LOST 06.17/18/18.5: "The End" (Everything Else Was Just Progress)
- Thread starter BenjaminBirdie
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Drealmcc0y
Banned
Willy105 said:
Really?
the fuck
CartridgeBlower
Member
After hating much of S6, I ended up really loving the finale. Caught me by surprise in that regard. Below is essentially my summation of the show, and by it, I'm at peace with it.
I think most people can agree there was a halfway point in the show, both structurally because they knew they were ending it, AND thematically.
It was of course the final scene from S3 -- the reveal of the flash-forward. Which was in itself the exact INVERSE of the show up to this point, the flash-backs.
This divide, this switch, is much more important than I think people realize.
Seasons 1-3 Dharma was looking for answers -- REASONABLE SCIENTIFIC ANSWERS to the mysteries they found on the island. Just like the characters and audience were doing.
Then came the break in the final scene of S3 -- the inverse -- not just in storytelling but in THEME -- and the show no longer became about the search for answers, but the search for FAITH. This was seasons 4-6.
And from this point on, guess what? The mysteries in the show suddenly made even less sense. They weren't black and white. They became MORE vague. You had to take them on FAITH and leave behind a SCIENTIFIC explanation for them. Jack's journey from man of science to man of faith is the center of this. But the whole show reflected this, as the audience's journey suddenly started to mirror Jack's journey. Leaving behind the search for scientific answers and just accepting many of the mysteries on faith.
And the more I think about it, the more I think this was a conscious decision by Darlton, and not a 'cop-out for not having real answers to the mysteries.' Things actually becoming more vague (as the quest for faith sometimes brings with it) until the VERY END...the point where you accept and realize your life's true meaning -- represented by the characters remembering their life on the island in the alt-timeling/middle realm/purgatory.
I think most people can agree there was a halfway point in the show, both structurally because they knew they were ending it, AND thematically.
It was of course the final scene from S3 -- the reveal of the flash-forward. Which was in itself the exact INVERSE of the show up to this point, the flash-backs.
This divide, this switch, is much more important than I think people realize.
Seasons 1-3 Dharma was looking for answers -- REASONABLE SCIENTIFIC ANSWERS to the mysteries they found on the island. Just like the characters and audience were doing.
Then came the break in the final scene of S3 -- the inverse -- not just in storytelling but in THEME -- and the show no longer became about the search for answers, but the search for FAITH. This was seasons 4-6.
And from this point on, guess what? The mysteries in the show suddenly made even less sense. They weren't black and white. They became MORE vague. You had to take them on FAITH and leave behind a SCIENTIFIC explanation for them. Jack's journey from man of science to man of faith is the center of this. But the whole show reflected this, as the audience's journey suddenly started to mirror Jack's journey. Leaving behind the search for scientific answers and just accepting many of the mysteries on faith.
And the more I think about it, the more I think this was a conscious decision by Darlton, and not a 'cop-out for not having real answers to the mysteries.' Things actually becoming more vague (as the quest for faith sometimes brings with it) until the VERY END...the point where you accept and realize your life's true meaning -- represented by the characters remembering their life on the island in the alt-timeling/middle realm/purgatory.
I still don't think pseudo-science/answers people should be upset. I'm one of them and I'm satisfied.
Desmond is the "pseudo-science" character in the final scenario. He's the one who represents that aspect of the show (along with Faraday). Consciousness time travel which Desmond went through was explained pseudo-scientifically by Faraday, and Desmond has had various dealings with electromagnetism that affected him in various ways - more pseudo-science. Desmond has never really been one of the "spiritual" characters like Locke, or like Jack became. He's always been rooted in the more scientific aspects of the show.
Also, and this is probably the most important thing, consider how Desmond was blasted by an electromagnetic machine (built by Widmore and his team) and how that actually transferred him over to the other side. This is very important because it wasn't some island creation that did it - it was a machine built specifically by Widmore and his guys, essentially regular humans.
There are two explanations for that:
1) The machine actually temporarily killed him, and that's how he was able to see and experience the sideways "afterlife."
2) The sideways was somehow created by and due to the unique electromagnetic properties of the island. Desmond getting blasted with energy can let him teleport there because the sideways is simply another location in space-time and directly connected to the island, and a huge surge of electromagnetism from the island can transport you there if you can withstand it.
Science vs faith. That's one of the show's largest themes, and the show is ultimately both. It doesn't necessarily pick a side, because none of the electromagnetism stuff has been invalidated or even trivialized by the finale. The coolest thing about it is that the show can be explained using either one. You can go with the point of view that it's all completely spiritual, or that the sideways is some pseudo-scientific creation only possible due to the unique properties of the island, or even a mixture of both. That's the beauty of an open ending.
Desmond is the "pseudo-science" character in the final scenario. He's the one who represents that aspect of the show (along with Faraday). Consciousness time travel which Desmond went through was explained pseudo-scientifically by Faraday, and Desmond has had various dealings with electromagnetism that affected him in various ways - more pseudo-science. Desmond has never really been one of the "spiritual" characters like Locke, or like Jack became. He's always been rooted in the more scientific aspects of the show.
Also, and this is probably the most important thing, consider how Desmond was blasted by an electromagnetic machine (built by Widmore and his team) and how that actually transferred him over to the other side. This is very important because it wasn't some island creation that did it - it was a machine built specifically by Widmore and his guys, essentially regular humans.
There are two explanations for that:
1) The machine actually temporarily killed him, and that's how he was able to see and experience the sideways "afterlife."
2) The sideways was somehow created by and due to the unique electromagnetic properties of the island. Desmond getting blasted with energy can let him teleport there because the sideways is simply another location in space-time and directly connected to the island, and a huge surge of electromagnetism from the island can transport you there if you can withstand it.
Science vs faith. That's one of the show's largest themes, and the show is ultimately both. It doesn't necessarily pick a side, because none of the electromagnetism stuff has been invalidated or even trivialized by the finale. The coolest thing about it is that the show can be explained using either one. You can go with the point of view that it's all completely spiritual, or that the sideways is some pseudo-scientific creation only possible due to the unique properties of the island, or even a mixture of both. That's the beauty of an open ending.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
thekad said:
Seriously. Yeah, you didn't see the whole sequence, but it was clear Sawyer had grabbed branches for leverage in the background.
TheGreatDave
Banned
Gonna watch the episode again in about 20 minutes I think. I was feeling super depressed at work just remembering Jack and Vincent, so I imagine I'll be forced to cry again.
TheGreatDave
Right about John Locke
Solo said:
TheGreatDave
Right about John Locke
â Narayan
Member
CAVE OF LIGHT.ChillWinston said:
MAGIC.
LOST.
overthehill99
Member
Have they talked about what is in the Complete Boxset yet? Obviously all 6 seasons, but what else extra? The picture they showed on JK was way too small to make out.
Well this is going be a long-read reading through this whole thread. But man i really liked the ending. (although i expect a lot wouldn't).
I'm usually a mythology > characters guy, but i loved how they handled the resolution of all the characters. The "purgatory" theme actually sat really well with me. I think they handled the spiritual elements better than the finale of BSG.:lol
Now about the mythology, i'm no doubt disappointed in how it was handled, but eh. Not the fault of the finale, more the fault of the season itself, they had plenty of time to explore some of the interesting elements. But they stalled throughout this whole season. I still stand that the pacing of this season was shit.:lol
mmm. Gotta think about the finale more, it feels so sad that the show is over now.
I'm usually a mythology > characters guy, but i loved how they handled the resolution of all the characters. The "purgatory" theme actually sat really well with me. I think they handled the spiritual elements better than the finale of BSG.:lol
Now about the mythology, i'm no doubt disappointed in how it was handled, but eh. Not the fault of the finale, more the fault of the season itself, they had plenty of time to explore some of the interesting elements. But they stalled throughout this whole season. I still stand that the pacing of this season was shit.:lol
mmm. Gotta think about the finale more, it feels so sad that the show is over now.
TheGreatDave
Banned
Blu_LED said:
Nothing specific. I really hope it's not just the S1-5 discs we already have. Throw me some extra shit throughout the whole package.
Solo said:
I was convinced Jack, as Jacob, was going to go offisland and meet with Walt. Mainly cos I was told he was in the damn episode and had to come up with some stupid way to justify it.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
Zeliard said:
That's my take on it. Well elucidated.
overthehill99
Member
TheGreatDave said:
There's obviously some collectors items in there, but what exactly they are is still a mystery.
Mgoblue201
Won't stop picking the right nation
That in my opinion is the least defensable attack on the X timeline because it helped clarify the characters; not their personalities or stories, but their validation and redemption after six long seasons of witnessing their flaws. It had the benefit of not being "real" but still being meaningful. And while I consider the idea a little banal, the juxtaposition with Jack walking through the jungle helped sell it to me.StoOgE said:
Was it ever explicitely stated that he didn't have one? I thought that it was supposed to be an artistic decision, like how the names of the characters in The Road are never revealed.KevinCow said:
randomlyrossy
Member
oatmeal said:
I really don't get how people are misunderstanding this.
Everything except the flash sideways was real, the sideways was "purgatory".
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
oatmeal said:
No. We are not to believe that.
ClosingADoor
Member
oatmeal said:
Wait, what? No. Only the flash sideways in S6 were 'fake'
â Narayan
Member
TheGreatDave
Banned
Blu_LED said:
There's obviously some collectors items in there, but what exactly they are is still a mystery.
I mean the actual discs themselves. I hate it when I just get the same old content in new packaging. At least give me some new menus or something (although Lost has great DVD menus, so maybe not)
Great, great, great ending for the characters. Was so fucking satisfying in that regard.
In fact, it almost makes me think that anyone complaining about the lack of explanation is missing the fucking point. 75% of what made lost great was the characters. 25% of what made it great is wondering what the fuck is going on every week.
The mysteries kept us hooked, but it was really about the characters and them learning to accept themselves and move on.
Fucking incredible show.
In fact, it almost makes me think that anyone complaining about the lack of explanation is missing the fucking point. 75% of what made lost great was the characters. 25% of what made it great is wondering what the fuck is going on every week.
The mysteries kept us hooked, but it was really about the characters and them learning to accept themselves and move on.
Fucking incredible show.
I think we should process the Lost ending, not as an audience, but as the losties themselves. Let me explain.
For me at least, watching Lost was about watching the characters. They were so well written, they we as the audience felt like we knew them personally, that they existed, and we were connected. When something horrible happened to them, we felt that. I'm not talking about the supporting cast (miles, lapadius, widmore, ect) but the losties themselves (Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sawyer).
So we are one and the same with the Losties. Sayid doesn't know how he was resurrected and neither do we. Jack has no idea who created that cork or what exactly smokie was and neither do we. We are on the same playing field as the characters themselves, and the connection over the 6 years has grown stronger because of that. It would have been completely out of character for the show to just bombard us with answers during this final season, when even the losties had no idea how exactly things were happening, just so that we would know.
The most important part of this, and why the finale really worked for me, is that at the end, I felt the same relief that the main characters felt after they remembered. They had found peace. They completed their destiny. And now they could move on. Do we know why the island existed? No...but neither does Jack, Desmond, Hurley, Kate, Sawyer, Jin, Sun, Claire, Locke, Ben, or Charlie.
For me at least, watching Lost was about watching the characters. They were so well written, they we as the audience felt like we knew them personally, that they existed, and we were connected. When something horrible happened to them, we felt that. I'm not talking about the supporting cast (miles, lapadius, widmore, ect) but the losties themselves (Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sawyer).
So we are one and the same with the Losties. Sayid doesn't know how he was resurrected and neither do we. Jack has no idea who created that cork or what exactly smokie was and neither do we. We are on the same playing field as the characters themselves, and the connection over the 6 years has grown stronger because of that. It would have been completely out of character for the show to just bombard us with answers during this final season, when even the losties had no idea how exactly things were happening, just so that we would know.
The most important part of this, and why the finale really worked for me, is that at the end, I felt the same relief that the main characters felt after they remembered. They had found peace. They completed their destiny. And now they could move on. Do we know why the island existed? No...but neither does Jack, Desmond, Hurley, Kate, Sawyer, Jin, Sun, Claire, Locke, Ben, or Charlie.
So I have found out that half of the world is the spawn of GOB Bluth.
LOST: I'm in love with your brother-in-law.
1/2 Fans: You're in love with your own brother? The one in the army?
LOST: No, your sister's husband.
1/2 Fans: Michael? [angrily] Michael!
LOST: No, that's your sister's brother.
1/2 Fans: No, I'm my sister's brother. [happily] You're in love with me me!
LOST: I'm in love with Tobias.
1/2 Fans: My brother-in-law?
LOST: I know it can never be, so I'm leaving. I'm enlisting in the army.
1/2 Fans: To be with your brother.
LOST: No!
LOST: I'm in love with your brother-in-law.
1/2 Fans: You're in love with your own brother? The one in the army?
LOST: No, your sister's husband.
1/2 Fans: Michael? [angrily] Michael!
LOST: No, that's your sister's brother.
1/2 Fans: No, I'm my sister's brother. [happily] You're in love with me me!
LOST: I'm in love with Tobias.
1/2 Fans: My brother-in-law?
LOST: I know it can never be, so I'm leaving. I'm enlisting in the army.
1/2 Fans: To be with your brother.
LOST: No!
TheGreatDave
Banned
Also, just so I know I'm not going crazy:
http://www.aintitcool.com/node/45203
The fucks your problem, Carlton?
http://www.aintitcool.com/node/45203
The fucks your problem, Carlton?
Solo said:
All were pretty golden, but of what you posted, I'd pick Claire/Charlie. Simply because it has been YEARS since that relationship has been touched upon. Kate was just there, though logical that it would be the birth to wake her. It was all about Claire and Charlie. Hell, Mostly Charlie. Him breaking up destroyed me.
Sun and Jin, just died recently. It was great, but I had as much emotional "tug" when Sawyer showed up later for their little scene ("Detective" :lol)
Locke's was great, because it went as how I thought it might turn out. How it's nice to see that Locke was still around, and yes, the little touch of Locke'd Out Again.
The Ben and Locke scene was good too.
The strongest emotional scenes for me is a mixture of the ending montage as Jack lays down, Charlie and Claire, Juliet and Sawyer, and I'd have to say the plane taking off.
I'm thinking, the one obvious emotional piece that was not shown or "pulled on" in the finale, which is a surprise, was Desmond and Penny. I mean, yeah, guess they had Happily Ever After, but not much in this.
dorkimoe
Member
TheGreatDave said:
1) technically he is in it
watch the flashes2) maybe he was trying to either be a smartass about the part he does appear, or he was throwing us off the trail
Also.. instead of the island being sunk during the hurley and ben years, i wonder if its sunk in the alt timeline because that was created by THEM and in their minds they were better off without the actual island. (maybe if they would have showed the island again in the alt timeline once everyone "realized" they were dead then it would have been above ground?)
overthehill99
Member
Well, according to Amazon there is a full disc for stuff that is exclusive to the Complete Collection.TheGreatDave said:
I'm glad I waited and didn't buy any seasons. With the show being easily accessible in HD from Netflix, there was no point in me buying all the seasons, since I knew there was going to be a huge boxset at the end.
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