Sapiens
Member
I don't see the problem going to the used or refurbished route with a mac. Being cheap is good.
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Mac vs PC - 2014
- Thread starter BumRush
- Start date
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I don't see the problem going to the used or refurbished route with a mac. Being cheap is good.
A refurbished one or a used with AppleCare but I would beware otherwise.
Year over year for a while now some of the biggest improvements have come in the mobile space.. battery life.. price/performance ratio/etc.
I really don't think it's all that logical to buy a used Apple machine in particular, as they tend to go for very near the retail price of the updated models.
The Real Abed
Perma-Junior
The only malware a Mac could get would be a Trojan. Because anything installed onto a Mac that requires any sort of access to anything would require the user to manually allow it to come in the door.
Which is why they always disguised themselves to look like Flash installers and why Adobe changed the way Flash installs. (You now get redirected to the website instead of doing the install right there in the program.)
They don't exist, but kind of do, but don't really. Because you'd have to actually take the time to blindly enter your Admin password and let it install itself instead of being like "Hmm, I don't remember asking to install something. That's very suspicious."
BUT the thing is, you can't just download a .APP from a server like you can an EXE. A .APP is actually a folder full of resources including a binary which can't be run with a double-click anyway. So in order to download a malicious .APP, you first have to download a .ZIP or a .DMG, then extract or mount the file, THEN manually double-click the .APP file inside it.
Which is the security we're talking about. If a mysterious ZIP or DMG shows up on your desktop or in your downloads folder, you're probably not going to open it up unless you know specifically that you asked for it.
Plus as another safety feature, any file you do open from the internet will pop up a warning asking if you want to open the file: "The file secrettrojan.dmg was downloaded from www.whatever.com/long/url/funnystuff.php. Are you sure you want to open it?" If you're smart you know whether you asked to download a file from that website. In most cases you're gonna just delete it and half-smile knowing that you're smarter than the bad guys.
And the last resort, on a default configured Mac, you won't be able to simply open apps downloaded from the internet. You have to download them from the App Store. And even the second security option which lets you open any APP downloaded only allows them if they're signed with an Apple certificate.
So there's three options:
The novice, which only downloads apps from the App Store and likes it. Doesn't bother with apps from websites. Always clicks the "App Store" link on a website. This option is for the people who, when on a PC, will visit any site they can willy nilly allowing anything they want to just download and install itself in the background without remorse, then comes to you for help fixing their machine because they don't know how it got so infected.
The comfortable, which will occasionally download an app from a website but doesn't just grab everything they can willy nilly, but would occasionally like to install something they can't get from the Store for whatever reason or another. In this case the app will be signed by a licensed developer, and since Mac apps pretty much require Xcode to run and a Developer certificate to prove they're legit, this is the safest for someone who wants to be able to install apps from other places.
The professional, who removes the wall for which app can run or not, but in the end still has to put their password in anyway so it's still quite safe. As long as you don't have a novice using the professional option. This one is for people who know what they're doing, want apps from anywhere they can find them, but is still smart enough to know when a DMG or ZIP was downloaded without permission and will delete it right away instead of blindly opening them up and installing the gooey nougat inside.
So bottom line, Macs are still quite safe and always will be as long as they run on a secure foundation. And you can visit any website you want without fear as long as you remember that one thing; If you didn't ask for it to be downloaded, just delete it. If you're unsure what it is, delete it. And if Flash asks you to install an update, go to adobe.com first and do it there. Okay, that was three things. Whatever.
This bares repeating. I am happy for those of you who keep your Windows install unblemished but you are not most people. Those who aren't nerds like us with time will inevitably cripple their Windows machine through normal use unless it has been set up by a knowledgable relative or friend. They don't know what "sandboxie" is and they don't care.
The Real Abed
Perma-Junior
I am reminded of that Giant Bomb "The Internet Quick Look" video which demonstrates this very problem quite well.
No, I'm talking about any rig with a compatible motherboard and Intel processor. My personal computer has a Corsair case, Gigabyte mobo, an off the shelf i7, and an EVGA GTX670. You can install OSX on some laptops too.
User Account Control has been on by default since Vista IIRC.
It is similar to how OSX handles installation of software.
The problem is people continue to agree to have software installed, and continue to not pay attention during installation. Not entirely sure how an OS is ever supposed to protect people from willfully installing malware without an extensive walled garden approach.
It is similar to how OSX handles installation of software.
The problem is people continue to agree to have software installed, and continue to not pay attention during installation. Not entirely sure how an OS is ever supposed to protect people from willfully installing malware without an extensive walled garden approach.
Chance Hale
Member
I forget "hackintosh" is a thing. If it works without issues and lets you upgrade as you will then that's pretty great.
I made a post about that on the last page...
Chance Hale
Member
2 pages ago for us pond scum who use 50 page gaf. Given that it works so well one should be even more inclined to build a desktop if they want to use osx.
No one should be that last guy. He should rather use the same system setting as the middle guy, because that gets you to pay attention to unsigned app status and possibly lets you notice a fake. When you have an unsigned app, OS X refuses to run it on double-click, but you can override the system setting by right clicking the app and choosing "Open" to get the dialog with the "run" option.
I agree. There is absolutely no reason that I can think of to completely disable Apples protections.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Couldn't recommend a Mac more for people who just want to use a computer for general use. I like Windows fine, but Mac is just a more pleasant experience, especially in laptop form.
This is especially true if you have iPhone and iPad to go along with it. The integration between the devices is top-notch and only getting better.
With that said, I won't be caught without a proper PC for gaming at home. In the not-too-distant future, this may not necessarily mean Windows, though.
This is especially true if you have iPhone and iPad to go along with it. The integration between the devices is top-notch and only getting better.
With that said, I won't be caught without a proper PC for gaming at home. In the not-too-distant future, this may not necessarily mean Windows, though.
phillipgessert
Member
What's funny is how there is absolutely nothing about the OP that would suggest he's a candidate for building his own computer, let alone horsing around with a dang Hackintosh. It's funny how some folks just can't resist chiming in with, 'no wait, there's a harder way!'
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
In my experience with folks who are hardcore in any field, they tend to underestimate just how high the barrier to entry is to whatever they are hardcore about.
Yup. They're also overzealous about dumb shit.
I use a Windows PC at home for gaming but I use a MBP at work and it's awesome. For what the OP said he wanted to do, OSX is a great option if you want to spend the cash.
phillipgessert
Member
All I needed to see was the OP has a bunch of iOS devices. Makes it kind of a no-brainer, they'll work together great. Love iCloud.
Buy a laptop with great specs (i7/12GB ram/ssd) for about the same price you'd pay for a mac, comes with windows , then all you do is install virual software, like virtualbox or VMware, and run OS X on there as well...
now you have a laptop with great specs/speed, and windows & os x.
This one even looks like a mac.
and
How to run OS X in VMware
now you have a laptop with great specs/speed, and windows & os x.
This one even looks like a mac.
and
How to run OS X in VMware
Nothing really. People talk about it like it's supernatural or something when in reality, it's just a good trackpad.
Is it perfect? No.
Is it marginally better than the trackpad on my Zenbook? Yes.
Does that justify spending hundreds of more dollars for me? No.
For the love of god don't buy that laptop. So many hardware problems I can't even...
And at the point of installing OSX alongside Windows, why not just install Linux? Less hassle.
Haha yeah some of this shit is just way over my head...
You're so wrong.
The surface has the right amount of friction.
The built in OSX software responses to it effectively.
Functionality inside of OSx trumps whatever the fuck MS is trying to with metro.
2/3/4/5 finger gestures that actually respond? Not even Windows 8 touchscreens respond this well.
I used to think the same thing about the track pad on mac, but after a week using it when I got my air. Even touch screen feels shitty (not ios obviously).
Dreams-Visions
Member
LOL. I can let some bullshit slide, but not this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtUuhZ3qxKg
I myself have over 40 gesture commands set up through BTT for my trackpad. There is absolutely nothing in the Windows world that can match OSX's support for gestures on the multitouch track pad. And yes, it alone makes a huge difference in experience. Between my 2 monitors, I have 5 different desktops that swipe through with ease and manage.
Since I switch between Win 8 and OSX constantly, I'm reminded constantly how much better general purpose computing is on OSX. For general computing, it's a difference worth paying for.
lol @ comparing any Windows PC trackpad experience to an Apple trackpad in OSX. If you didn't get to try out the BTT experience maaaaaaybe I can let this comment slide. Maybe.
There's a way to get people to side with you, this is not it. You sound like a crazy person.
Wiktor
Member
You can keep your trackpad, I will take my trackpoint. Thousands of gestures don't change the fact how much of pain in the ass is it to take hands off my keyboard whever I want to do something while typing
But then again, the superior typing experience hasn't been a priority for Macbooks in quite some time unfortunatelly.
FallingEdge
Member
Personally, I feel that the keyboard and trackpad on a MacBook is the best on any laptop. Nothing comes close. The build quality is above and beyond anything I have used.
Wiktor
Member
I find the keyboards to be average at best, especially recently. The keys are flat and the keys steps are extremely shallow. It makes sense in Macbooks Air somehow, because they're focused on thiness, but Apple even started to put the same KB into Pros for some bizzare reason, when there's plenty of space there. Plus whoever thought it was a good idea to get that sharp edge precisesly where the wrists rest should be taken behin the barn and shot
That said, I'm a spoiled Thinkpad user. Typing is 99% of what I do on a laptop. More casual users propably don't give even a tiny bit of a damn about what is most important to me
This is baby back bullshit. I'm an IT professional, but I've also used Macs as my primary home system for 20 years. And I will totally admit, though out that entire time, I've always been scraping around on the seedy underbelly of the internet. Porn sites, emulation sites, file sharing programs/websites, etc. You name it. In that entire two decades, I've had a Mac infected with a virus exactly one time: It was almost 20 years ago, in like 1995 with a virus gotten through an illicit software sharing group on AOL back in the day. Screwed up my system a bit, put a CD in with Disinfectant, ran it, fixed. I've never even seen a malware infection on Mac OS since then.
To be fair, Windows (and even IE) is a lot more secure nowadays compared to the old days. It was probably at it's worse in the early 2000's before UAC, when browser hijack>adware/malware installations were at their peak. It's not that Macs are inherently more secure (this has been proven multiple times iirc at information security conventions over the years), but the fact is there's still to this day almost no malware on OSX, especially in comparison to Windows.
Yeah but that's just like, your opinion man.
LOL.
Normal people don't use 40 different gestures. And yes Windows trackpad drivers suck.
Trackpad yes. I'm pretty sure (some) Thinkpads have equal or better keyboards.
The trackpad response is fundamentally better on OS X, and it's not the hardware. Scrolling and right-click detection (I don't use other gestures) are much better in OS X than in Windows under Bootcamp. I think Windows internals and APIs probably do not allow analog scrolling tied directly to trackpad input as well as OS X does? Or it's new and/or obscure and desktop apps don't implement it in practice? I'm sure Windows must have that on the Metro side since touch usability would be a disaster otherwise.
I like how you opted to use the "40 different gestures" of liu to argue instead of the built in gestures I was mentioning.
Good job.
The Real Abed
Perma-Junior
Oh I agree. I have mine set to the second option myself. I have never really run into an instance where I've downloaded an app that wasn't signed. They just keep it in the system for the Greybeards who don't like change and don't want "The Man" telling them what they can and cannot install on their Mac because "it's a damn computer and I should be able to install whatever I want consarnit!"
Bill S. Preston. Esq.
Member
For what it's worth, I had never used a mac up until a few months ago when I got a retina MacBook Pro. Everything about it is amazing.
That's all I can add!
That's all I can add!
Did you read the OP? Sometimes maybe...one can't?
Druz
Member
All wrong, even captain IT professional. I've handled more(likely) or at least, a better representative volume of Macs and PCs than you. The same type of malware and adware that are currently a problem with PCs are making their way onto Macs. Yes, you have to willingly install them (just like a PC). They do more than what you bargained for like install additional programs or make changes to your computer that you didn't want (just like a PC). MacKeeper, Geneio, Conduit. Macs are getting the love.
I'm the guy that has to explain to the mac user whats on their computer and how did they get it because Skunkers promised they were invincible.
The made thing I know about Windows PC's is that I have had friends in the 2000's who bought brand new machines from like say Dell that came with loads of crapware already pre-installed on their computers, and they had tons of malware easily installed on their computers with one accidental little mouse click to the point that their computer would freeze constantly and operate extremely slowly. Otherwise I am not too familiar with PC malware these days.
On the side of Mac Malware I am not an IT person but I have been using Mac's my whole life and I have never had Malware on my Mac computer. I always uninstall things like Norton etc. And I know that if you leave the default security settings on Mavericks unchanged, and you are slightly careful about not using the two button hold installation security over-ride and inputting your administrator password for just anything then you wont get Malware on your Mac. Anyone who tells you different is being misleading IMO.
The gestures are nice yes, but that still doesn't justify the apple tax or bloat for me. I use keyboard shortcuts up the wazoo anyway.
Oppo
Member
Fwiw my story would mirror skunkers. Mac use since 93. What can I say.
Here's a little history tour of Mac Malware. http://www.welivesecurity.com/2014/03/21/10-years-of-mac-os-x-malware/
So OP, cheaper iMacs it seems. Will you pull the trigger?
Irrelevant to him. The prices of the existing iMacs didn't budge. Apple just added a cheaper one with a dualcore CPU with lower clocks than the existing quadcores (so CPU performance was cut in less than half) and HD 5000 graphics. I've said for a long time that it would make sense for Apple to put out a machine like that, since the quadcores and especially Iris Pro graphics are overkill for so many users, but they've made this new machine such a spectacularly bad deal that almost no one should touch it. It still costs $1100 and has no SSD. Actually, adding SSD costs $250 whereas they charge $200 on the former low end model, making the new low end even worse than it looks at first glance.
Oh, I misunderstood the article, I thought they added a new, less powerful iMac AND price-cut the existing ones. That sucks, 1.4Ghz dual core and no SSD sounds really bad for a modern machine running Mavericks/Yosemite, even my entry-level MBP has a 2.4Ghz dual core.
I love how most of the OS X security issues has always been third party like Java or Flash.
Re: a refurbished Mac
A refurbished mac is a mac without the fancy box. It comes complete with the full warranty, and if anything else it's been more closely examined than other macs that are for sale. Just make sure you're getting it from Apple, and not some third party seller.
Of course, you could argue that opening the new box is a great experience in itself, but is that worth a couple hundred extra?
I bought my current MBP refurbished back in 2012, saved a couple hundred bucks, and have never had anything wrong with it. Aside from it coming in a brown box instead of the cool white one, and having it with half a dozen battery cycles, it has been just fine.
Ditto goes for an iPad 2 I used to own, as well as the Apple TV I bought for my parents which gets used for hours daily my retired dad.
Refurbished Apple is as good as New Apple in my experience.
A refurbished mac is a mac without the fancy box. It comes complete with the full warranty, and if anything else it's been more closely examined than other macs that are for sale. Just make sure you're getting it from Apple, and not some third party seller.
Of course, you could argue that opening the new box is a great experience in itself, but is that worth a couple hundred extra?
I bought my current MBP refurbished back in 2012, saved a couple hundred bucks, and have never had anything wrong with it. Aside from it coming in a brown box instead of the cool white one, and having it with half a dozen battery cycles, it has been just fine.
Ditto goes for an iPad 2 I used to own, as well as the Apple TV I bought for my parents which gets used for hours daily my retired dad.
Refurbished Apple is as good as New Apple in my experience.
Any other brand and I'd say stay the fuck away from refurbished sets, but Apple's are definitely a legit choice.
And nope, that's definitely a viable option. In fact, most days my RMBP is my desktop (I have it hooked up to multiple monitors. I'm even waiting for the i7 Surface Pro 3 to come out so that I can use that as a dedicated Cintiq with another monitor acting as a reference screen for painting.
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