To clarify - while Launch is in the same boat, he's at least been having some sort of argument about it. Batsnacks latched on immediately, super-excited to lynch Kark. That screams like a poor town move, lacking any sort of reasoning, and more like a scum move that is hoping to take out an easy target.
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[Mafia] NX Launch Night |OT| Back of the Line!
- Thread starter CzarTim
- Start date
Hmm, I actually agree with this. It is extremely suspicious.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
That's a fair point. I'd be open to discussing him, after he responds.
Latching onto that vote so badly lol
Maybe he does want to get lynched.
Here is the first solid reasoning I've seen anyone present all day. Yes, of the votes that were on Kark, Darryl was pure chance, Launch seemed to excited at the kill, and bat snuck his way into it, has thrown out insubstantial comments here and there, and has mostly stayed in the shadow with this vote. I'm still more interested in Kark today because at this point (early in the game) I think it's going to be more helpful if we push it along so his hand is revealed so then we can move on but yeah, batsnacks will be the more telling vote on Kark if/when he flips town.
Been kind of busy today. I thought my vote was really well reasoned though.
If Tim put a Jester in here I will scream.
If he's scum with an on-death ability, I don't see a good reason why they would play that card so early in the game.
Eh.
Hey, at least we won't lose a PR! And I know Sorian will join me because he said he would go ham on people that claim.
VOTE: Karkador
Purposefully using someone else as cover for your decision.
Mafia has no idea if Kark is telling the truth about being Ordinary.
The bolded - trying to imply reason with a question.
Super-excited. Kark's vote for himself was clearly a symbolic gesture - I highly doubt he actually wants to vote for himself. It got people talking, at least.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
wow, not even letting me down easy.
Here's the problem I'm seeing with batsnacks. batsnacks' vote and lack of substantial reasoning could be indicative of a mafia bandwagon, but it could also be lack of experience or it could be him trying to distance himself from Kark in the event Kark is lynched.
I'm willing to entertain the notion that batsnacks could be mafia, it's very possible, yet there are a lot of ways to spin this still. Meanwhile, Kark did something completely unnecessary with no provocation. My focus is still on him for this phase.
He also tried semi-hard to convince me when I didn't go along with the vote right away like I was acting uncharacteristic or something. It could have been construed as just trying to explain to get more votes on board but the logic was weak.
Sorry man, Kark is obviously baiting, it's so early that I'd rather just go for the bait so we can know and be done with it but we both know hunting scum isn't this easy. I bet there is some 4th dimension chess at play here but I don't think it leads where you want it to.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
Hardly.
Mafia benefit from indecision. Karkador was advocating for a no-lynch day 1, then proposes lynching himself if we want to lynch someone... which must mean he's an ordinary townie who just wants everyone to live, right?
That's total malarkey and you know it.
He bandwagoned your Darryl vote too, after Sorian:
He also makes plenty of references to "blue" roles, making me think he at least has some knowledge of mafia.
You really believe someone is going to suicide Day 1? And by your claim and his posts thereafter, he wants a no-lynch Day 1. So clearly he doesn't ACTUALLY want to get lynched.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
You guys keep talking about baiting. Baiting for what purpose? You guys can't just say he's baiting, then not justify why he would be doing it because it's total nonsense; you bait with purpose, and so far Karkador has just been falling back on bullshit he built up.
If anyone is playing 4D chess here, it's obviously scum.
He was expecting us to take it at face value, just like you are. "There's no way someone would just suicide day 1". Right.
When I said I knew Sorian would join me in voting Kark my intention was to see if Sorian would actually go ham on someone who claimed, like he said he would twice early game. Sorian emphasized in his first post I think that if anyone even soft claimed that they would hear from him about it. So that's what that was about. Sorian more or less delivered even though I don't think he ever actually voted Kark, though he did say he was holding his vote because he didn't want to risk cutting the day short.
I don't think anyone can convince me that there is a chance of Kark being both town and a power role. I haven't played with anyone here before but in all 50ish games of forum mafia I've played elsewhere what Kark did would be unheard of from a power role. So from my point of view Kark can't be a power role, and I have to trust my instincts over what anyone else says since I don't know any of you.
I'm pretty sure Kark actually did hard claim and did vote himself too. He formatted the vote correctly and everything. I might have seemed excited but honestly I was annoyed. I don't like when people play against their win condition, which if Kark is town I believe he is doing, even if it's supposed to be some symbolic gesture.
I don't think anyone can convince me that there is a chance of Kark being both town and a power role. I haven't played with anyone here before but in all 50ish games of forum mafia I've played elsewhere what Kark did would be unheard of from a power role. So from my point of view Kark can't be a power role, and I have to trust my instincts over what anyone else says since I don't know any of you.
I'm pretty sure Kark actually did hard claim and did vote himself too. He formatted the vote correctly and everything. I might have seemed excited but honestly I was annoyed. I don't like when people play against their win condition, which if Kark is town I believe he is doing, even if it's supposed to be some symbolic gesture.
I feel like you're purposefully ignoring what we're saying. Him putting a target on his back caused people to jump on a vote for him. Those that jumped without maybe thinking twice about the situation are pretty damn suspicious.
LaunchpadMcQ said:
Taking it at face value is that he's a poor town player that wants to die. Reading into it is what I'm doing. Not understanding the potential gambit is what you're doing.
Blargonaut
Banned
My Darryl vote was me just trying to stir things up early. I have a solid town lean on Darryl now.
And I made a lot of references to blues because we had a claim and a claim hurts our blues. There were also some open ended questions asked, one of them by Launch, that seemed to me like they could be blue fishing.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
Has it, in any way, looked like I jumped into this vote without thinking about it? I justified everything right from the get-go.
....
My point is, you're buying into what I think he's trying to pull.
I doubt he is a power role as well.
As for him putting down a vote and formatting it correctly (like it matters), yes, he did. That's not the point - I doubt he did it in order to actually get lynched. While I don't agree with him, he's been pretty adamant about no-lynching Day 1. And I don't think attempting to find bandwagoners and quick-to-voters is necessarily "against town's win condition."
I don't think Ouro is on the same page as me anymore based on his more recent posts. Blarg might be on the same page as me? But I can't trust understanding what Blarg is talking about. I don't plan to justify my thought process on Kark until day 2 because I don't want to spoil his awesome (/sarcasm) strats if I'm right. As it stands now, I believe my time is better spent with a vote on Kark so if it's any consolation, you don't need to convince me.
Dying, not necessarily, but killing yourself and putting our power roles in unnecessary danger does.
Which is why my vote is on batsnacks and not you.
Nah, that's fine. I'm not saying I'm 100% right, because I have no idea what Kark is actually thinking. It's just my read of the situation. Others clearly have their own interpretation.
If there's something I did that you don't understand I'm here for like, another 40ish minutes.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
If this was a play to get reactions, why is he not going after batsnacks or why the delayed response in going after me?
Ok, let me reiterate what I believe the intent of the self-vote was. He doesn't want a lynch to happen, so he offers himself up if we're just going to choose at random. We're obviously not going to lynch this poor townie who just offered himself up, but he feels pretty strongly about the no-lynch; so, we'll spend time discussing it and discussing it, and ultimately, we may not end up doing what we would have done otherwise.
Does that sound like something he could have done?
To be frank, I don't believe that his role claim was true, that's why I didn't get as upset as you were probably hoping. I guess lying about your role is a soft claim but saying you are ordinary town reads as so worthless to me that I wasn't too worried about it. Mafia is/was still going to have to discuss whether they actually believe Kark or not so it didn't actually make the pool smaller for them to hit a PR.
Not understand? No. I understand that you voted for Kark.
Sure. I'm aware there are other options. I'm not totally against the possibility. I'm just saying I don't think it's the most likely. Survival of one ordinary town role is a much less important goal than survival of town as a whole.
Honestly, I think claiming Ordinary at this point has a negligible effect on mafia finding PRs. If you guys were going to kill a random anyway, what difference does it make? PRs are in more danger from that nonsense than me claiming I'm Ordinary.
Blargonaut
Banned
Do you wanna build a snowman?
No to the bolded. I don't think Kark is dumb enough to think that this group won't go for blood.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
As far as I know, nobody voted on him just because he offered himself up and accepted that, at face value, as a good solution. I certainly didn't.
That makes sense to me. Some more background though: in a lot of the other mafia games I've played Kark no-lynch advocating and self voting are both usually instant policy lynches. I can see how those might not be the best policies in every situation but that's what I'm used to.
All the more reason for you to want him gone?
In lieu of no other information and it being day 1? I probably would have no problem and you kind of did the same, you just justified it with an extra step of logic where you thought it was a scum power play with some reverse psychology mixed in. He did it so early though that I wasn't willing to just chimp down right away, if this kind of thing had come in the final hours of a boring day 1 though? I wouldn't have went for it and not looked back.
I don't think this is right. If you claim ordinary, and we kill a different ordinary today that's not you, that's already narrowing down the possible power role pool by 2. That's like a solid 20% chance increase in a blue snipe assuming just 1 blue and 4 mafia.
Blargonaut
Banned
Kark, I wish you would tell me why
Do you want to build a snowman?
It doesn't have to be a snowman
Do you want to build a snowman?
It doesn't have to be a snowman
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
The added levels of logic go against the original point of this... lol
I want him gone because I think he could be mafia, because I think he's hurting town, and if he is town at least we get rid of a townie that's hurting town.
Someone help me with the Frozen references he keeps doing? They're lost on me.
Not really, he didn't do anything to make you add on those levels of logic, you would have added those if anyone claimed ordinary and voted themselves to keep day 1 safe.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
You're missing the point... but I guess it doesn't really matter. Let's move on.
I can build one in three sections
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
I don't know how long Kark is going to give me the cold shoulder for, but whatever excuse he's going to make up, I want to get out in front of it and say I'm open to whatever he has to say as long as it's not more slander.
Blargonaut
Banned
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
I was going to respond with a nearly identical statement.
It was supposed to generate discussion that was going to make us change our mind of killing him which you see as him playing a mind game to hide in town as scum. Don't worry, I perfectly understand the place where your vote comes from.
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