LOST 06.17/18/18.5: "The End" (Everything Else Was Just Progress)
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Catalix
And on the sixth day the LORD David Bowie created man and woman in His image. And he saw that it was good. On the seventh day the LORD created videogames so that He might take the bloody day off for once.
I remember being so against the idea at first, but I quickly came around when I found out it was intentional. It's actually a neat concept.big ander said:
Katy Perry. I'm hoping she'll ease the transitionbig ander said:
Major Williams
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Definitely worse I think.Iceman said:Is this what you looked like?
I had to take a walk and say Arrested Development quotes to get me out of it.
SpeedingUptoStop
will totally Facebook friend you! *giggle* *LOL*
Time to let goVeidt said:Damn, we're all shedding off our Lost avatars. End of an era.
, for now
Catalix
And on the sixth day the LORD David Bowie created man and woman in His image. And he saw that it was good. On the seventh day the LORD created videogames so that He might take the bloody day off for once.
I see. Ever better that way.Blader5489 said:
Sad, yet liberating. It really is The EndVeidt said:Damn, we're all shedding off our Lost avatars. End of an era.
, for now
Nameless
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KevinCow said:
I disagree. Eloise Hawking had already met several of the O6 in the past(their future) so she knew full well what would happen these people boarding Airja, just as she knew exactly what Faraday's fate was by convincing him to board the freighter. The whole "recreate the events of 815" spiel was for three reasons: Get the Candidates back like Jacob wanted. 2. Preserve what happened happened, because just like her son, Jack , Hurley, Sayid & Kate had flash to the island in the 70s because they always have. 3. To help Jack take his first real "leap of faith".
The others didn't skip through time because they couldn't skip through time. They never have. This is none paradoxal time travel. I.e. Sawyer's engagement ring for Juliet hidden in Dharmaville was there before he ever came to the island, well before he and Juliet first met. But the fact that it was there means his future always put it there 27 years ago.
Nameless said:
"The O6 flashed back in time because they flashed back in time. The Others didn't flash back in time because they didn't flash back in time."
See... that doesn't really explain anything. The Losties flashed in time because of the donkey wheel, I can get that. The Losties flashed back to '07 while the other people around the Swan didn't because they were already unstuck in time, I can buy that too. But there was nothing that made the O6 flash off the plane, and nothing that kept Claire, Cindy, the Others, and everyone else on the island from flashing through time, while all of the other 815 survivors, Juliet, and the science team did.
Catalix
And on the sixth day the LORD David Bowie created man and woman in His image. And he saw that it was good. On the seventh day the LORD created videogames so that He might take the bloody day off for once.
^_^Nameless said:You didn't lose EDR, Catalix. You just lost her picture.
ಥ_ಥ
Yeah, can't say I'm a fan of the "just because" explanation concerning who did and didn't time travel. Way too, i dunno... contrived?KevinCow said:
KevinCow said:
It was explained that certain members of the O6 flashed back in time because they didn't perfectly recreate flight 815.
Now, how that has any effect on who or what travels back in freaking time is where you suspend belief.
But yes, there is an explanation as to why Jack and Co. flashed back in time
I think it was random, but Eloise knew which ones would randomly make the jump. She saw that those ones were in the group and proceeded with the plan regardless of what happened to the other people on the plane or whether all of jacob's folks made it .gdt5016 said:
She probably would have known Sayid was on his way too.
Nameless
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KevinCow said:
It's very much a " the chicken or the egg" type scenario. Ask yourself, was Ben 'evil' because Sayid shot him or did Sayid shoot him because he was evil? Both are true depending on your perspective.
According to Caesar he saw a flash of light, and once it subsided "the fat guy" and other passengers were gone. Cindy or Caesar didn't go anywhere because they never existed in the past, same for Sun. If it didn't happen it can't happen. If it did happen it has to happen.
A more tangible example would be the Freighter Doc's body washing up on shore "before" he was actually killed. Using hypothetical dates, he's killed on 6/4 and dumped in the ocean. The body drifts into the island's field at a random bearing and travels back in time 2 days and washes up on shore on 6/2. That happened. At that point in time there would be two doctors--one dead on the island and one alive on the freighter. Little does the alive version know that he will get his throat cut in two days time, in fact he already has he just hasn't experienced it yet. What happened happened. The golden rule of LOST.
*excuse iPhone slopiness.
Catalix
And on the sixth day the LORD David Bowie created man and woman in His image. And he saw that it was good. On the seventh day the LORD created videogames so that He might take the bloody day off for once.
I actually like to think it's the other way around.gdt5016 said:
The reason why those Aijira people specifically flashed back to 1977 was because that's where they were "destined" to end up... if they never left the Island in the first place.
If the O6 had never left the Island, they would've been there when the wheel was turned and time traveled along with Sawyer and the rest (ending up in 1977). So I basically see Jack, Kate, etc., getting plucked off the plane as a bit of course correction. That's a chain of events I can reconcile.
However, Claire, Richard and the Others not flashing is still really lame to me. Any explanation i've seen essentially comes down to "just because." I never liked that, and probably never will.
Catalix
And on the sixth day the LORD David Bowie created man and woman in His image. And he saw that it was good. On the seventh day the LORD created videogames so that He might take the bloody day off for once.
Eh, not really definitive enough for my tastes. Seems open to a few too many holes as well.ProudClod said:
Still a better type of explanation than anything else I've seen so far, though.
Claire and the Others stayed put in 2004(2005?) after Ben turned the donkey wheel. For some inexplicable reason they didn't "time flash" along with Jin, Sawyer, Juliet etc. Some say "it's because they weren't meant to go back in time." um... ok. That's the kind of wishy-washy contrivances I simply can't get on board with.Iceman said:
Nameless said:
Right, I understand all this. I don't think you're following my issue. The thing is, the doctor didn't just suddenly drop dead with a slit throat because that's how he was supposed to be. He didn't die because his body had already been washed up on shore, he died because Keamy slit his throat.
The doctor washing up on the beach is the picture of the Losties in the Dharma initiative, or Sawyer's ring in the barracks, or the Incident, or whatever. What I'm wondering is, what was Keamy slitting his throat? As far as I can tell, there wasn't one. The Losties suddenly flashing off the plane is akin to the doctor suddenly dropping dead with a slit throat. "They went to the past because they went to the past" doesn't work.
Eh.
Catalix
And on the sixth day the LORD David Bowie created man and woman in His image. And he saw that it was good. On the seventh day the LORD created videogames so that He might take the bloody day off for once.
^ Yup, explained it pretty well. That's exactly my hangup.
Although, I do think my theory for why the Ajira crew ended up in 1977 is viable (till I get a better reason).
Although, I do think my theory for why the Ajira crew ended up in 1977 is viable (till I get a better reason).
Naked Snake
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Seems that is everyone conveniently forgetting that Sun didn't flash back with the rest of the O6. That always bothered me and I haven't heard an explanation for it.
SpeedingUptoStop
will totally Facebook friend you! *giggle* *LOL*
Seems to me she wasn't a Candidate. She had her daughter, Jin did not.Naked Snake said:
Naked Snake said:
She wasn't the Candidate.
Kate went though, Sun didn't.
Again, I stand by the notion that it was random who and who didn't go back to 77 from Ajira. Specifically because they didn't replicate 815. Damon and Carlton said that in the preshow before The Incident, IIRC.
Naked Snake
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SpeedingUptoStop said:
But that's just chalk on a wall!
Naked Snake
Member
gdt5016 said:
Doesn't one become a candidate when they're touched by Jacob? I remember him touching both of them in the wedding.
Just playing devil's advocate 
Catalix said:
Well, here's one. Somebody earlier in the thread proposed that the donkey wheel chamber doesn't exist on the same time as everything else does. Makes sense. The chamber was there when the well wasn't when Locke turned it, but Smokey as Christian appeared. Plus, the wheel was off-axis from what Ben did thousands of years in the future.
If that's the case, then there could very well be other places on the Island that wouldn't be affected by the time travel themselves. The Others were all at the Temple, which wouldn't be a stretch to assume has something special about it. Sure, we didn't really see that. But that wasn't relevant to any of the main characters and everybody hates the way the Temple was handled anyway. Claire, on the other hand, was with the Smoke Monster and/or in Jacob's cabin. Can assume she wouldn't have traveled either because she was in a special place on the Island (the cabin) or because she was with the monster and I'm entirely okay with him just not being able to time travel.
This could be full of holes, but it's close enough so that it works and I'm no longer bugged by the fact that some people didn't time travel like I was when I first saw it brought up a few minutes ago :lol
I look at it as they had a hole to fill, not necessarily destiny. It reminds me of faraday comparing the island to a scratched record. Since whatever happened, happened, they were simply where they needed to be for that particular time. They were like the scratch in the record that was smoothed out to get things on track. This works for the Sawyer group as well as the Jack group.Catalix said:
Catalix said:
Again, they did not have to go back in time because they weren't around back then. All the holes had been filled with the people that went back and the roles they played. The loop closed.
Time travel in LOST was very much an weird thing even in their universe and seemed to be created by Swan or Jacob. I'm betting Jacob since he was able to be at the exact right spot in time to choose candidates (EDIT- In regards to travel time or distance wise, wouldn't Jacob be the only one able to finish the donkey wheel?). But he could have also figured out a way to take advantage of it. After he died or the Swan blew up, it was no longer an issue and even Desmond lost his forecasting powers although he still had the EMS powers.
Tralfamadore64
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I'm holding on to my sawyer avatar for dear life.Veidt said:Damn, we're all shedding off our Lost avatars. End of an era.
Naked Snake
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Snuggler said:
Wow it's been ages since I've watched that scene, I almost didn't remember any of the dialogue. Although I intended to watch the Pilot before the finale, I ended up only watching Part 1, because I didn't know it was a two-parter!
:lol @ Kate pretending not to know how to use a gun
fallengorn
Bitches love smiley faces
The Vilcek Foundation sent me their exhibit catalog. In case anyone wanted to see what was at the exhibit: http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.p...417439&email=4350b4ddf81fd98d0e51abfb5c3da0e8
So, I just finished rewatching Seasons 1 and 2, and in hindsight, they are highly frustrating to watch.
Season 1 works pretty well, so I'll let its issues slide, but Season 2... jeesus. For one, its a slave to its flashback mold, which means a ton of padding, and "filler." However, I get that they needed to make 24 episodes, so its somewhat understandable.
The biggest issue, however, for me is Walt and the Others. I hadn't seen S2 in about 3 years, so going back was interesting. Its INCREDIBLY clear that at the time, the writers intended Walt to have some sort of ability or powers. They hint at it A LOT. For example, one of the others straight up asks Michael if when he was separated from Walt when Walt's mom took him, he had "mysteriously appeared". Walt was clearly intended to have a different role in the show, and that whole thread was just dropped. Unfortunate.
Season 1 works pretty well, so I'll let its issues slide, but Season 2... jeesus. For one, its a slave to its flashback mold, which means a ton of padding, and "filler." However, I get that they needed to make 24 episodes, so its somewhat understandable.
The biggest issue, however, for me is Walt and the Others. I hadn't seen S2 in about 3 years, so going back was interesting. Its INCREDIBLY clear that at the time, the writers intended Walt to have some sort of ability or powers. They hint at it A LOT. For example, one of the others straight up asks Michael if when he was separated from Walt when Walt's mom took him, he had "mysteriously appeared". Walt was clearly intended to have a different role in the show, and that whole thread was just dropped. Unfortunate.
refresh my memory, he appeared to locke but really was smokey right? Yeah, they didn't drop it, but its clear that the writers retconned the smokey idea onto a different original concept. Not too big a deal tho, considering that they didn't even have an end date in S2, but still sort of frustrating.Archaix said:
Naked Snake
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GAF LOST Defense Force will swing and spin any criticism thrown at the show right back at ya :lol
Just teasing, I <3 LOST GAF, otherwise I wouldn't be coming here to check every new post
Just teasing, I <3 LOST GAF, otherwise I wouldn't be coming here to check every new post
Archaix said:
At that point I feel they were addressing the fact that he was getting older and trying to find a way to ease him back into the show (the time traveling thing was perfect for this), it seems like there were too many problems around it anyways at that point.
This is one of the biggest things for me in the show, that proves they weren't exactly sure they knew where they were going. While I was satisfied with what they did at the end, it's such an open ended thing, that you could literally put anything in between there.
What was going on with the others in the second season? Why were they stealing babies and "giving them better lives". There was clearly more to it, and all I keep hearing is that it's irrelevant. I can understand that, but if that's the case, then why the hell waste our time?
Since we never saw her again, no one knows for sure whether she was alive or dead when meeting Juliet and Ben never said he told her to speak to Juliett.peterb0y said:
I assumed she was an Island manifestation at the time, pre-Smokey, but there wasn't much point is Smokey telling Juliett about someone trying to destroy the Island.
Actually now that I think about it, Charlotte & Faraday were actually savng the Island. Hmm...
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