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Erigu said:
Well, I dunno, man: from what we've seen on the show, the guy did lose his powers and was running to "his" sailboat in order to escape... You think he would have gotten better, given time?

Well, what was the order. Did he want to blow up the island before the cork was pulled? I honestly don't remember, but isn't that what removed his powers? Pulling the cork?

I mostly only remember Hurley and Miles scenes.
 
I'm kind of with Erigu on this. By the end, the show didn't make much sense. Its obvious that the writers came up with things on the fly. The show is the ultimate bait and switch. Which is unfortunate 'coz I think the first season of Lost is one of the best seasons of any TV show ever.

I really wish I could forget all of season 6. I'd rather have the show end on a cliffhanger at the end of season 5 than go through that bullshit again.
 
BenjaminBirdie said:
Well, what was the order. Did he want to blow up the island before the cork was pulled? I honestly don't remember, but isn't that what removed his powers? Pulling the cork?
Pulling the cork apparently triggered the island's destruction (cue the Man in Black celebrating his victory and gloating that Jack was wrong) and, as it turned out, also rendered the Man in Black powerless (but let him live in his Locke-clone body instead of killing him right away, which is actually pretty lucky for him, if you think about it).
 
tycoonheart said:
I'm kind of with Erigu on this. By the end, the show didn't make much sense. Its obvious that the writers came up with things on the fly. The show is the ultimate bait and switch. Which is unfortunate 'coz I think the first season of Lost is one of the best seasons of any TV show ever.

I really wish I could forget all of season 6. I'd rather have the show end on a cliffhanger at the end of season 5 than go through that bullshit again.

I think this is my core disagreement with Erigu and most people in general when it comes to Lost. I think anyone expecting 6 seasons of consistency was just asking to live a life of spite and anger.

Are there holes inconsistencies? Gigantic ones (the smoke alarm). Did they come about because the creators didn't give a shit about their audience? Quite the opposite I believe. I think episode to episode, season to season, they wanted to put cool shit on television. All that cool shit didn't add up perfectly at the end, but it was still cool shit.
 
It was only cool shit if there was a reason or purpose for that cool shit, other than to just be cool. Otherwise, it's just cool shit, without the cool.
 
TheExodu5 said:
It was only cool shit if there was a reason or purpose for that cool shit, other than to just be cool. Otherwise, it's just cool shit, without the cool.

If I thought it was cool when I watched it, that meant it was cool. YMMV.
 
BenjaminBirdie said:
If I thought it was cool when I watched it, that meant it was cool. YMMV.

I think the problem here is that some of us were really into the show. I mean, I was REALLY into it. I rewatched the series 3 times (1-4, 1-5, 1-5). I probably spent as much time speculating and discussing the series as I did watching it. I was very invested in this show. The mystery was incredibly interesting to me, and I was delighted to have the opportunity to try to piece it all together. I bought the DVDs, participated in the ARGs, did the Lost University...it was a blast.

And then came season 6. It just gave me the finger and said "here's a mythology that makes no sense, and which has no bearing or relation to all the elements we introduced previously...oh, also, it's all about the characters man! the characters!".

Maybe the show isn't as bad as I'd like to make it out to be, but I really hate what the last season did to, what was essentially my favorite show of all time.

I'm just not going to let myself ever get so invested in a show again. It's just not worth it. I thought LOST was something truly different...something with a complex and original mythology, and a show that wasn't so concerned with pleasing the fans as much as it was with telling a story. I thought it was that show. I was wrong.
 
Erigu, perhaps you can refresh my memory...

Did MIB ever say "I am going to destroy EARTH"?

Or was it only characters like Eloise, Widmore, etc. that were making such claims?

All that I remember hearing from MIB was that he 'wanted to go home'.
 
oatmeal said:
Erigu, perhaps you can refresh my memory...

Did MIB ever say "I am going to destroy EARTH"?

Or was it only characters like Eloise, Widmore, etc. that were making such claims?

All that I remember hearing from MIB was that he 'wanted to go home'.

We were lead to believe throughout season 6 that MiB was evil and that letting the evil leave the island would be devastating to all of earth. Right? Does it matter who exactly said it? That feeling was prevalent in a lot of characters in season 6, most of whom were supposedly in the know.
 
tycoonheart said:
We were lead to believe throughout season 6 that MiB was evil and that letting the evil leave the island would be devastating to all of earth. Right? Does it matter who exactly said it? That feeling was prevalent in a lot of characters in season 6, most of whom were supposedly in the know.

Just suggesting that it's possible that he just wanted off of the island, and over the years it was made into something bigger than it actually was.

It's like in the Sandlot, where everyone is terrified of jumping the fence to get the ball...but when they do, it's actually a friendly puppy and the puppies dad knew Babe Ruth.
 
Lol @ people saying the writers didnt have a plan.

Clueless people.

Fuck why am i writing this again...............................................................................................................................................................................................................
 
tycoonheart said:
We were lead to believe throughout season 6 that MiB was evil and that letting the evil leave the island would be devastating to all of earth. Right? Does it matter who exactly said it? That feeling was prevalent in a lot of characters in season 6, most of whom were supposedly in the know.

Right and the world would be destroyed.

"Just savin the world" was stated back in season 2.

It is my belief that everyone would go to hell. Instead of passing on into the afterlife.
 
Drealmcc0y said:
"The plane clears frame, finally free of the Island. Jack Shephard has done what he came to this place to do. He has found his purpose. He has found love, and been loved. He has finally found a way to love himself. The bamboo sways across the blue sky, and Jack Shephard's eye closes one final time. He is gone. The end."

Great list Catalix.

I might do one....
Do iiit! It doesn't have to be as ridiculously long-winded as mine. ThLunarian did a good one :)

Solo said:
Parting Words not being #1 is cause for a flogging, Catalix. Just sayin'.
Moving On is nothing but a Giacchino greatest hits medley, which includes Parting Words.

So I win by default.
 
Drealmcc0y said:
Fuck why am i writing this again...............................................................................................................................................................................................................

Because you're a sucker.
 
BenjaminBirdie said:
I think this is my core disagreement with Erigu and most people in general when it comes to Lost. I think anyone expecting 6 seasons of consistency was just asking to live a life of spite and anger.
Well, I think you need to watch/read/whatever better fiction... It was particularly inconsistent.

Are there holes inconsistencies? Gigantic ones (the smoke alarm). Did they come about because the creators didn't give a shit about their audience? Quite the opposite I believe.
There's fumbling here and there over years of improvisation, and there's being completely careless. The Lost guys didn't give a rat's ass: they were obviously introducing new mystery after new mystery without pausing to wonder how they could possibly resolve them down the road (dem numbers...).
And to add insult to injury, they kept pretending that they did have a plan, that they knew where they were going, that they always knew the answers to the questions they were introducing. Bullshit. It was one long scam. And a successful one, sadly enough.

I think episode to episode, season to season, they wanted to put cool shit on television. All that cool shit didn't add up perfectly at the end
(that's quite the euphemism)

but it was still cool shit.
"Wouldn't it be cool if we added a giant monster?! And mysteriously recurring numbers! And ghostly apparitions! And a freaky illness! And hieroglyphs! And an invisible man! And time travel! And...!"

Pretty much anybody could do that. What makes Lost feel so "unique" is that competent writers realize it would be hell to tie all this "cool shit" together into one consistent story and know better than to try: they moderate themselves.

Sorry, but I really don't feel like celebrating Darlton's unbelievable chutzpah for going ahead with that anyway ("as long as our viewers think we know what we're doing, it will be all right: let's constantly assure them that's the case via interviews, podcasts, etc! let's try and convince them that it will all make sense in the end! empty promises, sure, but who cares? "in the end", it will be too late anyway!").
As far as I'm concerned: fuck those hacks. They're not writers, they're charlatans. They clearly spent far more time trying to sell their show than they did actually working on it. And I really wouldn't mind (on the contrary: poorly written shows can be hilarious) if it didn't work. But it did, and that's what pisses me off: they really don't deserve the spotlight. And it annoys the hell out of me when I think of the consequences of their success for SF/fantasy on Western television: they set quite an unfortunate precedent, with that stunt of theirs. Now, we've got a bunch of hacks trying to come up with "the next Lost".


oatmeal said:
Erigu, perhaps you can refresh my memory...
Did MIB ever say "I am going to destroy EARTH"?
Or was it only characters like Eloise, Widmore, etc. that were making such claims?
All that I remember hearing from MIB was that he 'wanted to go home'.
As far as I remember, I don't think the Man in Black ever said anything about exterminating mankind, indeed.
So yeah, like I said earlier, I guess you could argue that Hawking, Widmore, Ilana, Dôgen, etc were actually all mistaken (maybe not lying, huh? I think that would be pushing it a bit too far, anyway)... but what were the stakes, then? Why should we care about the Man in Black trying to escape? If you can't tell, that's poor storytelling.

Speaking of which, I love this scene:
ILANA: Jacob said Richard will know what to do. And Richard said to blow up the plane, correct?
RICHARD: Yes.
HURLEY: Well, Jacob never said anything about it to me. I mean... what if Richard's wrong?
ILANA: Hugo, I'm looking out for your best interests! All of you! Nothing is more important than this! That thing is evil! And God help us if it ever leaves this island! Because if it--
Oh man oh man, that's the closest we've ever gotten to an actual explanation as to what would happen if the Man in Black were to escape and why they have to stop him! Finally...!
[Ilana drops her bag and the dynamite explodes, killing her. The blasts knocks everyone else off their feet.]
EXPLICATIO INTERRUPTA!
Once again, we have a character who knows the answer to a lingering question and is willing to share... but bad luck strikes!
"Ah, well, I'm sure it would have been a great answer that would have made perfect sense! Good enough for me! Besides, maybe they'll tell us later!" [no, they won't]
Man, it's just laughably transparent...
 
OK lets see what this apologist has to say for himself.....

Characters:

1) Jack and Locke

Impossible to decide. The greatest two characters ive ever seen on TV, both with the best dynamic and best arcs to boot.

S1 Locke and S6 Jack were just a joy to watch.

I tear up in The substitute when Locke says there no such thing as miracles and i tear up in The Lighthouse when he bonds with his son in the carpark.

Locke's remember moment is the first time I have ever had full blown tears. Not ashamed to admit it

2) Hurley

I absolutely adore the humour on this show, from Charlie to Sawyer to the big man himself.

The show wouldnt be the same without him and he had a really great arc. The island is a much better place with in charge. He is the perfect candidate.



These are my definite favourites

The rest:

3) Ben
4) Desmond
5) Sawyer As much as I love season 6, that season brought him down a peg.

I find Jacob and MiB fascinating but I cant put them in the top 5.

I have much more appreciation for Kate now that the show has ended.

These people were incredibly flawed and she was perhaps the most flawed out of all of them but she redeemed herself.

She was always associated as a slut and a trouble maker, but she always tried to do the right thing and she truly loved both men.

Music:

Ahhhh too perfect.

The best parts of Moving On is just mesmerizing.

Nobody has mentioned this yet but the heart of the island theme is the greatest theme in the show imo. It is just so incredible, dramatic. Here is the full compilation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ20TL7Jkg0&feature=channel_video_title

Episodes:

1) The End. I find listing episodes hard. But no.1 is easy. The greatest bit of media I have ever watched. 100 minutes of perfection.
2) The Incident.
3) Live Together, Die Alone Part 2
4) Ab Aeterno
5) Orientation
6) Man Behind the Curtain
7) Across The Sea
8) Do No Harm
9) White Rabbit
10) LA X Part 1
I cant stop now
11) Flashes Before Your Eyes
12) Life and Dearth of Jeremy Bentham

Im gonna have to stop there :P

Seasons:

Im still not positive on this

But i'll put them into categorys

1 = 3 = 6

5

2 = 4

Best I can do there im afraid.
 
brandonh83 said:
Because you're a sucker.

christian-fake-locke.jpg


You know whats cool about this scene?

Its very similar to the classic White Rabbit scene except its in the dark, not the light.
 
Erigu said:
Well, I think you need to watch/read/whatever better fiction... It was particularly inconsistent.

Here's why I rarely converse with you. I literally stopped reading after this.

I'd put my bookshelf and media shelf and whatever against yours and it will stomp it into the ground. Guaranteed. I have no doubt. It might even flatten the whole block.

My taste is that awesome.

Stick to the nitpicking and maybe stop short when you're about to make sweeping generalizations about other peoples' tastes.

Unless you're me and you're saying no one else's taste is as good as yours, naturally.
 
brandonh83 said:
Because you're a sucker.
I love how he doesn't seem to realize what his analogy implies for the "we want to believe!" subset of the audience...


BenjaminBirdie said:
I'd put my bookshelf and media shelf and whatever against yours and it will stomp it into the ground. Guaranteed. I have no doubt. It might even flatten the whole block.
My taste is that awesome.
If you can't tell how piss-poor Lost's writing is...
If you feel Kate's backstory is "resonant"...
If you think all those inconsistencies are just "par for the course" for a 6-year long series...
... Well, let's just say I have some serious doubts. I certainly wouldn't trust your judgment when it comes to storytelling, anyway. Sorry.
(Now, maybe you like some good stuff, too. I wouldn't be surprised. But that wouldn't mean you have good taste.)
 
I dunno, some of it might be nitpicking but he outlines why the show is flawed pretty well. Again, going back to the early seasons and thinking about how it ended up, you can tell that the writers never really thought things through.
 
tycoonheart said:
I dunno, some of it might be nitpicking but he outlines why the show is flawed pretty well. Again, going back to the early seasons and thinking about how it ended up, you can tell that the writers never really thought things through.

Yeah..... no.

Its not perfect, but tons of it comes together.

You're basically using Erigu as your basis for why the show sucks.

The kid is a freak of nature, he relishes on decay and hate.
 
Drealmcc0y said:
Yeah me discussing the show, naming all the thing about the characters, episodes, seasons and music.

WHAT ARE YOU DOING DAVE

L0L
Your Top 10 episode list had five episodes from Seasons 5 and 6.

That is a troll post if I have ever seen one
 
Drealmcc0y said:
Yeah..... no.

Its not perfect, but tons of it comes together.

You're basically using Erigu as your basis for why the show sucks.

The kid is a freak of nature, he relishes on decay and hate.

No, I've felt the same way about the show since the day it ended last year. I don't hate the show, but I find it extremely flawed. And like I said, I find season 1 of Lost to be the best season of any TV show in TV history. I just feel cheated by the writers and think the show turned into a huge bait and switch.

dave is ok said:
Your Top 10 episode list had five episodes from Seasons 5 and 6.

That is a troll post if I have ever seen one

lol
 
tycoonheart said:
No, I've felt the same way about the show since the day it ended last year. I don't hate the show, but I find it extremely flawed. And like I said, I find season 1 of Lost to be the best season of any TV show in TV history. I just feel cheated by the writers and think the show turned into a huge bait and switch.

Wanna explain why?

Dont bring up Erigu because that guy needs a doctor(shephard)

Explain it yourself
 
tycoonheart said:
I dunno, some of it might be nitpicking but he outlines why the show is flawed pretty well. Again, going back to the early seasons and thinking about how it ended up, you can tell that the writers never really thought things through.


no he doesn't. he makes up his own answers when multiple people tell him otherwise and try to help him understand. he makes it up as he goes along.
 
Drealmcc0y said:
Nobody has mentioned this yet but the heart of the island theme is the greatest theme in the show imo. It is just so incredible, dramatic. Here is the full compilation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ20TL7Jkg0&feature=channel_video_title
Totally forgot about those themes. I admit, I haven't listed to the whole S6 soundtrack yet. My Top 10 would probably change if I did.

Had no idea you liked Hugo so much. Wasn't expecting that at all.

Drealmcc0y said:
http://primetime.unrealitytv.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/christian-fake-locke.jpg

You know whats cool about this scene?

Its very similar to the classic White Rabbit scene except its in the dark, not the light.
heh, never thought about it like that. That is pretty cool.

Speaking of that earlier scene, DJC did a fantastic fanvid based around it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAFuyHN3Ty4&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
 
BenjaminBirdie said:
That's exactly what that means actually.
So somebody who likes everything would have good taste, by your logic...
I'd argue "good taste" is a matter of discernment. If you can't tell when something is shit, you don't have good taste.
 
Erigu said:
So somebody who likes everything would have good taste, by your logic...
I'd argue "good taste" is a matter of discernment. If you can't tell when something is shit, you don't have good taste.

Regardless of what other people think of things you consider good, if you like things that are good for the reasons that they are good (not, say, watching The Sopranos waiting for someone to get shot or The Russian to stumble out of the woods) then you have good taste. Some who likes everything does not have good taste. There are tons of things I don't like. But the things I like are the best.

Ask anyone.
 
Erigu said:
I'd argue "good taste" is a matter of discernment. If you can't tell when something is shit, you don't have good taste.

So, by your logic, everyone has bad taste, because I'm sure most people like at least one or two things that are deemed shit by at least someone else.

Thus someone, somewhere, thinks you have bad taste. But also, someone out there would think you have good taste.

It's a pretty moot discussion.
 
TheExodu5 said:
I think the problem here is that some of us were really into the show. I mean, I was REALLY into it.

Okay, YOUR problem here is that you are falsely assuming that there's no overlap between people who liked S6/the finale and people who were "REALLY into" Lost prior to S6.
 
Blader5489 said:
Okay, YOUR problem here is that you are falsely assuming that there's no overlap between people who liked S6/the finale and people who were "REALLY into" Lost prior to S6.

Bingo.

I honestly don't know why I post in this thread. I blather on for paragraphs and someone like Blader sums it up perfectly in one sentence and demolishes any possible counterarguments.
 
BenjaminBirdie said:
Bingo.

I honestly don't know why I post in this thread. I blather on for paragraphs and someone like Blader sums it up perfectly in one sentence and demolishes any possible counterarguments.

Dont talk to Erigu, no good will ever come of it.

EVER
 
TheExodu5 said:
I think the problem here is that some of us were really into the show. I mean, I was REALLY into it. I rewatched the series 3 times (1-4, 1-5, 1-5). I probably spent as much time speculating and discussing the series as I did watching it. I was very invested in this show. The mystery was incredibly interesting to me, and I was delighted to have the opportunity to try to piece it all together. I bought the DVDs, participated in the ARGs, did the Lost University...it was a blast.

And then came season 6. It just gave me the finger and said "here's a mythology that makes no sense, and which has no bearing or relation to all the elements we introduced previously...oh, also, it's all about the characters man! the characters!".

Maybe the show isn't as bad as I'd like to make it out to be, but I really hate what the last season did to, what was essentially my favorite show of all time.

I'm just not going to let myself ever get so invested in a show again. It's just not worth it. I thought LOST was something truly different...something with a complex and original mythology, and a show that wasn't so concerned with pleasing the fans as much as it was with telling a story. I thought it was that show. I was wrong.


how th ehell did it make no sense? what was confusing about it? nothing was shitted on, things moved to the end of what it was, Jacob vs. MiB, everyone was a piece to be used for the greater purpose. what? what is it that's missing?
 
evil solrac v3.0 said:
how th ehell did it make no sense? what was confusing about it? nothing was shitted on, things moved to the end of what it was, Jacob vs. MiB, everyone was a piece to be used for the gretaer purpose. what? what is it that's missing?

WHO BUILT THE FUCKING STATUE
 
When the show ended you had one of two reactions:

1. The show which you thought had been promising you a complete and fully realized mythology pulled a giant bait and switch. Huge plot points were left ignored and/or unresolved. What the fuck Darlton?

2. The journey was over and you felt good about it. The finale gave you poignant, emotional scenes of people reuniting in the afterlife. What was there to complain about?

There are a lot of people in each group in this thread. Let's agree to disagree
 
TheExodu5 said:
I think the problem here is that some of us were really into the show. I mean, I was REALLY into it. I rewatched the series 3 times (1-4, 1-5, 1-5). I probably spent as much time speculating and discussing the series as I did watching it. I was very invested in this show. The mystery was incredibly interesting to me, and I was delighted to have the opportunity to try to piece it all together. I bought the DVDs, participated in the ARGs, did the Lost University...it was a blast.

And then came season 6. It just gave me the finger and said "here's a mythology that makes no sense, and which has no bearing or relation to all the elements we introduced previously...oh, also, it's all about the characters man! the characters!".

Maybe the show isn't as bad as I'd like to make it out to be, but I really hate what the last season did to, what was essentially my favorite show of all time.

I'm just not going to let myself ever get so invested in a show again. It's just not worth it. I thought LOST was something truly different...something with a complex and original mythology, and a show that wasn't so concerned with pleasing the fans as much as it was with telling a story. I thought it was that show. I was wrong.

It WAS that show for many of us as well. if youre going to speak for people who were REALLY into it without multiple complete rematches then I get to speak to for the ones who really were invested in the show. Like myself.

I'm beginning Re-watch number 16 today. S1-S6. Each 11 times, and earlier seasons even more than that at least the equivalent of 15 times all the way through, since I don't count original viewings which brings S6 to 12 and the 2-3 times I re watched each episode during the season waiting for the next episode.

Meaning I have literally watched each episode S1-6 15 times now. I couldn't be more happy with the series, Season 6 or the ending. Talk about invested? I own Hurleys S2 backpack, my license plate is LOST and I remade a 5' by 5'4" blast door map with actual black light/acrylic paint across 12 pieces of 16x20 canvas board.

I am REALLY into LOST. I loved it from the start, and couldn't have asked for a better end. So please, don't speak for others because you were 'into lost' as a qualification. Otherwise with that being the main credential to validate your opinion then mine is the more valid one.

Blader5489 said:
Okay, YOUR problem here is that you are falsely assuming that there's no overlap between people who liked S6/the finale and people who were "REALLY into" Lost prior to S6.

This. As stated above. I LOVE the ending. Can not be happier. Don't know many people who were or are more into this show than I.
 
dave is ok said:
When the show ended you had one of two reactions:

1. The show which you thought had been promising you a complete and fully realized mythology pulled a giant bait and switch. Huge plot points were left ignored and/or unresolved. What the fuck Darlton?

2. The journey was over and you felt good about it. The finale gave you poignant, emotional scenes of people reuniting in the afterlife. What was there to complain about?

There are a lot of people in each group in this thread. Let's agree to disagree
or

3. A combination of 1 and 2
 
dave is ok said:
When the show ended you had one of two reactions:

1. The show which you thought had been promising you a complete and fully realized mythology pulled a giant bait and switch. Huge plot points were left ignored and/or unresolved. What the fuck Darlton?

2. The journey was over and you felt good about it. The finale gave you poignant, emotional scenes of people reuniting in the afterlife. What was there to complain about?

There are a lot of people in each group in this thread. Let's agree to disagree

Thats wonderful, maybe you can refine from your 1 contribution to the thread being that im a troll for liking season 5 and 6 next time.
 
dave is ok said:
When the show ended you had one of two reactions:

1. The show which you thought had been promising you a complete and fully realized mythology pulled a giant bait and switch. Huge plot points were left ignored and/or unresolved. What the fuck Darlton?

2. The journey was over and you felt good about it. The finale gave you poignant, emotional scenes of people reuniting in the afterlife. What was there to complain about?

There are a lot of people in each group in this thread. Let's agree to disagree


what bait and switch?????
 
Maybe you were so invested with the characters and the universe in which it took place that it was impossible to dislike a product which took place within that setting?

At the very least, you can't pretend to watch it objectively when you border on obsession.

Like I said, there are both types of people here. You can't dismiss everyone who says S6 was a huge disappointment By writing 'WHO BUILT THE STATUE?' sarcastically. I wish the people who love S6 would defend it with arguments as least as well thought out as Erigus'
 
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