Support NeoGAF

[Crazymoogle]

Managed to get a good deal on a mid-2011 Mac Mini - $300. Last model I had was a 2010 MBP that I had sold over a year ago. Glad to be back and it sits next to my gaming PC.

It's great. I've been running mine for awhile now next to my desktop PC. Swapped in new RAM and added an SSD using an OWC upgrade kit; now it's basically a mirror image of my MacBook.

I have to admit though, I'm secretly holding out for a Macbook Air retina update this fall, as impossible as it may seem. My mid 2011 Air still runs nicely but it sucks knowing how much battery life has improved since then.

 

[VPhys]

I never thought I would say this but I have to admit there is one benefit of the macbook pro form factor over the Air. It may seem trivial but having to use two hands to open the macbook air was a major annoyance coming from the rMBP.

Now that I'm back to owning a pro model I like being able to use one finger to open the laptop and it having enough wait to support itself.

 

[The Real Abed]

I never thought I would say this but I have to admit there is one benefit of the macbook pro form factor over the Air. It may seem trivial but having to use two hands to open the macbook air was a major annoyance coming from the rMBP.

Now that I'm back to owning a pro model I like being able to use one finger to open the laptop and it having enough wait to support itself.

Totally. The Air is so light that you can't just open it with one finger. It's definitely trivial, but something you really notice.

 

[Deku Tree]

I just opened my 11" MBA with one thumb. Not sure what you folks are talking about...

 

[Fixed1979]

So 48 hours after having my rRMP up and running the screen started flickering last night...I'll call Apple support tonight, but I may just order a new one and return this one as I'm still under the 15 day return window and I'm not really interested in sending a brand new computer in for repairs. Pretty disappointing to say the least.

Other than that, happy enough with the notebook.

EDIT: And new rMBP ordered and return generated. Pretty straight forward process.

 

[awilliams213]

Installed Steam for Mac last night, tired of booting in Windows to play a game. I tried to log in and it couldn't connect to the internet. I am on an Airport Extreme, opened up the req. ports and turned off the firewall still no luck. Everything else internet related opens fine on my rMBP

Came into work installed and tried to log into Steam on the Mac here in the office still not able to make an internet connection.

Any ideas MAC based GAF ?

 

[mug]

Installed Steam for Mac last night, tired of booting in Windows to play a game. I tried to log in and it couldn't connect to the internet. I am on an Airport Extreme, opened up the req. ports and turned off the firewall still no luck. Everything else internet related opens fine on my rMBP

Came into work installed and tried to log into Steam on the Mac here in the office still not able to make an internet connection.

Any ideas MAC based GAF ?

do you have the Mac firewall running in system prefs?

 

[awilliams213]

do you have the Mac firewall running in system prefs?

I turned it off in the system pref.

 

[Deku Tree]

Broadwell now officially 2015. Ugh. I guess maybe no Retina Air this year.

http://www.macrumors.com/2014/07/21/intel-launches-new-haswell-chips/

 

[Fuchsdh]

http://www.macrumors.com/2014/07/21/intel-launches-new-haswell-chips/

Hard to get excited about clock boosts, although I suppose there's a lot Apple could still do to make things more appealing for the MBP (better GPU options, cheaper storage upgrades, et al.)

 

[Melhisedek]

Guys I have a 13'' late 2011 MBP with 4GB RAM. It is getting slower and I wonder what kind of upgrade I should get from going to a new MBP? No gaming just day to day usage. I ask as it seems to me that specs are kinda similar

 

[Fuchsdh]

Guys I have a 13'' late 2011 MBP with 4GB RAM. It is getting slower and I wonder what kind of upgrade I should get from going to a new MBP? No gaming just day to day usage. I ask as it seems to me that specs are kinda similar

If you don't have an SSD you'll see dramatically faster boot times and opening of programs, etc. Other than that yeah, it's not going to be dramatically faster in many use cases. Getting more RAM will prevent the system from slowing down under load.

 

[EmiPrime]

Guys I have a 13'' late 2011 MBP with 4GB RAM. It is getting slower and I wonder what kind of upgrade I should get from going to a new MBP? No gaming just day to day usage. I ask as it seems to me that specs are kinda similar

If you feel up to it I would just replace the SSD with a HDD and max out the RAM. I did that for my mum's Macbook and it feels like a new machine now and should be good for another 3 years at least.

 

[Melhisedek]

I checked and it is possible to exchange HD to SSD and to upgrade RAM which isn't possible on later models. How is battery in these things? I mean this one still holds a charge pretty good, not the same as 3 years ago but still.

 

[kennah]

I checked and it is possible to exchange HD to SSD and to upgrade RAM which isn't possible on later models. How is battery in these things? I mean this one still holds a charge pretty good, not the same as 3 years ago but still.

Batteries are cheap. If you have a spare $150 leftover when you are done the other stuff then go for it

 

[The Real Abed]

I checked and it is possible to exchange HD to SSD and to upgrade RAM which isn't possible on later models. How is battery in these things? I mean this one still holds a charge pretty good, not the same as 3 years ago but still.

The model you have is lucky in that you can upgrade the HDD, RAM and battery when needed. So as long as the machine's logic board and display and everything else remain working, you'll be able to keep it for a long time. Definitely invest in an SSD. Get as much RAM as you can possibly put in that model. (Look up the max online) And as said, batteries can be found and replaced fairly easily.

The SSD itself will offer a fairly good speed boost and should be the first thing you upgrade.

 

[Rbk_3]

Gah, I'm on my 4th Retina, and they all have had uniformity issues. Each had a yellow tint on part of the screen. Here is my current one, as you can see the bottom is a different tint than the top, especially on the thin white bar at the top and bottom.

I don't expect to have this issue on a $2000 computer, but it seems pretty common on Mac Rumors.



You can run the test here. http://imac.squeaked.com/test.php

 

[Granadier]

I would give my left nut for Apple to bring the Unibody back. Can't stand the thought of a $1k - $2k notebook that doesn't allow expansion/upgrading beyond the SSD.

Has there been any rumors or anything about a "larger"MBP that is along the lines of the older style? Otherwise a 15" from 2012 is looking better than the Retinas.

 

[Deku Tree]

I would give my left nut for Apple to bring the Unibody back. Can't stand the thought of a $1k - $2k notebook that doesn't allow expansion/upgrading beyond the SSD.

Has there been any rumors or anything about a "larger"MBP that is along the lines of the older style? Otherwise a 15" from 2012 is looking better than the Retinas.

Nope.

 

[The Real Abed]

I would give my left nut for Apple to bring the Unibody back. Can't stand the thought of a $1k - $2k notebook that doesn't allow expansion/upgrading beyond the SSD.

Has there been any rumors or anything about a "larger"MBP that is along the lines of the older style? Otherwise a 15" from 2012 is looking better than the Retinas.

It's not coming back. Go ahead and buy an older machine, but remember eventually you'll have to move on. The current non-Retina 13" MBP will be gone sooner than you think. They're not going to release a 15" again.

The only reason the older MBP is still around is for the holdouts who still need built-in optical drives. Those people should just be glad Apple didn't go Floppy Drive on it and drop it completely in one fell swoop.

 

[Deku Tree]

Gah, I'm on my 4th Retina, and they all have had uniformity issues. Each had a yellow tint on part of the screen. Here is my current one, as you can see the bottom is a different tint than the top, especially on the thin white bar at the top and bottom.

I don't expect to have this issue on a $2000 computer, but it seems pretty common on Mac Rumors.



You can run the test here. http://imac.squeaked.com/test.php

Is it noticeable without doing the test? I personally wouldn't base your opinion of anything at all based upon what anyone said on the MacRumors forums.

 

[The Real Abed]

Oh god. The MacRumors forums. A wretched hive of scum and villainy.. er, maybe just idiots.

 

[Fuchsdh]

Well, after reading the comments in the thread "Mac Pro is not overpriced"... yeah.

I'm amazed how many people there just hate Apple though. What are they doing with their lives...

 

[Mobius 1]

Gah, I'm on my 4th Retina, and they all have had uniformity issues. Each had a yellow tint on part of the screen. Here is my current one, as you can see the bottom is a different tint than the top, especially on the thin white bar at the top and bottom.

I don't expect to have this issue on a $2000 computer, but it seems pretty common on Mac Rumors.



You can run the test here. http://imac.squeaked.com/test.php

If you continue to frequent those forums, you will be finding defects for the rest of your life, and will ask for a replacement every time a fly shits on your pristine alumibiun temple of Apple.

 

[Granadier]

It's not coming back. Go ahead and buy an older machine, but remember eventually you'll have to move on. The current non-Retina 13" MBP will be gone sooner than you think. They're not going to release a 15" again.

The only reason the older MBP is still around is for the holdouts who still need built-in optical drives. Those people should just be glad Apple didn't go Floppy Drive on it and drop it completely in one fell swoop.

Or people that are interested in investing into a machine that can be upgraded throughout the future like me.

I'm not interested in dropping 2k on a machine that has the upgrade equivalence of an iPhone. I'm not looking to purchase a new laptop every two years like I would a phone.

Don't take this the wrong way. I love Apple, and I think their design is unbeatable. But it makes me shake my head when they move their "professional" line of computers into the realm of un-upgradeable, proprietary hardware components. Mac Pro included.

I kind of hate Apple as an organization, so I understand that, but I don't spend a bunch of my free time shitting up forums about it.

Anyway, two questions:

1) I installed steam on my late 2012 MBP (stock 500GB HD, upgraded to 16GB RAM) so I could play Goat Simulator. It runs like hot garbage unless I turn all the settings way down. This machine is normally fine and it's not a high-end game, so I was expecting better performance. However, the last game I played on a computer was the original Half-Life, so I have basically no experience with this kind of thing. Are my expectations too high, or does it seem like it should run better than it does? Even on medium graphics settings it will very often drop to something like 3fps.

2) How difficult is it to move your data from a regular HD to an SSD after upgrading?

Thanks in advance for any help.

1) If you are on a MPB that is just using integrated HD graphics, that is probably why. It runs like hot garbage on my HD 4000 Windows machine as well.

2) You shouldn't have too many issues.

 

[snacknuts]

Well, after reading the comments in the thread "Mac Pro is not overpriced"... yeah.

I'm amazed how many people there just hate Apple though. What are they doing with their lives...

I kind of hate Apple as an organization, so I understand that, but I don't spend a bunch of my free time shitting up forums about it.

Anyway, two questions:

1) I installed steam on my late 2012 MBP (stock 500GB HD, upgraded to 16GB RAM) so I could play Goat Simulator. It runs like hot garbage unless I turn all the settings way down. This machine is normally fine and it's not a high-end game, so I was expecting better performance. However, the last game I played on a computer was the original Half-Life, so I have basically no experience with this kind of thing. Are my expectations too high, or does it seem like it should run better than it does? Even on medium graphics settings it will very often drop to something like 3fps.

2) How difficult is it to move your data from a regular HD to an SSD after upgrading?

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[Fixed1979]

Is it normal to not be able to minimize full screen applications (ie: Hearthstone)? I've searched for the shortcuts (of which there seems to be a few options) and none of them work...seems really strange that there isn't a single shortcut that would work for everything.

Also wondering if someone might have a mouse suggestion, I had been using a Logtiech G series, but want to go wireless. It would be most for general use plus photo-editing and some light gaming (WoW, Hearthstone etc).

 

[Fuchsdh]

Is it normal to not be able to minimize full screen applications (ie: Hearthstone)? I've searched for the shortcuts (of which there seems to be a few options) and none of them work...seems really strange that there isn't a single shortcut that would work for everything.

Also wondering if someone might have a mouse suggestion, I had been using a Logtiech G series, but want to go wireless. It would be most for general use plus photo-editing and some light gaming (WoW, Hearthstone etc).

Since it's a Blizzard game I would assume command+M would minimize it.

Full screen games are generally fairly inconsistent, especially if they implement OS X's fullscreen options. StarCraft II when fullscreen will black out my secondary monitor. Minecraft I can treat like a regular window and fullscreen it. Dota 2 I can fullscreen and keep video on my secondary, etc.

 

[Fixed1979]

Since it's a Blizzard game I would assume command+M would minimize it.

Full screen games are generally fairly inconsistent, especially if they implement OS X's fullscreen options. StarCraft II when fullscreen will black out my secondary monitor. Minecraft I can treat like a regular window and fullscreen it. Dota 2 I can fullscreen and keep video on my secondary, etc.

cmd+m gives a beep, not an OS beep, sounds like it's from in game. Perhaps keeping a second monitor on my desk is the answer though...

 

[kennah]

Mac Pro is actually quite upgradeable. It can even take cpus that aren't listed as part of the website upgrades. In theory replacement hard drives and video cards will be possible in the future.

 

[Fuchsdh]

Mac Pro is actually quite upgradeable. It can even take cpus that aren't listed as part of the website upgrades. In theory replacement hard drives and video cards will be possible in the future.

Expansion aside the new Mac Pros are in some ways even easier to upgrade than previous versions. But the caveat is they require more specialized parts which someone has to actually manufacture. You can't slap a flashed 7950 into the nMP like you can on my old one. Even OWC hasn't produced flash modules yet. How upgradeable the machine is in actual practice won't be known for probably another year at least.

It will be interesting to see if Nvidia is offered as an option, even an aftermarket one. CUDA support is a big issue with some people's workflows.

 

[Granadier]

Limiting it to what you can buy through the Apple site or through very select retailers is not exactly "upgradeability". It's more customization at time of purchase.

What I was referring to is more along the lines of what Fuchsdh pointed out. You can't take "normal" desktop Quadro or Firepro and drop it into the new Mac Pro. You have to go with the proprietary format because they decide to change up the design. Likewise you can't upgrade a Retina after purchase unless you feel like buying an entire mainboard. The only thing you can touch is the SSD, and even that is a non-standard format of mSATA.

It seems that in Apple's mind now, Upgrade after purchase == bad. Instead, require a new purchase.

I'm all for innovative design and slimming down components to get an ultra thin, small, powerful piece of technology. When you eliminate all options though besides that design, it ticks me off. The Macbook Air is the "ultrabook". The Macbook Pro was the "portable workstation", but now it's the "Almost Macbook Air, but more powerful, with no future upgrade forecast. Buy a new one instead.". In my mind they should have at least left the 13" and 15" Unibody's in production on a slow update cycle.

 

[Deku Tree]

Limiting it to what you can buy through the Apple site or through very select retailers is not exactly "upgradeability". It's more customization at time of purchase.

What I was referring to is more along the lines of what Fuchsdh pointed out. You can't take "normal" desktop Quadro or Firepro and drop it into the new Mac Pro. You have to go with the proprietary format because they decide to change up the design. Likewise you can't upgrade a Retina after purchase unless you feel like buying an entire mainboard. The only thing you can touch is the SSD, and even that is a non-standard format of mSATA.

It seems that in Apple's mind now, Upgrade after purchase == bad. Instead, require a new purchase.

I'm not sure that is their main purpose. Instead in Apple and Jony Ive's mind now they think: 99.9% of our target users never upgrade their computer. We want to make our computers thinner, faster, and have more beautiful screens. And that is what our customers in the large want. But to do that we have to sacrifice upgradability "under the hood" for some users.

For me, I have never really felt like tinkering under the hood to much other than to add RAM. So I just got a close to top Spec rMBP with Max RAM. Then I figure it should last for many years. So far mine is almost two years old and it still feels good as new.

 

[Fuchsdh]

I'm not sure that is their main purpose. Instead in Apple and Jony Ive's mind now they think: 99.9% of our target users never upgrade their computer. We want to make our computers thinner, faster, and have more beautiful screens. And that is what our customers in the large want. But to do that we have to sacrifice upgradability "under the hood" for some users.

For me, I have never really felt like tinkering under the hood to much other than to add RAM. So I just got a close to top Spec rMBP with Max RAM. Then I figure it should last for many years. So far mine is almost two years old and it still feels good as new.

I'm not sure that is their main purpose. Instead in Apple and Jony Ive's mind now they think: 99.9% of our target users never upgrade their computer. We want to make our computers thinner, faster, and have more beautiful screens. And that is what our customers in the large want. But to do that we have to sacrifice upgradability "under the hood" for some users.

For me, I have never really felt like tinkering under the hood to much other than to add RAM. So I just got a close to top Spec rMBP with Max RAM. Then I figure it should last for many years. So far mine is almost two years old and it still feels good as new.

But the question becomes, at what point are you necessarily sacrificing qualities of your computers that are valued? I don't feel like Apple is cackling and saying "we'll force them to upgrade!" with these changes. But it does feel like design ethos taken so far as to interfere with usability, which is theoretically contrary to their aims.

Some people can't spend the extra $300 to max their RAM right then and there. Would they rather that person choose a PC instead?

I'm sure that the X% of people who buy Macs are happy with them. But for me, expansion and upgradability are important for me. Maybe Apple doesn't care about that. But if I stop buying Macs, I'm probably taking with me the aunts and uncles and relatives who ask me for buying advice. So in that respect I do think Apple should continue making that a priority, rather than something to be discarded as soon as it gets in the way of the thin new design.

 

[Deku Tree]

But the question becomes, at what point are you necessarily sacrificing qualities of your computers that are valued? I don't feel like Apple is cackling and saying "we'll force them to upgrade!" with these changes. But it does feel like design ethos taken so far as to interfere with usability, which is theoretically contrary to their aims.

Some people can't spend the extra $300 to max their RAM right then and there. Would they rather that person choose a PC instead?

I'm sure that the X% of people who buy Macs are happy with them. But for me, expansion and upgradability are important for me. Maybe Apple doesn't care about that. But if I stop buying Macs, I'm probably taking with me the aunts and uncles and relatives who ask me for buying advice. So in that respect I do think Apple should continue making that a priority, rather than something to be discarded as soon as it gets in the way of the thin new design.

I don't disagree with you. I'd like Apple to produce a max spec 4" iPhone going forward too, but the rumors suggest otherwise.

I think at some point they made a decision that it didn't make sense for them to keep supporting what they view as "the old way" of making computers with lots of room for tinkering under the hood.

I personally love the thinness of my MBA and my rMBP. They are so easy to just throw in my bag and take with me compared to lugging around the old much heavier laptops.

Also I think anyone who is spending $1K+ or $2K+ on a laptop should dig deep to find the extra few hundred to max out the RAM. IMO

The Mac Pro and the Mac Mini are still quite upgradable.

We have this convo a lot in the GAF Mac thread. I guess you folks that want a super upgradable laptop that runs OSX need to go the Hackintosh route.

 

[Fuchsdh]

I don't disagree with you. I'd like Apple to produce a max spec 4" iPhone going forward too, but the rumors suggest otherwise.

I think at some point they made a decision that it didn't make sense for them to keep supporting what they view as "the old way" of making computers with lots of room for tinkering under the hood.

I personally love the thinness of my MBA and my rMBP. They are so easy to just throw in my bag and take with me compared to lugging around the old much heavier laptops.

Also I think anyone who is spending $1K+ or $2K+ on a laptop should dig deep to find the extra few hundred to max out the RAM. IMO

The Mac Pro and the Mac Mini are still quite upgradable.

We have this convo a lot in the GAF Mac thread. I guess you folks that want a super upgradable laptop that runs OSX need to go the Hackintosh route.

I don't think wanting to be able to bump the memory and maybe swap the battery is "super upgradeable"

Isn't this the GAF Mac thread? o.0

 

[Deku Tree]

I don't think wanting to be able to bump the memory and maybe swap the battery is "super upgradeable"

Isn't this the GAF Mac thread? o.0

Yup. Don't you remember having this conversation before?

The laptop batteries are good for about 1000 charges, and they last all day for most users. But I guess you can't run Photoshop or Final Cut Pro on a 8+ hour plane ride and work the whole time...

 

[Fuchsdh]

Yup. Don't you remember having this conversation before?

The laptop batteries are good for about 1000 charges, and they last all day for most users. But I guess you can't run Photoshop or Final Cut Pro on a 8+ hour plane ride and work the whole time...

I find that with GAF threads everything that has happened before will happen again

 

[fireside]

a lot of the newer hardware design decisions apple is making does seem like spiteful "you want more ram you gotta buy a new computer" stuff

i mean, i understand using custom ram modules or ssd sticks instead of sticking with outdated form factors but i don't understand soldering that shit to the motherboard

 

[The Real Abed]

Personally I'm with Jony. I want a super thin light device/computer that I will probably never upgrade, sans RAM possibly instead of a slightly bulkier device with extra parts to make things replaceable. But that's just me.

Don't get used to the 13" MBP with optical sticking around. It will not be around for long. It's clear what direction Apple is going.

 

[EmiPrime]

I'm all for innovative design and slimming down components to get an ultra thin, small, powerful piece of technology. When you eliminate all options though besides that design, it ticks me off. The Macbook Air is the "ultrabook". The Macbook Pro was the "portable workstation", but now it's the "Almost Macbook Air, but more powerful, with no future upgrade forecast. Buy a new one instead.". In my mind they should have at least left the 13" and 15" Unibody's in production on a slow update cycle.

I agree with you. For the MBA I think that's the right way to go but for everything else I don't like it and it's arguably shoddy design to be glueing everything and using bespoke parts so that it's needlessly difficult to repair or upgrade.

Is it normal to not be able to minimize full screen applications (ie: Hearthstone)? I've searched for the shortcuts (of which there seems to be a few options) and none of them work...seems really strange that there isn't a single shortcut that would work for everything.

Also wondering if someone might have a mouse suggestion, I had been using a Logtiech G series, but want to go wireless. It would be most for general use plus photo-editing and some light gaming (WoW, Hearthstone etc).

I run Hearthstone in windowed mode.

I have a Steelseries mouse. Drivers are okay in OS X and it's pretty comfortable.

 

[Granadier]

I agree with you. For the MBA I think that's the right way to go but for everything else I don't like it and it's arguably shoddy design to be glueing everything and using bespoke parts so that it's needlessly difficult to repair or upgrade.

Exactly.

2012 MBP's iFixit repair score was 7/10. The Retina MBP is 1/10..

Unibody

Retina

 

[Rbk_3]

Is it noticeable without doing the test? I personally wouldn't base your opinion of anything at all based upon what anyone said on the MacRumors forums.

Yes. Now that I have seen it I can't unsee it. The bottom of a white web page is noticeably more yellow than the top.

 

[Deku Tree]

Yes. Now that I have seen it I can't unsee it. The bottom of a white web page is noticeably more yellow than the top.

That's the MacRumors forums curse.

 

[fireside]

Yes. Now that I have seen it I can't unsee it. The bottom of a white web page is noticeably more yellow than the top.

you'll get used to the uneven display. well, i did.

plus returning it and setting it up and doing all that crap a bunch of times until you find "the perfect one" (which is unlikely to happen) isn't particularly fun. unless it's really bad i'm not sure it's worth the effort.

 

[anonymous_abc]

you'll get used to the uneven display. well, i did.

plus returning it and setting it up and doing all that crap a bunch of times until you find "the perfect one" (which is unlikely to happen) isn't particularly fun. unless it's really bad i'm not sure it's worth the effort.

Time machine makes that pretty hassle free.

 

[Granadier]

you'll get used to the uneven display. well, i did.

plus returning it and setting it up and doing all that crap a bunch of times until you find "the perfect one" (which is unlikely to happen) isn't particularly fun. unless it's really bad i'm not sure it's worth the effort.

Why would you attempt to convince someone not to return their defective $2,000 machine to get a replacement?

 

[fireside]

Why would you attempt to convince someone not to return their defective $2,000 machine to get a replacement?

cause i've been down that rabbit hole and ultimately it wasn't really worth it. it got to the point where i was seeing lines and uneven colors and yellow spots and that stupid checkerboard pattern on everything. if the problem is really bad by all means try to get a replacement but trying to get the "perfect" thing can easily consume you.

 

[kennah]

One of the first things I'm going todo if I get the job I interviewed for yesterday is get myself a new 15" (when they release in October)

 

[Granadier]

cause i've been down that rabbit hole and ultimately it wasn't really worth it. it got to the point where i was seeing lines and uneven colors and yellow spots and that stupid checkerboard pattern on everything. if the problem is really bad by all means try to get a replacement but trying to get the "perfect" thing can easily consume you.

Sure, that may work for you. But don't try and force that mentality on others.

If he's displeased with his display and he wants to replace it, he should.