My google-fu is strong.XNarte said:
The theory was that I was David Fury.
And the implication that I should be ashamed of myself, I suppose.
And possibly branded as a traitor.
With an unexplained symbol.
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- Thread starter BenjaminBirdie
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And the implication that I should be ashamed of myself, I suppose.
And possibly branded as a traitor.
With an unexplained symbol.
Drealmcc0y
Banned
BenjaminBirdie said:
Aaron was never special.
Jacob intervened(like we saw in The Incident) and through the psychic made sure Claire ended up on the plane.
Aaron = answered
I may add this back to my Netflix queue.
It was funny, I never watched the show because I thought it was dumb.
And all my friends had started, and I was way too behind.
Ont he chance of watching an episode, it was all wtf.
Asked my gf if she wanted to watch it...nah.
Started watching it myself. And then she started watching it.
Then we were both watching it together any chance we had.
And cried together when characters died.
I knew that I had missed the experience with others,
but at least I got to experience it.
Same thing happened with Dexter too.
It was funny, I never watched the show because I thought it was dumb.
And all my friends had started, and I was way too behind.
Ont he chance of watching an episode, it was all wtf.
Asked my gf if she wanted to watch it...nah.
Started watching it myself. And then she started watching it.
Then we were both watching it together any chance we had.
And cried together when characters died.
I knew that I had missed the experience with others,
but at least I got to experience it.
Same thing happened with Dexter too.
Drealmcc0y
Banned
oatmeal said:
Aha! This is hilarious Erigu's basis is almost entirely on whether the writers knew what they were doing or not!
O lord! Erigu has been answered!
The mystery to Erigu is over!
Now what
I don't remember arguing that, no?big ander said:
BenjaminBirdie and I happened to be talking about the consistency of the plot, there, that's all.
But...! But...!Drealmcc0y said:
Yeah, apparently, that was a mystery. I didn't even notice.
Also, it's common practice for fake psychics (if there are other kinds) to actually pay their clients. Nothing to see, there.
Of course! He appeared in person to the others and didn't actually (i.e. "directly") arrange for them to get on the plane, but never mind that: he just did something different that one time, shut up.
By the way, did he cross out her name when she became a mother, like Kate? Maybe he shouldn't have bothered putting her on the plane in the first place, then?
It means their claims that they always knew the resolutions to their mysteries as they introduced them were bullshit?oatmeal said:
If it was "only there to show that there is a history on the island", why insist on it having an unusual number of toes and have Sayid comment on that?
So he wasn't being sarcastic after all?
It sure was!
I just told you otherwise, but never mind that, I guess, huh?Drealmcc0y said:
Erigu said:
Whoops!
Didn't realize that one was for me, too.
He was being sarcastic. But the statue had quite a few things happen that made it 'important'.
For starters, we see it breaking in Ab Aeterno. Jacob lives in the foot, and dies in the foot. Perhaps you were expecting something bigger? Say, the statue's foot was the keystone to the island?
I don't know. I'm just not sure what you EXPECT 'important' to mean.
Drealmcc0y
Banned
Holy shit Erigu has fallen apart.
AGAIN it resorts to whether or not the writers knew what they were doing.
"You've lost your touch old man"
^ 1000 lost points if anyone can guess when and who said that in the show
AGAIN it resorts to whether or not the writers knew what they were doing.
"You've lost your touch old man"
^ 1000 lost points if anyone can guess when and who said that in the show
Drealmcc0y
Banned
"Just a line of chalk in a cave Kate, the jobs yours if you want it"
tycoonheart
Member
Drealmcc0y said:
Nvm
Drealmcc0y
Banned
nobody knows the 1000 point lost question?
gaf be shamed
gaf be shamed
Well, without them constantly assuring the viewers that the show was actually getting somewhere despite the appearances, I'm not convinced it would have had reached its 6th season (not that we'll ever know for sure, naturally)...oatmeal said:
Anyway: does that constant false advertisement change the quality of the actual product? Well, without that, maybe they would have had to actually work harder on the plot in order to keep their viewers. You know: like most showrunners out there. What a hassle, huh?
But yeah, aside from that (maybe), I realize it's the writers' professionalism and integrity (or lack thereof) that I'm criticizing, here, not the show itself.
Obvious loose ends? Kinda.
Jacob arbitrarily lived in its foot. The end.
Personally? I expected jackshit, at that point.
But both the show and the showrunners were hinting at something bigger, yes.
"Also, I'm really sorry I unilaterally voided your immunity against my murderous smoke monster of a brother in the meantime. I hope you weren't inconvenienced."Drealmcc0y said:
Catalix
And on the sixth day the LORD David Bowie created man and woman in His image. And he saw that it was good. On the seventh day the LORD created videogames so that He might take the bloody day off for once.
See, this is why Jacob is such an incompetent boob that I can never take seriously. His rules are so arbitrary and inconsistent.Drealmcc0y said:
The end of the world is supposedly at stake, and he chooses to continue with this silly "game" of his. It benefits no one and only gets scores of people killed for unnecessary reasons. I really do find it infuriating since Jacob's motivations are hardwired into the very fabric of the show.
Ugh, die in a fire, Jacob --oh wait :-D
evil solrac v3.0
Member
erigu has 1,297 posts and yet I've never seen him post anywhere else. not once. how is that possible?
Drealmcc0y
Banned
Damn Erigu has fucking lost it!
All he can rely on is interviews.
Fuck me, its over.
Erigu's reign of terror is over
All he can rely on is interviews.
Fuck me, its over.
Erigu's reign of terror is over
Drealmcc0y
Banned
Catalix said:
I think thats pretty interesting though.
All of the losties, are pretty fucked up one way or another.
But the two behind it all MiB and Jacob?
They're as fucked up as the lot of them put together.
BuggyDClown
Member
Erigu said:
Baseless argument. You live in a world that people actually follow these things. Maybe a lot of internet people did, but not the real word. So many people I know who watch/watched the show wouldn't even know who carlton or damon were if you asked. They watched TV, not participated in online forum chats. Sure it had a massive cult and online following, but that doesn't mean the average viewer was one of those.
I'd be willing to bet money that 60% easily never read a single carlton/damon interview.
Drealmcc0y
Banned
Catalix said:Damn, I suck. I'm drawing a blank here.
Season 1, The Greater Good.
Sayid to his friend in the flashback playing football
And I said myself that there was no way to know for sure. It's the part you removed, at the end.HenryGale said:
I do think that's why they were so "present" though. Are there comparable examples, for other shows out there?
Internet people aren't part of the real world?
I'd imagine the "Lost viewers who actually care about interviews, podcasts, etc" and "fairly vocal hardcore Lost fans" groups overlap quite a bit, and there's a reason they spent money on all that ARG stuff: the hype it all generated was valuable.
It wouldn't matter to those people, indeed (not directly, anyway: they could have hardcore friends to fill them in).
Anyway, point is: I don't like false advertisement. Even when it doesn't reach the entire population.
Drealmcc0y
Banned
How the mighty have fallen
I wouldnt trust that mother to write a tv show thats for sure.
I wouldnt trust that mother to write a tv show thats for sure.
Catalix
And on the sixth day the LORD David Bowie created man and woman in His image. And he saw that it was good. On the seventh day the LORD created videogames so that He might take the bloody day off for once.
I'd say most of the castaways are flawed in reasonably believable ways. They became fully fleshed-out entities as we watched them struggle with very identifiable self-destructive habits (like addiction, low self-confidence, and delusions of grandeur). Those are indeed very interesting human attributes to explore. However, I don't find repeated cases of baseless stupidity the slightest bit endearing.Drealmcc0y said:
Right off the bat, Jacob already has a major condition working against him: Him, his brother, and Mother are barely even real characters to me. All three are painted in very broad strokes. I don't find them individually compelling. They're not much more than flimsy plot/mythology avatars. If something in the story's DNA doesn't quite add up, it requires at least one of them to be holding the idiot ball.
Jacob is almost 2000 years old, but I feel like he learned very little during his time on Earth. Am I to believe Jacob didn't even consider how disruptive MiB's manipulations would be until Richard pointed it out? Is he that fucking retarded regarding something so basic?
On top of that, I get the impression that the show wants me to feel SORRY for the guy, even RESPECT him. No thanks. After his weak-ass justifications in What They Died For, he was on my permanent shit list. That's one of the areas where I can honestly say the writers let me down. I was totally rooting for that character and for him to finally justify the elusive nature of his "grand master plan." But the whole ordeal just left a sour taste in my mouth that's difficult to ignore. That character's motivations truly did feel meaningless when you start to break it down, which is a shame because it seriously didn't have to be that way.
Yes, indeed. So perceptive.oatmeal said:
I didn't avoid anything: I said that I realized that particular criticism of mine was aimed at the showrunners themselves.
Now, you asked how it mattered at all for the quality of the show itself, and I'm not sure "no, those are two completely different and distinct issues with no connections whatsoever, indeed" would have been an entirely adequate answer. I'm of the (weird?) opinion that when writers approach things like that, it's not exactly surprising their show would suffer. Your argument appears to be "but as long as the end result is fine, what's the problem?", and I have to say I'm a bit perplexed we've come so far without you realizing that I don't think the end result was fine.
I explained why it hinted at more than simply "oh, so there once was a statue there, big deal!" and provided Darlton quotes that explicitly said as much.
If you choose to ignore that, or don't understand how loose ends sticking out like a giant sore big toe are an issue, I don't know what else there is to say on the matter.
You're right: it's the same thing.
An underground hatch on a mysterious, deserted (or is it?) island? Damn, that's weird! What is it doing there?
-> Scientists discovered an island with strange properties and set up several stations there to study the thing.
Okay, so some aspects are still a bit unclear here and there, but overall, this explains that.
An old ship wrecked inland, right smack in the middle of the jungle? Damn, that's weird! What happened?
-> There was a big wave.
... Well, that's... Er... I guess that counts as an explanation, yeah... As mundane as it may be...
What's left of what would have a been a gigantic statue, 15-story tall, more than twice the size of the Colossus of Rhodes? On the magically forsaken island? Damn, that's weird! What's the story, there?
-> There once was a gigantic statue there, indeed.
... Yeees, and?
-> What, isn't that enough for you?!
The whole Egyptian thing is one big loose end. There were hints at connections, the writers themselves hyped how cool it would be to finally see how the whole thing fits in the story, and the show never went there. Big fat loose end. Argue otherwise, be wrong.
Is that because I don't quote the whole thing? Tell me it's not because I don't quote the whole thing.
What did I "avoid", according to you, exactly?
Drealmcc0y
Banned
I dont see how the Egyptians are a loose end.
Its obvious why they were there.
They built lots of the structures on the island and like the DI the most important part was the cork/button that they both built.
Do we really need a back story of them?
Its obvious why they were there.
They built lots of the structures on the island and like the DI the most important part was the cork/button that they both built.
Do we really need a back story of them?
They arrived on a really, really big boat?Drealmcc0y said:
Do you think even 20th/21st century people would have managed to build stuff like the DHARMA village and all those stations without a maintained access to the outside world?
What does that imply for our Egyptians?
So they were even more special than Desmond?
And I hope they didn't have too many workers turn into murderous Smoke Monsters, in that cave: I could see that impacting the projected completion date.
No, you're right: it's all very self-explanatory, indeed.
I don't see why one would wonder why they built that cork either, for example.
And the Smoke Monster summoning device? Yeah, that was explained on the show: the Smoke Monster was summoning Ben, actually. Mystery solved. Next!
Drealmcc0y
Banned
Erigu said:
I dont know how the egyptians arrived, nor do i care.
Does it really matter how the egyptians built their stuff? They just did, this is lost, not grand designs.
Well they built the cork after the events of Across the Sea, we dont know how exactly it all happened.
Its my belief that people who have such hatred(etc) in them that they latch onto the dark side of the source and become the physical representation of it(smoke)
The Egyptians built the cork for the same reason the DI built the button, because they had their own little incident.
We dont need to see the Egyptian story because its essentially the same story as the DI.
tycoonheart
Member
If Lucas and the series had repeatedly hinted at the origins of the force but never explained it, yeah I'd be pissed.Willy105 said:
Drealmcc0y
Banned
tycoonheart said:
We saw the statue once in season 2 then didnt see it again until mid season 5.
If you don't care how the whole thing could have happened, it's hardly surprising you don't have a problem with that, sure.Drealmcc0y said:
"C'mon, it's Egyptians! They just build gigantic stuff! That's what they do! Leave some Egyptians to their own devices for a while, and there you go: they built a big fucking pyramid while you weren't looking!"
You're right: this is Lost, and expecting more than base stupidity wouldn't be very reasonable...
Yeah? I dunno, probably. I mean, we didn't see the statue on that episode (I imagine the kids would have been intrigued by it), and there were hieroglyphs in the (completed) wheel room, so yeah, I guess it would make more sense, anyway...
Nor why.
Details.
Guess the workers were all very nice people then, fortunately enough...
So did Mother think her sweet, sweet children actually had a whole bunch of hatred in them? Was that another case of "you have murder in your heart, kid... just sayin'"?
And we do agree those Egyptians were more special than Desmond, then? They were, like, Super-Desmonds. Or Desmond was a bit Egyptian.
Hey, maybe that's why Jacob took an interest in Richard! He saw the eyeliner and went "dude, have I got a job for you!" ("... the Canary Islands? eh, fuck... nah, you can keep the job... but you're downgraded to "sub-leader"... no, there's no leader yet, I'm just doing that out of spite, fuck off")
(we do agree the show didn't say nor hint at anything like that, yes?)
So, er... the very-nice-people-who-wouldn't-turn-into-Smoke-Monsters found the-cave-that-can't-normally-be-found and dug a hole where they shouldn't have? And then built the whole cork thing (complete with cool hieroglyphs) to plug it back?
Considering what went on in the finale, they did so quickly, too, I imagine... That is to say, as quickly as it takes to fix a crashed airliner with duct tape (on Lost).
It's a bit like the whole "sure, DHARMA fucked up at the Swan site and reacted by quickly (less than 108 minutes?) hooking up a computer to the pocket of nasty electromagnetism, setting a (familiar-to-the-audience-but-apparently-not-to-DHARMA-people-despite-that-one-ARG) password in order to prevent random people from saving the world as they please, and somehow making it so the process couldn't be automatized" thing: you can somewhat explain what happened and hope people will roll with it. Just don't try and actually show it. The catastrophic discharge of silliness would be inescapable and leave no survivors in its wake.
Hey, maybe we didn't even need Egyptians in the first place, then! That would have been an idea: not introducing all that Egyptian stuff if you're not going to actually do anything with it (sorry, turning the foot of a statue into an apartment and using the actual statue to slightly deflect the trajectory of a flying ship don't really count). I'm thinking outside of the box, here, huh?
"Ah, but what will the viewers speculate about, then? We need fuel for the hype.
Here's an idea: whenever we approach areas we don't intend to explore at all (because work is hard and world-building stupid: it's all about making the box look appealing, not about actually putting something cool inside ((c) J.J.)), let's just throw some random hieroglyphs at it.
Encouraged by our repeated assurances that we wouldn't introduce meaningless elements on the show, viewers will naturally try and translate them, debate the whole thing back and forth, and feel like their minds are expanding courtesy of our plot's (illusion of) depth and scope. "Best show ever!", they'll say!"
And that's more than enough time for a viewer to completely forget what he saw on the show, even something as big and incongruous as that foot.
Fucking haters, always remembering things...
Drealmcc0y
Banned
Erigu said:
You must have missed that part with the cork, you know, pretty fucking important.
You write so much stuff, it makes you actually look like you're owning the show, but everything you say, is just filled with shite.
Erigu said:
Take for example this quote.
You completely took it out of context.
The other guy said the show continously showed the statue, but i told him they showed it for 10 secs in season 2 and then nothing until mid season 5 where we got another 10 second scene.
You're full of shit
Drealmcc0y
Banned
Erigu said:
I have no idea what you're talking about
Drealmcc0y
Banned
Erigu said:
Well thats where all the discussion was at the statue.
Besides the Egyptians built the fucking cork, how can you say the cork ain't important.
Drealmcc0y
Banned
Erigu said:
In all seriousness, im missing the point you're trying to make
Drealmcc0y
Banned
Erigu said:
So? lol
Well it is a stone really aint it.
Seriously you're losing your touch old man, i figured out your weakness and you're unraveling in front of our very eyes
dave is ok
aztek is ok
Let's make lists of our favorite 'mysteries' that went absolutely nowhere and let Dreal defend them:
- Hurley's voice reciting the numbers to the French people
- Ben and Widmore not being able to kill eachother
- Ben getting caught in the net and allowing himself to be captured
- Libby in the mental hospital
- Superstrength/superstealth 'Others'
- Others saying Jack wasn't on Jacobs list
- Juliet's stupid brand
- Desmond's monk in the picture with Eloise
- Ben's friend Annie
- Desmond seeing Claire and Aaron get on a helicopter
- The inscription on Naoimi's bracelet
- Who was shooting at the people on the outrigger
- The 'infection' plotline
- Walt, in general
- Cindy, in general
- Hurley's voice reciting the numbers to the French people
- Ben and Widmore not being able to kill eachother
- Ben getting caught in the net and allowing himself to be captured
- Libby in the mental hospital
- Superstrength/superstealth 'Others'
- Others saying Jack wasn't on Jacobs list
- Juliet's stupid brand
- Desmond's monk in the picture with Eloise
- Ben's friend Annie
- Desmond seeing Claire and Aaron get on a helicopter
- The inscription on Naoimi's bracelet
- Who was shooting at the people on the outrigger
- The 'infection' plotline
- Walt, in general
- Cindy, in general
Drealmcc0y
Banned
dave is ok said:
I think Hurley might have recited the numbers in 1977 but yeah it wont nowhere.
Ben and widmores rules are not the same rules as MiB and Jacobs. Its the others law.
Damon actually explained the Libby situation in an interview, it was a pretty mundane answer, but yeah it wont nowhere.
The others were NEVER super strength. EVER. Jack bested Ethan physically in season 1.
Juliets brand is just like an outcast thing between the others.
Eloise in the picture makes sense. She was observing Desmond from afar, knowing the importance of him later on.
Annie. lol what else is there to tell? She was Bens sweetheart friend and she left the island during the 1997 evacuation.
Desmond seeing claire get on a chopper makes sense too. That was the events that were going to happen, but as shown in the show, future events CAN be changed and lead to entirely different events, but at the end Claire does escape the island.
I cant even remember the naomi bracelet one. Maybe I had an answer at one point, but I just dont remember.
Yep outrigger is a mystery. We can make educated guesses however.
The infection plotline makes sense to me. I dont see why people get hung up on this.
Walt. The thing with Walt is the whole special storyline is really REALLY great and makes sense. People who are special are natural candidates for protector. These are the people more in tune with the island. The MiB was special and was a natural candidate for protector. But as said in the show. "Theres always a choice"
However the Walt appearing in early season 2 and in TTLG doesnt make a lick of sense.
I was under the impression that was the scenario you were presenting:Drealmcc0y said:
1) Silly Egyptians dig hole in magical cave
2) Whole room turns red and island starts shaking
3) "Fuck! Let's plug the hole with something, quick!" (*)
4) "Phew!"
(5) "Guys, that rock we plugged the hole with sucks. I just made a new and improved cork, now with cool-looking hieroglyphs on the side. Could someone with no hatred in his heart help me switch those?")
(*) Meanwhile, somewhere on the island, the Man in Black, who had been using his smoke monster guise to pass off as a god, briefly becomes human and mortal again. A bunch of Egyptians, pissed-off by years of slavery and humiliation ("how's my wheel coming along, you worms?!"), immediately turn on him. Barely escaping with his life and traumatized by the experience, the Man in Black develops a deep-seated hatred for human beings as well as hints of irrational paranoia ("the massacre at the temple? that was because I don't wanna be killed! yeah, I'm invulnerable, so what? shut up, James, you don't understand me! nobody does!"). His brother would try and fix the damage for centuries, to no avail.
So if you're not going to explain the cork contraption anyway, why not just have it be a big rock that happened to be there?
If those weren't supernaturally binding rules, why didn't they try and kill each other earlier? In that hotel, for example?
I thought it was funny how they squandered a perfectly good opportunity to explain that one in the flashsideways...
It's either that or simply putting them on the sub, like Widmore. Depends on the Others' mood.
"A lot more! She's going to play a huge part!"
...
"Not literally, of course. Why would you think we meant that literally?"
(yes, except when they can't: the show never quite made up its mind)
That makes the vision kinda pointless, doesn't it?
Sure, I can think of lots of characters who would just up and start firing at people in another outrigger, so far away you can't even see who they are. So many candidates for that one.
Right.
Did you know Claire wasn't infected after all, according to the Lost Encyclopedia? D'ohgen.
Man, someone should have told Jacob about that. Can you imagine? No drama over all those candidates being brought on the island over the years (because you can't just discuss that deal off-island, naturally), no collateral damage... But no. Kid wasn't even on that long-ass list of candidates Jacob had prepared.
So that thing with Walt was really, really great and made sense... except when it didn't make sense at all.
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