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LTTP: Halo 5 Guardians, a.k.a. Halo fans are worse than Star Wars fans

Drizzlehell

Banned
I thought that it was a pretty awesome game and a very solid middle chapter of what was supposed to be a trilogy, I presume. But I guess now we'll never gonna see a proper resolution to this storyline because Halo fans be like: "waaah, why Cortana is the bad guy?", "waaah, why can't I play as Mister Chef for the twelfth consecutive game in a row?", "waaah, I can't be happy about anything!"

Reading some random comments around the net feels like listening to those die hard Star Wars dorks who always bitch about literally everything that's not the original trilogy or the expanded universe.

Like, for example, take this extremely long-winded response to a question that I found while Googling why do people dislike Halo 5 so much. It's basically some turbo-fan contraditcting herself by first criticizing the game for expecting the audience to have prior knowledge about some obscure lore that's apparently only described in the books but then, a few sentences later, criticizes the game for not adhering to some obscure piece of lore that one can only know about if they read the books. Or she's criticizing 343 for giving Master Chief more character because he is supposed to be a silent protagonist, but then almost immediately kinda praising the fact that he has more complex relationships with other charters in the story? Seriously, if that's like a typical example of a die hard Halo fan, then I suspect that these people may be kinda stupid. Not to mention that there's barely anything of substance in this criticism about the writing, performances, set pieces, gameplay - all of which I thought were pretty excellent. And no, I really did not require some arcane knowledge about Halo lore. I'm a pretty casual fan of the series, having played all of the mainline games and having some cursory knowledge about the background lore. It's really not that complex, it's just fun space opera stuff that doesn't even challenge your intellect too much, and it's mostly about the action and drama. I like the fact that they tried to take the series in a surprising new direction with this new trilogy, and I even found this new storyline to be more engaging thanks to higher emotional stakes provided by established characters that you know and care about, being thrown into this new morally ambiguous and complex situation. But beyond that, it's just a series of games with a pulpy plot about a soldier guy shooting aliens. It's not 2001: A Space Odyssey for Chrissakes.

Anyway, good job Halo fans. Now we'll never gonna see the conclusion to this trilogy because the studio got cold feet after the backlash it got from the fanbase. Instead of that, we got Halo Infinite. A game in which I could barely follow the story. And I just assumed it was perhaps due to the fact that I didn't play Halo 5 prior to playing Infinite, but turns out that no. That wasn't the case at all. They just attempted to push a reset button by largely ignoring the events of Halo 5 and starting Infinite in media res, while providing little to no context about how we even got there. And the result is a game with a wonderful combat loop that's fun to play as long as you roam the open world, but as soon as you have to deal with the story missions, it becomes a dull, impenetrable slog.

I hope you're happy.
 

Drizzlehell

Banned
I really enjoyed halo 5.

It had some wonderful levels too, like Sanghelios.

I'll never understand the hate for the game.

I really enjoyed halo infinite too though, but the lack of location variety really let's it down imo.
Yeah, Infinite is really fun to PLAY and setting it in a semi-open world with somewhat random enemy placements was a great idea and those were the moments where I enjoyed the game the most. But as you say, the static midwestern forest setting all the way through kinda lets it down, and IMO the story sucked a big fat schlong.
 

SkylineRKR

Member
Infinite is the most fun to play but its open world actually hurt it. The game has no city, snow, jungle backdrops. Its really boring and the story is actually very bad and short if you make a beeline for it.

Halo 5 wasn't great, but they did nerf those prometheans. Still, it does have more focus than Infinite which is a bad first attempt at open world design. I don't know which one I would pick. I think 4-Infinite are the worst Halo while ironically Infinite has the best gameplay mechanics of all.

I had more fun playing 3, ODST and Reach when I got my Series S in 2020.
 

Valt7786

Member
My main issue with it was there being barely any coherence between each game in the trilogy. The ends of each game don't lead into the next and you're supposed to know whats going on from books etc? Especially from 5 to Infnite. I had no idea who the villain was, why they were scrapping and why he was strong enough to beat Chief in the beginning etc etc.
 
I really enjoyed halo 5.

It had some wonderful levels too, like Sanghelios.

I'll never understand the hate for the game.

I really enjoyed halo infinite too though, but the lack of location variety really let's it down imo.
I like Halo 5 overall. My biggest problem was the repetitive bosses and some questionable mission structures. Specifically a whole mission dedicated to talking to someone.
 

Drizzlehell

Banned
My main issue with it was there being barely any coherence between each game in the trilogy. The ends of each game don't lead into the next and you're supposed to know whats going on from books etc? Especially from 5 to Infnite. I had no idea who the villain was, why they were scrapping and why he was strong enough to beat Chief in the beginning etc etc.
Been a while since I played Halo 4 but I still have a pretty decent memory of how that game ended and I thought that Halo 5 was a decent follow up to that. Like I said, I didn't feel like I required some supplementary reading material and I immediately knew what was going on. Plus there's a clear coherent continuity between the games in terms of visual design, enemies, weapons, etc.

But with Infinite it's like a game from a completely different series. What you said applies the most to that game, it's just a really bad follow up story-wise.
 
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Akuza89

Member
Halo 5 as a multiplayer shooter, just didn't feel right and i didn't get on with it personally.
The campaign though i thought was okay, i was curious as to where it was going especially after halo 4.

I have loved halo, not enough to read all the books and all the other media, but even just following the main games, it's story made sense to me.
 

Rockman33

Member
I found halo 5 quite good. Big step up from halo 4 gameplay wise. Also thought the multiplayer was fantastic.

I think a lot of people just love to hate on big franchises in general. Especially multiplayer ones.
 

LRKD

Member
Mister cheif having spartan homies from books is really cool. That is literally the only positive thing I have to say about 5.
 
I always laugh at how people call every new Halo game bad, but somehow never acknowledge how good the previous games are when they were new. Halo Infinite is a far superior game to Halo 5, but Halo 5 has some cool ideas people will appreciate. I love Fireteam Osiris. Thought Locke was an excellent character. Loved seeing Blue Team and the Chief together, loved squad commands. Loved the aerial movement capabilities with the thruster. Also loved the way you could stabilize yourself mid-air using the thrusters. Lots to appreciate, and I enjoyed it for what it was. I thought it was easily the best playing Halo up to that point.

Story could have been much more though. Felt it ended right when it was truly picking up, so I saw it as more of a transitional story than anything. Halo Infinite doesn't ignore Halo 5. I don't know where people ever got that from. Halo Infinite concludes Halo 5's story in the best way possible without failing to progress the universe forward in a far more meaningful fashion. The grand mystery of what took place regarding Cortana, and that was revealed over the course of Halo Infinite's story while revealing entirely new mysteries and paths forward for the Halo Universe, was the correct way to handle Halo Infinite's story. It's a completely better game than Halo 5 was. It just lacks all the team banter that came with Halo 5 because obviously it's just Master Chief, Cortana and the Pilot.
 

CRAIG667

Member
Halo 5 and Halo Infinite are both fantastic games IMO... I'm particularly looking forward to what the future of infinite holds in regards to campaign expansions.

As you say though, in general, Halo fans will never be happy, it's a great shame.
 

Camreezie

Member
Halo 5 isnt bad , the repeated boss fights are absolutely a massive sin though. You fight that thing about 7 times.

Like another poster said theres some good levels in there like Sanghelios. They tried too much with the open hub approach for levels and it made some of them feel really bland and then theres the Locke issue which annoyed a lot of die hard fans.

Its a average halo game but i definitely enjoyed it more than 4
 

deriks

4-Time GIF/Meme God
The problem with Halo 5 is that has a main story with lots of stuff that could easily be on a spin off. It's a technical masterpiece with poor direction. It's like when you ask for rice and gets it with raisins

It's fun thou
 
Halo 5 and Halo Infinite are both fantastic games IMO... I'm particularly looking forward to what the future of infinite holds in regards to campaign expansions.

As you say though, in general, Halo fans will never be happy, it's a great shame.

I've learned that I actually despise Halo fans more than any other gaming fan in history. Despite me being a huge Halo fan. It's the whiniest, impossible to please fanbase there is. They all say they want something till you give it to them then they bitch about why you gave them the thing they asked for. Then the thing they told you they hated before, they now want that back and loved it all along despite never saying so.

This happened with Halo 4 Campaign and it's multiplayer, it happened with Halo 5 campaign and it's multiplayer, and now it's happening with Halo Infinite and its multiplayer. And here is what most conveniently ignore. It happened with Halo 3 ODST, Halo 3 and Halo Reach as well. People compared PS2 games to Halo 3 that they said looked more graphically impressive and had superior cutscene production values. Many highlighted that COD 4 (myself included) was the much more epic campaign experience compared to Halo 3.
 

Gtafans93

Member
As a game halo 5 was top. levels, power, Ai top notch with some hiccups like the same boss fight. but it was awesome. Story was meh and just cut up but gameplay wise and level design wise. Top
 

Drizzlehell

Banned
I always laugh at how people call every new Halo game bad, but somehow never acknowledge how good the previous games are when they were new. Halo Infinite is a far superior game to Halo 5, but Halo 5 has some cool ideas people will appreciate. I love Fireteam Osiris. Thought Locke was an excellent character. Loved seeing Blue Team and the Chief together, loved squad commands. Loved the aerial movement capabilities with the thruster. Also loved the way you could stabilize yourself mid-air using the thrusters. Lots to appreciate, and I enjoyed it for what it was. I thought it was easily the best playing Halo up to that point.

Story could have been much more though. Felt it ended right when it was truly picking up, so I saw it as more of a transitional story than anything. Halo Infinite doesn't ignore Halo 5. I don't know where people ever got that from. Halo Infinite concludes Halo 5's story in the best way possible without failing to progress the universe forward in a far more meaningful fashion. The grand mystery of what took place regarding Cortana, and that was revealed over the course of Halo Infinite's story while revealing entirely new mysteries and paths forward for the Halo Universe, was the correct way to handle Halo Infinite's story. It's a completely better game than Halo 5 was. It just lacks all the team banter that came with Halo 5 because obviously it's just Master Chief, Cortana and the Pilot.
Yeah it doesn't ignore it completely but it's not a direct continuation either. It skips a huge chunk of time after H5 ended and then it just recaps what happened throughout the campaign through dialogue. That kinda feels like they wanted to distance this game from H5 as much as possible and do a fresh start without outright rebooting the franchise.

The way Halo 5 ends is an obvious setup for a direct continuation. It ends on a cliffhanger where the situation is dire and everyone is fucked and you just want to know how that situation will un-fuck itself.

Imagine if Halo 3 started like 12 months after the ending of Halo 2, and it would start with Chief getting his ass clobbered by some random asshole we've never seen before while on a mission to recover a stolen artifact from planet Zog. You'd be like "hol' up, the last time we saw him he was about to finish the fight on Earth, what the hell happened with that?" That's how it feels to play Infinite after Halo 5.
 

MagnesD3

Member
Halo 5 is wack and so is the Last Jedi, its just true. Both damaged my caring of new entries in their respective franchises lol.
 

Rockondevil

Member
I liked the MP in a lot of ways.
Sprinting, thrusting and clambering are great and definitely feel spartan.

As for the campaign I want to be the Chief unless it’s a spin-off.
Spin-offs though I’m definitely here for.
 

Del_X

Member
Story seemed rushed and bloated. Having so many squad mates meant they never shut the fuck up. To this day I find the campaign hard to play through despite being mechanically sound. The 30fps animations for enemies, lack of a patch for One X/Series to address it really buys me. Decent mission variety.

Halo Infinite has a much better campaign but technical challenges really make it hard to justify a 6 year turnaround. They have to start pumping out campaigns with competent writing in a shorter timeframe.
 
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Iced Arcade

Member
Nobody wanted to play as Locke.

I think they were probably throwing around the idea of replacing master chief to be honest BUT that backfired on them.

That being said... I enjoyed the game.
 

ElRenoRaven

Member
Honestly I loved 5 but I felt it was hurt by the same reason 2 was. People want to play Master Chief in the mainline games.

I'd love if they had done what Bungie should have on 2. One entire game focusing on Chief and then a side game focusing on the other person. In the case of Halo 2 Arbiter should have gotten his own side game. Same with Locke in Halo 5.

That's one thing that did kind of bum me out with infinite. 343 are so quick to over react instead of sticking to their guns and keeping a coherent story going. Example was killing of Diadact off in the comics post halo 4 and then pretty much regulating the conclusion of 5 to the background in infinite.

Pick a story line and stick to it.
 

IDKFA

I am Become Bilbo Baggins
Halo 5 wasn't the best Halo campaign wise, but it was 100% better than the half baked, uninspired shit that was Halo Infinite.
 
As a hardcore Halo fan, I choose my words carefully. Fuck you. You don't have a clue what you're on about.

343 altered the storyline and characters time and time again. Clean slate wipe of many lore things. If you knew anything about Halo then Halo 4 > Terminals would have filled you in pretty comprehensively post the trilogy, as your OP whined about. Halo 5 might as well just be a standalone story, same can be said for Infinite. What a wonderfully misplaced anger filled and generalisation of Halo fans you have OP. 343 could have developed campaign content and season passes for what is factually 50% of their Halo audience at any time over H4/H5/Infinite.

Fans didn't create the shit stories or poorly executed third acts of campaign after campaign.
 
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Kagey K

Banned
They tried to turn Halo 5 into COD. It sucked.

Infinite's MP is 100000000x more fun.
That's how I felt about Halo 4, I thought 5 was a huge step back to the feeling of the series, but modernized and infinite was a cementing of what they learned from 5
 

REDRZA MWS

Member
I really enjoyed H5 too, adding sparrow armor abilities and clambering etc. The MP was best in class. I will as
It I don’t want to play campaign as anyone other than chief, but it was cool to see Locke”s side and how hard it was for him being a spartan, to actually have to capture Master Chief. Infinite is awesome as well, 343 gets too much hate. On this forum, get used to it, it’s 98% Sony fanboys.
 

Robb

Gold Member
I played all the main games back to back and I’d definitely consider Halo 5 the worst by far.

As someone who’s not an huge Halo fan there’s so much stuff in the game that’s confusing. Apparently Dr. Halsey lost one arm and some elite called Jul mdama was introduced, but you’d have to play something called spartan ops to get that story, which I’ve never even heard of. Buck suddenly being a spartan was also news to me and apparently it happens in the books? Like I’d read those before playing this game? Pretty much all characters they expected me to care about seem to be from the books/comics with little to no real introduction in the actual game (Vale, Tanaka and Locke). Same thing with Blue team.

It almost feels like it was put together by someone who knows the ins and outs of the Halo lore and takes for granted everyone else does as well.

It’s all very messy to me. Still a fun game though, but I could play through it on mute and skip all the cutscenes and have the exact same experience as the first time I played it.
 
Agree with you OP.

I played it last year, was waiting for quality to drop.

Turns out it was great from start to finish.

I was like ... Wtf.

But I also played Halo 2 this year for the first time, and I kinda get why people were upset about Cortana being a bad guy. They did a good job with character development for both Cortana and Master Chief.

Still, I would prefer not to leave too much feedback over what developers decided to create. They should get freedom to create and not get bogged down by fan expectations.
 

Mr Reasonable

Completely Unreasonable
Halo is a poison chalice. No developer could release a Halo game today that would be met with universal acclaim, imo. They could release the greatest campaign, amazing 4v4 arena combat, the most comprehensive Forge ever and people would be screaming "take your L, is this even a Halo game without split screen? OH MY GOD WIRST HALO EVER"

I find it baffling what some people consider the most important parts of the package sometimes.

On that basis, Halo 5 was a success IMO, great multiplayer that successfully tried new things with a reasonable campaign (and in Swords of Sanghelios a truly excellent section). Those are the two most important things for me.

I do wish the games would keep their stories contained within the game however. I'm never going to read the books, etc.
 
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Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
They could release the greatest campaign, amazing 4v4 arena combat, the most comprehensive Forge ever and people would be screaming "take your L, is this even a Halo game without split screen? OH MY GOD WIRST HALO EVER"
I think you are massively stretching it man. If they delivered the above at launch (best if that meant the launch of the console) and a good first impression people would have been onboard. It does not help 343i to have this persecution complex and keep rubbing the studios with armies of rotating contractors (which is a hellish way to work in software development :/).
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
They should get freedom to create and not get bogged down by fan expectations.
Sure, but they need to deal with fan feedback and/or backlash if they were to decide to take something beloved in really off the rails / surprise for no reason (aka the Rian Johnson’s subvert expectations above all else approach). You love to have fans because they are dedicated and buy your stuff, well they are not your mind slaves either… is it frustrating for creators? Yeah it is in all industries where there are fans, which is why they try to invent new things instead of only working on a single IP…
 

Dutchy

Member
I liked the campaign though it wasn't that great. But even as someone who knows quite a bit of Halo lore, I felt like I was randomly thrown in the middle of a story with absolutely no effort being put into enlightening me. So I can definitely understand other people's complaints. Me personally was excited to finally be playing as the much read and heard about Blue Team.

Multiplayer was fun for a while, but an absolute goofy shitshow and the furthest departe from Halo we've seen so far.

Also still can't get over how ridiculously ugly forge maps looked. Unfortunately that hasn't been much improved on in Infinite either.

"take your L, is this even a Halo game without split screen? OH MY GOD WIRST HALO EVER"

I find it baffling what some people consider the most important parts of the package sometimes.

Yeah people were stupid to complain about basic functions that had been part of the franchise since the early 2000s. I mean Infinite finally gave us all of that and more, right? Oh wait.

- No splitscreen
- No forge on launch
- No working theater
- No content

But I guess that's complaining too so I'm hoping for the next game to be even worse!
 
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Mr Reasonable

Completely Unreasonable
I think you are massively stretching it man
I don't think I am, tbh.

People who never play Halo continually run it down. Look at Infinite, a game that was Neogaf's GOTY in 2021. Fast forward a year and you'd think it was a terrible broken game because of the narrative around it.
 
I've never logged a single minute in the Halo franchise

Am I teh d00med?

Bonus points if you get the Nintendo IGN Board reference from about 20 years ago :messenger_smiling_with_eyes:
 
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nemiroff

Gold Member
343 made a crappy Halo game, and fans get blamed.. ? Nah, that's preposterous. Infinite was more fun, and a lot more "Halo-ish" btw.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
I don't think I am, tbh.

People who never play Halo continually run it down. Look at Infinite, a game that was Neogaf's GOTY in 2021. Fast forward a year and you'd think it was a terrible broken game because of the narrative around it.
You need to win those too as a creator but being the kind of fan who will always buy and support no matter what is not in any way shape or form more reasonable :). Winning GAF GOTY or not is quite another matter.

The game had major development issues and they showed when they had to delay it and launched it a year later than intended and it still lacked content (and to this date we have not see. The additional variety for single player content in terms of levels and biomes and missions the “true fans” as you label them promised they were absolutely coming… at some point… just you wait… They also did themselves no favour by swearing up and down that in their next game co-op was coming back for sure because they agreed it was a cornerstone of the franchise and then… ended up canning it. Again, repeating what we have been discussing for months… they have a long way to go, as a big studio part of a massive corporation, to match the redemption arc of something like HelloGames and No Man’s Sky.
 

Naked Lunch

Member
I appreciated that Halo 5 introduced lots of new characters. Simply seeing Blue Team on the screen and playing as them was badass. I also liked the simple story sections with no shooting - those could have been a million times better - but they at least tried something different.

H5 gets many stuff wrong though - the Twin Snakes-like ridiculousness was way too over the top and was completely the wrong tone for Halo.

The loud majority seems to scream bloody murder when Master Chief isnt the star - but there is far more to the Halo Universe than just the Chief imo. I guess people dont care but Infinite really showcases how stale MC has become. I think the Chief should be present - just not 100% front and center. Reach's campaign shows it can be done - create a group of interesting Spartans and you have a winner. Probably wont ever happen again though...

The core gameplay of H5 was way way off though. Way too different from core Halo. H5 MP is kinda its own thing - but after all these years, it truly doesnt have the legs of most of the other entries. And its sequel, Infinite's mp is a night and day improvement.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
I appreciated that Halo 5 introduced lots of new characters. Simply seeing Blue Team on the screen and playing as them was badass. I also liked the simple story sections with no shooting - those could have been a million times better - but they at least tried something different.

H5 gets many stuff wrong though - the Twin Snakes-like ridiculousness was way too over the top and was completely the wrong tone for Halo.

The loud majority seems to scream bloody murder when Master Chief isnt the star - but there is far more to the Halo Universe than just the Chief imo. I guess people dont care but Infinite really showcases how stale MC has become. I think the Chief should be present - just not 100% front and center. Reach's campaign shows it can be done - create a group of interesting Spartans and you have a winner. Probably wont ever happen again though...

The core gameplay of H5 was way way off though. Way too different from core Halo. H5 MP is kinda its own thing - but after all these years, it truly doesnt have the legs of most of the other entries. And its sequel, Infinite's mp is a night and day improvement.
People ended up loving ODST and it has pretty much 0 Chief… astounding game to play on XSX BC mode / MCC now. Surprised they got so much out of their engine and out of the game considering it was a project they were forced to sandwich between Halo 3 which had just released (and OMG the lighting in that game, for its time) and Halo: Reach where they were revamping game and engine (especially the latter) again.
 
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