..Also myself, and at least everyone in this thread
http://community.us.playstation.com...ewed-but-old-game-isn-t-working/td-p/43148770
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Lost access to Playstation Plus free games permanently!! (Update: resolved)
- Thread starter m@cross
- Start date
http://community.us.playstation.com...ewed-but-old-game-isn-t-working/td-p/43148770
Manmademan
Member
This is exactly what it is, but a rental service structured so that it actually makes sense for people who play games.
I like PS+, but I'm not dumb enough to think that every single game I have on the service is going to stay there in perpetuity, 10, 15, or 20 years from now even if I never let my subscription lapse. Digital is a license to use, and the terms of that license are subject to change.
Actually it works more like Netflix than a rental. A rental you pay per title you bring out and you get a set time limit on it. Netflix you have access to the whole library as long as you are subscribed. Difference is Netflix has a huge library to choose from at start where as you have to accumulate a library on PS+. And you aren't gaurenteed access to the same movie on Netflix in the future as long as you have Netflix cause Netflix can and does pull titles from the library all the time. Where as once you "purchase" a game through PS+ you are supposed to always have access to it as long as you are a PS+ member at the time you want access. ANd you can access your library offline long as you download the title to your device (netflix you have to have internet access anytime you want to use it and are beholden to how good your connection is at the time).
Not saying it's not ridiculous this is happening, but, to be fair, you are going to hear of the people who have problems. People where it is working you aren't going to hear cause they aren't going to go out of their way to say, "hey, everything is working like it should." Except in cases like this where we have some one in Sony's CS trying to claim that it doesn't work that way and people are chiming in that yes it does and it has worked for them that way to show proof that the CS people are being idiots.
hydrophilic attack
Member
Still not resolved? This really sucks. If they do eventually resolve it, I hope you get suitable compensation for all the trouble you've gone through.
People are dumb enough to believe the official FAQ?
I don't expect in 10 years for it to be either (though I won't complain). But, I expect if things change, that Sony would make an announcement or at least change the terms (not keep having terms that say you can re pick up any PS+ games once you re subscribe even if you subscription lapses). Not claim one set of terms and then tell some one that that is a lie and what they told him is not true. There is no defense for what the CS people are trying to tell the people with the problem. And Sony should fix it.
And honestly, for a change that big, yes, I'd expect Sony to actually email everyone with PS+ or contact them somehow to let them know how PS+ works is going to change and it will no longer work that way. Otherwise I think people are in their full rights to be outraged by this.
On top of that, this is not a story of Sony changing terms as they have not and several people have pointed out it works like it should for them (I let my PS+ lapse after this guy did, had it lapsed for longer, and it still works fine for me). This is a problem of some CS people not wanting to do their jobs cause it's too complicated and they don't know how and they can't be bothered to go out of their way to find some way to make it right. Even if the problem is a bug on the guy's PS, they could at least try to ascertain that. The resolution may be that it is something that went wrong on his machine (Software glitched on his side) and they have no way of figuring out how to fix it. They could at least be honest and say that (though wouldn't a complete erase maybe fix a problem like that?).
(Though come to think of it since it's a problem on all his devices this seems more like it is something on their end that is the problem).
Kagoshima_Luke
Gold Member
Long term availability is the elephant in the room when talking about digital content. Official FAQs and the like rarely cover it, but do you really think that 20 years from now your digital PS3 content will available in any capacity?
I guess this will usher in a whole new idea of saving old harddrives with these old games, instead of holding on to physical carts or discs.
This is exactly it, and why I wanted to be sure the CS guy was clear.
Sony has represented plus as a service that, while you don't own the free games, lets you play them and maintain access to them while you have a plus subscription, even if their is a lapse.
While I am sure every EULA contains language to protect them from unseen issues, their intent is for this not to occur. If this is acceptable they need to stop representing it as such and make it clear to the consumer they will not guarantee access.
Oh, ok. I must have been living in a hole haha, never come across this before. I hope this gets resolved asap.
As some one who works retail and customer service, I honestly think it sounds like it is some problem they can't figure out how to fix and at this point it's easier just to tell you no and hope you give up and go away than try to figure out why it won't work (as some one who works retail it is easier to tell some one that there is no solution than to tell them that you don't know the solution. Not that I do this but I know that when there isn't actually a solution people take that a lot better than when I don't know the solution and have to tell them I honestly don't know).
To be fair the CS people probably aren't software developers and it might be a problem in the code that they don't have tools or know how to fix. But they should at least be trying to reach people who can better figure out the problem and fix it (especially as it sounds like this isn't the lone case of it and others have run across the problem).
It is their responsibility to find a fix for you some how. Or at the very least find some way of making it up to you if they really can't fix it. Hell, even being honest would be better, "WE don't have a fix for you and we just don't have the power to just give you those games, there's nothing we really can do" <- though they could then at least refund you your PS+ or give you credit for what your PS+ cost you if that really is the end result.
I really think this sounds the problem that Sony's customer service is either bad/lazy or Sony doesn't give them enough power to actually do good CS (they may not have the power to give you credit or refund your money though that would be really stupid of Sony not to allow them to do that in cases where it is warranted. Sony's just asking for bad PR on how horrible their CS is if that was the case. They are still asking for it if they hire people who don't know how to give true CS and realize it is better to be honest and even if you can't fix it at least attempt to make it as right as they can by the customer).
The issue in the thread is not long term availability, yet Manmademan gave the example probably as an anlalogy so that it should be normal for one to lose their games and that Sony can change the license terms at will [with no consequence] because we are talking about a rental service.
I too have my doubts for long term availability but that was not the issue at hand, so I'm assuming Manmademan finds it quite normal for Sony to remove your games while stating otherwise in the official FAQ and implies that, because it's a rental service one would be dumb to assume s/he'd keep all games.
You should be able to renew the license by booting the particular ps+ title while connected online.
Not for resubbing, but after a deactivation and a re-activation, one would have to start a download (and optionally cancel it) for that PS3 to activate the content. At least, I had to do such a thing a couple of times. On PS4, there's renew licenses option so it wouldn't be necessary. So I'm assuming you won't have to download everything all over again.
When trying to boot the game, it tells me I don't have the license/or the content is expired. I could get exact wording if you like.
I cannot re-download again. The download history/Transaction history has been cleared of all Instant Game Collection content.
At minimum an extension of the PS+ to cover the time that access was withdrawn from those games.
I'd call support and ask to speak to someone more senior. If they refuse, ask for their address and say you will be taking legal advice.
Then just write to them initially, stating the situation and quoting the TOS showing what should happen. Tell them they have 7 days to respond before you take further steps.
bamelin/neuromancer might sort it out before then but worth trying multiple routes. Sometimes phone calls just stop working and you need something in writing.
Angelcurio
Member
And where is the gaming press when you need them? They are fairly fast to copy and paste publishers press releases on their websites, instead of dealing with actual issues that affect gamers.
OP, have you tried contacting Adam Boyes? He could at least make the issue visible to someone high enough in CS to at least try and solve your issue.
OP, have you tried contacting Adam Boyes? He could at least make the issue visible to someone high enough in CS to at least try and solve your issue.
Oh I believe you, I'm just saying how it's worked for me in the past, which included a lapse at one point. This was on ps3, maybe ps4 handles it differently?
So - I'm revisiting the CS challenge to get my stuff re-enabled.
Live Chat transcript:
Christian Z.: Basically, if your PS+ account expires, once you renew the subscription you will have access to the same free games you have downloaded before.
Coringar: That's originally what I expected to have happen, yes.
Coringar: But that is not what I'm experiencing, and a number of people also are unable to access their "old" IGC content from their last PS+ subscription period.
Christian Z.: Yes, I'm able to confirm all your free games.
Christian Z.: We have the record in our system.
Christian Z.: I encourage you to give us a call, so we can assist you further.
I'm now on the phone...
===
Wow, so a service rep named Stephanie who repeatedly told me that it was not possible and put me on hold a few times, said they pushed through a restore request for my content, but that it would take 3 - 5 days to process.
When asked what changed from the previous support call and from the beginning of our phone conversation, she hung up on me. So, lets see what happens in 3 - 5 days.
Live Chat transcript:
Christian Z.: Basically, if your PS+ account expires, once you renew the subscription you will have access to the same free games you have downloaded before.
Coringar: That's originally what I expected to have happen, yes.
Coringar: But that is not what I'm experiencing, and a number of people also are unable to access their "old" IGC content from their last PS+ subscription period.
Christian Z.: Yes, I'm able to confirm all your free games.
Christian Z.: We have the record in our system.
Christian Z.: I encourage you to give us a call, so we can assist you further.
I'm now on the phone...
===
Wow, so a service rep named Stephanie who repeatedly told me that it was not possible and put me on hold a few times, said they pushed through a restore request for my content, but that it would take 3 - 5 days to process.
When asked what changed from the previous support call and from the beginning of our phone conversation, she hung up on me. So, lets see what happens in 3 - 5 days.
Manmademan
Member
I'm a realist. No matter what the official FAQ says, there is almost no chance at all that Sony is going to keep every single game ever released for the service available in perpetuity. Period. Corporations have a habit of deciding a phrase like "lifetime" means 1 to 5 years or sometimes even less, and I'm pretty sure the FAQ doesn't specify "lifetime."
Eventually the service will be phased out or sunset and all your content is going to go with it. it might not be five years, it might not be ten, but it will happen, and digital content is notorious for this.
as for changing the terms of their license, have we forgotten "other OS" already? "we're removing this feature from your PS3. If you ever want to connect to the network again, it will be deleted from your machine." I'm pretty sure none of the official material for the PS3 indicated that particular feature could be wiped out with no notice and no alternative for users, but that's the way it is.
If you're concerned about unrestricted use of your software, it's physical or nothing.
Sounds exactly how my situation started...
Next support will tell you tough crap, you will say no way, they will give you a senior support person who will agree with you and tell you they will call you back...
Than you will spend a month calling them back for updates, having to re-explain everything each time and force your way up the ladder, get promises of fixes and finally end up being told your case was closed and they have no update, and then have a senior support person tell you sorry you are wrong as was everyone else and they won;t help you.....
Well, this is my second run at them, so we'll see. Maybe in a week I'll be able to start over Outlast.
If in a week you have this fixed and after what will be about 60 days at that point I do not.. I am getting in the tub with my PS4......
Anything anyone does to try to help with this is appreciated, good to know my aggravation has some compassion.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
Has to be a glitch. I was a non Plus member for a while before I came back. Everything was intact.
ElectricKaibutsu
Member
Glitches happen, but it's been 2 months and it's still not fixed. Sony needs to step up their support.
That's nice except for (now pay attention to the bolded part cause this isn't the first time we've said this to you) this isn't the issue we are discussing in this thread. You are going off on a tangent that really isn't related to the problem at hand.
We're not talking about Sony suddenly changing the terms of the contract which, yes can and eventually will happen one day (I hope later than sooner). Hell, if nothing else, Sony could go out of business and that will stop people from having access to their game (unless before Sony does they get nice and just release a patch to let PS+ games not have an expiration date anymore which since they don't state they would do that I really don't see that happening. Even Steam claims it will happen in that case and I'd still not be surprised if it didn't). No one is claiming PS+ will work this way forever. No one.. so there's no reason to even be trying to bring this up.
What we are talking about Sony claiming one thing about the service and CS people trying to claim that isn't how it works despite sony's description in faqs and in other places states otherwise and the fact that several people can attest to that that is how it is working. We're talking about the fact that this service has glitched for some people and isn't operating like how it should and is stated to operate. And how CS is refusing to do anything about it.
If you sign up for a service that says it will offer you access to a movie and you cannot get that movie, they have not changed terms and everywhere it is advertised it claims to have that movie, and CS tells you you can't get access to that movie and that your sub doesn't get you that movie, you don't feel like you have been lied to?
Just cause it's digital doesn't mean they can just lie about something and that makes it ok. They are claiming and are still claiming on descriptions of PS+ that is how it works. And honestly, that would be such a major change I don't think it's wrong for people to expect Sony to actually make a good effort to reach out and tell people terms are changing before they change the terms (emailing them or even just some warning notes on their Playstations or some way of reaching out to them that is likely to reach them).
I would be monumentally pissed if this happened. Definitely unintentional, but I would just sell my hardware, cry, and never trust PSN Plus again. Going through customer services like that remind me of past examples where I ended up getting a refund for unaccounted for charges to my internet bill.
For as long as Vita, PS3 and PS4 are supported by PSN, all games that were added to the games' list should be available. That is how it is advertise, and comments in this thread saying "it's cool, what did you expect" are missing the purpose of the deal entirely.
I have PSN Plus running despite lending my Vita way with no other consoles. Once I finish with school I expect a ton of Vita games and possibly PS4 games I wouldn't have tried otherwise to be there waiting for me.
That is my £200 investment in the service...
For as long as Vita, PS3 and PS4 are supported by PSN, all games that were added to the games' list should be available. That is how it is advertise, and comments in this thread saying "it's cool, what did you expect" are missing the purpose of the deal entirely.
I have PSN Plus running despite lending my Vita way with no other consoles. Once I finish with school I expect a ton of Vita games and possibly PS4 games I wouldn't have tried otherwise to be there waiting for me.
That is my £200 investment in the service...
Neuromancer
Member
Hey m@cross, I'm a Playstation MVP and I can at least bring this to the attention of people that might be able to help. If you're comfortable with it, PM me your PSNID and the email address associated with it and I'll see what I can do.
I already contacted Paul/Tempest. He said he would pass it onto support. He wasn't aware of the issue.
HiddenForbiddenHolyGround
Member
Wow this thread is scary. I have something like 100 games on my download list for Plus right now and they all seem to work. I've gone back to Plus after lapses ranging from a few weeks to most of a year and never had this issue but I guess now I'll never let it lapse again. :I
DeejayKnight
Member
I'm a PlayStation MVP as well, and would like to help if at all possible. I'll have to hunt for the relevant URLS for the forums, but I'll do what I can.
Hope this gets resolved ASAP.
Hope this gets resolved ASAP.
Yay!!!!
Too bad it took that long to figure out a fix but at least now they are aware of it and know at least some work around to the problem.
BurnOutBrighter
Banned
Good to hear
Also good to know they're working on a way to stop this happening again. Must have been some technical detail they overlooked when it comes to Plus subscriptions being enabled.
Neuromancer
Member
Glad to hear it!
Glad to hear it, and it's should be a relief to every plus owner. In the PS forums, we had one guy who lost content over a half a day of lapse. I don't want to live with that fear.
It seems like a curious PSN bug, glad that the extension fixes the glitch, my guess is that Sony's extension routine re-assesses download list from beginning instead of just extending the current list (which would not help fix the problem it were the case.)
It seems like a curious PSN bug, glad that the extension fixes the glitch, my guess is that Sony's extension routine re-assesses download list from beginning instead of just extending the current list (which would not help fix the problem it were the case.)
Love your avatar
Being someone getting PS Plus on Monday, it is nice to hear things were solved.
blackMamba1187
Member
Awesome, dude. Glad to hear it.
So I need to add more Plus time....?
BumblebeeCody
Member
hydrophilic attack
Member
Glad it was solved.
It's a pity you actually had to get in touch with people here to get it solved, rather than the official channels doing their job to help you solve your problem, but at least it ended well.
It's a pity you actually had to get in touch with people here to get it solved, rather than the official channels doing their job to help you solve your problem, but at least it ended well.
That first sentence is right on the mark. The rest is wishful thinking, which won't happen. If shit actually hits the fan, you have to expect to lose all of your digital content (especially including PSN+), because they simply don't owe you anything.
https://www.playstation.com/en-us/legal/termsserviceagreemt
For Valve I could see them releasing a patch for their own games. But patching all games on Steam? I have to doubt that they made contracts with everyone, that would allow them to do this. They would have to literally allow piracy (migrating games from one system to another without any access control at all).