LOST 06.17/18/18.5: "The End" (Everything Else Was Just Progress)
- Thread starter BenjaminBirdie
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McHuj said:
Yes, this seems very likely.
Someone in the smoke monster body has the power to scan people and look at their memories, thoughts, motivations, and overall mentality, which would be rather helpful for a guardian who's deciding who's worthy enough to be ferried over to an afterlife.
It's why we always thought Smokey was some sort of judge - that's the type of thing that MIB was meant to do in that body, but he didn't give a shit about his "role" because he was put into a (fairly horrific) position he didn't ask for.
TheGreatDave
Banned
I kinda laughed when Vincent first lay down next to Jack, cos it was funny just how much this show was destroying my last thread of masculinity.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
Zeliard said:
MIB FOR ISLAND JUDGE:
CAN'T SOMEONE ELSE DO IT?
(I'll be making LOST/Simpsons references for a little while I think.)
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
StoOgE said:
Seemed like a combination of shreiking disbelief at their own sadness and laughter to cover it up.
DAMN IT LOST. EVEN YOUR AUDIENCE REACTIONS ARE AMBIGUOUS.
Raist said:
It's always MIB, dude.
Every single time we saw Smokey in the show, it was MIB.
It's very likely there was ANOTHER Smokey before him, such as the Mother. Probably many, in fact (the magical light cave had skeletons hanging around, which as a previous gaffer cleverly theorized, were likely previous smoke monster guardians who had shed their bodies).
gdt5016 said:
dorkimoe said:Ill just assume it wasnt the smoke monster. Im gonna assume the producers technically only said the smoke monster showed up as Christian in the first couple seasons. Im gonna assume it was the actual "shephard"
I do feel like they botched the entire Christian = MIB thing. The first reason is "So It Begins", the final Missing Pieces episode. Christian telling Vincent to wake up his son because he was "work to do". I dunno, I mean I can look by that but it does bother me.
The second reason is what you're talking about: Christian on the freighter. It's really hard to find a logical answer for that if MIB was always Christian. You can at least try to explain how he got on the freighter by saying that it was in the bubble of the island and that's how MIB appeared on there. Of course the problem with that is that he can't use his powers to fly across water, so that hurts that idea.
The big thing for me though is that you hear the whispers before he shows up. Then we get the explanation for the whispers, which is that they are dead people who can't move on. If it's MIB then we wouldn't have heard the whispers so that had to have been the real Christian.
The whole "dead people showing up on the island" answer ended up being very convoluted thanks to MIB and Christian clashing, not to mention Walt showing up to people before and after he got off the island -- and he wasn't even dead.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
God damn, "Lying For The Island" from the S4 soundtrack is soooo good.
I still do attribute something to the Island having a sort of will.
I attribute stuff like the dreams Locke and Eko had a couple of times to The Island.
When I think of Jacob and his power, I think of him having a certain amount of control and influence over The Light. This allows him to make the rules, spy on The Candidates, etc etc etc.
But The Light, which is the heart of The Island, has it's own will too.
So maybe some stuff can be attributed that.
I attribute stuff like the dreams Locke and Eko had a couple of times to The Island.
When I think of Jacob and his power, I think of him having a certain amount of control and influence over The Light. This allows him to make the rules, spy on The Candidates, etc etc etc.
But The Light, which is the heart of The Island, has it's own will too.
So maybe some stuff can be attributed that.
Anton Sugar
Member
Raist said:
Just posted this in the last page, but good stuff:
Sir Hamish said:Not read the whole thread so apologies if this theory has cropped up before, but I think I know what the smoke monster is. I'm guessing its a manifestation of the island's power meant for protecting the island.
We've already had some strong hints that the smoke monster has been around before the MIB falls into the cave. Some of the Egyptian stuff we have seen indicate they worshiped the smoke monster in some way. Also, in Across the Sea there are several indications that the mother is in fact the smoke monster.
1. She kills a whole load of people
2. She fills up a massive hole in the ground with dirt in a short space of time.
3. She warns Jacob not to go into the light because it would be 'a fate worse than death'
4. She thanks the MIB when he kills her, implying she was suffering said 'fate worse than death'
I think this indicates pretty strongly that whoever becomes 'protector' of the island is supposed to enter the light and become the smoke monster and gain its abilities in order to better protect the island. It is essentially a weapon left behind by the whoever created the island, so its appearance and all the weird noises it makes are a result of intelligent (technologically advanced?) design rather than anything random. The ritual that Jacob goes through is only one part of the puzzle. Unfortunately his mother warns him away from going into the light, probably because she herself regrets doing so. The skeletons in the cave also indicate others have entered the light and are probably the remains of previous protectors who shed their physical bodies in order to become the smoke monster and protect the island.
However in this instance Jacob chucks the MIB down the cave instead of going down himself which results in the MIB gaining the island's 'weapon' instead of Jacob. Fortunately Jacob still has his powers over the island and the ability to set rules, so he puts some rules in place that prevent the MIB from ever being able to leave the island and unleash it's power upon the human race, which he would probably do since he has already told Jacob that he finds humans to be 'bad'. Jacob also acknowledges that the MIB may one day find a loophole in the rules and be able to leave the island, so he brings people to the island in the hope that he can change the MIB's opinion of the human race and if, one day, god forbid, the MIB does escape, he will be less inclined to decimate us. The MIB, in turn, tries to prove to Jacob that all human beings are bad, in the hope that one day Jacob will agree and stop giving a shit about humans and let the MIB leave the island to do whatever he wants.
I find it interesting that all the conflict in the show boils down to the upbringing of Jacob and the MIB. If the islands protector was a regular person with some life experience and hadn't been raised in seclusion with weird views of the rest of the species none of this conflict would have happened. Which is why I believe Hurley will make a good protector
So would this assume:
-Mother comes to/is at the island
-Mother becomes protector and loses her "humanity" by becoming smokey
-Jacob and MIB are born
-Mother wants MIB to be protector because he's special
-MIB runs away
-Mother kills MIB's people and camp
-Mother makes Jacob the protector, but just wants him to protect and not take on smokey form, so tells him to stay out of light
-Mother is killed (either because she transferred her powers or there was no rule preventing it) by MIB
-Jacob does the exact opposite of what Mother wants, thinking putting MIB into the cave will kill/destroy him
-MIB comes out as the monster, but not the protector--all of the powers of the monster but was never meant to protect, sort of a "reject" protector
That assumes an awful lot. Maybe the anointed protectors would not have turned into black smoke. But because smokey wants to leave the island and there is no indication that the mother wanted to...we can only assume that smokey still IS MIB, just smokey-fied? Smokey takes on attributes of its "human" origin?
Catalix said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FmG...&p=711DB26AA51731EA&playnext_from=PL&index=16
Girl is pretty hot, too. And the guy looks like Nathan Jr.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
thekad said:
You mean, all grown up?
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
Sad/fitting that "There's No Place Like Home" turned out to be the theme of the show.
TheGreatDave
Banned
There's No Place Like Home is so fucking ridiculously effective. You can play that over footage of people skateboarding and I'd be a mess.
In "Across the Sea" we're almost positive the Mother takes out the entire village of people and covers the well.Raist said:
Well, there are things that prove it. 1) Jacob and MIB both say he used to be a man, that he was killed by Jacob. 2) He wants to get off the island for the exact same reasons.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
TheGreatDave said:
Maybe I'll run it under the Twin Peaks finale so I can finally make it through it without dying of fright.
:lol
I know we've got many unanswered questions, but one that I'm most curious about is this:
What exactly made the MiB so evil, and why was it so necessary to keep him on the island? From his origin story, all I could tell was that he wanted to leave the island and go to where his people were from. Then his fake mom kills all his people and prevents him from leaving. So he kills her. But that was more of a revenge killing, really. It wasn't some ultimate act of premeditated evil.
What exactly made the MiB so evil, and why was it so necessary to keep him on the island? From his origin story, all I could tell was that he wanted to leave the island and go to where his people were from. Then his fake mom kills all his people and prevents him from leaving. So he kills her. But that was more of a revenge killing, really. It wasn't some ultimate act of premeditated evil.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
YES! "Under The Knife"! You rule, iPod on Random!!
Doodis said:
The Mother didn't want MIB to leave because she wanted him on the island, with her.
Jacob didn't want MIB to leave because--due to his mistake--MIB was tied to the heart of the Island. If MIB left, the results would be similar to, if not exactly the same as, what happened when Desmond pulled the cork out.
Doodis said:
It looks like he absorbed alot of the Light from the cave.
In AtS, after he smokes out of there, the cave is significantly dimmer, as it is in The End.
He held alot of The Light, and couldn't be allowed to leave the Island because of that.
I don't know whether it was a mistake or not not to spell this out more specifically, but the Cave was clearly different before and after he turned into Smokey.
PetriP-TNT
Member
There are only couple of tv series songs that always give me goosepumps: first one is the theme from Twin Peaks. Second one is Blood Theme from Dexter.
Third one is Life&Death from Lost.
Third one is Life&Death from Lost.
The Hermit
Member
Dead said:
:lol :lol
Doodis said:
In the end, it wasn't going to be due to MIB himself, but rather the "light" he was holding a part of. He leaves that island, and take your pick: timeline disappears, the earth erupts in flames, etc. What matters is that it was going to be bad news, but ultimately, it would have been Jacob's fault and not MIB's. That's why he felt the responsibility to remain as guardian. And MIB wasn't particularly wrong in wanting to leave the island, since he didn't do anything to deserve being stuck there in a non-human form.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
God damn, Giacc MADE the first 1/3rd of Season 3. The cues when Sawyer is about to get shot and the radio goes off.
JEEESUS!!!
JEEESUS!!!
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
irfan said:
Network TV fer sher. If West Wing really had ended in S4, it'd beat it.
But it didn't.
It sure didn't.
PetriP-TNT
Member
TheGreatDave said:
Oh yeah, this. The other fave along with Life & Death. Holy shit, just listening to it makes me think the times I watched the episodes... fuckdammit, LOST ruled
Discotheque
Banned
irfan said:
Nah. Probably in top 10 tv shows of all time for me though
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