PhoenixDark
Banned
KevinCow said:
Pretty weak. Witmore's motives make sense, but everything else is vague to me. Showing what the island can do doesn't explain what it is, and the good energy/bad energy thing is laughable. A cork? Seriously?
LOST 06.17/18/18.5: "The End" (Everything Else Was Just Progress)
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Pretty weak. Witmore's motives make sense, but everything else is vague to me. Showing what the island can do doesn't explain what it is, and the good energy/bad energy thing is laughable. A cork? Seriously?
Freyjadour
Member
Insertia said:
Hurr.
L O S T
Desmond thought it was his job to bring everyone to the alt timeline. He saw flashes of it, but didn't actually understand that what he was seeing was the afterlife. He stopped the light thinking it would transport all of his friends to safety/happiness, which is why he had a breakdown towards the end. Jack understood that Desmond was brought back to the island "for a reason" and the only possible reason would be to stop Flocke, he just didn't exactly know how until Desmond put out the light.GDJustin said:
Charlie is there sitting next to Claire. He is so tiny you probably couldn't see him behind Jack.
Doublethink
Banned
Just re-watched the episode and it was just as amazing the first time around. Miles's duct tape line was absolutely hilarious.
I think Jacob's and MIB's mom was brought to the island by that woman protector/fake mom. I think she was half crazy from being alone,wanted kids, and a new protector. She didn't want them to leave for. MIB becoming smokey seemed to have trapped some of the island light in him. They said many things like messing with the light and letting Smokey leave will cause something worse than death and they will lose the people they care about forever. In the finale we see death doesn't matter as much as being able to move on with people you care about does.GDJustin said:
Byakuya769
Member
Something else that I find somewhat iffy. Why would you leave the reunion with all your friends from the most important time of your life to venture into the unknown of the after life? Also, was the prospect of raising even the semblance of their daughter not important to Jin and Sun? As a parent I just find that a bit hard to swallow, that's what she said.
Byakuya769
Member
itxaka said:
Time has no meaning in la x. Then is now, now is then.
That's funny because I feel like my disappointment would have been even greater if I had only watched the show for the characters, considering that the final resolution was so simplistic. Everyone was reunited and basking in this perfect happiness, waiting to ascend into heaven / achieve enlightenment / whatever you want to call it. There was no depth to it.duckroll said:
Byakuya769
Member
ivedoneyourmom said:
You sure? It seemed like the reunion allowed them to move on. I'm not so sure that they get to move on together and spend eternity together. I took it to mean that they can move on together, but there is no guarantee that they remain together once they take the next step.
Madrin said:
Many of the characters' "progress" was born from regressions, as well. Take Sayid for example. Sayid went through great lengths to make up for his past in season one. In Season two he even chose to not kill Ana Lucia after she shot Shannon. Most of the rest of his time on the island was spent helping the group, and being a dependable rock.. until he gets off the island. Then suddenly he regresses and returns back to the island to now be tormented by the sins of his past. Only to then go on and become tainted.
He went from A ->B then B -> A then back to A -> B
Not real character development. Just contrived fluff.
But they didn't raise her, they didn't even birth her before moving on. Also, was that really their daughter and not just another imaginary construct like Jack's son? Or was the daughter's life so boring that the most important part of her life was when she was a baby?ivedoneyourmom said:
This, a hundred times this.GDJustin said:I just watched it. I liked it quite a bit. I'll keep my impressions brief-ish since I'm not the world's biggest LOST fanatic and probably don't have anything to say that others haven't said.
- All the "flashes" in the flash-sideways were really emotional. They are also a fairly organic and "natural" way to give the finale a true finale feeling, by showing clips from all the other seasons. Well done.
- I think the explanation for the Alt-universe is good... it makes sense and brings closure, in a LOST sorta way. But it DOES have the effect of giving some characters a truly tragic character arc. Locke specifically. [b[These characters (Locke, Jin, Sun, Sayeed) died with business unresolved and character arcs incomplete, but we (the audience) still had them in the flash-sideways, so we could take solace in that. But no, it turns out that end really WAS the end, for all those characters. Poor Locke[/b]
- So, we got answers about the flash-sideways, but no answers about the island :/ I'm OK with the "light" - better to leave that ambiguous rather than over-explain it. But everything with Desmond remaining unresolved bugs me. What did he THINK he was going to do? And why did Jack think that it was going to kill Flocke? Desmond's entire "on the island" story in Season 6 is a little more undercooked than I would like.
- Am I mistaken or is Charlie not at the Church at the end?
- I think the biggest failing of Season 6, and maybe the biggest failing of ALL of Lost, is that the stakes are never properly set. So MiB can't leave the island. Why? Because he's evil? What will happen if he does? What happens if the light goes out? I'm fine with ambiguity, but when you introduce ambiguity with your villains and what is at stake... then there is no drama.
Without knowing what happens if Flocke escapes, it isn't dramatic seeing him try, and seeing the candidates try to stop him.
- Summing up: Good flash-sideways conclusion, so-so island conclusion (over the course of the whole season), mostly pleased with what was explained and what wasn't, with a few exceptions.
How long until the official GAF re-watch?
The vague statements about the consequences of not stopping MiB (everything will be gone -- what, the world? The universe? Just the island?), the vulnerability and mortality of MiB after the light is extinguished (THAT is the evil we have to be worried about unleashing upon the world?), and the fact that you can simply plug the cork back in after its been pulled out...all these weaknesses rob the final island sequences of any suspense. Combine that with a final ten minutes that effectively says that none of it matters because you'll just see everyone when you die anyway, and I was left with a pretty empty feeling when it was all over.
But hey, at least I have characters at the end, right? The ones mired in their baseline personas throughout the series and who, with a couple of exceptions, did not demonstrate noticeable changes or growth because the creators insisted on using the flashbacks to hammer home the same single note for each character (Kate runs, Hurley is a nice guy, Sayid is the conflicted torturer, Jack needs to fix things, etc...)?
I really enjoyed the show and watched every single episode since 2004. And I will always take away that feeling of mystery and discovery from the early seasons. But this ending, while sweet and emotional at times (especially Sawyer and Juliet above all), didn't work.
Madrin said:
Sounds like you're still looking for answers and "resolution" even when you try to imagine yourself watching the show for the characters. Speaking personally, when I say I watch the show for the characters, it is not about watching for a resolution or a complex answer to anything. It is about following the characters on a journey because they're interesting people and I want to see what they do next in the context of the show. The ending is extremely satisfying because it is NOT simplistic.
It basically says that there are no easy endings in life, and everyone's journey in life is different. Some are cut short, some have more meaningful and longer existences. Some people die accomplishing what they set out to do, some die because of the actions of others. But in the end, there is hope that everyone can find themselves in a better place after life's journey, and there they can find what was out of their grasp in life itself.
It doesn't make living any less meaningful, or the experiences gained in life any less useful. Everything that happens is a learning process in a person's development, it is all progress, and it only ends once.
CabbageRed
Member
thetrin said:
What? They created their purgatory with their strong memories of their time together. All the other people would have been fake.
thetrin said:
I don't really think this is true either. Aaron is a baby, so clearly he represents Claire's memory of her childbirth being the most important event in her life. The Aaron in the church most likely does not represent the real Aaron, who grew up and had his own life and never saw the island again. He would have his own circle of friends who were most important to him, and his own afterlife.
Reave
Member
I just find it interesting that this clip could be a hint to Locke becoming the face of the MIB/Smoke Monster.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5XpR4XuJUE&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5XpR4XuJUE&feature=related
Byakuya769 said:
Ok thanks.
Still I don't feel like it ended ok. You could probably strip all the sideways thing from all season 6 and you will end with the same series. I can see what they did and well, not bad but I expected a different thing.
And also, I was waiting for something huge to happen at the end on the island.
Fucking Jack coming back as the smoke monster with Hugo being Jacob-2 and Ben being Richard. When we see Jack at the same spot as Jacob's brother after his transformation, I was waiting for this:
*Hugo is sitting there looking at a ship that is coming to the island
*Jack appears and sits down.
Jack: Do you have any idea how badly I wanna kill you?
Hugo: Yes.
Jack: One of these days, sooner or later... I'm going to find a loophole, my friend.
Hugo: Well, when you do, I'll be right here.
LOST
:lol :lol :lol
Also, why did Hugo asked Ben to be his second in command? I know he didn't have a real choice but Ben? Liar, killer, moral ambiguous. I don't know if someone as Huge should have a person like that helping him.
itxaka said:
Made better.
I guess that Hugo sees the best in people and he could see the decent man at Ben's core, just like the version of Ben we saw in the X timeline. Also, Ben had a shitload of XP so he was definitely the man for the job.
Haha, I noticed that awhile back when rewatching Walkabout. It's a cute little easter egg.
disappeared
Banned
itxaka said:
I think you're fishing in an empty lake here, bud.
Jex
Member
I was always just watching LOST for the characters and the plot, I suppose. That's why I tend to watch most of everything else. I'm still satisfied by the end but that's because I just gave up on any good answers throughout this season, after the the onslaught of stupid explanations.
Yes. Exactly. The thing that is so maddening about it is that it is so completely divorced from the story of the previous 5 seasons and even the island half of season 6. You can't just suddenly introduce the purgatory thing out of nowhere in the final act without it feeling like it's tacked on to give resolution to all the character arcs you prematurely killed. At least if the sideways had some kind of effect on the main timeline or if the flashbacks had been purgatory since the beginning, it might have felt earned, but the way they executed it, it feels like some kind of unwieldy Indiana Jones serial with some religious claptrap duct taped to the end.Korey said:
And I actually really liked it as an send off for the characters, and thought it was an awesome 2 and a half hours of television, but it felt like they cheated to get it. As character resolution it was great, but as an ending to the plot being told for the last 6 years it kind of sucked.
Jak140 said:
Personally, I don't see the sideways/purgatory as the ending though. I see it as just an epilogue, a coda for all the characters, rather than the conclusion of the story.
The ending for LOST happens in the present: Hurley and Ben take over the island, everyone leaves on the Ajira plane, and Jack watches it fly overhead as he dies. That's the ending to the story.
After all, the final shot of the series isn't everyone in the church moving on to the afterlife -- it's Jack, closing his eyes.
Snuggler said:
Indeed :lol
That's why it should be Hurley and not you. Because Hurley is a nice guy, and he believes in second chances. He also isn't a douchebag who thinks he knows better than everyone else, since he actually listens to Ben's suggestions too.
I guess he is the right one to do the job as he let her "daughter" die to save the island but...well yes, you are right about it.
And I will do an awesome Job being the protector. I will throw people to the ligth to have an army of smoke monsters, and on saturday nigths they would figth in a ring in double teams. Smoke monster + polar bear teams. Awesome.
Me not understand you, friend.
I agree, except that I think this is the take-away message from the journey the characters have traveled over the course of the entire show, rather than just the ending.duckroll said:
See, that right there is the problem for me. You can phrase it as eloquently as you want, but I read that as "and they live happily ever after." After all that these characters have been through, after all the strides they have made in coming to grips with reality and their place in the world, after all the personal growth that we have witnessed in these characters, all we get is a sappy reunion?
For a show that portrays such three-dimensional characters, it feels like an insult to end on such a one-dimensional note of joy. I simply feel like the ending was at odds with the caliber of character development we are accustomed to seeing.
Woo-Fu
Banned
Have to feel sorry for the writers.
"None of the stuff we've done the past five seasons holds together in any sort of logical fashion. Just ignore that and we'll take up half of every episode with that purgatory fanfic somebody sent in. The viewers won't care about what it was all about as long as we have lots of couples reunions and the good guys go to heaven while the evil ones end up teaching high school kids for eternity---sounds like hell to me."
I like Lost but pretending like there was a cohesive story arc past the first season is just that, pretending.
Who cares about Jacob's origin story? Give us the real origin story, the story of the first protector. While you're at it, perhaps explain how the light is connected with the rest of the earth other than, "every man has a little light inside him and every man wants more." Heck, they could have been describing Bud Lite with that line.
If protecting the light from man was so all fired important somebody really dropped the ball inviting the Dharma Initiative to drill holes and build bases all over the place.
And the cork? the cork was a classic. It is the only cork in the history of the world where the liquid flows AFTER you put the cork in instead of when you take it out. There was a stream, flowing into the cave, over a waterfall and into the central pool. Removing a plug from the bottom of the pool stops the creek and the waterfall? Imagine if bathtubs started working like that. Desmond would have to visit all of our houses just to keep us from flooding.
...and the plane at the end. All this time they've been fighting and struggling to get on that plane and when they do, nothing happens. We go right from takeoff to the afterlife, buzzing Jack's death scene in the process.
Lol, I remember back during the first or second season where the producers said there was no magic, no mysticism, that everything could and would be explained. We still don't know what the smoke monster really was. We do know you might become one if you go into the pool at the bottom of the light cave, well, if you're not Desmond who is seemingly immune to electromagnetism, or Jack because well, because we couldn't very well have a happy ending in the church of heaven if Jack turned into a smoke monster too.
Richard's big ending scene, talk about an anti-climax. "Oh, I've got a grey hair. Now I really do want to live forever." Gee, I guess that is why he wasn't in the church, he is still alive.
"None of the stuff we've done the past five seasons holds together in any sort of logical fashion. Just ignore that and we'll take up half of every episode with that purgatory fanfic somebody sent in. The viewers won't care about what it was all about as long as we have lots of couples reunions and the good guys go to heaven while the evil ones end up teaching high school kids for eternity---sounds like hell to me."
I like Lost but pretending like there was a cohesive story arc past the first season is just that, pretending.
Who cares about Jacob's origin story? Give us the real origin story, the story of the first protector. While you're at it, perhaps explain how the light is connected with the rest of the earth other than, "every man has a little light inside him and every man wants more." Heck, they could have been describing Bud Lite with that line.
If protecting the light from man was so all fired important somebody really dropped the ball inviting the Dharma Initiative to drill holes and build bases all over the place.
And the cork? the cork was a classic. It is the only cork in the history of the world where the liquid flows AFTER you put the cork in instead of when you take it out. There was a stream, flowing into the cave, over a waterfall and into the central pool. Removing a plug from the bottom of the pool stops the creek and the waterfall? Imagine if bathtubs started working like that. Desmond would have to visit all of our houses just to keep us from flooding.
...and the plane at the end. All this time they've been fighting and struggling to get on that plane and when they do, nothing happens. We go right from takeoff to the afterlife, buzzing Jack's death scene in the process.
Lol, I remember back during the first or second season where the producers said there was no magic, no mysticism, that everything could and would be explained. We still don't know what the smoke monster really was. We do know you might become one if you go into the pool at the bottom of the light cave, well, if you're not Desmond who is seemingly immune to electromagnetism, or Jack because well, because we couldn't very well have a happy ending in the church of heaven if Jack turned into a smoke monster too.
Richard's big ending scene, talk about an anti-climax. "Oh, I've got a grey hair. Now I really do want to live forever." Gee, I guess that is why he wasn't in the church, he is still alive.
I think the ending was perfect, it was 'happily ever after' in a sense but it was also a bit more than that because it said that the interactions we've watched and the bonds they've formed were the most important things that happened in their lives, so even though Sawyer & Kate left the island they never got close to getting over who they lost there, Hurley never got over Libby, etc etc
It was the ultimate conclusion in that sense.
The only really disappointing thing to me was Desmond in the real world, I guess he was the failsafe Jacob wanted him to be because he took away Smokies powers, and i thought actually 'getting into the sideways world' was a really brilliant motivation but they didn't really examine it very well, would have been nice to see Desmond have a conversation with Jacob and set up that maybe everything wouldn't go as he hoped.
They made up for that with how superb Desmond was in the sideways world though, all his morally questionable actions make sense now, he knew he couldn't hurt anyone because they were already dead.
I think this is my favourite TV finale ever, it just sits really happily in my mind.
It was the ultimate conclusion in that sense.
The only really disappointing thing to me was Desmond in the real world, I guess he was the failsafe Jacob wanted him to be because he took away Smokies powers, and i thought actually 'getting into the sideways world' was a really brilliant motivation but they didn't really examine it very well, would have been nice to see Desmond have a conversation with Jacob and set up that maybe everything wouldn't go as he hoped.
They made up for that with how superb Desmond was in the sideways world though, all his morally questionable actions make sense now, he knew he couldn't hurt anyone because they were already dead.
I think this is my favourite TV finale ever, it just sits really happily in my mind.
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
TheLastFantasy said:
i know this was posted awhile ago but let me see if i can explain..
As far as Richard knows they died in the 70s Incident. Yes he knows they crash on the Island in the 2000s but he also knows that they travel back in time and then are at the center of a nuclear detonation. At the point when Sun asked him about their fate Richard had not known about their eventual return to their rightful place in time.
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