Support NeoGAF

[EliCash]

Season 6 gave us Ab Aeterno, and should therefore be forever loved.

 

[PhoncipleBone]

So since the "criticism" thread is just like this one, why not combine the two?

 

[dave is ok]

People will do alot, just for love. Not that you would ever know that.

LOL!

I think this thread also jumped the shark, with that post.

 

[Erigu]

Why on earth would anyone continue to return to a thread discussing something they don't like?

I'm providing perspective as a free service. :lol
Seriously, considering the (absolutely baffling and unwarranted) praise the Lindelof/Cuse duo of doom gets for the show, it just feels wrong not to post counter-points, every now and then... Successful hacks should be criticized.

I have literally never even entered a thread discussing a film, TV show or game I dislike or hate. Then again if I dislike a TV show so much I don't watch it for 6 seasons.

I had a lot of fun, actually. It was a spectacular failure.

And I can even understand criticism. I can understand coming in here and venting why you dislike Season 6 or the finale or the show as a whole. Do that and discuss it for a bit. Once. Not every bloody week for months on end. At this point, they're just repeating themselves

I think you underestimate the number of points and examples I could bring up... ^^

People will do alot, just for love. Not that you would ever know that.

:lol

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

I'm providing perspective as a free service. :lol
Seriously, considering the (absolutely baffling and unwarranted) praise the Lindelof/Cuse duo of doom gets for the show, it just feels wrong not to post counter-points, every now and then... Successful hacks should be criticized.


I had a lot of fun, actually. It was a spectacular failure.


I think you underestimate the number of points and examples I could bring up... ^^



:lol

erigu, people explain things to you adn you don't accept them. that's not balanced because when you first came in, you were asking question after question. we gave you answers and you chose your path of resisting those answers.

 

[Erigu]

erigu, people explain things to you adn you don't accept them.

Are you referring to our last conversation and the nonsensical "answer" you gave me? :lol

when you first came in, you were asking question after question. we gave you answers and you chose your path of resisting those answers.

Because they tend to be BS answers that don't make any sense?

 

[Tigel]

Season 6 gave us Ab Aeterno, and should therefore be forever loved.

It also gave us the best score of the entire series, and should therefore be forever loved.

 

[Drealmcc0y]

LOL!

I think this thread also jumped the shark, with that post.

Are you serious?

People will do a hell of a lot for love.

 

[Erigu]

People will do a hell of a lot for love.

Like putting their loved one back in shackles?

 

[Naked Snake]

Are you serious?

People will do a hell of a lot for love.

Jack was trying to selfishly erase his love.

 

[Drealmcc0y]

I think im ready to move on.

Its been probably the most interesting place to discuss lost so thanks for that.

Im sure most of you will miss me. Deep down.

See you in another life my fellow losties.

 

[Naked Snake]

I think im ready to move on.

Its been probably the most interesting place to discuss lost so thanks for that.

Im sure most of you will miss me. Deep down.

See you in another life my fellow losties.

You'll be back in no time :lol

 

[ThLunarian]

Hi guys. I just wanted to share some of my favorite moments in Lost.

-Jack and Sawyer discuss morality and ethics in thewreckrd cabin of the plane. Lays the groundwork of their relationship throughout the series.

- Locke's wheelchair reveal in "Walkabout". Everyone seems to get hooked by this one.

-Kate reads Sawyer's letter outloud, tries to stop halfway through, and Sawyer makes her finish. Chilling scene.

-Hurley makes a golf course

-Shannon sunbathes

-"Dude, Ethan wasn't on the plane!"

-Jack resuscitates Charlie against all odds, after Kate - and the audience - had already given up. This is where I knew that Jack was a boss.

-Jack, Sawyer, Locke, and Sayid chase Ethan through the jungle... and it cuts to commercial. Edge of your seat during the entire break.


-Locke's kidney gets stolen, and he confronts his father... Or tries to. Had me close to tears.

-Jack tells Shannon that Boone is dead, watches her grieve from a distance, then marches off toward the jungle. Kate: "Where are you going?" Jack: "To find John Locke." LOST. Fantastic cliffhanger.

-Hurley goes off on Rousseau. Awesome, funny, AND a great character moment, all in one.

I'll get to the other seasons later.

 

[WillyFive]

You'll be back in no time :lol

Yeah. You don't quit Lost. It grows on you.

 

[Catalix]

@ThLunarian. Good shit.


To be honest, I still find the thread entertaining to some extent (harsh criticisms of the show and all), but lately it seems folks are getting genuinely upset :/

The constant negativity leveled against the show doesn't really bother me all that much. I've kinda just accepted the severe fan backlash with open arms. Nerd rage is always gonna be a huge part of this show's legacy, after all. Often times, I find the criticisms to be surprisingly legit too. But it doesn't dampen my extreme love for the show one bit, or the many discussions surrounding it either.

Before the last page, the thread had a good thing going anyway. ivysaur's impressions were fun. But all of a sudden, it turned into an unnecessary focus on other people's negative posting habits. Best to just ignore that shit or roll with it imo. For what it's worth, I still enjoy the simple pleasure of coming in here and shootin' the shit with all the vets and newcomers on a regular basis. Doesn't that count for anything anymore?

 

[oatmeal]

Where's ivy anyways?

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

Are you referring to our last conversation and the nonsensical "answer" you gave me? :lol


Because they tend to be BS answers that don't make any sense?

and you remember way too much shit bro, you missed the point of the entire show which to learn to let go. it's like your the smoke monster of the thread, but we all know what happened in the end. if you feel like my, or anyone's answers are nonsense then I can't help you. they were made crytal clear to you.

 

[Erigu]

and you remember way too much shit bro, you missed the point of the entire show which to learn to let go.

Letting go = switching your brain off?

if you feel like my, or anyone's answers are nonsense then I can't help you. they were made crytal clear to you.

Not quite, no:

Me: Jacob is the one who told Widmore to bring Desmond. It's his plan. So why didn't he tell Jack and the others, around that campfire, when they were wondering how they could kill the MiB?
You: Jack and the others didn't have the means to keep Desmond safe for as long as Desmond was needed. we didn't know yet the Mib wanted to blow up the whole island, jacob couldn't take that.

Whah? And I'm not even sure the last part is supposed to be a complete sentence. Ironic, considering.

 

[ivysaur12]

Up until these last few episodes, season 5 has been a complete trainwreck. It's so hard to keep up with all of the time movements. The fact that the show now needs to tell me *when* everything is happening shows how convoluted everything has gotten. Instead of being a character driven drama with some great mythological elements, the mythology has completely overtaken the elements that made the show great in the first place.

That being said, I enjoyed 316 (to an extent) and The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham. I just started LaFleur, I like it a lot so far.

EDIT: I'm assuming there's a reason that Sun didn't get taken back? Is it revealed sometime soon? (I'm on Namaste)

 

[Moz La Punk]

Up until these last few episodes, season 5 has been a complete trainwreck. It's so hard to keep up with all of the time movements. The fact that the show now needs to tell me *when* everything is happening shows how convoluted everything has gotten. Instead of being a character driven drama with some great mythological elements, the mythology has completely overtaken the elements that made the show great in the first place.

That being said, I enjoyed 316 (to an extent) and The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham. I just started LaFleur, I like it a lot so far.

EDIT: I'm assuming there's a reason that Sun didn't get taken back? Is it revealed sometime soon? (I'm on Namaste)

the season starts to get much better at the point where you are now. enjoy.

 

[Yaweee]

Up until these last few episodes, season 5 has been a complete trainwreck. It's so hard to keep up with all of the time movements. The fact that the show now needs to tell me *when* everything is happening shows how convoluted everything has gotten. Instead of being a character driven drama with some great mythological elements, the mythology has completely overtaken the elements that made the show great in the first place.

That being said, I enjoyed 316 (to an extent) and The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham. I just started LaFleur, I like it a lot so far.

EDIT: I'm assuming there's a reason that Sun didn't get taken back? Is it revealed sometime soon? (I'm on Namaste)

Yup. The first 5 episodes of S5 are weak, but then you hit a really nice stretch of episodes. 316, Life and Death, LaFleur, and Dead is Dead is coming up.

 

[Erigu]

I'm assuming there's a reason that Sun didn't get taken back?

Nope.
Well, no in-story reason, that is: it's quite obvious why the writers did that.

 

[Captain_Spanky]

Nope.
Well, no in-story reason, that is: it's quite obvious why the writers did that.

Yes there is, it's because they couldn't directly replicate the original circumstances.

 

[Yaweee]

Yes there is, it's because they couldn't directly replicate the original circumstances.

That is Mrs. Plothole's explanation, but there's no reason or way for her to be certain.

The 'real' reason as far as I'm concerned with is (S6) spoiler:

Spoiler

Only the candidates were brought back to the 70s. Jin was the Kwon candidate, not Sun.

 

[Erigu]

Yes there is, it's because they couldn't directly replicate the original circumstances.

What, that thing about having to replicate the original circumstances of the crash?
Even ignoring the fact that was stupid BS in the first place ("never mind the fact it would be impossible to completely recreate the exact same circumstances: we need your father's shoes!".. and then, Widmore and Desmond just show up in a sub anyway), that doesn't explain why some characters found themselves transported in 1977 and others didn't.
I'm afraid multiplying two nonsensical ideas doesn't make a coherent one.

The 'real' reason as far as I'm concerned with is (S6) spoiler:

Spoiler

Only the candidates were brought back to the 70s. Jin was the Kwon candidate, not Sun.

Spoiler

What about Kate?

 

[EliCash]

Erigu, serious questions and I apologise if they have been addressed before: did you like Lost at any point? When did you first start watching it? And do you like anything about the show, at all?

Just curious.

 

[Yaweee]

Spoiler

What about Kate?

Spoiler

she was a candidate. We just have no idea exactly when Jacob crossed her off, or any idea if former candidates were also sent back in time, not current ones.

 

[StuBurns]

He says she got taken off because of Aaron, presumably it was when she left the island.

 

[hateradio]

So since the "criticism" thread is just like this one, why not combine the two?

It's always been like this. It just needs to realize so that it can go back to the island.

 

[OnPoint]

That is Mrs. Plothole's explanation, but there's no reason or way for her to be certain.

The 'real' reason as far as I'm concerned with is (S6) spoiler:

Spoiler

Only the candidates were brought back to the 70s. Jin was the Kwon candidate, not Sun.

And now that makes sense. Awesome

 

[Erigu]

did you like Lost at any point? When did you first start watching it? And do you like anything about the show, at all?

I started watching the show back when it began, because I liked the premise.
I had serious doubts the writers knew what they were doing back in the first season already ("did you just add cursed numbers to your ever-growing list of mysteries? am I really supposed to believe you have a satisfying explanation in store for that one?"), but considering how many TV shows get canceled very early on, I was willing to give them a pass and wait for the second season to see them bring their A game... 'Turned out that despite their claims to the contrary, the writers weren't capable of and/or interested in writing a decent plot. So I stayed for the comedy.

Spoiler

she was a candidate. We just have no idea exactly when Jacob crossed her off

Spoiler

Considering the reason he gave for crossing her off, one would imagine that was before she left Aaron to get his real mother back...

Spoiler

or any idea if former candidates were also sent back in time, not current ones.

Spoiler

Do you really want to turn "former candidates" into its own, third category, governed by its own (seemingly pointless) rules, just to explain that one away?

And now that makes sense.

Nope, sorry.

 

[Naked Snake]

Spoiler

Considering the reason he gave for crossing her off, one would imagine that was before she left Aaron to get his real mother back...

Spoiler

Do you really want to turn "former candidates" into its own, third category, governed by its own (seemingly pointless) rules, just to explain that one away?

Nope, sorry.

Spoiler

Jacob crossing her name doesn't technically cancel her candidacy (he told her she could still have his job if she wanted it. It's just chalk on a wall), I wouldn't think the act of crossing her name is going to affect magical island properties like candidacy and time travel. The names on the wall are personal thing for Jacob, it's not a dashboard.

 

[Erigu]

Spoiler

Jacob crossing her name doesn't technically cancel her candidacy (he told her she could still have his job if she wanted it. It's just chalk on a wall), I wouldn't think the act of crossing her name is going to affect magical island properties like candidacy and time travel. The names on the wall are personal thing for Jacob, it's not a dashboard.

Spoiler

Not much of a "personal thing", considering Kate wasn't included in the lists Jacob was giving around... Widmore and Ilana (and perhaps Dôgen, with that hilariously gratuitous ankh?) weren't told to look after Kate... Widmore sure considered her to be entirely disposable.

But if you really think there's a rule there, what's its purpose? Why did candidates and former candidates get sent back in 1977 upon approaching the island?

I'm thinking this is all as arbitrary as the first time leaps in the beginning of season 5... How would you explain those? Why did some characters jump through time and others didn't, back then?

 

[OnPoint]

Nope, sorry.

Maybe I missed it, but I was referring to Sun, not Kate. Oh well. My apologies. I guess I'll just go back to mildly enjoying this thread from the shadows.

 

[j-wood]

Letting go = switching your brain off?


Not quite, no:

Me: Jacob is the one who told Widmore to bring Desmond. It's his plan. So why didn't he tell Jack and the others, around that campfire, when they were wondering how they could kill the MiB?
You: Jack and the others didn't have the means to keep Desmond safe for as long as Desmond was needed. we didn't know yet the Mib wanted to blow up the whole island, jacob couldn't take that.

Whah? And I'm not even sure the last part is supposed to be a complete sentence. Ironic, considering.

Actually, this is a pretty easy question, and I can't answer it with a reasonable answer.

One of the central motivations of LOST, is Jacob proving to the MiB that people can be good, and can make good choices. Jacob didn't tell Jack and the others to use Desmond to save the island, because they needed to figure that out themselves.

Jacob always took the "hands-off" approach to people as explained in Ab Antero. Telling Jack, "Hey I brought Desmond here to save the island, go take him to the cave and you'll save the island and you'll be free" would go directly against this principle.

 

[Erigu]

One of the central motivations of LOST, is Jacob proving to the MiB that people can be good, and can make good choices. Jacob didn't tell Jack and the others to use Desmond to save the island, because they needed to figure that out themselves.

I'm not sure how "Jack having Desmond unplug the island long enough to kill the MiB" could be considered evidence that "people can be good"...
And wasn't the fate of the world at stake?

Jacob always took the "hands-off" approach to people as explained in Ab Antero. Telling Jack, "Hey I brought Desmond here to save the island, go take him to the cave and you'll save the island and you'll be free" would go directly against this principle.

Well, he told Widmore that, apparently, so, y'know...

 

[j-wood]

I'm not sure how "Jack having Desmond unplug the island long enough to kill the MiB" could be considered evidence that "people can be good"...
And wasn't the fate of the world at stake?


Well, he told Widmore that, apparently, so, y'know...

1. It's considered evidence because Jack could have said, "I don't know what to do, I don't care what happens to this island, even if it messes alot of stuff up."

That's a selfish choice and a bad one. Jack deciding that he has to figure out a way to save the island is a good choice, proving people can make good decisions.

2. He did tell Widmore, but Widmore doesn't matter. Widmore wasn't one of the people that Jacob brought to the island on Oceanic 815 to take part in his "game"

 

[Erigu]

1. It's considered evidence because Jack could have said, "I don't know what to do, I don't care what happens to this island, even if it messes alot of stuff up."

That's a selfish choice and a bad one. Jack deciding that he has to figure out a way to save the island is a good choice, proving people can make good decisions.

So it's plugging the island back that's evidence people can be good? Isn't the MiB a bit too dead to care, at that point? And would he really be moved by one guy sacrificing himself for others considering that happened many times already?
Besides, wouldn't leaving the island unplugged be bad news for everybody anyway?

2. He did tell Widmore, but Widmore doesn't matter. Widmore wasn't one of the people that Jacob brought to the island on Oceanic 815 to take part in his "game"

Like said above, what's the point of that game if the MiB dies before Jack gets to be heroic?
Plus, satisfaction of making one's point > saving the world? Really?

 

[j-wood]

So it's plugging the island back that's evidence people can be good? Isn't the MiB a bit too dead to care, at that point? And would he really be moved by one guy sacrificing himself for others considering that happened many times already?
Besides, wouldn't leaving the island unplugged be bad news for everybody anyway?


Like said above, what's the point of that game if the MiB dies before Jack gets to be heroic?
Plus, satisfaction of making one's point > saving the world? Really?

Now you're posts aren't making sense. Desmond was brought to remove the cork so that MiB could be killed. Putting the cork back happened so that obviously Jack and the others wouldn't die when the island blew up.

Jacob had Widmore bring Desmond to the island. Whether Jacob told Widmore to save the island or not, we'll never know.

But when you take into account how lax Jacob was when the MiB showed his "loophole", I at least got the feeling that Jacob had an idea of how the events outside of the decisions of the oceanic six were going to play out (ie what happened to widmore)

 

[Erigu]

Now you're posts aren't making sense.

I dunno, I'm pretty sure they are? :lol

Jacob had Widmore bring Desmond to the island. Whether Jacob told Widmore to save the island or not, we'll never know.

Well, he did tell the candidates to protect the island... 'Not sure why he wouldn't do the same with Widmore...

But I don't see what your point is, really...
What was Jacob trying to do, exactly, according to you?

 

[gdt]

Looking back, the first bunch of S5 are pretty weak. Those episodes (until 316 and on, which pretty much rock) don't have much going on thematically or character wise, but instead serve to get everyone where they need to be (for the most part, of course). Not much there to hang my hat on, in the long run, anyway. I love the rest of the season though.

Finally started my S6 rewatch today, but only got to see LAX Pt1. Totally teared up when Juliet was getting dug up again :lol .

Something that just occured to me, I really would've loved for them to expand on Sawyer's hatred of Jack in the last season. They've always had a great dynamic, and it just seemed like Sawyer let Jack off the hook a little easily.

 

[Naked Snake]

Threads merged!

Edit: Or not! I'm confused.

 

[ivysaur12]

Finally at the end of season 5 (The Incident). What a roller coaster of quality throughout the season.

Is that Lucifer from Supernatural?

EDIT: Oh, he's Jacob?!

 

[PhoncipleBone]

Looking back, the first bunch of S5 are pretty weak. Those episodes (until 316 and on, which pretty much rock) don't have much going on thematically or character wise, but instead serve to get everyone where they need to be (for the most part, of course). Not much there to hang my hat on, in the long run, anyway. I love the rest of the season though.

Finally started my S6 rewatch today, but only got to see LAX Pt1. Totally teared up when Juliet was getting dug up again :lol .

Something that just occured to me, I really would've loved for them to expand on Sawyer's hatred of Jack in the last season. They've always had a great dynamic, and it just seemed like Sawyer let Jack off the hook a little easily.

Big beef I had with season 5 was what they did to Sun. They set her up to be completely ruthless and badass when she is off island (taking over daddy's company, conspiring with Widmore) just to have her go to "I MUST FIND MY HUSBAND" and ruin her. Grr.

Is that Lucifer from Supernatural?

Yup. And you didn't recognize the Man in Black that Jacob was talking to on the beach?

Spoiler

War from season 5 of Supernatural

 

[Aristion]

Finally at the end of season 5 (The Incident). What a roller coaster of quality throughout the season.

Is that Lucifer from Supernatural?

EDIT: Oh, he's Jacob?!

:lol

Tell us what your reaction was after you finish the finale. :lol :lol

 

[ivysaur12]

Big beef I had with season 5 was what they did to Sun. They set her up to be completely ruthless and badass when she is off island (taking over daddy's company, conspiring with Widmore) just to have her go to "I MUST FIND MY HUSBAND" and ruin her. Grr.


Yup. And you didn't recognize the Man in Black that Jacob was talking to on the beach?

Spoiler

War from season 5 of Supernatural

I agree with you about Sun. She was great... and then got less great.

Who is the Man in Black? You're right, that was War though.

EDIT: This dude reminds me of Lucifer a lot, a long plan and setting things in motion a long time ago.

 

[ivysaur12]

God, I really hope this bomb goes off. I really want to see what happens if it does.

 

[big ander]

God, I really hope this bomb goes off. I really want to see what happens if it does.

Or did the bomb always go off? Or did it never go off? Or did it not go off and now it will? Or is Jacob a monkey in a suit?

 

[ivysaur12]

JULIET NO

WHO THE FUCK IS LOCKE

WHAT ARE THESE RULES

WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON

WHAT THE FUCK WAS THAT ENDING IF I HAD TO WAIT I YEAR FOR THAT I WOULD HAVE AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Spoiler

That was good.

 

[PhoncipleBone]

WHAT ARE THESE RULES

Spoiler

You never really find out, except for "just because." Really.