LOST 06.17/18/18.5: "The End" (Everything Else Was Just Progress)

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Sadist said:
Thinking about the finale and of course several scenes with Ben, it's funny how Hurley and he became friends. Well, I assume they became friends because he asked for his expertise and calling him an "awesome number two" But I also remember a certain scene :lol

axbdr9.gif
such a great scene :lol
But yeah, of course they became friends. The "number two" thing meant that the two of them were on the island for many more years.
 
Sadist said:
Thinking about the finale and of course several scenes with Ben, it's funny how Hurley and he became friends. Well, I assume they became friends because he asked for his expertise and calling him an "awesome number two" But I also remember a certain scene :lol

axbdr9.gif

:lol

My goodness if they only knew.

What a great little journey this show was.

:D
 
You have to wonder tho, why the fuck would Jacob keep bringing people to the island, since MIB was trapped and couldn't kill him anyways.
When he was chatting with MIB on the beach about people being good/bad (when they were looking at the Black Rock heading towards the island), his point was still trying to prove MIB wrong. That was reminiscent of the discussion Jacob had with his brother when he was living with that tribe.
But at that point, that wasn't his brother anymore, just some form of evil "being" trying to escape and destroy everything. Why would you even care trying to prove this entity wrong? That would clearly never happen.
 
Sadist said:
Thinking about the finale and of course several scenes with Ben, it's funny how Hurley and he became friends. Well, I assume they became friends because he asked for his expertise and calling him an "awesome number two" But I also remember a certain scene :lol

axbdr9.gif
And that scene took place just a couple of weeks ago for them :lol
 
BenjaminBirdie said:
And plus Cuse and Lindelof have explicitly and repeatedly said that they'll never fully explain the ending. It's supposed to be open to individual interpretation.

The only thing I'd really want to know is production related stuff. I'd be interested to know exactly what they imagined the finale scene to be; if it was just Jack closing his eye after saving everyone, or if it included the sideways world.
 
Raist said:
You have to wonder tho, why the fuck would Jacob keep bringing people to the island, since MIB was trapped and couldn't kill him anyways.
When he was chatting with MIB on the beach about people being good/bad (when they were looking at the Black Rock heading towards the island), his point was still trying to prove MIB wrong. That was reminiscent of the discussion Jacob had with his brother when he was living with that tribe.
But at that point, that wasn't his brother anymore, just some form of evil "being" trying to escape and destroy everything. Why would you even care trying to prove this entity wrong? That would clearly never happen.
It's never outright explained, but we do know that the MIB is still the same man that we see grow up in AtS, at least partly. We can only theorize what exactly happened. Was he just given the power to be smoke? Were his evil characteristics magnified?
 
BenjaminBirdie said:
And plus Cuse and Lindelof have explicitly and repeatedly said that they'll never fully explain the ending. It's supposed to be open to individual interpretation.
good
 
big ander said:
It's never outright explained, but we do know that the MIB is still the same man that we see grow up in AtS, at least partly. We can only theorize what exactly happened. Was he just given the power to be smoke? Were his evil characteristics magnified?

Huh? This guy died. It's no different than Smokey impersonating Locke, or at least I see absolutely no hint pointing towards that.
 
Baron Aloha said:
if Charlie is in the purgatory and doesn't remember his island life then how can he be visiting Hurley in season 4 and already know that he is dead?

Hurley can see dead folks like he did with Jacob and Richard's wife. In season 4 Hurley is still alive and off the island.

Baron Aloha said:
Same goes for the other people Hurley saw like Ana Lucia. Likewise how could Libby visit Michael on the freighter? It could be argued that because time doesn't matter in the purgatory the Charlie who visits Hurley in season 4 has already been awakened but I don't think this makes sense either because after the purgatory they all 'move on' and I kind of doubt that they 'move on' back to Earth. How would that be moving on?

I'm guessing that you are assuming that in season 4 when the eight return it was to purgatory. This is not the case as I understand it.

EDIT: Oh I read that wrong when I was trying to clear things up. When Hurley talks to the dead, any time in the series, they seem to know what happened to them and a bit more. Could be that the enlightened dead provided help to the losties through Hurley when ever they "passed".

Baron Aloha said:
Also, I thought that Charlie had already remembered everything earlier in the season. After all he is the one who purposely drove Desmond's car into the water to trigger him to remember. If he knew that driving the car would cause Desmond to remember doesn't it stand to reason that he knew who Desmond was at that point? And he saw Claire while he had his vision on the plane...but by the time the finale rolled around it was like he had forgotten everything again.

What I got from this was that Charlie only had a small vision of Clair from his death experience and needed a bigger kick to get all the info. This is why he seemed so depressed, because he didn't understand what had happened to him.

Baron Aloha said:
Lastly, someone earlier in the thread said the cabin stuff in season 3 was messed up and I just wanted to say that I 100% agree. None of it added up even back then. That was probably the first obvious instance of bad writing on the show for me. I mean there were some weak things earlier in the series but the cabin was probably the first really unforgivable/glaring instance for me personally.

This is something that I find interesting too. I think that there are those who believe it was the man in black giving Ben info. I saw someone call it MiB's Long Con to get Jacob killed.
 
Raist said:
Huh? This guy died. It's no different than Smokey impersonating Locke, or at least I see absolutely no hint pointing towards that.
The hint is the conversation between Jacob and MIB. He seems to have been resurrected, because all of his actions are still driven by the deception of his "mother."
 
big ander said:
The hint is the conversation between Jacob and MIB. He seems to have been resurrected, because all of his actions are still driven by the deception of his "mother."

Smokey has to be MiB. His desire to get off the island is the same as it was back in the day. Why he IS smokey and not just an imposter is never explained, but this has to be the case for any of this to make sense
 
Another cool thing I noticed is right after Jake dies and suddenly is in flight in the Sideways/Purgatory world next to Rose, as soon as the turbulence dies down she says to Jake, "You can let go now". That carries a whole other meaning now.
 
Raist said:
Huh? This guy died. It's no different than Smokey impersonating Locke, or at least I see absolutely no hint pointing towards that.

No, the smoke monster and Jacob's brother are one in the same. In What The Dies For Jacob told the candidates that he had turned his brother into the smoke monster. Also, the enhanced version of the Pilot said outright that Jacob had turned his brother into the smoke monster.
 
I wish Amazon would lock user reviews until items are released. With the giant box set coming out in August there are already 23 reviews. 20 of them are five stars but still. I hate when people do that.
 
so was it ever explained why Sawyer told Jack to push smokey into the water and say he'll take care of the rest?

It didn't do anything!
 
Future said:
Smokey has to be MiB. His desire to get off the island is the same as it was back in the day. Why he IS smokey and not just an imposter is never explained, but this has to be the case for any of this to make sense

Yeah, that doesn't really make sense and I don't see anything explaining this. I mean, Smokey could be an evil "being" which had been trapped there a long time ago and for some reason. That wouldn't make less sense than Jacob's brother gaining magical powers after diving in that cave. Plus the egyptian temple, which surely pre-dates Jacob and MIB's mother arrival on the island, already had depictions of the smoke monster.
 
Tideas said:
so was it ever explained why Sawyer told Jack to push smokey into the water and say he'll take care of the rest?

It didn't do anything!
It gave them time to get onto the sub.
Which was rigged to blow.
 
Tideas said:
so was it ever explained why Sawyer told Jack to push smokey into the water and say he'll take care of the rest?

It didn't do anything!

I took it as Sawyer assuming (hoping?) water might have some effect on Smokey, given that he had told him that he couldn't fly across the water.

If nothing else, it would buy them some seconds.

EDIT: Oh wait, it was probably to make sure he didn't turn into smoke and massacre them.
 
Was Jacob supposed to turn himself into the smoke monster?

Since it's hinted that the mother was the smoke monster, perhaps the island's protector is supposed to go into the cave and become smokey.

however, because she loved jacob as a son she tried to protect him from that burden. Because of her folly, jacob not knowing what he was doing, gave that power to his brother who had no intention of being the island's protector (or the islands security system).
 
Raist said:
Yeah, that doesn't really make sense and I don't see anything explaining this. I mean, Smokey could be an evil "being" which had been trapped there a long time ago and for some reason. That wouldn't make less sense than Jacob's brother gaining magical powers after diving in that cave. Plus the egyptian temple, which surely pre-dates Jacob and MIB's mother arrival on the island, already had depictions of the smoke monster.
Theory is now that Mother was a monster too. She did ravage an entire village.
So the monster has always existed, just as the protector has, but in different people.
 
Sadist said:
Thinking about the finale and of course several scenes with Ben, it's funny how Hurley and he became friends. Well, I assume they became friends because he asked for his expertise and calling him an "awesome number two" But I also remember a certain scene :lol

axbdr9.gif

I was thinking of the scene from Cabin Fever, where Hurley is eating a candy bar, offers a piece to Ben, and he takes it -- and the two just sit there, eating silently. :lol
 
Aesius said:
I'd be crying too if I had to watch the finale on that shitty TV.
and backwards too...
 
Blader5489 said:
I was thinking of the scene from Cabin Fever, where Hurley is eating a candy bar, offers a piece to Ben, and he takes it -- and the two just sit there, eating silently. :lol
I actually posted that .gif a few posts above you :P
 
Raist said:
Yeah, that doesn't really make sense and I don't see anything explaining this. I mean, Smokey could be an evil "being" which had been trapped there a long time ago and for some reason. That wouldn't make less sense than Jacob's brother gaining magical powers after diving in that cave. Plus the egyptian temple, which surely pre-dates Jacob and MIB's mother arrival on the island, already had depictions of the smoke monster.

It's fairly clear that MIB was Smokey. Jacob himself even said that he turned his brother into Smokey in his chat with the Losties. They also shared identical motivations. It isn't ambiguous at all.

Nothing ever said there could only be one smoke monster. It's also very likely that the mother was one as well. There is little other explanation for how she managed to do the things she did.
 
Blader5489 said:
I was thinking of the scene from Cabin Fever, where Hurley is eating a candy bar, offers a piece to Ben, and he takes it -- and the two just sit there, eating silently. :lol

"FIRST DECREE.

ANY ONE WHO WANTS...CANDY BARS....WILL HAVE PLENTY OF CANDY BARS."
 
McHuj said:
Was Jacob supposed to turn himself into the smoke monster?

Since it's hinted that the mother was the smoke monster, perhaps the island's protector is supposed to go into the cave and become smokey.

however, because she loved jacob as a son she tried to protect him from that burden. Because of her folly, jacob not knowing what he was doing, gave that power to his brother who had no intention of being the island's protector (or the islands security system).

Someone explained it great a few pages back:

Sir Hamish said:
Not read the whole thread so apologies if this theory has cropped up before, but I think I know what the smoke monster is. I'm guessing its a manifestation of the island's power meant for protecting the island.


We've already had some strong hints that the smoke monster has been around before the MIB falls into the cave. Some of the Egyptian stuff we have seen indicate they worshiped the smoke monster in some way. Also, in Across the Sea there are several indications that the mother is in fact the smoke monster.

1. She kills a whole load of people
2. She fills up a massive hole in the ground with dirt in a short space of time.
3. She warns Jacob not to go into the light because it would be 'a fate worse than death'
4. She thanks the MIB when he kills her, implying she was suffering said 'fate worse than death'

I think this indicates pretty strongly that whoever becomes 'protector' of the island is supposed to enter the light and become the smoke monster and gain its abilities in order to better protect the island. It is essentially a weapon left behind by the whoever created the island, so its appearance and all the weird noises it makes are a result of intelligent (technologically advanced?) design rather than anything random. The ritual that Jacob goes through is only one part of the puzzle. Unfortunately his mother warns him away from going into the light, probably because she herself regrets doing so. The skeletons in the cave also indicate others have entered the light and are probably the remains of previous protectors who shed their physical bodies in order to become the smoke monster and protect the island.

However in this instance Jacob chucks the MIB down the cave instead of going down himself which results in the MIB gaining the island's 'weapon' instead of Jacob. Fortunately Jacob still has his powers over the island and the ability to set rules, so he puts some rules in place that prevent the MIB from ever being able to leave the island and unleash it's power upon the human race, which he would probably do since he has already told Jacob that he finds humans to be 'bad'. Jacob also acknowledges that the MIB may one day find a loophole in the rules and be able to leave the island, so he brings people to the island in the hope that he can change the MIB's opinion of the human race and if, one day, god forbid, the MIB does escape, he will be less inclined to decimate us. The MIB, in turn, tries to prove to Jacob that all human beings are bad, in the hope that one day Jacob will agree and stop giving a shit about humans and let the MIB leave the island to do whatever he wants.

I find it interesting that all the conflict in the show boils down to the upbringing of Jacob and the MIB. If the islands protector was a regular person with some life experience and hadn't been raised in seclusion with weird views of the rest of the species none of this conflict would have happened. Which is why I believe Hurley will make a good protector :)
 
StoOgE said:
Are they? Seemed like the girl up front was laughing.

Someone was laughing at someone else crying.:lol.


Edit: And now they're are screaming at the TV because Jack is dying :lol


(My brother did that on Sunday night the fuck)
 
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