit of hope that it may actually be true
I know it's a TV show, bitches
I know it's a TV show, bitches
GitarooMan
Member
I finally got a chance to watch this (was on vacation and luckily avoided being spoiled) and just wow, I thought it was fantastic. Just a great, emotional, gripping finale to a great series. I was really happy with it.
And special mention has to be made to the musical score for the episode, which was amazing and hit all the right notes.
And special mention has to be made to the musical score for the episode, which was amazing and hit all the right notes.
Catalix
And on the sixth day the LORD David Bowie created man and woman in His image. And he saw that it was good. On the seventh day the LORD created videogames so that He might take the bloody day off for once.
When Locke was in the Donkey wheel chamber, it was sometime before 1867. We saw the statue.TheGreatDave said:
So why would MiB (as Christian no less) be there waiting for Locke? One logical answer would be that MiB was time jumping along with the other Losties, but even that would be full of holes. How would he have found a way back to the present day long before Sawyer and crew did? It makes no sense to me.
Catalix said:
It was actually before the donkey wheel was even created (the well wasn't made yet), which is crazy. I guess we are to assume that the chamber is in a different time than the rest of the island, even though that makes zero sense. I guess the chamber and the wheel were time jumping with everyone else? The entire time travel plot with some people going back in time, and some others not really doesn't make sense if you think about it, so I wouldn't over analyze it.
Catalix said:
If we're assuming he was traveling with the group through time, it's not much of a stretch to say he got spit out at the same time as Locke, but since he couldn't leave the Island it was just 2007 in the cave instead of 2007 in Tunisia.
bachikarn said:
The well was also covered up by Mother. Jacob could have buried it completely to prevent it from being found. Then again, the wheel room not being in the same time fits with the fact that it wasn't on straight in the past after Ben knocked it off in 2004...
KevinCow said:
I still say there was no plothole with Jack, that his dad wasn't actually there.
Michael may be another question, but there we can fall back on the idea that it was within the area considered to be the Island (the weird sphere o' Island magic that made Jin travel into the past) for all light-purposes :lol
SpeedingUptoStop
will totally Facebook friend you! *giggle* *LOL*
Am I the only one who finds it easy to believe Christian on the freighter is a ghost? He's wearing different clothes. Whispers from ghosts precede him. And the fact he's even there at all (to welcome Michael to the Island's purgatory) makes more sense than Smokey showing up to just watch Michael die for no reason.
Other ghost could see each other couldn't they, hence the whispers?KevinCow said:
However, other ghosts were never explained such as Juliet's conversation with Goodwin's wife (She may not have been dead though), Ben's mother, or Sayid hearing the whispers (Shannon too for that matter. They could have been Smokey too, but in context that wouldn't make sense.
JGS said:
I don't think Harper was a ghost, I think she can do what Walt can and project herself to communicate. She might also be psychic-ish like Walt, which would explain her being such a bitch to Juliet. I was actually thinking about the Harper character yesterday, wondering if it would have been better to see her more than once. I'm fine with the one-off, it was interesting that they introduced an Other with supernatural abilities all of a sudden though it would make perfect sense that they'd have somebody like that, having been stealing children and testing them to see if they are "special."
TheGreatDave
Banned
Locke fell because there was a flash. We don't know what time it was when he turned the wheel, but the statue was gone. At least if my memory is right.Catalix said:
TheGreatDave said:
I'm pretty sure we saw the full statue from where they were. Locke was in the donkey wheel chamber, while Sawyer was holding a rope that was stuck in the ground.
edit:
And this, on the other hand, is precisely what I hoped would come from the end of Lost. I've been annoyed to all hell with the MOAR ANSWERS NAOW people since the first season. I love the discussion and theories on what's going on with the Island, and I loved that every character in the know was revealed to know nothing by the time we found out about them. Lost could not have possibly ended better in my eyes. From a character standpoint and what happened to everybody in the finale, to the mythology and the ambiguity that was left even in the answers given.
Also, if there is ever a spinoff to Lost I will not watch it. I won't even acknowledge its existence. Anything answered in that hypothetical situation would be no more valid than any fan theory.
Dang, I left out the statement that he may have acquired the ability right before dying.KevinCow said:
Goodwin's wife could have been alive, I just couldn't see it since there were whispers and she disappeared so quick.
I don't know if that ghost can only be seen by Hurley rule is accurate though. Ben was never shown to be scanned by MiB as a kid and there were times she appeared right outside his window past the sonic barrier I thought.
If the dead can communicate with the living at all, then it should be possible for others to communicate with the dead as well in conversation. Until the producers say otherwise, I can't believe MiB was all the dead people running around on and off island.
My point's being missed.Blader5489 said:
I didn't think there was a rule out there that said that people could not see ghosts unless they were "special" in a Hurley way. As the writers have said, we see what the characters see which means we may not have an answer to the ghost question - obviously.
Jacob was a ghost too and at times could be seen by only Hurley and other times could be seen by others like the Candidates. Further, nothing indicated that MiB could look at apparitions the way Hurley could. His mother appeared to him just as Ben's mother did and no background was given indicating Smokey was his mother. In fact all we have to go on is the words of Smokey the liar in this stuff.
JGS said:
I'm pretty sure Hurley having to speak for dead people on multiple occasions was done to point out that he was the only one who could see them.
MiB just had the same power as Hurley. That's why he could see her, but not Jacob.
Jacob at the end was a special case. Throughout most of S6, we had both adult Jacob and kid Jacob wandering around. Adult Jacob was a regular ghost that only special people could see. Kid Jacob was a physical being, able to be seen by anybody. Then kid Jacob became physical adult Jacob after burning his ashes. Probably all just a rule that Jacob put into place. Point is, the Jacob that Jack and all saw wasn't a ghost.
When I heard they were going to answer the Hurley bird I thought it would be during the season. The whole first five minutes of the package until the showed widmores crew I thought he night vision thing monitoring them was the Hurley bird :lolRadogol said:
I have watched the original clash of the titans too many times :lol
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