Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Because your grifters only cherry pick the games that fail. They never show you the successful games for obvious reasons.
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Dragon Age: The Veilguard Sold Worse Than 'Star Wars Outlaws' In Europe
- Thread starter Kotaro
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SF Kosmo
Al Jazeera Special Reporter
I heard you, but you get how that's kind of incoherent, right? Like both games are making character that are diverse in terms of ethnicity, gender, sexuality, and body type. That is the DEI complaint.
The fact that Overwatch's characters are "cooler" or "more appealing" is true but what the fuck does it have to do with the argument that being DEI-brained alienates gamers?
If you're just using "DEI" as shorthand for "bland" then I feel like you've lost the plot.
Kacho
Gold Member
The writing in Perfect Dark might be woke, we really don't know yet. The narrative lead is Christine Thompson who worked on Destiny 2. Is that good, bad, woke? I don't know! You tell me homey. Crystal Dynamics appears to be doing the project justice on the gameplay/graphics side of things. I think they dodged a bullet when the game director left the project to rejoin Insomniac, especially after Spider-Man 2. Yizikes! The dude gives me weird, creepy vibes tbh. Remember to always trust your gut.
Gears looks like a massive correction in the right direction after the response to Gears 5. Focus on the bread of butter of what makes Gears work. E-day. dark setting, serious, Marcus, Dom, Cole Train (baby! WOO), etc. As long as we don't have a pregnant Anya shirtless mowing down hordes of Locust while dual wielding Lancers I think we'll be ok. I mean just as an elevator pitch this sounds like a huge upgrade over this:
"Gosh, I'm so complex and emotionally damaged. This makes me interesting! If only I had someone diverse to join me on my journey."
"Howdy, Kait. I'll join ya! I do science stuff and make lighthearted Marvel jokes."
Fahz was the best thing about nu-Gears. I'd pay good money for solo game with him. What a dick! lol
Fabieter
Member
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Dynomite
Member
Fahz was the best thing about nu-Gears. I'd pay good money for solo game with him. What a dick! lol
James Sawyer Ford
Member
The writing in Perfect Dark might be woke, we really don't know yet. The narrative lead is Christine Thompson who worked on Destiny 2. Is that good, bad, woke? I don't know! You tell me homey. Crystal Dynamics appears to be doing the project justice on the gameplay/graphics side of things. I think they dodged a bullet when the game director left the project to rejoin Insomniac, especially after Spider-Man 2. Yizikes! The dude gives me weird, creepy vibes tbh. Remember to always trust your gut.
Gears looks like a massive correction in the right direction after the response to Gears 5. Focus on the bread of butter of what makes Gears work. E-day. dark setting, serious, Marcus, Dom, Cole Train (baby! WOO), etc. As long as we don't have a pregnant Anya shirtless mowing down hordes of Locust while dual wielding Lancers I think we'll be ok. I mean just as an elevator pitch this sounds like a huge upgrade over this:
"Gosh, I'm so complex and emotionally damaged. This makes me interesting! If only I had someone diverse to join me on my journey."
"Howdy, Kait. I'll join ya! I do science stuff and make lighthearted Marvel jokes."
Fahz was the best thing about nu-Gears. I'd pay good money for solo game with him. What a dick! lol
We shall see
If MJ is all it takes to be woke, Joanna Dark looks like a full blown Karen
This stuff doesn’t phase me as much if the game is good, and I expect Fable will be at least
Gears looks like a return to form, but have to remember that studio is run by a Trans and gave us girl power Gears before
Humdinger
Gold Member
The trouble with the question, "Did the game fail because it was woke or because it was low quality?" is that the two are so often correlated, it doesn't make much sense to talk about them as if they are separate. It's a false choice. Woke games are usually low-quality games. That is because woke writers/designers are usually bad writers/designers. Their worldview is narrow and pinched, and they are preoccupied with trivia. So they create shallow or unrelatable characters, shallow themes, and boring dialog.
Veilguard is a good example. Did Veilguard fail because it was woke or because it was low quality? Yes. Both. It was woke, and it stunk across multiple levels. And it stunk across multiple levels because a woke writer was in charge, and because the team was composed of others who were steeped in the same ideology. That showed itself not only in the manifestly "woke" elements of the game (Taash, barves), but also in the quality of the writing, dialog, and characters. Again, woke writers are generally bad writers, because their philosophy of life is crimped and basically parasitic, not creative.
Same with Concord. Did Concord fail because it was woke or because it stunk? Yes, both. It was woke, and it also stunk across multiple levels. And it stunk across multiple levels because it was created by people who had their heads wedged far up their gender ideological constructs.
So the question "did it fail because it was woke or because it stunk" contains a false choice. It's not one or the other. It is usually both, because they are so often correlated.
Btw, I hear people offer counterexamples to this sometimes, citing games they think good and also "woke" (e.g., BG3). But the presence of gay or transgender characters does not make a game "woke." I realize people use the term "woke" at the slightest provocation, but "woke" (as I understand it, and as most people who've been dealing with this for years understand it) refers to the artificial, forced intrusion of modern-day identity politics into a game. It's an agenda you can feel being pushed on you. Simply having diverse characters in a game does not make it "woke."
Veilguard is a good example. Did Veilguard fail because it was woke or because it was low quality? Yes. Both. It was woke, and it stunk across multiple levels. And it stunk across multiple levels because a woke writer was in charge, and because the team was composed of others who were steeped in the same ideology. That showed itself not only in the manifestly "woke" elements of the game (Taash, barves), but also in the quality of the writing, dialog, and characters. Again, woke writers are generally bad writers, because their philosophy of life is crimped and basically parasitic, not creative.
Same with Concord. Did Concord fail because it was woke or because it stunk? Yes, both. It was woke, and it also stunk across multiple levels. And it stunk across multiple levels because it was created by people who had their heads wedged far up their gender ideological constructs.
So the question "did it fail because it was woke or because it stunk" contains a false choice. It's not one or the other. It is usually both, because they are so often correlated.
Btw, I hear people offer counterexamples to this sometimes, citing games they think good and also "woke" (e.g., BG3). But the presence of gay or transgender characters does not make a game "woke." I realize people use the term "woke" at the slightest provocation, but "woke" (as I understand it, and as most people who've been dealing with this for years understand it) refers to the artificial, forced intrusion of modern-day identity politics into a game. It's an agenda you can feel being pushed on you. Simply having diverse characters in a game does not make it "woke."
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Kacho
Gold Member
Nah, Mike Crump is running the show. Dude seems like an old school alpha nerd.
Pretty sure the trans person is just a technical director, and an extremely competent one at that. However I’ve always wondered if Kait was a self insert or just a coincidence. Makes you think…
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Freeman76
Member
No but your typical same old same old are for sure. People are spoiled for choice these days and studios need to do better. Its the time of Indie Studios atm IMO
DonkeyPunchJr
World’s Biggest Weeb
I’m just going to copy part of my earlier post for your convenience as I have already answered this
SF Kosmo
Al Jazeera Special Reporter
But that's the thing, they DID try to make a lot of alternative body types and the like in that game. Maybe not to the total exclusion of a handful of conventionally attractive characters but certainly there was a conscious effort to learn into diversity.
But Concord -- even the conventionally attractive characters are unappealing. It's just bad design with no personality, which doesn't work for a hero shooter.
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Barakov
Member
'Dragon Age: The Veilguard' Sold Worse Than 'Star Wars Outlaws' In Europe
A new report claims that BioWare’s Dragon Age: The Veilguard was not in the top 50 best sellers in Europe and that it performed worse than Ubisoft’s Star Wars Outlaws.Fandom Pulse is a reader-supported publication.fandompulse.substack.com
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Joanna Dark is a classic character from the awesome PD game on N64. That franchise can stand on it's own.
Name one person playing a SM game wanting jammed in MJ scenes? And the studio dumbed down her looks too adding a Jay Leno chin when the real actress is better looking.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
A long forgotten franchise that didn’t do well after the n64.
Adding DEI doesn’t help its case with the Karen man jaw Joanna, she’s the main character after all. It will need to be spectacular
The MJ sequence in the sequel is not very time consuming, it’s hardly something that significantly brings the game down
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DonkeyPunchJr
World’s Biggest Weeb
Here’s Del Walker accidentally telling the truth during a momentary lapse in judgment (he later deleted it):
Here’s supposedly one of Concord’s early designs vs the final product:
What do you think motivates this kind of change?
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DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
PlayStation 5 Pro - Reveal Trailer - 75k -357k
Playstation Portal Remote Player - Pre-order Trailer - 17k - 40k
Nintendo Switch Online + Expansion Pack - Overview Trailer - 12k - 31k
Nintendo Entertainment System - Nintendo Switch Online - Overview Trailer - 6.2K - 14k
Nintendo Switch Online & NES Controllers | Nintendo Direct 9.13.2018 - 1.2K - 12k
Why can't we use this metric the other way around?
Dead Space Remake - Offical Review Trailer - 95k - 2.2k
Dead Space Official Gameplay Trailer - 114k - 1.9k
Marvel's Avengers - A-Day Prologue Gameplay Footage | PS4 - 45k- 3.1k
Final Fantasy VII Rebirth - Release Date Announce Trailer - 47k - 641
Marvel's Guardians of the Galaxy - Official Reveal Trailer - 22k - 1.1k
Bayonetta 3 - Launch Trailer - Nintendo Switch - 4.1k - 225
Destiny 2: The Final Shape | Launch Trailer - 77k - 2.1k
The Callisto Protocol - Official Launch Trailer | PS5 & PS4 Games- 20k - 394
A good ratio doesn't mean a game is going to be successful.
The response typically changes over time.
NES & Game Boy – December 2024 Game Update – Nintendo Switch Online - 16k -165
SEGA Genesis – November 2024 Game Update – Nintendo Switch Online + Expansion Pack - 5.2k -197
The Last of Us Part II Remastered - Announce Trailer | PS5 Games - 85k -91k
Best Selling NEW Games Europe 2024 (End of November)
1- FC 25
2- Call of Duty: Black Ops 6
3- Helldivers 2
4- Space Marine 2
5- DB sparking Zero
6- The Last of Us Part II Remastered
7- Super Mario Jamboree*
8- Astro Bot
9- Dragon's Dogma 2
12- Final Fantasy 7: Rebirth
14- Star Wars Outlaws
19- Dragon Age: The Veilguard
Best Selling Games Europe 2024 (End of November)
20 - The Last of Us Part II Remastered
43 - Final Fantasy 7: Rebirth
45 - Star Wars Outlaw
Upgrades are counted for The Last of Us Part II
We can see that a small demographic of gamers online will negatively react to something on YouTube that doesn't reflect the overall market of the product.
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
This is weird as DEI games like Spider-Man 2 and TLOU part 2 tend to be highly successful on PS5
Mister Wolf
Member
They are successful in spite of it due to being follow ups to critically acclaimed games. Spider Man is also the most popular superhero in the world. Let's see if Intergalactic a brand new IP gets the same level of success.
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
My gut feeling says Intergalactic will be very successful as Playstation fans buy anything Naughty Dog.
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ricardo_sousa11
Member
You couldnt be more wrong, literally Metaphor just won most awards.
What fails is pushing agendas gamers dont want, no one plays a game for its politics, we play games exacly to run away from politics.
If anything, the SP market is growing exponentially over the past 10 years. Dont get fooled by mega GAAS like COD/Fortnite/CS, they are not the market, they bring in the most money yes, but they are not a reflection.
How many GAAS games failed this year alone?
Bad SP games fail instantly, bad GAAS games fail instantly.
Good games live for decades.
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Bernardougf
Member
Crystal Winters
Member
Here’s Del Walker accidentally telling the truth during a momentary lapse in judgment (he later deleted it):
Here’s supposedly one of Concord’s early designs vs the final product:
What do you think motivates this kind of change?
Aside from the usual suspects, I still have to ask "what happened!?" The one on the left is sexy AND badass looking. I like that shade of green also.
crazyriddler
Member
Those damned incels are at it again...
Mister Wolf
Member
Horizon Zero Dawn and Last Of Us successful? or Day's Gone level of successful?
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Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Awards given out by woke media mean nothing.
Markets aren't measured like this. They're measured by dollars spent. The SP market has been shrinking, and will continue to fall, as older gamers age out.
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
Last of Us successful
I got news for you, an insomniac guy who worked on SM2 and Miles Morales again joined the Perfect Dark team.
If that's the stuff that has you worried like this.
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Kacho
Gold Member
Side missions with the exaggerated swagger of a deaf girl confirmed
Hawk The Slayer
Member
Off topic but this new Perfect Dark Model in that image is a big upgrade from whatever they showed in the CG scene months ago so hope they keep this new version.
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Last Hearth
Member
I think the better question is that if this game weren't made by people who were more interested in sexual politics than making a good Dragon Age RPG, would it have been a better RPG and sold significantly more copies?
The answer is yes.
Kerotan
Member
That's a good way of putting it. It doesn't necessarily have to be "macho" just don't pander to the blue haired brigade who have infested modern tech companies.
ricardo_sousa11
Member
Again, markets arent Fortnite/COD/FIFA/CS.
You're grabbing the top 1% of mega successfull franchises and thinking thats the market.
PeteBull
Member
Last of us sold 31m copies only counting og ps3 version and ps4 remaster, which means not counting any sales from part1, bro
Angry_Megalodon
Member
Baldur's Gate 3 proves that a good RPG sells. Had DA focused on quality, it would have sold millions.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Nope. You grab everything in said market, not just the top 1% most successful games.
TLOU remastered only generated 402m revenue which is equivalent to 6.7m units sold. Most of the the games copies were given away for free with bundling with PS4.Last of us sold 31m copies only counting og ps3 version and ps4 remaster, which means not counting any sales from part1, bro
TLOU Remaster was priced 50$ on release.
Hypereides
Member
I reckon it will have strong front-loaded sales, the ND label will carry it no doubt, but ultimately underperform/fall short of expectations. Sony/ND will boast about the preliminary sales for a while, like "fastest selling" or something like that, until they some time after fall of a cliff and begin to taper off.
This is all speculative, of course. It all hinges on what ND does next. Right now, it doesn't leave a strong and positive impression.
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Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
The problem with gaming discourse is that people are comfortable talking about a games sales trajectory without even knowing what the gameplay of said game is.
SF Kosmo
Al Jazeera Special Reporter
Not a fucking chance. This game has bomb written all over it from the moment of its rollout, it had no preorders even before anyone knew any of the shit about its content. They totally failed to build hype for this game and the fact that it was kind of mid on top of it just made it impossible to gain momentum from there.
DirtInUrEye
Member
Anyone else completely unbothered by one of characters in the Indiana Jones game being a dyke? I didn't mind the character in the slightest, she fit in well enough. I couldn't care less. This is the main issue: when they force this shit and it feels it.
To me this outcome is more a response to the awful downgraded render quality of the original character compared to how she appeared in the early trailers. She looked much more lifelike and "Star Warzy" in the teaser, I quite liked the design. But by the time they released the game they had reduced her appearance to that of a zombified husk that seemed dead behind the eyes.
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To me this outcome is more a response to the awful downgraded render quality of the original character compared to how she appeared in the early trailers. She looked much more lifelike and "Star Warzy" in the teaser, I quite liked the design. But by the time they released the game they had reduced her appearance to that of a zombified husk that seemed dead behind the eyes.
PeteBull
Member
Yup we have plenty examples of western rpgs selling amazing, including 12m copies sold from previous entry in the DA ip, so big potential was there, even for 15m+ copies, it just got wasted by dev studio or at least ppl at the head responsible for the direction game took, and i mean everything here- character design, story, dialogues, combat system, even puzzles.
Everything was subpar coz main focus was on pushing woke agenda, not on overall quality of the product dev studio was supposed to make.
Only proper job was done by programmers/coders coz game wasnt buggy at launch and it didnt have inflated hardware requirements vs graphics, aka tons of ppl could enjoy it on current gen consoles(including even pathetically weak series s) and even on low to midrange pc rigs.
thats how it looks/runs on 10yo gpu with a launch price of 329usd
Halo is Back
Member
Bioware is cooked
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
Last of us sold 31m copies only counting og ps3 version and ps4 remaster, which means not counting any sales from part1, bro
is that suppose to mean it is hard for Intergalactic to match or surpass that feat?
IDKFA
I am Become Bilbo Baggins
I haven't played it. I've seen a lot of videos that just put me off completely. I could look past all the non-binary stuff if the writing was decent and I actually had a choice of being good or evil, but the new DA game looks like it went out of its way to be as non offensive as possible.
I recently played Knights of the Old Republic and the amount of choice in that game is staggering. Right from the start I can either be an absolute evil dick head or a living saint. That's the level of freedom I want to see again in a Bioware RPG.
I recently played Knights of the Old Republic and the amount of choice in that game is staggering. Right from the start I can either be an absolute evil dick head or a living saint. That's the level of freedom I want to see again in a Bioware RPG.
PeteBull
Member
Yup, i think it will be surprising if new ND game gonna reach 15m sold copies(official data, sales, not players), not saying impossible, just it will be hard from my pov, im biased and my judgement is subjective so ofc i might be very wrong, time will tell
Vlodril
Member
Most of the sales was the 10$ upgrade if i remember correctly though.
Hawk The Slayer
Member
They could easily do a lot of beautiful black female designs but they always end up making them ugly which in turn cause people to not like the character which unfortunately leads to people thinking the ones that didn't like the characters as racist etc. When that is far from the truth since most people aren't racist. I'm surprised that DEI guy actually spoke the truth,Here’s Del Walker accidentally telling the truth during a momentary lapse in judgment (he later deleted it):
Here’s supposedly one of Concord’s early designs vs the final product:
What do you think motivates this kind of change?
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