Support NeoGAF

[SantaC]

Metroid Prime is a masterpiece, and the Remaster just makes it better IMO. It might be the greatest single player game of all time.

To each their own I guess, but none of those games are on the level of Prime. The God of War games and ESPECIALLY the Arkham Games aren't qualified to wipe Metroid Prime's ass as far as I'm concerned. They're also distinctly not Metroidvanias. Returnal is dope, but still not on the level and not exactly a metroidvania (it does capture similar vibes in terms of atmosphere though).

Hollow Knight is the closest we've gotten in terms of Metroidvanias.

Greatest single player game of alltime? Cool your jets.

Symphony of the Night is better.

 

[cireza]

Symphony of the Night is better.

But it has backtracking and corridors !

 

[darthkarki]

What a coincidence, I just finished it last night. And I can safely say that the design is still awesome.

Very cool! Glad it's fresh in your mind.

But the lack of cutscenes/dialogue is excellent. It's a key element of the Metroid series that Samus is alone and isolated. There is no one to talk to.

I agree - I love the isolation, and I don't need constant dialogue. Plenty of that in other games.

There is no need for story elements. She's on a mission, she knows what she's doing, she's going to complete it without chatting with the locals or quipping to herself or whatever.

This is where I disagree. I get she is on a mission and knows what she's doing, the problem is I don't know what she's doing or even who she is. I am not in any way asking for NPCs to chat with or frequent radio dialogues with my guy-in-a-chair. I literally just want to know what the dragon is and why she followed it to the planet. We got the short text blurb about the distress signal so we know why we went to the spaceship, but nothing after that. That's literally all I want: even just a text blurb that says "the dragon is X and I need to follow it because Y." It's a fundamental aspect of storytelling that you need to present a motive in order for the audience to care about anything. I have no motive to follow the dragon or go to the planet, so I cannot care, which makes it very hard to feel engaged in exploring the planet.

Poor combat - Again, I'll grant that this isn't the most action-intense game around. But it sounds like you weren't using your options enough. Bullet sponges? I was surprised that Omega Pirate and Metroid Prime were LESS spongy than I remembered. Were you using super missiles liberally? Most enemies go down very quickly to them. Same with variety of weapons. Bombs are useful on a couple bosses. Prime pays tribute to Super Metroid by having a boss that is normally challenging but can be defeated easily with a trick. There are options there.

Part of this may be that, as you state, you remember them being very spongey, so now that you know the game and your weapons better and are more efficient, you can defeat them faster - so comparatively it is less spongey. I'd say compared to most other games though it would still qualify as spongey.

But you're right, I don't know the combat as well, so I don't know when to use super missiles, etc. I do try different weapons on different enemies to see what takes them down the fastest, but there are no health bars, so if I can't tell that a super missile is doing a bunch more damage than my other weapons I'm not going to want to deplete a vast amount of my ammo using them. Another area where feedback is important and it's not being provided.

Others have mentioned it's an exploration game, not a combat game, but combat is a major part of the game. Enemies are everywhere, all the time, and a large portion of playtime is spent fighting them. So if it's supposed to be primarily an exploration game, the enemies and combat should be drastically reduced, whereas if combat is going to remain a major part of the game, it needs improvement.

Level design - I was thinking about this a lot during my playthrough and I don't think you give the designers enough credence here. Yes, I still remembered where I was going, so I didn't get lost much. But there are only a few items (plasma beam and space jump being the big ones) where it wasn't clear where to go to get them.

The game does have clear design of being large rooms connected by small corridors, but this was a necessity of the Gamecube's limitations that may not be clear when playing the Remastered version. The corridors were needed to hide load times (and even that wasn't good enough on the GC with Flaaghra or the Impact Crater). True, I wish they would have done more with the corridors to spice them up (a lot of the morph ball ones were interesting, for example, but the tubes did nothing), but I grant this as a necessary evil.

Magmoor linear? Yes, that is the point. You spent a while in Chozo ruins, which were branching with multiple loops and a few large set piece rooms. Combat was easy, platforming was minimal and safe, and the focus was on getting used to the game and collecting your first few items. Then you get to Magmoor and the enemies hit harder and the environmental hazards are everywhere. It's a tense atmosphere (accentuated by the music), intending to make you feel like you need to get through it as fast as possible. Hence the linearity. When you do, you make it to Phendrana where the atmosphere is cooler (literally), slower paced, and the threat is less severe (at least in the opening room). It's a transition area.

And later it serves the purpose you ask for, as a fast transport area that links a lot of the game together. You complain about backtracking and want fast travel. Meanwhile, a key element of 2D Metroidvania design is that, when backtracking is required, the obstacles should be trivial to make it shorter to traverse than the first time through. Usually this is through improved movement options, but that is harder to do in a 3D, First person game. Instead, the designers made Samus quite tanky. Thus, your reward for proper exploration and finding powerups is to just ignore combat/environmental hazards while backtracking. Magmoor is long? Just run through the magma at the end of the game and it's actually quite short. Space pirates or chozo ghosts take a while to kill? Just ignore them! Again, if you recognize your options, you find that any tedium the game has is minimized.

You say that we would be surprised at how much backtracking or repeating rooms there are. Again, I just played the game. Yes, I knew where I was going, and that helps. But I was specifically watching how often and how much backtracking is required, and the answer is less than one might expect. Again, Prime has great design here, and not surprising since it apes Super Metroid. The game has a few open areas early on to give you a sense of wonder and space without letting you get too far off the main track (e.g., showing so many doors at the landing site even though most are quick dead ends). But it is a mostly guided linear path. You follow a loop in the Chozo ruins and get missiles. You get back to the main entrance room, and of course the route you need is the one blocked by a blast door. This linear path keeps you from backtracking too much if you pay attention until you finally get the boost ball. Now the linear path is dead, and you need to go all the way back to the beginning. But it's not too bad, because you have so many new items that exploring is different. If you haven't picked up a bunch of missile expansions/energy tanks, now is the time to do it. And it's the PERFECT time to do it, because this is shortly before entering the space pirate base and the combat kicking up a notch.

It's reminiscent of Super Metroid, which is a linear path to upper Norfair before you finally have to climb the long tower back up out of it and head back near your ship to continue on the critical path. And providing lengthy breaks between backtracking like this is good design, as it means there are multiple new routes/powerups to get rather than just a few.

It's the same with the artifacts, by the way. Very few of the artifacts are in a painful location that requires unrewarding backtracking. It's not perfect, but I found the artifact hunt to be a well designed excuse to increase your collection percentage rather than a slog at the end.

That's all I got for now. I know you are have reasons for thinking the way you do, but hopefully this helps with a different perspective.

I do appreciate your perspective, I think you have some good intuition on the purpose of a lot of the design.

Your thoughts on Magmoor make sense for the first time through. If the purpose later on is to be a hub though, the elevators are still too far apart. I just don't enjoy retreading the same rooms repeatedly to get somewhere else. Maybe that's just me though.

how often and how much backtracking is required, and the answer is less than one might expect

That's also an important point: how much you expect will certainly affect your overall opinion. All I know is I had to cross Magmoor quite a few times. Maybe you were expecting more and so a few times didn't seem too bad, and I was expecting less. Maybe I just did it wrong.

 

[cireza]

Another area where feedback is important and it's not being provided.

You have feedback : how fast does the enemy die ? It dies faster, the weapon was more effective. You are supposed to try out things. Scanning enemies will also help finding their weak spots.

It's a fundamental aspect of storytelling that you need to present a motive in order for the audience to care about anything.

If you can't find by yourself a motive to explore an unknown planet, then the game is not for you. Answers lie in the things you can scan and see in the scenery, they are not conveniently laid out in front of you in the first room you visit.

 

[Cashon]

I agree with you, darthkarki. I played it back on the GameCube and finished the remaster last month. The backtracking really hurts this game. It could've been great if they had just implemented a fast-travel feature, where the save points act as fast-travel options. But the lack of them really drags out the pacing of the game, and really brings it down in my opinion.

Other things could've been optimized as well. I'm not sure what the fix would be, but there's a tedium to switching visors and beams that also brings it down.

Over all, I have it a 2/4 on my scale of games that I finish (2 - An all-around decent game that is somewhere between actively fun and boring. Possibly has a fair number of glitches or other annoying issues). Could've been a 3 if there were fast-travel.

 

[tr1p1ex]

i don't get the complaints other than it's not "Halo." I get that complaint because it actually isn't Halo. IT's Metroid Prime.

Now go play Halo and complain it isn't Metroid Prime.

MP is a first person adventure game not a first person shooter.

 

[darthkarki]

i don't get the complaints other than it's not "Halo." I get that complaint because it actually isn't Halo. IT's Metroid Prime.

Now go play Halo and complain it isn't Metroid Prime.

MP is a first person adventure game not a first person shooter.

This is pretty funny, as I don't like Halo at all. I LOVE adventure games, and I don't generally like FPSs, but MP is factually an FPS. It's first person, and you shoot enemies. That's what an FPS is. Of course, it is also an adventure game - those aren't mutually exclusive. There are different kinds of FPSs just like there are different RPGs.

Ultimately, labels are superfluous. Whatever you want to call it, it leans heavily on combat, but it isn't good. That's the problem. If it's an adventure game foremost, the combat should be heavily reduced. Hell, I'd have no problem if combat and enemies were removed entirely and it was purely an adventure/exploration/puzzle game. But if it wants to include combat to such a degree, it needs to be better.

 

[Pasta la Vista]

Sounds like you were expecting a totally different game. Also sounds like you don't know how to tell the difference between certain genres of games.

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

This is what I'd like to talk about and understand, and I laid out in the OP why it does not seem to be world-class design. Do you have any deeper thoughts on any of those particular points, or any explanation of why it is fundamentally good design to help me understand? If your main argument is "I like it", that's totally fair, but that doesn't make it great design.

To reiterate one point: the Magmoor Caverns is one long corridor, you basically hop across lava from one end to the other. There is nothing particularly interesting in the design, nothing challenging to navigate, and especially once you've gone through it once, having to do it multiple times is repetitive and dull. Most of the rooms are also fairly small, meaning you can't even keep up consistent momentum as you have to stop and go through doors very frequently. Can you explain what is world-class about the map or traversal here?

The way the areas are designed and interconnected in a grander scheme that spawns the entire adventure is amazing. You get to appreciate it more and more through multiple playthroughs of the game. But it‘s amazing the first time too, how you can end back in the starting courtyard of the ruins after a certain boss, or how certain doors open up much later with the right equipment, offering you a new perspective on some rooms. This is something Dark Souls was endlessly praised about, while doing this on a much smaller scale.

And really, the map in MP is extraordinary. Remember, this game came out in 2002. The sheer size and scope of the whole map and of each area was outstanding.
Retro managed to top themselves in MP2 with an ever better map, doing away with the room-corridor-room-corridor sequence that makes up so much of Prime 1 with more varied environments. I played MP2 multiple times and I still keep making new mental connections every time. That game’s overall design makes my head spin. I hope we can all enjoy MP2 on Switch soon.

You’re right about Magmoor, but that area basically acts as a connection between most major areas in the game. It’s a compromise they had to make, and I won’t let the tedium of going through it many times diminish the incredible level design Retro did here.

Also, the sheer quantity of hidden stuff they managed to cram in the game is fantastic. It’s a kind of design from a time where devs couldn’t just brute force more locations into their games, and had to get creative with what they could do.

 

[Mozzarella]

This poll is a trick question, you said Metroid Prime Remastered, so ofcourse i played it for the first time only recently, if you said Metroid Prime without specifically saying Remastered then i would've voted for the 2nd option.

 

[darthkarki]

This poll is a trick question, you said Metroid Prime Remastered, so ofcourse i played it for the first time only recently, if you said Metroid Prime without specifically saying Remastered then i would've voted for the 2nd option.

Actually, checking back, I did say "Metroid Prime" in the poll, so got YOU!

 

[IAmRei]

i can write essay to defend it, but again, each to their own.

for me, metroid prime has lot of hidden stories but not in ordinary way... it's like dark souls, or simple explanation is act like archeologist in devastated ruin. the game is not telling you directly, but there are lot of stories hidden in that ruin alone. TLDR: they give You story, but not in ordinary way via cutscene or dialogues, but via world building around it. and for me, that's the best way for metroidvanias.

 

[tr1p1ex]

This is pretty funny, as I don't like Halo at all. I LOVE adventure games, and I don't generally like FPSs, but MP is factually an FPS. It's first person, and you shoot enemies. That's what an FPS is. Of course, it is also an adventure game - those aren't mutually exclusive. There are different kinds of FPSs just like there are different RPGs.

Ultimately, labels are superfluous. Whatever you want to call it, it leans heavily on combat, but it isn't good. That's the problem. If it's an adventure game foremost, the combat should be heavily reduced. Hell, I'd have no problem if combat and enemies were removed entirely and it was purely an adventure/exploration/puzzle game. But if it wants to include combat to such a degree, it needs to be better.

It's not a first person shooter.

Google even says so. lol. "Metroid Prime is a 3D action-adventure game." First thing that pops up.

It doesn't lean heavily on combat. I would say more the opposite. It's more exploration for one. And two, the combat parts are about recognizing the type of enemy you are dealing with and then selecting the appropriate weapon/strategy to deal with it rather than aiming and strafing skillz.

I mention Halo because a lot of the answers to your complaints basically spell Halo. And the games were released a year apart back in the day and were often compared. Do you want nades? Melee combat move? Right stick aiming? Characters and narrative? That's Halo.

btw, if you google what kind of game is Halo, it says 1st person shooter.

PS: Realize Metroid is an 2d action adventure game. And Metroid Prime is merely Metroid in 3d. Everything in Prime is taken from the 2d games as a rule of thumb. Maybe that's an understatement because it's really more of a 100% port of 2d Metroid to 3d. btw, there is another commonly used phrase describing this type of game - metroidvania.

PPS: The point of saying it isn't a first person shooter was because expecting it to be something it isn't is only going to lead to disappointment.

 

[engstra]

If you can't find by yourself a motive to explore an unknown planet, then the game is not for you. Answers lie in the things you can scan and see in the scenery, they are not conveniently laid out in front of you in the first room you visit.

What is this even supposed to mean? Of course there is motive as a player to explore and discover the world. There's a lot of backstory of what's happened on Tallon IV to be found by scanning items. The issue that OP has pointed out is that there is no establishment of who Samus is and why she goes to the planet in the first place.

 

[Paltheos]

Retro managed to top themselves in MP2 with an ever better map, doing away with the room-corridor-room-corridor sequence that makes up so much of Prime 1 with more varied environments. I played MP2 multiple times and I still keep making new mental connections every time. That game’s overall design makes my head spin. I hope we can all enjoy MP2 on Switch soon.

Fun fact: The original game was formatted like this likely due to processing limitations. It's already fairly obvious but there are signs in the game itself. When playing on Gamecube hardware (and only Gamecube, not the Wii even with the same disc), the game can crash from boost balling through certain corridors too quickly, probably because the game's trying to load the next room without deloading the last one which is a consistently surefire way to crash these games.

 

[R6Rider]

lmao at the salty replies

 

[GigaBowser]

With no nostalgias, Dread blows it away

I'm sorry my friends

 

[Ristifer]

Dread is a nice, casual breeze through a Metroid entry. Perfect for first timers. I’ll give it that.

 

[GigaBowser]

Dread has good combats Prime has none and is easy just confusing maps its all true

 

[Skeptical]

This is where I disagree. I get she is on a mission and knows what she's doing, the problem is I don't know what she's doing or even who she is. I am not in any way asking for NPCs to chat with or frequent radio dialogues with my guy-in-a-chair. I literally just want to know what the dragon is and why she followed it to the planet. We got the short text blurb about the distress signal so we know why we went to the spaceship, but nothing after that. That's literally all I want: even just a text blurb that says "the dragon is X and I need to follow it because Y." It's a fundamental aspect of storytelling that you need to present a motive in order for the audience to care about anything. I have no motive to follow the dragon or go to the planet, so I cannot care, which makes it very hard to feel engaged in exploring the planet.

So all you wanted for the story was a "Captain's log" type intro (to steal a Star Trek reference)? I suppose that's fair. As a caveat though, keep in mind that this is originally a Gamecube game, and instruction manuals still existed back then. I just dug mine up and checked... there IS a backstory listed there which would have given you what you need. Yes, Remastered doesn't have it. But Metroid Prime is so sacred to Nintendo fans I imagine Retro/Nintendo were scared to change any more than they had to.

And as for space dragon, I will reiterate, can't we have room for fanservice? You may be clueless, but Metroid fans know exactly who space dragon is and enjoyed that scene for what it is. Again, Retro is deliberately aping Super Metroid with this game, and having space dragon appear in the opening sequence without a backstory is another nod to the classic.

Besides, even without the backstory, here's what you can piece together. Really bad stuff happened on this ship. Bad stuff was clearly done by bad guys. Space dragon must be affiliated with it somehow, ergo space dragon is bad guy. Space dragon flies to planet, implying more bad stuff might be down there. Better go investigate. Is that good enough?

Part of this may be that, as you state, you remember them being very spongey, so now that you know the game and your weapons better and are more efficient, you can defeat them faster - so comparatively it is less spongey. I'd say compared to most other games though it would still qualify as spongey.

But you're right, I don't know the combat as well, so I don't know when to use super missiles, etc. I do try different weapons on different enemies to see what takes them down the fastest, but there are no health bars, so if I can't tell that a super missile is doing a bunch more damage than my other weapons I'm not going to want to deplete a vast amount of my ammo using them. Another area where feedback is important and it's not being provided.

I think I should clarify; I didn't find Omega/Metroid Prime spongey at all. With proper application of your weapons, they went down much faster than I remembered.

Allow me to switch genres for a second and talk about Octopath Traveler. The combat there is a turned based RPG, where you could, in theory, just do the standard attack, attack, attack, heal rotation from the NES or SNES era. But if you do that, the bosses take forever because they are "spongey". OT has a boost/break mechanic that you are encouraged to use to the fullest extent, which dramatically reduces that sponginess.

So is the spongy poor design there? No. If the bosses went down easily to boring attacks, there is no incentive to experiment with the boost/break mechanic and all the other skills that go with it. And there is no satisfaction in coming up with clever strategies. And since attack, attack, attack, heal is boring as heck, it would make combat unsatisfying. In order for the design of combat to be great in this game, the simple approach had to be bad.

Metroid Prime doesn't have nearly as deep of combat as that, but it also encourages you to use your other skills. We don't need a health bar on the enemies (bosses, btw, did have health bar) to learn this; space pirates die in one hit with a super missile.

And again, I want to reiterate. Part of the reward for exploring is to have more health than you know what to do with. Couple that with liberal uses of save stations that refill your health and, well, you can avoid most combat later on when backtracking. Who cares if the pirates take potshots at you? Who cares about running through magma? You'll get the energy back eventually. So yes, combat/platforming can slow down platforming, but it doesn't need to.

Your thoughts on Magmoor make sense for the first time through. If the purpose later on is to be a hub though, the elevators are still too far apart. I just don't enjoy retreading the same rooms repeatedly to get somewhere else. Maybe that's just me though.

I'm not trying to belittle your opinion; people do have different tolerances for this stuff. I feel the game did have a lot of extra connections between different areas, you disagree. I like that the game provided extra optional shortcut routes on the back half of both Chozo Ruins and Phendrana. I think there were more elevators than required. Could they have done more? Could they perhaps have made Magmoor one giant loop or more branches to make it easier to traverse while backtracking? Perhaps. I don't claim the game is perfect. I just don't see it as a problem and think they balanced as well as can be expected.

And I admit I always just thought of Magmoor as that temporary corridor that doesn't count. While playing, I was making a mental note of how often you come back to various areas of the game. Worst case scenario was the landing site at 4 times, but that isn't bad since it includes the very beginning and very end. But I wasn't considering different sections of Magmoor because I always just speed through it.

 

[K' Dash]

not only it's fucking fantastic then and now, it curb stomps 90% of modern games.

 

[cireza]

What is this even supposed to mean? Of course there is motive as a player to explore and discover the world. There's a lot of backstory of what's happened on Tallon IV to be found by scanning items. The issue that OP has pointed out is that there is no establishment of who Samus is and why she goes to the planet in the first place.

So that's basically what I answered. Explore the game and will know. You simply won't know at the very beginning.

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

There’s plenty of lore and story in the literal hundreds of scans scattered throughout the game, including a lot of stuff on “space dragon” (but really, demanding the game to explain space dragon in detail is like demanding that the characters in Terminator 2 go through the events of the first movie in detail because you didn’t see The Terminator first).
The space pirates’s logs tell you basically everything you need to know about the planet, the Phazon, and the bosses.
Scanning being integrated into the game as more than a side function was made to encourage people to learn through it. Much better storytelling than looking at details in Dark Souls and making up stories that the devs will never officially confirm, imo.

When playing on Gamecube hardware (and only Gamecube, not the Wii even with the same disc), the game can crash

Dat duct tape musta been incredibly strong!

 

[engstra]

So that's basically what I answered. Explore the game and will know. You simply won't know at the very beginning.

Well no, what you said was that it's up to yourself to find what the motivation should be. I'm a decent chunk through the game and it's not like I've found any information that gives me an understanding of who Samus is.
Someone pointed out that the game manual for the Gamecube version does give that background story so it's a shame that hasn't been included for the remaster.

 

[cireza]

Well no, what you said was that it's up to yourself to find what the motivation should be. I'm a decent chunk through the game and it's not like I've found any information that gives me an understanding of who Samus is.
Someone pointed out that the game manual for the Gamecube version does give that background story so it's a shame that hasn't been included for the remaster.

If you read my post I stated that you should find the initial motivation of exploring an unknown planet by yourself, and that answers come later through the environment.

If you can't find by yourself a motive to explore an unknown planet, then the game is not for you. Answers lie in the things you can scan and see in the scenery, they are not conveniently laid out in front of you in the first room you visit.

And the overall obsession with story-telling, knowing what kind of vegetables the main character likes, and his sexual orientation are of no interest anyway. Do you need an elaborated story to play chess ? These are games. You are supposed to go there for the gameplay to begin with. The first Metroid dropped you somewhere and that was it. Do you think people returned the game back then "because no motivation" ?

 

[Saiyan-Rox]

Prime Remastered defiantly made my member berries fizz

and for good reason it's just as good as it was before. Sure could have used some other QOL changes but part of me is glad they didn't in a way.

 

[Serge85]

Metroid Prime is perfect.

 

[FoxMcChief]

I finally beat Tears of the Kingdom after 250 hours.

I started this up today, and I think this is the first time I have ever felt like the switch didn’t feel right in handheld mode. I play 90% of my switch as a handheld. And I don’t know if it’s the hud/helmet being large, but I just feel like the game is hard to see. Also, it’s much darker than I remember on the game cube.

I’m thinking I’ll only be able to play this at home on the big screen. Which is fine. Just a weird thing that’s never happened. And yes? I know I can remove the helmet on the screen, but then it wouldn’t be Metroid Prime!

 

[MAtgS]

I think the poll needs a "mostly good, but they should've fixed a couple of issues". Like maybe they could've added a quick travel system where there's a spot for Samus' ship to land in each region or something. Also, I've been stuck on Phazon Mines for a good while now because of a LOOONG stretch of rooms & enemies with no save point in sight.

 

[Werewolf Jones]

Played it when I was 13 and got filtered at Phazon Mines. Beat it first time recently and Phazon Mines is still trash but the game is an easy 8/10 better than Dread and holds up really well for the most part.

 

[Kataploom]

I played it for first time this this year, it was great but Phazon Mines was clearly rushed, can't believe nobody thought of adding one of two save rooms to it, that was the only part of the game that would prevent me from playing it again

 

[Cashon]

I think the poll needs a "mostly good, but they should've fixed a couple of issues". Like maybe they could've added a quick travel system where there's a spot for Samus' ship to land in each region or something. Also, I've been stuck on Phazon Mines for a good while now because of a LOOONG stretch of rooms & enemies with no save point in sight.

I don't mostly play in handheld mode; I'll just switch in and out depending on my mood/setting. For this game, however, I absolutely agree. It felt too claustrophobic, for lack of a better term, for handheld mode.

 

[bender]

5. The Witcher 3: GOTY Edition

And you were doing so well!

 

[Killer8]

Half of your negative points are actually positive ones and the reason why the game is still well regarded.

 

[LakeOf9]

Backtracking in a Metroidvania game, oh the horror

 

[xpresstuning]

And you were doing so well!

I like the combat, man

 

[zeldaring]

Game felt very dated for me. The atmosphere can't compare to dark souls games and the combat sucks.

 

[Kiya's Guard]

I saw your complaint about backtracking, but that's how metroidvanias are.
You get a powerup or something that lets you pass through a passage you weren't able to to before. I can't say about the remaster because last time i played prime 1 was on the gamecube

 

[Cashon]

Backtracking in a Metroidvania game, oh the horror

I saw your complaint about backtracking, but that's how metroidvanias are.
You get a powerup or something that lets you pass through a passage you weren't able to to before. I can't say about the remaster because last time i played prime 1 was on the gamecube

I don't mind backtracking in games. The metroidvania games that I've enjoyed are along my all-time favorite games, and, as you said, they pretty much all require backtracking.

But they also always have a great map layout, shortcuts, or fast-travel options.

Metroid Prime is largely lacking all three. Especially toward the end of the game.

 

[Tg89]

I don't mind backtracking in games. The metroidvania games that I've enjoyed are along my all-time favorite games, and, as you said, they pretty much all require backtracking.

But they also always have a great map layout, shortcuts, or fast-travel options.

Metroid Prime is largely lacking all three. Especially toward the end of the game.

Gotta disagree there. By the end game (artifact hunting, lets say) you can basically get anywhere in 5-10 minutes. Between the grappling hook, double jump, elevators, spider ball, etc.

 

[darthkarki]

Half of your negative points are actually positive ones and the reason why the game is still well regarded.

Care to elaborate? How is "poor combat" a positive?

I don't mind backtracking in games. The metroidvania games that I've enjoyed are along my all-time favorite games, and, as you said, they pretty much all require backtracking.

But they also always have a great map layout, shortcuts, or fast-travel options.

Metroid Prime is largely lacking all three. Especially toward the end of the game.

This, exactly. Thank you for summarizing much more succinctly than I could.

Gotta disagree there. By the end game (artifact hunting, lets say) you can basically get anywhere in 5-10 minutes. Between the grappling hook, double jump, elevators, spider ball, etc.

You kinda defeated your own point: 10 minutes is a long time. That's not fast, it's not easy - it's a slog. That's the problem. Especially when you have to do that multiple times in a row. Because remember, you might need to come right back to where you started, especially if you're wanting to return to a previously locked door with a new ability. So that's 20 minutes just to check and see if you have what you need to open a door now.

 

[Tg89]

You kinda defeated your own point: 10 minutes is a long time. That's not fast, it's not easy - it's a slog. That's the problem. Especially when you have to do that multiple times in a row. Because remember, you might need to come right back to where you started, especially if you're wanting to return to a previously locked door with a new ability. So that's 20 minutes just to check and see if you have what you need to open a door now.

Lol, 10 minutes is nothing and it's also the absolute max it will take. To each their own though, gamers lack patience.

 

[darthkarki]

Lol, 10 minutes is nothing and it's also the absolute max it will take. To each their own though, gamers lack patience.

You're not thinking about it in context though. It's not just 10 minutes. It's 10 minutes, then 10 minutes, then 10 minutes, then 10 minutes...

As explained in detail in the OP, backtracking isn't a problem. One 10 minute hike isn't a problem. The problem is you are forced to do this both on the critical path and on any optional side exploration over and over. I have no problem with that being an option for those who enjoy it - good on them. But it also wouldn't hurt those people if I could fast travel between save points.

10 minutes one way and then another 10 back is not nothing if I've only got 30 minutes available to me to play. If you want me to reply in the same snarky condescending tone: children might have all the free time in the world to waste on poor game design, as an adult I do not.

 

[Killer8]

Care to elaborate?

Backtracking is a necessity for Metroidvania to work. The conceit of the genre is that you will find areas which impede progress and must be returned to later. You cannot reasonably do that without backtracking. It's similar to the mansion in Resident Evil where you will find yourself going down the same hallways dozens of times. There is no other way to actually execute that concept of "i'll return to this bit later" without backtracking - unless you made it somehow more linear, but then that was another of your complaints re: level design...

In terms of level design, corridor based linearity with only one entrance and exit is not a negative in itself. Level design is about much more than that and not every game necessarily needs to be a Quake-like maze to have 'good' level design. The levels, or rather rooms in MP, have numerous secrets that have to be figured out - an object out of reach, hearing the hum of a bonus item behind a hidden wall, some platforming etc. Each room can be like a mini-puzzle, but the beauty of it is that once the solution is found, backtracking through it later is just a beeline from door to door. This is a good thing, because having to navigate mazes repeatedly can kill pacing.

This is also the reason why the combat is not poor, it is adequate and appropriate for the overall design. Yes, you could layer on tons of complexity and make every encounter have Devil May Cry levels of combo complexity, but again that risks murdering the game's pacing if every time you face some bug you need to focus on fighting it. There is a reason why most enemies in Castlevania can be killed in a couple of whip snaps and why many enemies in MP can even be run past quite easily.

The genre is not about combat and it's not even really about the minutiae either. It's about the macro level bigger picture of how the player solves the grander puzzle of progressing in the game world - not just rooms, world. The beauty of the genre is having an idea of a few different directions you can take to advance, some even being on the other side of the entire map, and then being able to get across that map as frictionlessly as possible to put your ideas into action. It's easy to say "just do fast travel" but that's incredibly lame design - it's an orgasm without foreplay, as it eliminates all the anticipation of "oh, I just figured out what to do" and then travelling there to see if your hunch was correct.

A perfect game is one that does a lot of things well. MP is a great example of a game that is not over-designed in any area. It's just right and I wouldn't change anything about it.

 

[Spukc]

Great OP
Shit taste

 

[Tg89]

You're not thinking about it in context though. It's not just 10 minutes. It's 10 minutes, then 10 minutes, then 10 minutes, then 10 minutes...

As explained in detail in the OP, backtracking isn't a problem. One 10 minute hike isn't a problem. The problem is you are forced to do this both on the critical path and on any optional side exploration over and over. I have no problem with that being an option for those who enjoy it - good on them. But it also wouldn't hurt those people if I could fast travel between save points.

10 minutes one way and then another 10 back is not nothing if I've only got 30 minutes available to me to play. If you want me to reply in the same snarky condescending tone: children might have all the free time in the world to waste on poor game design, as an adult I do not.

Huge exaggeration. There’s very few cases of repeated backtracking in the game. Generally you’ll make forward progress, find an item, backtrack 5 minutes (10 tops, or if you’re not looking at the map/taking the less efficient route), use what you found to access a new area, make more forward progress, repeat. The time spent making forward progress far exceeds the time you’re spending backtracking. The first half of the game you’re barely backtracking at all, you don’t even backtrack on the critical path until you get the boost ball. I can’t even think of a time where you backtrack 10 minutes then immediately go back to where you just came from.

The map is also fantastic and combined with the hint system you should almost never be just wandering around guessing where to go next.

 

[alucard0712_rus]

I voted for 'aged gameplay'. Please don't get me wrong - Metroid is my favorite franchise since Super, but for example a year ago I've played Diablo 2 Resurrected and this game we played A LOT in 2000s - then remaster was out and I've played it for month non-stop, on a gamepad (beated it 3 times with Necromancer, Rogue and Sorceress) and it was a blast gameplay wise. Not just it doesn't felt 'old' - kinda opposite - there was something that we forgot since D2, absolutely addicting gameplay in best possible way, exceptional music and atmosphere.
Replayed Metroid Prime Remastered and it's beautiful, atmospheric but something still felt off, old. Love it still no matter what, especially with motion controls. Still I prefer Metroid over any other game.

 

[JimboJones]

The only part I never really liked was collecting the chozo artifacts but I didn't like that back when it first came out either.
The save point system never really bothered me, maybe I was just used to games like that but even now on switch it's easier than ever just to put it in sleep mode and come back a day later, you don't necessarily have to get to the next save location to take a break.

 

[MagiusNecros]

It was fantastic in 2002 and it is fantastic now.

 

[FoxMcChief]

Yup, I’m hooked again. And I got over whatever “mental hump” I had about playing it in handheld mode. Game is a fucking treasure.