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[Miggytronz]

http://www.macrumors.com/2010/05/31...ndows-mostly-to-mac-due-to-security-concerns/

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

oh boy thats awesome. Windows FANBOYS are gonna flip out.

 

[PhoncipleBone]

http://www.macrumors.com/2010/05/31...ndows-mostly-to-mac-due-to-security-concerns/

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

The problem then becomes that a lot of hackers will focus on OSX then. That has been one big reason that OSX has been mostly virus issue free is that there has not been much focus on it by hackers compared to windows.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

The problem then becomes that a lot of hackers will focus on OSX then. That has been one big reason that OSX has been mostly virus issue free is that there has not been much focus on it by hackers compared to windows.

What changed between OS9 and OSX? Marketshare is way up now, but there are still no viruses. They've had a decade to do it.

 

[wolfmat]

The days of casual hacking are pretty much over, nowadays, the real threat is professional hacking. So the attention of the masses isn't as much a factor nowadays as it was in 2002, for example.

 

[luoapp]

What changed between OS9 and OSX? Marketshare is way up now, but there are still no viruses. They've had a decade to do it.

In the hack competition Pwn2Own 2010, Safari was the first to fall, followed by Internet Explorer 8 on Windows 7. Firefox on Windows 7 x64.

I am just saying.

 

[PhoncipleBone]

What changed between OS9 and OSX? Marketshare is way up now, but there are still no viruses. They've had a decade to do it.

I made the mistake of reading some of the Google thread. I always thought that the professionals would go after a bigger target, but I also know security on OSX is still much tighter than Windows. And I dont think I will go back over to that thread either. I think the Apple vs. PC stuff is more vomit inducing than console wars.

 

[SnakeXs]

In the hack competition Pwn2Own 2010, Safari was the first to fall, followed by Internet Explorer 8 on Windows 7. Firefox on Windows 7 x64.

I am just saying.

That's like breaking a 99¢ lock on a door that leads to nothing, though. They find exploits but nothing ever develops from them.

 

[scorcho]

The days of casual hacking are pretty much over, nowadays, the real threat is professional hacking. So the attention of the masses isn't as much a factor nowadays as it was in 2002, for example.

ding.

 

[RubxQub]

The days of casual hacking are pretty much over, nowadays, the real threat is professional hacking. So the attention of the masses isn't as much a factor nowadays as it was in 2002, for example.

What's the distinction between professional vs. casual hacking?

Like white hat vs. black hat?

 

[rezuth]

In the hack competition Pwn2Own 2010, Safari was the first to fall, followed by Internet Explorer 8 on Windows 7. Firefox on Windows 7 x64.

I am just saying.

However the user still has to browse to the site so it can inject code. There will never be anything that can protect you from stupid users.

 

[scorcho]

What's the distinction between professional vs. casual hacking?

Like white hat vs. black hat?

it's the difference between something like the Anna Kournikova virus and Conficker.

also, just read this - http://blog.intego.com/2010/06/01/i...alled-by-freely-distributed-mac-applications/

the canard that Macs are immune to viruses and backdoors kinda misses the point that they are just as likely to be slipped in to purportedly legitimate software installations than through exploits.

 

[RubxQub]

it's the difference between something like the Anna Kournikova virus and Conficker.

also, just read this - http://blog.intego.com/2010/06/01/i...alled-by-freely-distributed-mac-applications/

the canard that Macs are immune to viruses and backdoors kinda misses the point that they are just as likely to be slipped in to purportedly legitimate software installations than through exploits.

Oh absolutely. The user at the end of the day could allow any nonsense in on any operating system.

 

[luoapp]

That's like breaking a 99¢ lock on a door that leads to nothing, though. They find exploits but nothing ever develops from them.

What do you mean "leads to nothing"？ Once pwned, it opens the door to everything -- "arbitrary code execution"

However the user still has to browse to the site so it can inject code. There will never be anything that can protect you from stupid users.

True. Users are always stupid. But the fact that Safari/Mac OS has been the first browser to fall for 4yr since the contest began should tell you something.

 

[LCfiner]

What do you mean "leads to nothing"？ Once pwned, it opens the door to everything -- "arbitrary code execution"



True. Users are always stupid. But the fact that Safari/Mac OS has been the first browser to fall for 4yr since the contest began should tell you something.

It tells me I shouldn't be using safari on windows.

 

[RubxQub]

True. Users are always stupid. But the fact that Safari/Mac OS has been the first browser to fall for 4yr since the contest began should tell you something.

It tells you that it's a much more interesting headline than if Windows went down first.

Pretending that which OS goes down first means which is the most vulnerable shows that someone doesn't know how the event works. The guy had the hack ready to go, so the moment he walked into the competition he just had to run it and it was his.

There's no reason why someone couldn't have just done this with a Windows or Linux system, it's just the dude does it on Mac systems to grab the headlines and to try and make a point.

Well the point falls on deaf ears (my own in particular) when it isn't translating into the real world.

 

[luoapp]

It tells me I shouldn't be using safari on windows.

Unfortunately, it was Safari on Mac OSX (with latest patch).

It tells you that it's a much more interesting headline than if Windows went down first.

Pretending that which OS goes down first means which is the most vulnerable shows that someone doesn't know how the event works. The guy had the hack ready to go, so the moment he walked into the competition he just had to run it and it was his.

There's no reason why someone couldn't have just done this with a Windows or Linux system, it's just the dude does it on Mac systems to grab the headlines and to try and make a point.

Give me a break. There was a 10,000 dollars + 1 laptop prize hanging there. And you think Windows hackers would just risk losing the prize, so someone else could "grab the headlines" and "make a point"?

And of course everyone know the platform they were targeting, prepared for months if not years and have an exploit "ready to go".

 

[mrkgoo]

The problem then becomes that a lot of hackers will focus on OSX then. That has been one big reason that OSX has been mostly virus issue free is that there has not been much focus on it by hackers compared to windows.

I never bought this as the full reason. If it is to do with the size of the user base primarily, then it should be proportional. 10 x less users on Mac? Then we should see 10x less viruses. maybe if we,re being generous, 100x less. But we don't - we see none.

 

[qwerty2k]

The main reason Mac and Linux tend to be more virus resillient than windows is down to the *nix security model that is in place whereby you are required to put in a password to mess with any system related stuff where as in windows most people tend to run as an admin by default, whilst vista and 7 is better in this regard iirc someone has made a windows 7 hack which can put any program onto the internal whitelist so they can bypass any security boxes popping up when self elevating the programs privilages.

 

[wolfmat]

What's the distinction between professional vs. casual hacking?

Like white hat vs. black hat?

No, the distinction lies in the wanted result.

Casual hacking, as it was experienced in the late 90s, early 2ks, was pretty much just a cheap shot at security holes to get some fame.

Professional hacking is organized research, investment into intellectual goods, to make a profit by realizing a security threat in some form. So you'd form a team to breach OpenSSH security for server versions < 5.4 with 256-bit Blowfish, then sell that to someone who can use it effectively.

Sounds like something from a spy movie, but the market certainly does exist, and there's people exchanging goods on it.

Compared to that, uni-student-level poking into string buffer exploits is ridiculously primitive.

 

[RubxQub]

Give me a break. There was a 10,000 dollars + 1 laptop prize hanging there. And you think Windows hackers would just risk losing the prize, so someone else could "grab the headlines" and "make a point"?

And of course everyone know the platform they were targeting, prepared for months if not years and have an exploit "ready to go".

Don't you see how this format doesn't lend itself to "which platform is more vulnerable" at all? It lends itself to "which operating system's vulnerability can be taken advantage of the most quickly."

Like you said, they have all the time in the world to come up with the hack, so the objective isn't to hack the OS, it's to hack it in a way that you get control in the shortest amount of time.

So OSX hands over the keys faster than Windows, but apparently is much better at hiding those keys? That's a valid observation, at least.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I never bought this as the full reason. If it is to do with the size of the user base primarily, then it should be proportional. 10 x less users on Mac? Then we should see 10x less viruses. maybe if we,re being generous, 100x less. But we don't - we see none.

OSX is always the first to go down at hacking competitions.

the interest just isn't there in the wild.

 

[RubxQub]

OSX is always the first to go down at hacking competitions.

the interest just isn't there in the wild.

See above.

 

[Jasoco]

alrightey. then you guys glow away your machine. lol.

if that floats your boat, don't let me get in the way. I was just offering an alternative option. But to suggest it's "bloated" is just stupid. I just opened it up and looked at my activity monitor. "bloated" is just silly talk. personally, I'd take the 30-second download and keep on moving than formatting and installing my OS.

It IS bloated. All Adobe software is. It installs Adobe Air, whether you want it or not, which is just another piece of bloat if you don't use apps that need it. I had to literally put PhotoShop CS3 on a diet in order to cut it down to 40% of its original overall size because it installs all kinds of software that most people don't need without asking first. Adobe Reader is unneeded on OS X because Preview can view them right out of the box with a tiny little app that comes with the OS instead of a piece of bloatware. And yes, it IS bloat. Anyone who denies it just doesn't know what bloat is.

 

[saelz8]

Macbook Pro's come with the matte screen by default, correct? (Best Buy, specifically. If it's relevant.)

 

[Burger]

It IS bloated. All Adobe software is. It installs Adobe Air, whether you want it or not, which is just another piece of bloat if you don't use apps that need it. I had to literally put PhotoShop CS3 on a diet in order to cut it down to 40% of its original overall size because it installs all kinds of software that most people don't need without asking first. Adobe Reader is unneeded on OS X because Preview can view them right out of the box with a tiny little app that comes with the OS instead of a piece of bloatware. And yes, it IS bloat. Anyone who denies it just doesn't know what bloat is.

It's mental.

This is only from Illustrator:

Who the fuck would want Adobe Media Player ?

 

[Pseudo_Sam]

Macbook Pro's come with the matte screen by default, correct? (Best Buy, specifically. If it's relevant.)

No, they come with the glossy by default. Matte is $50 extra I believe.

 

[saelz8]

No, they come with the glossy by default. Matte is $50 extra I believe.

Didn't it used to be the other way around? Wierd. I was under the impression matte was cheaper material, and glossy was a premium feature. Guess not.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

See above.

I don't know if that makes it better or not. the mac benefits from lack of volume, from what I can tell. that's fine with me.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Didn't it used to be the other way around? Wierd. I was under the impression matte was cheaper material, and glossy was a premium feature. Guess not.

No, it's always been that way. and the LED-backlit matte is a MUCH better screen. proper colors, no glare, no black/white crush. glossy is for suckers.

 

[Particle Physicist]

Don't you see how this format doesn't lend itself to "which platform is more vulnerable" at all? It lends itself to "which operating system's vulnerability can be taken advantage of the most quickly."

Like you said, they have all the time in the world to come up with the hack, so the objective isn't to hack the OS, it's to hack it in a way that you get control in the shortest amount of time.

So OSX hands over the keys faster than Windows, but apparently is much better at hiding those keys? That's a valid observation, at least.

The skill of the hacker is also another variable.. it could very well be that the Safari/OS X hacker is just more skilled than the other hackers.

 

[luoapp]

So OSX hands over the keys faster than Windows, but apparently is much better at hiding those keys? That's a valid observation, at least.

It's more like they ( hackers) haven't bothered enough to take the key, when there are other master keys to open more doors.

The skill of the hacker is also another variable.. it could very well be that the Safari/OS X hacker is just more skilled than the other hackers.

notsureifserious.gif Really?Really?:lol

 

[Jasoco]

I don't believe that for a second. I'm sure there are plenty of hackers out there who have gladly spent time trying to hack into OS X the same way they do with Windows, if only out of spite just to shove it in Mac users faces. So why haven't we seen the same problems cropping up with OS X? Bingo.

 

[luoapp]

I don't believe that for a second. I'm sure there are plenty of hackers out there who have gladly spent time trying to hack into OS X the same way they do with Windows, if only out of spite just to shove it in Mac users faces. So why haven't we seen the same problems cropping up with OS X? Bingo.

You surely don't understand the value of a viable exploit these days.

 

[Particle Physicist]

notsureifserious.gif Really?Really?:lol

I'm not exactly sure how this specific competition is set up........ but isn't that the point of competitions in general? Prove that you are the best at (fill in theme of competition here), and win some cash?

 

[scorcho]

edit: nevermind

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

Mac virus argument again? I just find it funny that people on the "security through obscurity" side claim that the reason why OS X practically has no virus's what-so-ever is because such few people own Macs. Yet pretty much every major software company supports Mac for software.

The amount of Macs sold have been good enough to attract Valve to make STEAM multiplatform, yet it isn't enough for hackers?

Anyway I've sold my Macbook Pro today.

Going to start saving up for an i7 iMac!

You've owned a Mac for like two days and you're already an elitist little shit.

:lol

Spoiler

Thank God someone said it.

wait, define "in 64-bit mode"? i have insomniac installed and it works fine

When I boot Snow Leopard up in 64-bit mode. Your suppose to hold "6" and "4" doing boot up but I just did this instead.

The skill of the hacker is also another variable.. it could very well be that the Safari/OS X hacker is just more skilled than the other hackers.

If it was a one time only contest thing and if it was set up a certain way this could be the case, but I doubt it is since it's been going on 4 years in a row. Unless I read something wrong.

 

[NJ Shlice]

The process of clicking and dragging a file onto another folder is such a pain in the ass for me.

You have to land the file directly on top of the destination folder for the damn thing to move the file. Too many times I think the file is dropped on top of the folder and let go of the mouse button and I see a file sitting right next to or behind the folder. WTF. They need to increase the folder area that will accept a dropped icon.

 

[mrkgoo]

The process of clicking and dragging a file onto another folder is such a pain in the ass for me.

You have to land the file directly on top of the destination folder for the damn thing to move the file. Too many times I think the file is dropped on top of the folder and let go of the mouse button and I see a file sitting right next to or behind the folder. WTF. They need to increase the folder area that will accept a dropped icon.

I love spring loaded folders so much, I've turned the delay right down. Pretty much just hovering over a folder for a second will open it and act as a visual cue. I don't really get much of a chance to drop onto an icon anymore.

 

[CAVE343]

I love spring loaded folders so much, I've turned the delay right down. Pretty much just hovering over a folder for a second will open it and act as a visual cue. I don't really get much of a chance to drop onto an icon anymore.

How do you turn the delay down? Its pretty slow right now on my system

 

[mescalineeyes]

How do you turn the delay down? Its pretty slow right now on my system

finder, preferences, general, at the very bottom

 

[travisbickle]

Anyone use automator?

I use it to convert pdf to rtf. Any other helpful actions?

 

[CAVE343]

finder, preferences, general, at the very bottom

Thanks! I was looking in the system preferences

 

[Chao]

finder, preferences, general, at the very bottom

Thanks a lot, now it's working properly.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

I realize every mac thread on this forum has to be trolled but can you talk about which one sucks more in some other thread? This thread is for helping learning how to use os x and neat features people don't know about. Not trying to troll about what OS is better. FFS.

finder, preferences, general, at the very bottom

Wow, that's sweet. I'll have to switch mine too. The only thing I hate about moving files is when finder seems to hate having 2 windows of it open so they can be side by side and just changes what one folder is open instead. And while I remember, people said there is a way to have the file path at the bottom clickable right? Like they have in Windows 7.

 

[NJ Shlice]

I love spring loaded folders so much, I've turned the delay right down. Pretty much just hovering over a folder for a second will open it and act as a visual cue. I don't really get much of a chance to drop onto an icon anymore.

But I don't want the folder to open, I just want to drop a file on top of the folder icon so it can place the file in the folder

 

[mescalineeyes]

Wow, that's sweet. I'll have to switch mine too. The only thing I hate about moving files is when finder seems to hate having 2 windows of it open so they can be side by side and just changes what one folder is open instead. And while I remember, people said there is a way to have the file path at the bottom clickable right? Like they have in Windows 7.

yessir; like so:

except, of course, for you it should say show path bar :lol

(if you meant to ask why it is not clickable, it always is, except, well, it's DOUBLE-clickable)

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

yessir; like so:

except, of course, for you it should say show path bar :lol

(if you meant to ask why it is not clickable, it always is, except, well, it's DOUBLE-clickable)

Ah, that's the problem, I wasn't double clicking. I've had the path there since I got it but it annoyed me I couldn't click in that path to go to that folder. I didn't realize it was a double instead of single click.

 

[mescalineeyes]

if stuff doesn't seem to work just spam that shit, that's my official instructions.

 

[Mecha_Infantry]

The process of clicking and dragging a file onto another folder is such a pain in the ass for me.

You have to land the file directly on top of the destination folder for the damn thing to move the file. Too many times I think the file is dropped on top of the folder and let go of the mouse button and I see a file sitting right next to or behind the folder. WTF. They need to increase the folder area that will accept a dropped icon.

lol yeah I know

Many a time I've dropped files into the outer folder rather than the target folder...

What is also annoying is the fact I pretty much sometimes have to use all the folder views. None of them are perfect.

One thing also that gets on my nerves. Sometimes I accidentally press a key combo when I'm trying to copy files and it makes all my folder open. Basically if I am in the folder view with the downward or right facing arrows, if I do this combo, all the folder get the down arrows and stay open.

How can I reverse this?

edit* how do I get the file/folder location at the bottom of a window like that screen shot above?

 

[mescalineeyes]

edit* how do I get the file/folder location at the bottom of a window like that screen shot above?

Finder -> View -> Show Path Bar