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[DarkFlow]

Build PC, put hackintosh on it. Best of both worlds!

 

[diggmcbadass]

If someone want to buy a computer based on build quality, HP Elitebook can't really be beat. On perceived quality,i.e resell value, macs are probably better.

 

[Chance Hale]

...half that post was about Thinkpads bro.

Dell business laptops are similarly high quality and worth the extra cost, not so much the rest of their lineup.

I haven't had much experience with Thinkpads outside of remembering the red middle dot but what's your point? If anything it just goes along with what I was saying, that there are perfectly legitimate Windows laptops that are high quality. Obviously there are junkers but that comes with not being the only hardware manufacturer.

It matters when every machine after your first is $700 cheaper because you can still sell a 4-year-old model for a great price.

Also, not everyone measures value in performance per dollar. That might be your preference, but that's just one metric out of many.

Where are 4 year old macbooks sold for 700 dollars? 3/400 seems to be the going rate on ebay. And I doubt those were cheap when purchased.

 

[Deleted member 12837]

I haven't had much experience with Thinkpads outside of remembering the red middle dot but what's your point? If anything it just goes along with what I was saying, that there are perfectly legitimate Windows laptops that are high quality. Obviously there are junkers but that comes with not being the only hardware manufacturer.



Where are 4 year old macbooks sold for 700 dollars? 3/400 seems to be the going rate on ebay. And I doubt those were cheap when purchased.

You pay a premium for Thinkpads just like you do with Macs.

I don't use eBay so I can't comment on that. In my experience, I've sold my previous Apple laptops for around 30-50% of the original cost after 3-4 years of use.

 

[Chance Hale]

Right... And they tend to cost as much as or more than equivalent macs, and even retain some drawbacks compared to macs like 720p displays.

The 2000 dollar macbook pro doesn't even have a discrete graphics card. You have to pay 2500 for that which gets you a 750M. On the otherhand the Lenavo I'm looking at has better hardware at 1200. Not obviously that's not including an ssd or a 2560x1440 screen but acting like the Apple mark up isn't real is absurd.

Edit: Edit, not a Thinkpad. But still, there are obviously manufacturers offering much more bang for your buck.

 

[Water]

The thing is, the only real reason for them to have a new desktop model that doesn't isn't already accommodated by their current products is gaming. And Apple has never given a shit about Mac gaming.

They don't offer high CPU performance at a reasonable price, nor high GPU performance at any price; especially their Nvidia GPU offering is lacking. CPU & GPU perf isn't just a concern for gamers. Like I just finished explaining, their storage options on desktops are bad and terribly overpriced unless you really want to pay more than double the usual SSD prices to get a somewhat faster SSD. If you are some kind of media person who'd like to have a couple of 4TB hard drives in their computer, tough luck. And they offer no other kind of internal expandability on anything either, so if you need more hardware functionality, hope you like the "Jony Ive" aesthetic of having your desk filled with wires and boxes.

In short, an Apple headless desktop without ridiculously priced workstation components, a desktop processor up to 4790K, up to 780 Ti graphics, user-accessible hard drive bays (or any combination of these things) would be of interest to far more people than gamers. Mini is a bare minimum performance system optimized for size; iMac is an all-in-one system optimized to look good on an executive desk while giving the finger to both performance and ergonomics; Mac Pro is a good deal for all five people whose primary interest in a Mac is that it has two mediocre-speed Radeons with lots of VRAM, are prepared to pay $4k minimum, and still want zero internal expandability.

 

[Chance Hale]

I'm not saying it isn't real! Thinkpads are marked up as well. And which Lenovo is it? Almost none of the Thinkpads support dedicated graphics at all.

I'm still not sure what you're trying to prove. I've never used thinkpads outside of school and wouldn't recommend them as I know very little about them. If they mark up products like Apple does then that's unfortunate. There are many who don't.

 

[Deleted member 12837]

The 2000 dollar macbook pro doesn't even have a discrete graphics card. You have to pay 2500 for that which gets you a 750M. On the otherhand the Lenavo I'm looking at has better hardware at 1200. Not obviously that's not including an ssd or a 2560x1440 screen but acting like the Apple mark up isn't real is absurd.

Edit: Edit, not a Thinkpad. But still, there are obviously manufacturers offering much more bang for your buck.

But size and weight, durability, battery life, a usable trackpad, and resale value are far more important to me than a graphics card. I wouldn't even pay $100 extra for a discrete card, and that totally ignores how much it would affect battery life.

Same goes for an extra 1 Ghz or whatever.

 

[Chance Hale]

But size and weight, durability, battery life, a usable trackpad, and resale value are far more important to me than a graphics card. I wouldn't even pay $100 extra for a discrete card, and that totally ignores how much it would affect battery life.

Well, if you're happy to pay a 1000 dollar premium for what is surely the only laptop to weight less than 20 pounds, last more than 30 minutes, and sell for more than 5 dollars than all the more power to you.

 

[Deleted member 12837]

Well, if you're happy to pay a 1000 dollar premium for what is surely the only laptop to weight less than 20 pounds, last more than 30 minutes, and sell for more than 5 dollars than all the more power to you.

MacBook Airs are like $1100-1300 dude. Not gonna find a $300 comparable laptop lol.

Edit: and aren't the baseline MBPs like $1600? About to take off on a plane and on mobile so I can't quickly check.

 

[Chance Hale]

And do those who don't offer the build quality of Macbooks, Thinkpads, Elitebooks, Dell business laptops, Asus business laptops?

Comparing specs doesn't tell the whole story. Macs are expensive but they're either slightly ahead or right in line with competing Windows machines in the same build quality tier. You already picked out some random consumer Lenovo laptop as competitive. That's a notoriously dismal laptop line.

Looked up several reviews and they all seem pretty positive. Certainly not a "notoriously dismal" line.

MacBook Airs are like $1100-1300 dude. Not gonna find a $300 comparable laptop lol.

Edit: and aren't the baseline MBPs like $1600? About to take off on a plane and on mobile so I can't quickly check.

I was talking about the Pros, and the baseline is $1900 for a 15 inch. The first option that offers discrete graphics is $2600 going by Apple's website and that's only a 750M which is a pretty poor card. Which was the crux of my 1000 dollar premium comment.

Of course this is all really pointless. Shouldn't have started a conversation about all of this in the first place as the OP made up his mind long ago. Apple make great hardware, but it's just not worth the heinous mark ups. And the example I listed above is heinous.

 

[collige]

They don't offer high CPU performance at a reasonable price, nor high GPU performance at any price; especially their Nvidia GPU offering is lacking. CPU & GPU perf isn't just a concern for gamers. Like I just finished explaining, their storage options on desktops are bad and terribly overpriced unless you really want to pay more than double the usual SSD prices to get a somewhat faster SSD. If you are some kind of media person who'd like to have a couple of 4TB hard drives in their computer, tough luck. And they offer no other kind of internal expandability on anything either, so if you need more hardware functionality, hope you like the "Jony Ive" aesthetic of having your desk filled with wires and boxes.

In short, an Apple headless desktop without ridiculously priced workstation components, a desktop processor up to 4790K, up to 780 Ti graphics, user-accessible hard drive bays (or any combination of these things) would be of interest to far more people than gamers. Mini is a bare minimum performance system optimized for size; iMac is an all-in-one system optimized to look good on an executive desk while giving the finger to both performance and ergonomics; Mac Pro is a good deal for all five people whose primary interest in a Mac is that it has two mediocre-speed Radeons with lots of VRAM, are prepared to pay $4k minimum, and still want zero internal expandability.

I see your point. But the idea you're describing is basically a normal tower with an Apple logo slapped on. Why not just build your own if that's your goal?

 

[Deleted member 12837]

Looked up several reviews and they all seem pretty positive. Certainly not a "notoriously dismal" line.


I was talking about the Pros, and yeah the baseline is $1600. The first option that offers discrete graphics is $2600 going by Apple's website and that's only a 750M which is a pretty poor card. Which was the crux of my 1000 dollar premium comment.

If having a discrete graphics card in your laptop is important to you, a Mac isn't for you. I write software. If I wanted to game or do heavy video editing, I'd buy a desktop. I've never understood the need for a beefy laptop, but more power to you if that's your thing. Just know that Apple never really has and probably never will go after that market, so yes you're better off with a PC in that case for a much better value.

 

[Chance Hale]

If having a discrete graphics card in your laptop is important to you, a Mac isn't for you. I write software. If I wanted to game or do heavy video editing, I'd buy a desktop. I've never understood the need for a beefy laptop, but more power to you if that's your thing. Just know that Apple never really has and probably never will go after that market, so yes you're better off with a PC in that case for a much better value.

It's not just the graphics card, but everything else as well but oh well. They're well made laptops and obviously have found their market.

 

[Deleted member 12837]

It's not just the graphics card, but everything else as well but oh well. They're well made laptops and obviously have found their market.

It doesn't really change my statement. If you want a beefy processor, discrete graphics card, tons of RAM, etc in your laptop, get a PC.

None of that interests me (and apparently a lot of consumers) at all in a laptop. You edited your post above to mention the 15" model, which I wouldn't even consider (too big).

I understand what you're saying and can see your angle. I used to value those things too, actually. You don't seem to understand that there's value in things other than raw performance, though.

 

[Chance Hale]

It doesn't really change my statement. If you want a beefy processor, discrete graphics card, tons of RAM, etc in your laptop, get a PC.

None of that interests me (and apparently a lot of consumers) at all in a laptop. You edited your post above to mention the 15" model, which I wouldn't even consider (too big).

I understand what you're saying and can see your angle. I used to value those things too, actually. You don't seem to understand that there's value in things other than raw performance, though.

I do understand, it's a status symbol. But as someone who had a Macbook Pro for 4 years they really aren't all that special. And for all their wonderful build quality I had the screen connector fail, a hard drive die, and so on. Trackpad never did stop feeling incredible though!

 

[Deleted member 12837]

I do understand, it's a status symbol. But as someone who had a Macbook Pro for 4 years they really aren't all that special.

Jesus, if you honest believe it's just a status symbol, you clearly don't understand at all.

Are we all in middle school again? What do grown-ass men have to prove by making tech purchasing decisions based on status? I need my computer to make a living, do you honestly believe I would make a decision like that based on vanity? Come on, now you're just trolling.

 

[leng jai]

I do understand, it's a status symbol. But as someone who had a Macbook Pro for 4 years they really aren't all that special. And for all their wonderful build quality I had the screen connector fail, a hard drive die, and so on. Trackpad never did stop feeling incredible though!

Your bias is incredible.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Apple make great hardware, but it's just not worth the heinous mark ups.

You're not into letting people make up their own minds on this.

I do understand, it's a status symbol.

Oof.

 

[Chance Hale]

Jesus, if you honest believe it's just a status symbol, you clearly don't understand at all.

Are we all in middle school again? What do grown-ass men have to prove by making tech purchasing decisions based on status? I need my computer to make a living, do you honestly believe I would make a decision like that based on vanity? Come on, now you're just trolling.

You're right, it was a dumb comment. Stressful day and I apologize.

Your bias is incredible.

I'm not biased, as someone who has used macs all throughout grade school(computer labs), and had a macbook pro for 4 years(2008 model, so obviously preretina) I really find the love for them hard to understand. Of course I haven't made anyone think otherwise and only made myself look like a dick so I should probably stop. Enjoy!

 

[CrudeDiatribe]

Random question...if you buy a game for Mac on Steam do you also get to Windows copy?

Almost always. The only exception I can think of is Call of Duty: Black Ops that had a special "Mac edition" on Steam. The OS icons under a title next to "STEAMPLAY™" will tell you what platforms a particular purchase will work on, should you ever get around to it.

I use a used Mac Pro with an unflashed PC NVidia graphics card. Works great.

Who wants a desktop in 2014?

I love mine.

Orthogonal to the physical handling of the windows is the question whether to be document-centric (Windows) or app-centric (OS X), and in this I think Windows is fundamentally in the right.

I think with the exception of single-window apps on the Mac, the Mac OS since System 6 days was designed for working with multiple documents on the screen at a time. Every Mac user I watch work has a myriad of windows on screen and overlaid in a seemingly chaotic mix, akin to a desk. I've never found Windows to work this way, instead favouring a single full-screen application (or more usefully a pair of them in Windows 7 & 8). I think the window-managers on Linux that support tiling are nice, and better than Windows, but they don't feel like 'me'.

 

[The Real Abed]

MacBookPro running Parallels. Couldn't recommend this enough.

Best of both worlds and with Parallels, there's integration between the two OS' for the features that make sense.

This is my recommendation. If you want to take it further, install Windows into BootCamp (I think you need 8 now though) and use Parallels when booted into OS X to use the same partition. Then have the ability to play all your normal games.

For me, on my top of the line Retina MacBook Pro 15" with the dGPU, I only have Parallels right now and use it to play Spelunky or some older 3D games. (It runs Need For Speed: Hot Pursuit 2010 really well amazingly.)

I don't even run virus software on the Windows VM because I never use the actual internet on it. Since Parallels lets me just move stuff between Windows and OS X easily. I can keep myself safe if I need to use the less safe sites, and keep Windows from getting hurt.

 

[diggmcbadass]

Going on reputation this is probably true. I haven't used an Elitebook personally, but other major business class lines are very good. And again... You have to pay for it, and you're not getting an amazing trackpad out of the deal unless they work wonders with custom drivers/hardware.

When I say build quality, I am talking exclusively about how often they break and how much abuse they can handle. The user experience of the track pad isn't really a factor since people in the professional setting I am working in mostly are using docking stations connected to mice 90% of the time anyway. Having a marked leafder usable track pad is nice, but reliability is ultimately more important. Price between a macbook and an elitebook in that regard aren't that different, but I know that the latter is built to handle tougher environments than the mac.

I realize my requirements aren't universal, but my preferences tend to be either cheap hardware or extremely reliable hardware depending on personal preference or professional preference. There are different computers fitting those extremes, but Macs tend to be somewhere in the middle costing too much to be cheap/performance or not robust enough to be expensive/reliable.

 

[Filaipus]

• I plan to use it for everyday things -> internet, video, photo-editing, light gaming (I plan to install Windows on it as well), productivity software (I own Office for Windows and Office Mac)

Thanks again!

You say you are trying to choose yet it seems you already made your mind. Go for a Mac.

Also, if you get lots of viruses on windows it is because you actually have no idea how to use it properly.
I really see no advantages on a MAC except some Apple programs for me at least.

 

[Water]

I see your point. But the idea you're describing is basically a normal tower with an Apple logo slapped on. Why not just build your own if that's your goal?

Naturally I have, and I'm going to do it again. But I'd rather Apple wanted to take my money, and offered me something like that with officially supported OS X (I'm not interested in running an operating system on an unsupported HW platform where I have to worry about every update) and perhaps used some of their undeniably skilled hardware engineers to smooth out the cooling and overall form factor. The fact Apple hasn't offered any kind of acceptable desktop for my purposes in a decade, and also the fact they are offering no laptop that would suffice for my current day job below the 2700 euro price point, is really pushing me to consider making the effort to move out of OS X altogether - maybe into just Windows, or maybe Windows plus Linux running in a VM. I have been cool with paying Apple a premium for equivalent hardware just for the OS X user experience, but when the deal they are offering on the desktop is a huge pricetag and terrible hardware selection, bad performance and ergonomics, no sale. For the last few iterations of OS X they have seemed to be fucking up the user experience on software as well, dumbing it down for incoming iOS users or something.

 

[collige]

Naturally I have, and I'm going to do it again. But I'd rather Apple wanted to take my money, and offered me something like that with officially supported OS X (I'm not interested in running an operating system on an unsupported HW platform where I have to worry about every update) and perhaps used some of their undeniably skilled hardware engineers to smooth out the cooling and overall form factor. The fact Apple hasn't offered any kind of acceptable desktop for my purposes in a decade, and also the fact they are offering no laptop that would suffice for my current day job below the 2700 euro price point, is really pushing me to consider making the effort to move out of OS X altogether - maybe into just Windows, or maybe Windows plus Linux running in a VM. I have been cool with paying Apple a premium for equivalent hardware just for the OS X user experience, but when the deal they are offering on the desktop is a huge pricetag and terrible hardware selection, bad performance and ergonomics, no sale. For the last few iterations of OS X they have seemed to be fucking up the user experience on software as well, dumbing it down for incoming iOS users or something.

To me, offering a fully moddable tower not only goes against Apple's general philosophy but would also require Apple to either publish a list of supported components or have drivers out the ass for a given graphics card. It would be a bit of a logistical nightmare for a company that prides itself on the user friendliness of their ecosystem as well as their customer support.

I dunno how much research you've done into Hackintoshes, but speaking from my personal experience, the reports of instability with new system updates has been far overblown. I've only ever had to reinstall one driver after an update and overall I've had less problems with my peripherals (audio interface, mouse, keyboard) than I have on Windows. It's really been a painless experience. The only real downside is that you're essentially locked into the Intel + Nvidia combo.

On the OS level, what user experience mistakes are you referring to? Apart from the loss of Rosetta and fucking up Spaces in favor of Mission Control, I haven't experienced any negative changes to my workflow since I started using OSX with Leopard. There are a ton of useless new features though.

 

[Water]

I think with the exception of single-window apps on the Mac, the Mac OS since System 6 days was designed for working with multiple documents on the screen at a time. Every Mac user I watch work has a myriad of windows on screen and overlaid in a seemingly chaotic mix, akin to a desk. I've never found Windows to work this way, instead favouring a single full-screen application (or more usefully a pair of them in Windows 7 & 8). I think the window-managers on Linux that support tiling are nice, and better than Windows, but they don't feel like 'me'.

I don't see why you couldn't set up your windows in a chaotic mess equally easily on Windows and on OS X, if that's what you want. I manually tile with keyboard shortcuts on both systems, then readjust splits and positions manually if I need to. But there's no real reason the window manager should allow any of the problems (like windows hiding each other via overlapping) which cause the need to do this work. Window locating, positioning and adjusting is not productive for the user and the system should make sure there's as little need for it as possible. A real tiling window manager doesn't just "support" tiling; tiling is the only way windows can exist in it. This naturally leads to new models of managing the tiles and tile configurations, and should also lead to tiles/windows communicating sets of size preferences to the windowing system to let it do good adjustments. Many elements like a traditional "desktop" that holds files/icons and a background picture would cease to exist in their current form - what purpose does such a thing have in a world without overlapping, or rather, why should it be a special case rather than a normal file folder shown in a tile?

 

[BumRush]

Also, if you get lots of viruses on windows it is because you actually have no idea how to use it properly.

Haha thanks, you're like the 20th person in this thread that's told me that because a PC I've used has gotten Malware / Virus I need to take lessons in how to use a computer...

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Haha thanks, you're like the 20th person in this thread that's told me that because a PC I've used has gotten Malware / Virus I need to take lessons in how to use a computer...

It's such a lazy and misdirected argument, too. Shouldn't the pressure be on Microsoft and browser makers instead?

 

[Shao Kahn on the Lawn]

It's such a lazy and misdirected argument, too. Shouldn't the pressure be on Microsoft and browser makers instead?

The majority of users don't make any effort to look into even the most basic best practices of computing. They run all actions as admin, they disable UAC, they don't keep the software on their machines up to date, they open attachments from users they don't know within emails that weren't solicited...

Telling people to move to another platform to escape their lack of knowledge is a temporary solution at best and doesn't address the real problem. Neither OSX or Linux distros are wholly immune from exploits: as their userbase grows, so too will the interest in exploiting them. The recommendation also creates a false sense of security ("The Mac is where I was told to go to get away bad computer things. I don't have to worry about them anymore.")

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Neither OSX or Linux distros are wholly immune from exploits: as their userbase grows, so too will the interest in exploiting them.

TBH, people have been saying this same shit about OSX and it's vulnerability-laden future for about 15 years. I've never felt safer on OSX than I do right now.

 

[Shao Kahn on the Lawn]

TBH, people have been saying this same shit about OSX and it's vulnerability-laden future for about 15 years. I've never felt safer on OSX than I do right now.

Any OS written by man is exploitable. That's just a fact.

 

[Water]

To me, offering a fully moddable tower not only goes against Apple's general philosophy but would also require Apple to either publish a list of supported components or have drivers out the ass for a given graphics card. It would be a bit of a logistical nightmare for a company that prides itself on the user friendliness of their ecosystem as well as their customer support.

I didn't say anything about "fully moddable" though, or "PCIe cards". Just an option for a good desktop CPU, an option for a good desktop GPU, easy access to hard drives, that kind of thing. I guess I'd prefer to have the GPU on a standard card, but I'd accept a nonstandard GPU if that achieved significant benefits without too many drawbacks. My main concern with nonstandard GPU form factor would not be upgrading my particular machine, which I generally don't do anyway, but that it would drive up the cost of the machine and cause new GPU releases to take ages until they are available as BTO for new machines, and that the only functional outcome would be Ive-wankery like shaving 0.5" out of some corner of an already ultra-compact case.

I dunno how much research you've done into Hackintoshes, but speaking from my personal experience, the reports of instability with new system updates has been far overblown. I've only ever had to reinstall one driver after an update and overall I've had less problems with my peripherals (audio interface, mouse, keyboard) than I have on Windows. It's really been a painless experience. The only real downside is that you're essentially locked into the Intel + Nvidia combo.

I haven't tried Hackintoshes. I just don't like tinkering with critical infrastructure, got other things to do.

On the OS level, what user experience mistakes are you referring to? Apart from the loss of Rosetta and fucking up Spaces in favor of Mission Control, I haven't experienced any negative changes to my workflow since I started using OSX with Leopard. There are a ton of useless new features though.

I'm not very bothered with the ton of useless features since I can just ignore them, other than that their existence adds complication and inertia that hinders far-ranging and positive UI improvements. I think the train of uselessness started with Dashboard in 10.4. Spaces and Mission Control were bad but likewise mercifully optional (although again I really would have wanted Apple to attack the problem of window/virtual workspace/multi-display control but thoroughly instead of releasing these halfhearted, confused, optional checkbox features). The new Fullscreen Mode, though, is pure shit. It even managed to screw up some applications that previously had good built-in fullscreen modes since some of them have ditched their own to migrate to the system mode; I'm glad the good apps seem to recognize the users don't want that, and at least give an option for the old behavior. One other thing I remember is that they removed a (hidden) OS setting around 10.6 which was previously capable of disabling mouse acceleration, thus messing up mouse feel ever after on OS X. I've been almost 100% on laptop trackpad and laptop screen so I don't have to care about it, but man I'd be pissed about that if I ran a Mac desktop or spent long periods of time with the laptop docked into large desktop displays and peripherals. Of course this should not only exist but be a normal, GUI-visible setting.

 

[Macmanus]

It's such a lazy and misdirected argument, too. Shouldn't the pressure be on Microsoft and browser makers instead?

Microsoft provides free malware protection with their OS compatible with Windows XP and beyond - an operating system that launched in 2001.

So that's probably one of the reasons people are confused that not getting a virus is still a bullet point. You have to pretty much try at this point. Despite what some may have been lead to believe, their most likely isn't a "horny college slut in your local area" that wants to sleep with you immediately.

 

[20cent]

cliché, but if you don't care about PC gaming, no reason to get a PC over a Mac imo.

 

[DarkFlow]

I haven't tried Hackintoshes. I just don't like tinkering with critical infrastructure, got other things to do.

There's really nothing to tinker with. I'm using a Hackintosh right now to type this. Updates a snap, I even did one right now and had to do nothing other then install it.

Took a whole 14 mins to go from 10.9.2 to 10.9.3. I've updated this install all the way from Gold Master to 10.9.3 with zero issue, Everything works as it should.

 

[20cent]

There's really nothing to tinker with. I'm using a Hackintosh right now to type this. Updates a snap, I even did one right now from and had to do nothing other then install it.



Took a whole 14 mins to go from 10.9.2 to 10.9.3.

Also using a hackintosh since years, but it can be tricky and discouraging to a lot of people who are not familiar with the thing or who don't have time to dig forums trying to find someone who might had the same issue with kexts. Even following hackintosh "buying guides" is not really a guaranteed success.

 

[collige]

I didn't say anything about "fully moddable" though, or "PCIe cards". Just an option for a good desktop CPU, an option for a good desktop GPU, easy access to hard drives, that kind of thing. I guess I'd prefer to have the GPU on a standard card, but I'd accept a nonstandard GPU if that achieved significant benefits without too many drawbacks. My main concern with nonstandard GPU form factor would not be upgrading my particular machine, which I generally don't do anyway, but that it would drive up the cost of the machine and cause new GPU releases to take ages until they are available as BTO for new machines, and that the only functional outcome would be Ive-wankery like shaving 0.5" out of some corner of an already ultra-compact case.

I haven't tried Hackintoshes. I just don't like tinkering with critical infrastructure, got other things to do.
I'm not very bothered with the ton of useless features since I can just ignore them, other than that their existence adds complication and inertia that hinders far-ranging and positive UI improvements. I think the train of uselessness started with Dashboard in 10.4. Spaces and Mission Control were bad but likewise mercifully optional (although again I really would have wanted Apple to attack the problem of window/virtual workspace/multi-display control but thoroughly instead of releasing these halfhearted, confused, optional checkbox features). The new Fullscreen Mode, though, is pure shit. It even managed to screw up some applications that previously had good built-in fullscreen modes since some of them have ditched their own to migrate to the system mode; I'm glad the good apps seem to recognize the users don't want that, and at least give an option for the old behavior. One other thing I remember is that they removed a (hidden) OS setting around 10.6 which was previously capable of disabling mouse acceleration, thus messing up mouse feel ever after on OS X. I've been almost 100% on laptop trackpad and laptop screen so I don't have to care about it, but man I'd be pissed about that if I ran a Mac desktop or spent long periods of time with the laptop docked into large desktop displays and peripherals. Of course this should not only exist but be a normal, GUI-visible setting.

For me, the entire Hackintosh setup added maybe 2 hours at most to the setup of my computer and I've been set since then. Just something to consider for your next rig.
There's also 3rd party app that can disable mouse acceleration called SmoothMouse.i You might want to look into it.

As far as Spaces goes, I was never a heavy virtual workspace user, but I know from several people that the old Spaces offered a lot in terms of functionality with global hotkeys, a consistent grid layout for workspaces, and the ability to permanent assign applications to different workspaces. All of that that gutted in Lion for some reason. Dashboard was/is kind of useful for me just to have iStat Pro and the dictionary there, but yeah it is pretty lame. Not nearly as bad as launchpad though.

 

[DarkFlow]

For me, the entire Hackintosh setup added maybe 2 hours at most to the setup of my computer and I've been set since then. Just something to consider for your next rig.
There's also 3rd party app that can disable mouse acceleration called SmoothMouse.i You might want to look into it.

As far as Spaces goes, I was never a heavy virtual workspace user, but I know from several people that the old Spaces offered a lot in terms of functionality with global hotkeys, a consistent grid layout for workspaces, and the ability to permanent assign applications to different workspaces. All of that that gutted in Lion for some reason. Dashboard was/is kind of useful for me just to have iStat Pro and the dictionary there, but yeah it is pretty lame. Not nearly as bad as launchpad though.

Damn, thanks for telling me about smoothmouse. That shit drives me insane on OSX, it's either super slow, or goes alway the way to end.

 

[Water]

There's also 3rd party app that can disable mouse acceleration called SmoothMouse.i You might want to look into it.

As far as Spaces goes, I was never a heavy virtual workspace user, but I know from several people that the old Spaces offered a lot in terms of functionality with global hotkeys, a consistent grid layout for workspaces, and the ability to permanent assign applications to different workspaces. All of that that gutted in Lion for some reason.

I made a real effort to figure out Spaces, configure and use it, but it was unusable for me. I don't remember the specifics, but I remember it basically breaking the normal cmd-tab / cmd-` logic, causing unpredictable navigation depending on what's open in other spaces and so on. I don't mean there were implementation bugs, I mean the design was fundamentally screwed up, didn't fit with the existing stuff that actually worked, and didn't provide replacements for the existing stuff. I don't recall if Spaces also had slow transition animations that could not be disabled; that's one of the main reasons I find the current Fullscreen Mode completely unusable.

I'll try Smoothmouse if my Mac ends up in a desktop setup. I have to say it's an awful showing from Apple that 3rd party utilities have to (try to) fix such basic stuff as adjusting mouse acceleration. They have had literally more than a decade to fix this - and the only thing they ever did was to remove the hidden Terminal-based setting that was able to at least mostly disable the acceleration, albeit at the cost of slowing the linear pointer movement to a crawl, from which I was able to get decent behavior because I had an ultra-high DPI mouse and could set it to max on hardware. A long time back I tested some 3rd party tools/utilities that claimed to remove acceleration, but none of them were able to actually do it back then.

 

[FallingEdge]

Our work uses MacBooks and Ihave fully converted. I understand why they cost as much as they do. The build quality on these machines are incredible and I plan to get a MacBook during the next refresh.

 

[teh_pwn]

I'm sick of viruses on my PC

I'm sure you have already been tar and feathered, but seriously what? The last time I had a virus was because I was doing something very explicitly risky, and that was 6 years ago.

For desktop, I would go PC for basically anything. Photo post-processing? I'll do that at 4.6+ GHz on my overclocked PC with 32 GB of RAM and Samsung 840 Pros on Windows. For niche power user stuff, Linux. Mac...I'm just not understanding why you would confine yourself to such a limited feature and hardware set. Windows 8 is already bad enough stepping in this direction.

For mobile I can appreciate the meticulous design in Apple's hardware. Personally I would also consider Surface Pro 3, but I haven't thoroughly compared because this market doesn't lure me enough to purchase.

I'm going to have to learn OSX soon because they are a customer of my company. From what I hear Apple does not allow 3rd party hardware for build licenses so I'm guessing we'll have to awkwardly have a shelf of cylinders in the datacenter rather than proper blades in a chassis. And by learn OSX I mean entirely learn the shell, how the OS works, how to run Windows binaries within Mac and all of that stuff. Not use trackpad.

 

[DarkFlow]

Our work uses MacBooks and Ihave fully converted. I understand why they cost as much as they do. The build quality on these machines are incredible and I plan to get a MacBook during the next refresh.

That's not why they cost as much as they do. Apple loves that almighty profit margin. This is a rather old article from 2011, but even then they made close to $400 PROFIT on just one sale. HP on the other hand made a measly $52 a sale.

Here's another one saying a iPad Air cost Apple $274 to make.

 

[MrCunningham]

Choose your destiny

John Hodgman > Justin Long

 

[Rentahamster]

cliché, but if you don't care about PC gaming, no reason to get a PC over a Mac imo.

Price is one of a few.

 

[Deleted member 1235]

GAF,

I'm looking to buy a new computer and the first decision I have to make is Mac or PC. I've read quite a few articles but most (unsurprisingly) seem biased. I figured the next logical choice would be to go to an anonymous forum where bias is fundamental. Anyway, any insight that would help me make a decision would be extremely appreciated.

A couple things that might help:

• Money isn't really a factor
• I plan to use it for everyday things -> internet, video, photo-editing, light gaming (I plan to install Windows on it as well), productivity software (I own Office for Windows and Office Mac)
• I own an iPad and my wife and I both have iPhones
• I'm sick of viruses on my PC

if you really still have a problem with viruses on a PC past windows 7.... i think probably a Mac. not sure how you are managing that. leave UAC on. Demote your login account to not an admin, create seperate admin account to elevate when needed (like linux). Use an industry standard free virus scanner.

the rest comes down to preference. the 'I'll install windows on it' always confuses me. why would you do this on a Mac? I mean if you don't like their ecosystem, get a cheaper windows PC and get more bang for your buck.

iphone/ipad is pretty irrelevant, both work flawlessly with windows and all the apple stuff works on windows regards icloud and whatever.

'light gaming' sounds like you might not take a mac penalty, but if you use steam a bit, windows is the clear winner there.

My personal opinion is that OSX is a steaming pile of hot garbage next to windows, but a lot of people fall on the exact other end of that spectrum. You should really figure out where your inner fanboy sits and listen to that guy.

 

[trudderham]

Speaking of SSD drives, they really do change the entire speed of a computer.
I picked up the 15" MacBook Pro last week with the i7, 16GB RAM and 500GB SSD drive, and boy, what a difference compared to my old Mac Mini.
From a fresh boot up, Photoshop opens in about 1.5 seconds. My old Mini took about 10. When editing video in Premiere Pro I can scrub through the timeline and the preview window never skips a frame - it's buttery smooth. The Mini would jerk and take an age to update the preview window. The same goes for every other app, it's all instant, and I can leave Photoshop, Premiere, iPhoto, Safari open in the background and nothing ever slows down. It's insane. So yeah, SSDs make a massive difference.

 

[diamount]

Viruses on windows can be avoided entirely if you exercised some common sense, i.e

1. If you're installing free software, don't rush through the installation process as you will be downloading lots of useless shit.

2. Get noscript and you eliminate 99% of viruses that might infect you through subtle means, like a malicious pop-up.

3. Use sandboxie on executable files, it opens the file in a controlled environment so it cannot alter privileges or open a backdoor.

Seriously though, the amount of money you would save if you opt for a boutique laptop,.

 

[Tomodachi]

All this talk about specs is really pointless, my macbook pro (i5 2,4Ghz + Intel Iris GPU + HD) is definitely less powerful and much more expansive than my custom built pc (i5 3570k clocking 4,2Ghz + 560 Ti + SSD), yet the daily, non-gaming user experience is definitely better on my mac. So yeah, we get it, Macs are ridiculously overpriced for their specs but that is NOT what you're paying for. You're paying for the whole experience, not raw power.
Also people suggesting hackintosh like it's the obvious thing to do: it's borderline illegal and it's definitely harder than what the regular user is prone to do, why suggest it in the first place? I don't get it. We're talking about a guy who can't surf the web on windows without getting his pc infected with stuff (no offense man ).

 

[diamount]

You're paying for the whole experience, not raw power.

Need clarification for that.