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Mad Men - Season 7, Part 2 - The End of an Era - AMC Sundays
- Thread starter Cornballer
- Start date
She was diagnosed in Oct 1970 (by the date of the letter to Sally), it's just a month after that. Plus her bedroom is mess full of tissues and pill bottles.
She looked like she was struggling when she went to pick up the phone. Season 7 part 2 starts in April 1970.
I wasn't even expecting a "finale" out of this show if that makes any sense. I watched this with the same mindset as I would watch any other Mad Men episode.
That said, the transition of Don's face to the ad was a brilliant bookend. A layered and cynical ending to a layered and cynical show.
That said, the transition of Don's face to the ad was a brilliant bookend. A layered and cynical ending to a layered and cynical show.
vpance
Member
Oh. I was going off of the Manson name drop by the hotel clerk, so I assumed that was just after the Tate murders which happened in Aug 1969.
I was referring to that last scene though, in the kitchen with Sally doing the dishes. Looked normal there. If the season did start in 1970s then my bad.
That was just her saying that even a year later people see commune and think Manson, hell it's 2015 and people still think of Manson with communes.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
It feels like getting very good news!
Cornballer
Member
PadWarrior
Member
Anyone know what Peggy was typing at the end? I've seen some people say her resignation.
War Peaceman
You're a big guy.
Now that would be a depressing ending
Probably just some random work. She didn't join up with Joan so there's no reason for her to quit. She's gonna stay with Stan forever.
War Peaceman
You're a big guy.
The cocaine scene felt really out of place. I don't get what they were going with. In fact that, Peggy/Stan and the montage felt very out of place and illsuited to Mad Men's style.
"On a related note, Im now sad well never get to see any of the Mad Men characters coke problems. (Im kidding, but also not?)"
made me chuckle, although they'd never top Roger on L
Bobby Roberts
Banned
That shit falls apart in less than a year. If she HAD taken the job with Joan, the relationship would probably be healthier. But those two have only effectively communicated with each other via telephone all this time, and now they're going to be thrust into an existence where there is literally zero escape at any moment during the day. They're gonna burn out on that pretty quickly.
I do kinda like the idea that Joan turns into a version of Julia Phillips.
The cynical side of me makes me think that Peggy wasn't truly in love with Stan but that she's always been desperate for love, and here's a man who's offering it up to her on a platter, someone who she's been best friends with for half a decade now. So she just went with it.
And yeah I can see the relationship crashing like all her other ones too.
The more distance I get from the finale, the more I love it. I was thinking the same thing about the retreat. Wanting him to come back to New York as a new force and make changes, or not, or something.
But really, the retreat was great. It was a physical embodiment of Don's relationships with everyone throughout the whole show. He could be in the same room with people, but he might as well be on the other side of the continent because he never really connected or understood anyone who was close to him. The phone calls diluted down every conversation he had with people to the most important aspects of those relationships with no room for ambiguity. Without Don able to act and attempt to change or cover up his current standing to people who are important to him, he has nothing to do but face it.
Ugh, so good.
mightynine
Member
Chekov's cocaine. Put it next to Pete's hunting rifle.
I enjoyed how Capt. Pike got a touch more animated as the coke hit in.
You could take that in a number of ways. The coke was perhaps to show that the 80s were near and give you a sense of dread.
Maybe it was foreshowing that Don's hit of coke, the thing that brought him "good news", was the inspiration for a Coke ad.
God, I still can't believe how well the show stuck that landing, and in such a way that allows the viewer to draw any number of conclusions.
EDIT: I just don't see Peggy and Stan not working. It's two people who want to be loved for what they do on top of who they are. Stan would not make her choose between him or work, like Richard was doing with Joan. I don't think Peggy made that revelation based on fear of being alone - going to Paris would have been a decision based on fear.
Ninja Scooter
Member
I don't think people "survived" advanced stage cancer in the 1970s. She died they just didn't show it. Sally taking over the motherly role was sort of to signify the passing of the torch to her.
Hmm.. you know cancer isn't like a cold where your body eventually fights it off, right? Even if she got past 6 months there is no surviving it in 1970.
Edit: Anyways in the last scene with Betty she looks thinner/more frail and has dark around her eyes.
Even her outfit there was a bit more like Betty's. Reminds me of earlier in the season when Don told Sally how much like her parents she is.
whoops, double post, sorry
Hell, the whole season. The realtor who tries to sell Don's apartment but can't then he's like "lemme give you some tips" then she's like "LOL they're closing on it now." The waitress family who explicitly tells Don he isn't wanted and to fuck off. The hotel people who initially are like "hey come to the VA meeting" then kicking his ass and telling him to fuck off. Betty pretty much telling Don to stay out of it. Sally telling him to stay out of it.
youbastards
Member
She definitely looked a lot like Betty in this episode. It's not only this season, but it was a common theme throughout the entire series that Betty and Sally are much more alike than either of them would like to admit it.
AnotherNils
Member
I just realized, Betty's situation completely mirrored Anna Drapers. In Betty's situation, she knows she's dying and the kids pretend they don't. With Anna, her family knew she was dying but she pretended she didn't. Both times Don was caught in the middle and said nothing.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
I'm pretty sure you don't survive Betty's diagnosis even in 2015.
You might stretch it out a little longer, maybe. Maybe.
You might stretch it out a little longer, maybe. Maybe.
PadWarrior
Member
The ending for the kids and Betty really makes me sad.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Yeah, they busted out the word "metastasized" rather fast in that diagnosis.
Lionheart1827
Member
Yeah usually thats considered stage 4 and for most cancers thats a death sentence.
StopMakingSense
Member
As others have mentioned, your timeline is off. Either way, what Betty got was a death sentence. From that stage of cancer, (also, metastasis in the bones is not curable), in that day and age, all treatment options were palliative / merely life extending (if effective)
Depends on the cancer. Every type has different staging. I had metastatic testicular cancer (lymph nodes) and that was just stage 2.
Deified Data
Banned
Everyone I know who watched thinks it's plain as day that Don went back to advertising after a spiritual awakening and made the ad, but I really didn't get that at all - seems like a bit of a stretch, honestly. I thought it was just a way of tying a central theme of the show (advertising) and the time period (a hokey bit of nostalgia) to Don's "enlightened" state of mind.
Cornballer
Member
I could see that if it weren't for all the overt cues--the ad being for Coca-Cola, which was a prominent and central theme, the ad being historically released by McCann, which was his most recent company, the extreme similarity of costuming and landscape of the place where he was staying, the fact that without it we don't really have an "ending" lynchpin... it's too on point to just be suggesting enlightenment in an advertisement type of way.
just watched the finale and was a bit baffled too to discover people think the ending meant that don went back to new york and made a coke ad which seems almost absurdly literal and didn't cross my mind. i thought it was solely metaphorical, tying together of the themes of the show, which has always blurred the lines between emotional honesty felt by people and contrived emotions sold by companies right back to the carosuel or even just the characters relationship to cigarettes in the pilot. on his spiritual retreat don doesn't find meaning, he finds the momentary, shallow illusion of meaning like that which he's tapped into for years to make ads that are soon forgotten. they appear like truth, which is why it is so close to the reality of his moment in form, but aren't truth. at this second he is happy and thinks he has some essential truth about life, like he does constantly and repeatedly through all seven seasons, but he'll inevitably regress and fall apart. fwiw, i think he tries a simple life in california working with his hands, but falls apart again soon and he drifts on.
DataStream
Member
Man, the snark in the Rolling Stone review is pretty insane to me.
I think this finale was much more tidy than I expected, with closure for most of the characters that felt somewhat like fan service (but given how bleak things had gotten, was totally welcome.) These aren't characters from The Sopranos who we really should hate, they are real people with flaws but are not inherently bad or evil.
Don fell in love with someone who had shed their past in the waitress, but not their baggage. She did not feel she deserved love and wanted to live a life of penance. He set off to find her thinking that sharing that path would allow them both to find peace. When that was not possible he kept shedding off as much as he could, slowly removing every vestige of himself to try and return to be Dick Whitman.
Mad Men (and The Sopranos) always demonstrated a great love of not just the craft of film and television but analysis of the medium and how it fits within our understanding of society. Mad Men is quite literally about the signifier and the signified and how our cultural zeitgeist is mediated by the structure of the sign. Don has always been keenly aware of this fact and his work life has been wonderful because of the absoluteness of that understanding. At the same time, he personally has lived a life creating an image of himself that he recreated for each personal need he had along the way. When trying to peel all that away, he was totally unable to view those fragments in a way that made sense because they were only understandable through the perception of those around him. He was only able to fully grasp that when it was articulated by someone else.
I think saying the ending was cynical misses the point. As much as the show was a lens by which we viewed the past it always had its eye just as much on the present. Whether television or advertising, our understanding of what connects us as people is formed as much by history, art, media, and objects as it is by real human connection. Making that connection meaningful beyond symbology is our job.
I think this finale was much more tidy than I expected, with closure for most of the characters that felt somewhat like fan service (but given how bleak things had gotten, was totally welcome.) These aren't characters from The Sopranos who we really should hate, they are real people with flaws but are not inherently bad or evil.
Don fell in love with someone who had shed their past in the waitress, but not their baggage. She did not feel she deserved love and wanted to live a life of penance. He set off to find her thinking that sharing that path would allow them both to find peace. When that was not possible he kept shedding off as much as he could, slowly removing every vestige of himself to try and return to be Dick Whitman.
Mad Men (and The Sopranos) always demonstrated a great love of not just the craft of film and television but analysis of the medium and how it fits within our understanding of society. Mad Men is quite literally about the signifier and the signified and how our cultural zeitgeist is mediated by the structure of the sign. Don has always been keenly aware of this fact and his work life has been wonderful because of the absoluteness of that understanding. At the same time, he personally has lived a life creating an image of himself that he recreated for each personal need he had along the way. When trying to peel all that away, he was totally unable to view those fragments in a way that made sense because they were only understandable through the perception of those around him. He was only able to fully grasp that when it was articulated by someone else.
I think saying the ending was cynical misses the point. As much as the show was a lens by which we viewed the past it always had its eye just as much on the present. Whether television or advertising, our understanding of what connects us as people is formed as much by history, art, media, and objects as it is by real human connection. Making that connection meaningful beyond symbology is our job.
StopMakingSense
Member
There's a handful of clues that point in the direction of Don making the ad. Most notably the look, hair and dress of the camp receptionist and her analog in the commercial.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
You ended up explaining exactly why people seized on the idea that Don went back to McCann and created the ad.
If people wanted to knot things up even tighter, you could suggest that Don came up with the ad, had Peggy write it, and she contracted Holloway-Harris to produce it for them.
(Directed by Sal.)
sammyCYBORG
Member
Stan and Peggy should have just remained awesome friends.
I mean, maybe it's me, but I think it's implied that the relationship isnt the best idea
the whole reasoning and finding out she was "in love" was such a rationalized peggy thing rather than the gut or "just do what you want" feeling you'd expect from her "character breakthrough" that I really dont think she really moved on or learned anything. she was basically convincing herself she liked Stan that way. It was the same character as always.
plus stan kinda can't stand her
StopMakingSense
Member
Yeah, the only thing that felt sloppy to me was the Stan and Peggy call going full RomCom.
I really think it's on purpose given my reasons above
maybe weiner should have been more in your face about it but.. yeah, there's no way it was that hammy romcom on purpose. they're the worst possible couple
edit: also, dude, are we really discussing wether or not that was Don's ad?
.. of course it was. dude finds his nirvana and fucking sells it. that "ommmm" bit is basically dick embracing don all the way, not the other way around.
it's basically a fake-out, and I thought it was done real well.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Too many real-life couples start out long-term friends for me to discount it.
DataStream
Member
- the opening of the season with Freddie pointed out earlier in the thread
- being offered the account at McCann
- literally fixing a Coca Cola machine in the previous episode that the owner wants to keep because of his personal attachment
- Peggy begging him to come back and work on coke
- the receptionist looking like a character from the ad
Most importantly, his breakthrough was not that he was going to shed away his previous life, but that he does not need to create "Don Draper". He is in fact the person that other people see him to be and many of those people do love him, for all his faults. He isn't going to stay in California and abandon his past.
StopMakingSense
Member
I don't really have issues with the coupling, more just the scene in general.
whole show is about fake breakthroughs/redemption/whatever and how people truly are, and it stayed that way through the end.
if anything the "breakthrough" was talking with peggy. he just is fucking don draper. the whole spiritual bit did shit for him and he never cared for it other than using it for what's basically the most "evil" thing you can do with it, sell coke
it's not even a sad ending; he's legit happy. advertising is his home and his shit is genuine.
if anything the "breakthrough" was talking with peggy. he just is fucking don draper. the whole spiritual bit did shit for him and he never cared for it other than using it for what's basically the most "evil" thing you can do with it, sell coke
it's not even a sad ending; he's legit happy. advertising is his home and his shit is genuine.
DataStream
Member
8 years going with my BFF from college. We didn't get together until 4 years after graduation.