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[Minus_Me]

This season has just started...

Bobby Kennedy still needs to be assasinated...and the student uprisings..

I am most interested to see how Megan and her dad will interact when Paris starts going nuts

I'm sure he would still care, but her father is French Canadian.

 

[TheOohChild]

lol, stan is so high

 

[j_k_redtail]

(snip) Wrong thread

 

[AlphaSnake]

Dawn is fine.

Hey ma...lemme holla, gurrrrl.

smashitandbang.gif

 

[lazybones18]

Don and Bobby go see Planet of the Apes....The Musical

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Don and Bobby go see Planet of the Apes....The Musical

Dr Zaius Dr Zauis...

 

[Frustrated_me]

So the scene with Dawn in Peggy's office, did i miss something, is Dawn a spy? Whats going on?

Ahahahahahaaa!! Dying here!!!!

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Anyone has the exact quote of what Don said in the end? Damn that shit was powerful.

 

[Niraj]

Anyone has the exact quote of what Don said in the end? Damn that shit was powerful.

"I only ever wanted to be the man who loves children. But from the moment they're born...that baby comes out, and you act proud and excited, hand out cigars. But you don't feel anything. Especially if you had a...difficult childhood. You want to love them, but you...don't. And the fact that you're...faking that feeling makes you wonder if your own father had the same problem. Then one day they get older, and you see them do something...and you feel...that feeling that you were pretending to have. And it feels like your heart is going to explode."

That might be a bit off, I'm transcribing without captions but yeah, that was fantastic.

 

[Salvor.Hardin]

Pete's indignation at what he perceives to be racism often feels so forced and unnatural. I wish the writers didn't wax it on as thick as they do.

 

[Cornballer]

- Jon Hamm on The Daily Show last night

 

[BertramCooper]

Pete's indignation at what he perceives to be racism often feels so forced and unnatural. I wish the writers didn't wax it on as thick as they do.

"Forced" and "unnatural" are both pretty apt descriptors of Pete's personality.

 

[Salvor.Hardin]

"Forced" and "unnatural" are both pretty apt descriptors of Pete's personality.

I agree, but it doesn't come off as if he's being insincere. It instead feels to me to be an out-of-character moment for Pete in the few times that it has popped up.

Also, was there anything about the location of the apartment in New York that Peggy was trying to buy that someone unfamiliar with New York might not understand? They kept mentioning that it was on the East side? I understand that it's far, but was/is that location known for anything specifically?

 

[Jackben]

I got the impression it was well-to-do, white middle to upper class. Removed from the rest of New York. Abe wants to live somewhere with more culture and diversity.

 

[BertramCooper]

I agree, but it doesn't come off as if he's being insincere. It instead feels to me to be an out-of-character moment for Pete in the few times that it has popped up.

It was an extremely awkward exchange, no doubt. I figured it was mainly Pete jumping on a juicy opportunity to rip Harry a new one. After Harry's tirade over Joan, he's probably on everyone's shit list.

 

[Dany]

Pete's sincerity was a ruse to get Trudy back. Same with Harry, to show how much he 'cares'. I am sure Pete was struck by the death of MLK but he was ready to amplify his emotions just to yell at Harry.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

After Harry's tirade over Joan, he's probably on everyone's shit list.

After... before.... during...

 

[Jackben]

I don't agree that Pete's behavior was uncharacteristic. He was already upset before he ever had an audience or "reason" to be during the ad awards. If he really didn't care about the severity of the situation he wouldn't have left.

And that was some truly ignorant shit Harry said so it's understandable his emotions got the better of him in allowing him an outlet to express them. Pete has always been upset by the fact that people are so removed from reality when discussing minorities. Remember way back in season 1-2 and his advice at the market research regarding the Admiral televisions? They even show him reading Ebony magazine at one point. Also consider his initiative and determination in getting Honda into the office in 'The Chrysanthemum and the Sword'. You'll remember he blew up at Roger for being racist. These events are too common a facet of his personality to be uncharacteristic or feel 'layed on thick' by the writers. It doesn't happen every episode but occurs often enough for it to feel genuine of his character in my opinion.

His sincerity probably has more to do with frustration of progress that many in SCDP drag their heels on. He sees no reason why these people shouldn't be treated the same as other clients and that their triumphs/tragedies should be taken seriously. He has a family the same as Dr. King had and probably empathizes in that the most because he is upset he cannot be with them due to his infidelity.

 

[SnakeXs]

I agree, but it doesn't come off as if he's being insincere. It instead feels to me to be an out-of-character moment for Pete in the few times that it has popped up.

Also, was there anything about the location of the apartment in New York that Peggy was trying to buy that someone unfamiliar with New York might not understand? They kept mentioning that it was on the East side? I understand that it's far, but was/is that location known for anything specifically?

It's a bit south of Harlem, which was back then a nearly exclusively black area. Civil unrest a stone's throw north of the East 80s was used as a bargaining chip.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

"Forced" and "unnatural" are both pretty apt descriptors of Pete's personality.

Spot the hell on.

Quite liking this season. The Planet of the Apes stuff was really fantastically done I thought.

 

[xenist]

So I guess all the talk about what a monster Betty is and how Don at least loves his kids can be put to final rest.

 

[Jackben]

So I guess all the talk about what a monster Betty is and how Don at least loves his kids can be put to final rest.

You're the only kid Betty ever loved.

 

[Cornballer]

In case anyone wants it:

 

[Talon]

Yeah, Pete and Don were the only two people that responded to the blackface incident at Roger's wedding with disgust.

Pete's a slimy asshole, but he's been consistent on that information.

 

[pigeon]

I don't agree that Pete's behavior was uncharacteristic. He was already upset before he ever had an audience or "reason" to be during the ad awards. If he really didn't care about the severity of the situation he wouldn't have left.

And that was some truly ignorant shit Harry said so it's understandable his emotions got the better of him in allowing him an outlet to express them. Pete has always been upset by the fact that people are so removed from reality when discussing minorities. Remember way back in season 1-2 and his advice at the market research regarding the Admiral televisions? They even show him reading Ebony magazine at one point. Also consider his initiative and determination in getting Honda into the office in 'The Chrysanthemum and the Sword'. You'll remember he blew up at Roger for being racist. These events are too common a facet of his personality to be uncharacteristic or feel 'layed on thick' by the writers. It doesn't happen every episode but occurs often enough for it to feel genuine of his character in my opinion.

His sincerity probably has more to do with frustration of progress that many in SCDP drag their heels on. He sees no reason why these people shouldn't be treated the same as other clients and that their triumphs/tragedies should be taken seriously. He has a family the same as Dr. King had and probably empathizes in that the most because he is upset he cannot be with them due to his infidelity.

I definitely agree with this. One of the entertaining things about Pete is that, prioritizing as he does his own success and happiness over social norms, he would rather make sales than worry about race, when lots of other characters would do the opposite. (Joan is a great example of a normally very sympathetic character who has occasionally gone the other way because she very strongly values social norms. And also, cmon, she comes from outside Spokane, which is still a pretty racist area today.) In a sense, it's Pete's very callowness that makes him more enlightened on this topic -- as with so many other subjects, he just doesn't care what anybody else thinks.

 

[Jack Scofield]

Isn't it true MLK Jr was a controversial person in his time? I thought the reaction of the case was a misrepresentation of what people in their position would react. Not saying they should be racists, but they seem more distraught than I'd expect. Race was only barely touched upon last season and isn't even touched upon much in their work except for one case I can't recall.

Something about it just didn't sit well with me. It felt like the writer staff were giving the reaction of people today instead of in '68.

I came here to post this exact same thing. The reaction to MLK Jr.' s death seemed to be at odds with the characters' portrayals thus far in the series, and basically ignored all the casual racism exhibited by employees of SCDP. Remember, these are people who laughed and cheered when Roger wore blackface and performed a literal minstrel show. And the only reason SCDP hired Dawn was because a joke backfired on them.

For a culture steeped in casual and not-so-casual racism, everyone was infused with modern sensibilities for one episode. It was really weird.

 

[Jackben]

I can't speak for the initial response during the dinner but I thought it was pretty obvious a lot of the cast were reacting to the danger of the rioting and looting that occurred due to his violent murder. Also civil rights issues were in the paper quiet frequently, so everyone would likely know who MLK was even if they didn't personally champion his cause. Henry saying "they're going to burn the whole city down!" summed it up fairly well. Outside of the younger and more progressive people, the reaction I saw most was fear. Fear for their own safety and what the violence meant for their future rather than sympathy, which seems pretty apt for the times.

 

[CrankyJay]

I kind a got of kick out of Don complaining that his kids suck and that Bobby made him feel that pride of love that comes along with being a father, and then Bobby says he's worried about Henry.

LOL

 

[pigeon]

I kind a got of kick out of Don complaining that his kids suck and that Bobby made him feel that pride of love that comes along with being a father, and then Bobby says he's worried about Henry.

LOL

"It's too late, you fucked up" is an emerging theme of this season. Compare this scene to Roger trying to connect with his daughter.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Can't believe Don left Betty for Meagan. =\

 

[Talon]

Can't believe Don left Betty for Meagan. =\

He didn't really give her a choice.

 

[Leona Lewis]

Can't believe Don left Betty for Meagan. =\

Don didn't leave Betty. She left him.

 

[BertramCooper]

Can't believe Don left Betty for Meagan. =\

Pretty sure Betty left Don.

 

[SickBoy]

Outside of his moment with Harry, Pete sure was a sad sack of shit huh? Trudy was too smart and copped onto his game during the tragedy but I felt a little sympathy when even the delivery guy didn't want to talk to him. I wonder if his taste of sad bastard bachelor life will inspire a change.

I'm pretty sure the situation was that the delivery guy spoke little/no English.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Hmm. I'm wrong. Before I got into the show, which was last season btw, I used to catch a few seconds here and there years ago, and I just thought I remembered a scene where Don left her.

Alison Brie FTW, though.

 

[Jackben]

I'm pretty sure the situation was that the delivery guy spoke little/no English.

Probably yeah. But that's how lonely Pete is, trying to make conversation with a random delivery guy who can't even speak English.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Don should get with Trudy.

 

[CrankyJay]

Don should get with Trudy.

Power couple right there.

 

[sixteen-bit]

Don should get with Trudy.

Pete would get into another fist fight

 

[CrankyJay]

Pete would get into another fist fight

Trudy would knock him the fuck out.

 

[Heisenberg]

I came here to post this exact same thing. The reaction to MLK Jr.' s death seemed to be at odds with the characters' portrayals thus far in the series, and basically ignored all the casual racism exhibited by employees of SCDP. Remember, these are people who laughed and cheered when Roger wore blackface and performed a literal minstrel show. And the only reason SCDP hired Dawn was because a joke backfired on them.

For a culture steeped in casual and not-so-casual racism, everyone was infused with modern sensibilities for one episode. It was really weird.

I found it odd as well. Considering how accurate they usually try to be with that stuff I wondered if maybe the reaction was a combination of some people that were genuinely saddened, and others that were upset that they knew this would cause all sorts of riots and violence and were scared by it.

Maybe someone with a better idea of what it was like at that time could comment.

 

[CrankyJay]

So what was Dawn's motivation to stay at the office? I have mixed feelings about this....is it:

1. She's really not all that bothered by the MLK death?
2. She doesn't want to show emotion at the office and be more like Joan?
3. She's afraid of the riots?
4. She just wants to get her mind off of things by working?

Or is it a combination of things? I found this one hard to read.

 

[sixteen-bit]

I read it as mostly 4

 

[Jackben]

I'm unsure about it as well because they didn't really touch on it and she is only in one scene, which felt kind of stupid but was worth it for the ridiculous Joan hug.

I took it at face value, she said her mother urged her to go in. I figure she was glad to be distracted by work and to get away from what is likely a tumultuous environment in her neighborhood. Perhaps also a tinge of towing the line of the status quo to secure her job, making sure that her employers know she is 'one of the good ones'.

 

[kirblar]

I'm unsure about it as well because they didn't really touch on it and she is only in one scene, which felt kind of stupid but was worth it for the ridiculous Joan hug.

I took it at face value, she said her mother urged her to go in. I figure she was glad to be distracted by work and to get away from what is likely a tumultuous environment in her neighborhood. Perhaps also a tinge of towing the line of the status quo to secure her job, making sure that her employers know she is 'one of the good ones'.

After the time-card incident, she's likely walking on eggshells there.

 

[BertramCooper]

So what was Dawn's motivation to stay at the office? I have mixed feelings about this....is it:

1. She's really not all that bothered by the MLK death?
2. She doesn't want to show emotion at the office and be more like Joan?
3. She's afraid of the riots?
4. She just wants to get her mind off of things by working?

Or is it a combination of things? I found this one hard to read.

4, primarily.

 

[CrankyJay]

4, primarily.

I thought about this too, but the lack or reciprocation on the hug threw me for a loop, unless she was extremely confused by Joan's temporary respite from being an ice queen in the office.

 

[BertramCooper]

I thought about this too, but the lack or reciprocation on the hug threw me for a loop, unless she was extremely confused by Joan's temporary respite from being an ice queen in the office.

She's terrified of Joan and was clearly perplexed by her awkward attempt at sympathy.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

A lot of people want routine to get their mind off things.

I was dying to get back to work by the end of the week of 9/11. I came in even though we were still technically closed.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

So what was Dawn's motivation to stay at the office? I have mixed feelings about this....is it:

1. She's really not all that bothered by the MLK death?
2. She doesn't want to show emotion at the office and be more like Joan?
3. She's afraid of the riots?
4. She just wants to get her mind off of things by working?

Or is it a combination of things? I found this one hard to read.

Was she not comfortable enough to sleep at the office to avoid the violence back home in Season 5 (Mystery Date)? I'm guessing it's just that..so 3.

I can't speak for the initial response during the dinner but I thought it was pretty obvious a lot of the cast were reacting to the danger of the rioting and looting that occurred due to his violent murder. Also civil rights issues were in the paper quiet frequently, so everyone would likely know who MLK was even if they didn't personally champion his cause. Henry saying "they're going to burn the whole city down!" summed it up fairly well. Outside of the younger and more progressive people, the reaction I saw most was fear.

I agree. They mainly looked scared shitless and terrified of the consequences.