LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
I still don't even know why I'm on the table to begin with. Does anyone have a valid reason for voting for me?
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[Mafia] NX Launch Night |OT| Back of the Line!
- Thread starter CzarTim
- Start date
People are voting you because of how eager you are to lynch karkador.
I honestly don´t feel either way for both of you, so I don´t feel like changing my vote.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
I want a contract that says if I get lynched today, you guys will turbo Kark next phase.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
Eager though I may be, I haven't been forcing my vote down anyone's throat. I've let people discuss other things and I've kept an open mind about it. However, I rather lynch someone I know something about, someone who has reacted very negatively under scrutiny, than a random individual.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
This is the point, time-wise, usually where I start looking at all the accusations I made and second-guessing myself. I just look at the mountain of lies and negative behavior Kark has produced in the last 24 hours and become even more sure he's scum.
Time for some Player Impressions before bed:
cabbeh [m] - Doesn't exactly stick out to me, but none of their posts have sounded particularly alarming to me, either. Just under half of their posts are actually game-related (the others were before the day started). They seem to be involved with another Mafia game at the moment, so I wonder if there's any interference between games for them. It has to be a little weird to be playing in a game with your moderator (Ourobolus)
TheGoddamn [m] - I don't know anything about this person
roytheone [m] - They have a few less posts in the game than cabbeh. They seem to at least be willing to consider my argument, but either don't really understand what I'm saying, or are quick to misconstrue it. Anyway, they haven't voted, and I don't have that much of an opinion on them yet.
Darryl [-] - I think we're all a bit familiar with Darryl's style of play, so I don't really have to comment on that. It's sort of unfair, but he has a reputation for clashing with people. I think it's unfair that he got voted on right at the beginning, for no reason. Maybe it seems like a joke, but I don't take that kind of action too lightly.
I'd also like to point out that, if I was an observer, and I was convinced Karkador was mafia, Darryl would look like a strong candidate for his mafia partner, since Darryl has pretty much not bothered him at all. I wouldn't be surprised if people thought that.
Sorian [m] - He asks a lot of questions, and I think that's good. I much prefer questions to bold-faced accusations. His questioning me on why I was in favor of No Lynch is what set me down this path. I think it's annoying for people to adhere to such strict codes as "You must lynch on Day 1", but asking the question rather than accusing comes off open-minded. With that said, I have no idea what they intend to do with me.
batsnacks [m] - I have trouble understanding many of their accusations and rhetorical questions directed at me. They present arguments with weird paradoxes like "you voted for yourself. only mafia would vote for town 100%, so you must be mafia". I don't really know how to respond to this, to be honest. It's nonsense, sorry.
Fireblend [m] - Very few posts. I don't really know what to think yet.
Karkador [m] - Hi
Burbeting [m] - Burbeting was completely off my radar until they posted this long thing, exploring hypothetical what-ifs. YES. We don't agree on much at all (he's basically calling me scum, and/or dumb - thanks) but I really like this style of analyzing the situation. Walk through the different possibilities. Show us your thought process. Let's think about things from different angles. I think this has been one of the best posts in the thread so far, even if it's wrong.
SalvaPot [m] - He got hassled for something earlier in the thread - honestly, I read through it and it did't seem like that big of a deal. I guess he seems...I don't know...eager to comply with people? Non-confrontational? Maybe he's trying to stay out of trouble, or maybe he's scum. I can't tell. However, I will say, FWIW, his estimation about mafia/town ratios is way off.
Ourobolus [m] - Seems hesitant to make a move. Voted for SalvaPot...whatever that means. I am appreciating his ....patience(?) with trying to understand the things I'm trying to get across. Much like Sorian, I'll give this player the benefit of the doubt. Any amount of trust should be rewarded with trust.
LaunchpadMcQ [m] - Let me just sum this up: Overly aggressive with voting, careless, tunnel-visioned, and not being a team player. Insists on voting for me, even if I'm a Town PR. Has already suggested he'll wriggle out of responsibility for driving such a senseless vote. Let me be frank - this behavior resembles someone on a witch hunt, trying to look righteous in the eyes of Town. I might even go as far to guess this is a 3rd party SK or something. It sounds familiar.
Lone_Prodigy [m] - 3 posts, I have no idea.
Blargonaut [m] - Blarg, let me be real for a second here. I love your antics - I'm tempted to join you sometimes. I appreciate you being here. I think you also have the potential of making strong arguments. But you're just generating a bunch of noise right now. It seems to me like you don't have much to say. That's okay for now, I guess....but you're being disruptive. I think you can give us an opinion without being like this.
RetroMG [m] - Has been mostly absent so far, so I can't comment much yet. I often get the feeling that this person likes me (I mean, as part of the community), and I think we get along. I wonder if he's going to be more lenient on me, as a result. I'm curious to see what he has to say, but I'm preparing myself for heartbreak.
There you have it.
cabbeh [m] - Doesn't exactly stick out to me, but none of their posts have sounded particularly alarming to me, either. Just under half of their posts are actually game-related (the others were before the day started). They seem to be involved with another Mafia game at the moment, so I wonder if there's any interference between games for them. It has to be a little weird to be playing in a game with your moderator (Ourobolus)
TheGoddamn [m] - I don't know anything about this person
roytheone [m] - They have a few less posts in the game than cabbeh. They seem to at least be willing to consider my argument, but either don't really understand what I'm saying, or are quick to misconstrue it. Anyway, they haven't voted, and I don't have that much of an opinion on them yet.
Darryl [-] - I think we're all a bit familiar with Darryl's style of play, so I don't really have to comment on that. It's sort of unfair, but he has a reputation for clashing with people. I think it's unfair that he got voted on right at the beginning, for no reason. Maybe it seems like a joke, but I don't take that kind of action too lightly.
I'd also like to point out that, if I was an observer, and I was convinced Karkador was mafia, Darryl would look like a strong candidate for his mafia partner, since Darryl has pretty much not bothered him at all. I wouldn't be surprised if people thought that.
Sorian [m] - He asks a lot of questions, and I think that's good. I much prefer questions to bold-faced accusations. His questioning me on why I was in favor of No Lynch is what set me down this path. I think it's annoying for people to adhere to such strict codes as "You must lynch on Day 1", but asking the question rather than accusing comes off open-minded. With that said, I have no idea what they intend to do with me.
batsnacks [m] - I have trouble understanding many of their accusations and rhetorical questions directed at me. They present arguments with weird paradoxes like "you voted for yourself. only mafia would vote for town 100%, so you must be mafia". I don't really know how to respond to this, to be honest. It's nonsense, sorry.
Fireblend [m] - Very few posts. I don't really know what to think yet.
Karkador [m] - Hi
Burbeting [m] - Burbeting was completely off my radar until they posted this long thing, exploring hypothetical what-ifs. YES. We don't agree on much at all (he's basically calling me scum, and/or dumb - thanks) but I really like this style of analyzing the situation. Walk through the different possibilities. Show us your thought process. Let's think about things from different angles. I think this has been one of the best posts in the thread so far, even if it's wrong.
SalvaPot [m] - He got hassled for something earlier in the thread - honestly, I read through it and it did't seem like that big of a deal. I guess he seems...I don't know...eager to comply with people? Non-confrontational? Maybe he's trying to stay out of trouble, or maybe he's scum. I can't tell. However, I will say, FWIW, his estimation about mafia/town ratios is way off.
Ourobolus [m] - Seems hesitant to make a move. Voted for SalvaPot...whatever that means. I am appreciating his ....patience(?) with trying to understand the things I'm trying to get across. Much like Sorian, I'll give this player the benefit of the doubt. Any amount of trust should be rewarded with trust.
LaunchpadMcQ [m] - Let me just sum this up: Overly aggressive with voting, careless, tunnel-visioned, and not being a team player. Insists on voting for me, even if I'm a Town PR. Has already suggested he'll wriggle out of responsibility for driving such a senseless vote. Let me be frank - this behavior resembles someone on a witch hunt, trying to look righteous in the eyes of Town. I might even go as far to guess this is a 3rd party SK or something. It sounds familiar.
Lone_Prodigy [m] - 3 posts, I have no idea.
Blargonaut [m] - Blarg, let me be real for a second here. I love your antics - I'm tempted to join you sometimes. I appreciate you being here. I think you also have the potential of making strong arguments. But you're just generating a bunch of noise right now. It seems to me like you don't have much to say. That's okay for now, I guess....but you're being disruptive. I think you can give us an opinion without being like this.
RetroMG [m] - Has been mostly absent so far, so I can't comment much yet. I often get the feeling that this person likes me (I mean, as part of the community), and I think we get along. I wonder if he's going to be more lenient on me, as a result. I'm curious to see what he has to say, but I'm preparing myself for heartbreak.
There you have it.
Yea a hard wall was created, two people dead set on each other being scum. Scum will just leave both alive to keep fucking with us, so we have to do something. I kinda agree with Kark about the aggressive meta around here (I didn't put those words in his mouth did I?), and Launch could be smart enough to be taking advantage of it. Or Kark can be smart enough to be trapping someone with it. Blah it's confusing.
Blargonaut
Banned
Because I suck at improv and therefore you must be escorted off the premises for having been the subject of and subject to my performance
Just as valid as any other Day 1 reason, really
Why am I still awake
Again
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
I skipped to my section because I knew what I would see - straight up lies and slander. My God. If you are town Kark, you're the worst town player I've ever seen.
You're confusing my eagerness to tear your plays apart with short-sightedness. I've told people to discuss other trains of thought and to change my mind. I've said multiple times, explicitly, that I'll accept responsibility; no suggesting about it. You won't address my arguments, so of course this whole thing is one-sided.
This whole description reads like a mafia who's mad he got found out early. Please guys, Sorian, Ouro, someone with sense. You have to see this for what it is.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
Ok, I've calmed down since yesterday, but I'm still voting for Kark. Do I still fall into this aggressive category?
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
Ok, if it's like that, I can't fault you.
Also, idk why I'm still awake either. I keep checking for new posts...
I'm not really seeing the "noble scum sacrifice" angle
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
Also, as an anecdote, whenever I've ever clashed with a townie (Haly, Salva, Freak), they've always addressed me head-on and not run away from arguing with me. Kark is avoiding confrontation with me altogether, sticking to one slanderous line of criticism that I've discredited, and making no real case for himself.
So? Explain how it's a "scum sacrifice". Explain how that would make sense in any way.
It's the day 1 hot out the gate aggressive behavior that I'm talking about. I was like half way to lynched the moment I checked the thread and I'm not a notoriously inactive person, I have been nonstop in games. What was putting me in duress going to do? Get me to talk? I was going to talk. Instead the game opened hostile. This has already happened obviously, so talking about it won't change anything. We can only like, look back on it. I mean I don't wanna linger on it too far.
What I said was "scum trying to make a noble sacrifice to make friends with town"
So, in this theory, you pretend to be townie and willing to sacrifice yourself, with the idea that the town will believe you and not actually lynch you, so the fact that you were willing make you less likely for suspicion.
Pretty standard stuff, really.
OK, I see people are struggling to have a real read on me, which is possibly the worst situation for me to be in, and absolutely not what I wanted. There are reasons for my behaviour which I'll try and clear up with my self-read. In the meantime, reads!
NB I'll also be breaking Kark's no-meta rule, mainly because while I feel he was going *too* meta by talking about all games in a general sense, I think looking outwith the game with regards to posting behaviour can be helpful, so that's what I'll be doing.
1. cabbeh [m] - I'm acting differently than in the Archer game for a couple of reasons:
1. We have three noisemakers, two very chatty, external posters and Blarg. I posted a reasonable amount of stuff before the game started and I was considering keeping up the activity, but once I saw how the game went down, I immediately backtracked and decided taking a more backseat role is better for everyone reading through the game.
2. Kark said half my posts are fluff, which is half right. As in, 25% may be fluff and the additional 25% is something else which could come in handy for me at a later point. Vague I know, but I'm in a bit of a dilemma with how I should play currently.
3. I'm keeping up with the thread, so keep that in mind.
3. roytheone [m]
Nothing too much to say here yet, is engaging but isn't really reading to me as a specific alignment quite yet. Sorian suspects him but it's hard to say if his ONUW experiences come into play or if it's genuinely from this game.
4. Darryl [-]
Darryl being Darryl. That makes me think town, because of Archer, but that's meta-gut. It's not an adequate confirmation of alignment.
5. Sorian [m]
I believe the chatty people are always good in the long run, either because they have a greater chance of slipping up if scum, or because they generate discussion as town. I'm leaning town.
6. batsnacks [m]
His eagerness is unexpected and can tinge on suspicious, but he has posted a few times implying he's a forum mafia veteran. For that reason I'd like to keep him a little longer than day one. I see nothing immediately worrying me.
8. Karkador [m]
I think Kark is town, and this gambit is problematic. I think it's far too bold for a Mafia to try (cue me being wrong and all suspicion thrown on me) and I also think it appears to be some kind of 'gotcha' for eager beavers like Launch. My feelings on the situation is that I think it's Town vs Town and it's distracting from looking at most other people in the thread so far.
9. Burbeting [m]
Burbeting seems like he's picked up exactly where he left off, and offers good, thoughtful analysis which help us townies with the situations at hand.
10. SalvaPot [m]
I'm very iffy on Salva. I'm going to followup with some quotes in a next post, but basically he's not really coming across as a man of conviction, which isn't a bad thing, but it certainly makes him difficult to read.
11. Ourobolus [m]
Despite what Kark says, I have no issue with Ouro being here in this game and he has not affected my performance. He's been quiet but potent, so I can't fault him too much so far. I'm taking a lot of the 'quiet' people with a pinch of salt because we started over a weekend please keep that in mind.
12. LaunchpadMcQ [m]
Again, I find chatty people beneficial and while I do think Launch has went bizarrely all in on Kark, I would like to keep him around at least after the current day.
14. Blargonaut [m]
This is the problem. Blarg has his lovers and haters. I'd probably consider myself to be a hater. It doesn't help that in this game he seems to be particularly useless so far. It's different from the other games which is worth noting, but I'd happily lynch Blarg as things currently stand, because I feel he can be a problem at the best of times, and currently he's circling the 'worst of times' drain. Still thinking on that 'joke' he mentioned also.
These 4 are not going to be read because they haven't really done anything yet. I will say Fireblend has been posting but nothing is really coming out from them, and has LP given a reason for his lack of contributions?
I'll give Retro and TheG the benefit of the doubt because they gave reasons and previous behaviour.
2. TheGoddamn [m]
15. RetroMG [m]
7. Fireblend [m]
13. Lone_Prodigy [m]
I've no doubt broken loads of rules by mentioning other games. Classic console launch queue behaviour, really.
NB I'll also be breaking Kark's no-meta rule, mainly because while I feel he was going *too* meta by talking about all games in a general sense, I think looking outwith the game with regards to posting behaviour can be helpful, so that's what I'll be doing.
1. cabbeh [m] - I'm acting differently than in the Archer game for a couple of reasons:
1. We have three noisemakers, two very chatty, external posters and Blarg. I posted a reasonable amount of stuff before the game started and I was considering keeping up the activity, but once I saw how the game went down, I immediately backtracked and decided taking a more backseat role is better for everyone reading through the game.
2. Kark said half my posts are fluff, which is half right. As in, 25% may be fluff and the additional 25% is something else which could come in handy for me at a later point. Vague I know, but I'm in a bit of a dilemma with how I should play currently.
3. I'm keeping up with the thread, so keep that in mind.
3. roytheone [m]
Nothing too much to say here yet, is engaging but isn't really reading to me as a specific alignment quite yet. Sorian suspects him but it's hard to say if his ONUW experiences come into play or if it's genuinely from this game.
4. Darryl [-]
Darryl being Darryl. That makes me think town, because of Archer, but that's meta-gut. It's not an adequate confirmation of alignment.
5. Sorian [m]
I believe the chatty people are always good in the long run, either because they have a greater chance of slipping up if scum, or because they generate discussion as town. I'm leaning town.
6. batsnacks [m]
His eagerness is unexpected and can tinge on suspicious, but he has posted a few times implying he's a forum mafia veteran. For that reason I'd like to keep him a little longer than day one. I see nothing immediately worrying me.
8. Karkador [m]
I think Kark is town, and this gambit is problematic. I think it's far too bold for a Mafia to try (cue me being wrong and all suspicion thrown on me) and I also think it appears to be some kind of 'gotcha' for eager beavers like Launch. My feelings on the situation is that I think it's Town vs Town and it's distracting from looking at most other people in the thread so far.
9. Burbeting [m]
Burbeting seems like he's picked up exactly where he left off, and offers good, thoughtful analysis which help us townies with the situations at hand.
10. SalvaPot [m]
I'm very iffy on Salva. I'm going to followup with some quotes in a next post, but basically he's not really coming across as a man of conviction, which isn't a bad thing, but it certainly makes him difficult to read.
11. Ourobolus [m]
Despite what Kark says, I have no issue with Ouro being here in this game and he has not affected my performance. He's been quiet but potent, so I can't fault him too much so far. I'm taking a lot of the 'quiet' people with a pinch of salt because we started over a weekend please keep that in mind.
12. LaunchpadMcQ [m]
Again, I find chatty people beneficial and while I do think Launch has went bizarrely all in on Kark, I would like to keep him around at least after the current day.
14. Blargonaut [m]
This is the problem. Blarg has his lovers and haters. I'd probably consider myself to be a hater. It doesn't help that in this game he seems to be particularly useless so far. It's different from the other games which is worth noting, but I'd happily lynch Blarg as things currently stand, because I feel he can be a problem at the best of times, and currently he's circling the 'worst of times' drain. Still thinking on that 'joke' he mentioned also.
These 4 are not going to be read because they haven't really done anything yet. I will say Fireblend has been posting but nothing is really coming out from them, and has LP given a reason for his lack of contributions?
I'll give Retro and TheG the benefit of the doubt because they gave reasons and previous behaviour.
2. TheGoddamn [m]
15. RetroMG [m]
7. Fireblend [m]
13. Lone_Prodigy [m]
I've no doubt broken loads of rules by mentioning other games. Classic console launch queue behaviour, really.
Well that's embarrassing. Turns out I misread the quote I had in mind with Salva.
Basically I thought he implied he was back on No Lynch in reply to my question on his stance change, and then he replied to Ouro saying he wanted a lynch.
He actually said he had already defended his stance and wasn't going to talk about it again.
Still though, it would have been nice to have responded to me instead of responding to Sorian bringing my quote up!
I think it's understandable a miss or two might happen in this game due to the number of posts being thrown around.
I guess with that I'll revoke most of my suspicion from Salva. I do still think changing your stance is interesting, but the reasons you've given are adequate for now.
Basically I thought he implied he was back on No Lynch in reply to my question on his stance change, and then he replied to Ouro saying he wanted a lynch.
He actually said he had already defended his stance and wasn't going to talk about it again.
Still though, it would have been nice to have responded to me instead of responding to Sorian bringing my quote up!
I think it's understandable a miss or two might happen in this game due to the number of posts being thrown around.
I guess with that I'll revoke most of my suspicion from Salva. I do still think changing your stance is interesting, but the reasons you've given are adequate for now.
Unvote who ??
go away, I don't have that silly rule!
You don't need to specify when you Unvote, we know who the last person you voted for was.
I think these are the reasons everyone of those people gave why they aren't as active (yet):
Come on. I'm not bothered by your prodding, but forgetting my name is a new low
Anyway, I promise to be more active tomorrow. I can keep up with the game much easier at work.
So basically they all say that playing during the weekend is hard for them. Thats a fair enough reason, but now that the weekend is over I do expect some more posts from them.
Also, because the day is now more than half over, I think it is time for everyone to start having an active vote on the table, so:
Vote: Karkador
He is behaving incredibly weird, and he has completely dominated all the discussion today. Maybe he is a towny that tries to see how people react on his action to get some reads, but in the end he single handily decided how this day went, and I don't like that. He could have done his little stunt later in the day and give us the chance to talk about other stuff instead of what we got now.
It's obviously Launch at the top of my list.
Deapite people saying I've selfishly made the day "all about myself", I'm pretty sure that if we do arrive at a lynch today, it will have been through a much more reasoned and substantial process than whatever you guys would have probably done (kill SalvaPot, probably).
Ideally? Launch and I would tie and there wouldn't be a lynch. That gives us the votes to look at AND the no-lynch I seek.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
I'll post more in a bit but...
This is standard stuff. My vote on you was 50% joking, 50% throwing a random vote out. I can't speak for everyone else that put a vote on you, but it's obvious I wasn't being completely serious. I'm sorry you felt I was being hostile.
This is standard stuff. My vote on you was 50% joking, 50% throwing a random vote out. I can't speak for everyone else that put a vote on you, but it's obvious I wasn't being completely serious. I'm sorry you felt I was being hostile.
I would still rather have the votes to look at + the alignment of a person, but at least this will be better than a orchestrated no lynch vote which will give us no information at all. But I think that trying to orchestrate an on purpose tie is very tricky.
I kept the Darryl section and my own because those are the only ones I'd like to comment on for now. I will agree that after I submitted my first post, I was surprised to go back up and read that someone else had placed a vote on Darryl. Mine was 100% random, of that I promise. I know that you don't agree with the opening hostility but it's a necessary part of the game and as such I will always open with a vote. Because I don't come into games caring about past play, RNG is the only factor I can employ and a RNG pulled a 4 for me so that's what I went with for that opener.
Launch was that other vote which didn't come off quite as random, it came off more as trying to purposely mess with Darryl. Maybe he is trying to play this game extremely aggressively? That's how he has come off so far in everything he has done. As I said before, I'm all for hostility because conflict breeds discussion which breeds lies which is what I want to see because catching someone in a lie is usually going to lead to scum but Launch has stuck to the hostility through and through instead of stepping back to analyze how people have acted towards his aggression. This isn't me trying to say one thing or another about his alignment, this is me just analyzing his situation.
In regards to the bolded, I can tell you now that my intention is to vote for you. This gambit of yours has been enlightening and has given us some info to go on but because of the nature of the gambit, letting you hang about is too dangerous.
I do expect to hear from everyone more. The two most alarming to me are Prodigy, who I feel was/is around watching the game but just has avoided posting purposely or Retro who did promise us a post last night and never delivered.
Well, it should be clear that nobody has voted No Lynch, including myself.
Honestly can't tell how day #2 looks from your eyes if you think it is going to be better based on everything people have said #1
I was in the middle of a weekend and I checked the thread and was actually pretty pissed off by the immediate need to defend nothing at all. What I'm trying to say is that it isn't just me getting voting on, it's the community style of excessive aggression to build info. For me at least, I've found the most damning posts done quite casually when players are under little pressure to say anything. The heavy aggression is being used around here a lot. I'm still new at mafia but I find that it throws off my particular style of scum hunting, so I really despise it. It's also NO FUN.
This sounds oddly hypocritical. Your style of play is to be overly hostile, to the point of random cursing, in an effort to throw the person you're talking with off of their game and make them feel uncomfortable. The narrative that is forming is interesting only because both you and Kark have said the same things on it and I'd imagine that it's making some people feel that being aggressive is going to lead to people turning on them but that isn't the case. A complacent town is exactly what mafia players want, an aggressive attitude is needed in moderation.
No but you were the most prolific advocate for a no lynch day 1 right from the start.So In your eyes, what is the best way to do a no lynch? Voting for a tie on purpose may give us some votes to look at, but A) it is more risky, it could go wrong and B) if people know we are going to do that, they will adapt their vote on that and we will not get everyone's real vote preference. A no lynch vote on the other hand will be less risky, but also give us less information. So just out of curiosity: if we had agreed with you to do a no lynch day 1, how would you have orchestrated that?
Yeah, don't agree with you on that one Dazza (yeah that's right, fuck your name, i'll call you my own flavour). Aggression does produce results and has in other games here.
No I'm talking about literally right out the fucking gate. Jesus. Stop talking about things you aren't paying attention to.
I'm aware that you mean right out of the gate? I just don't care, aggression early and often is fine by me. You seem to be aggressive always, it doesn't add up to me.
I haven't even been aggressive in this thread until you started getting on my case about garbage
Hey Darryl, you got any thoughts on Kark at this point?
Other than this, which I agree with.
Other than this, which I agree with.
I should probably hold off posting until I have enough time to say everything I want to but I'm feeling chatty and people can just fill in the blanks or ask me about stuff later.
I don't buy the story Kark is trying to sell so I want to make sure I understand what's going on:
Kark says he notices a pattern in games where townies are unnecessarily aggressive toward each other and it creates an environment where mafia can blend in by hiding behind innocent townie mistakes. He votes himself in a symbolic gesture, stating "come at me, if you want to mislynch someone, mislynch me." His solution to the problem of unnecessary aggression is for everyone to either work together AND NO-LYNCH, or to lynch an innocent townie (him).
If Kark is town he is 100% certain of exactly one person's alignment, his own. It doesn't make sense for Kark to want to lynch the one person he knows is town. So that's annoying, but it also doesn't make sense for mafia to do this, so the self vote is not what makes Kark mafia.
What does make sense for mafia to do is create a thread environment where people are punished for pursuing their reads and putting pressure on each other (re Launch). All of the aggression this game has been reasonable. Darryl got voted easily, and was unvoted just as easily when he responded. Kark did stuff that 1) doesn't make sense for town to do (self vote) and 2) actually hurts town (hard claiming for no reason). It is very reasonable for Kark to be pressured for these plays.
And... Kark's read post is a lot of words and not many of them are alignment indicative. Most of that post is about whether or not people have agreed with him and whether people are aggressive or not.
If you look at cabbeh's reads post it reads as: this guy is <alignment> for <reason>. That is what town is interested in.
If you look at Karks reads post it reads as: this guy doesn't agree with me and this is why he's wrong, or this guy is aggressive and this is why aggression is bad.
And he picks on Blarg of all people and I like Blarg because he feels good. Townies are more likely to feel good than mafia. That's just science.
I don't buy the story Kark is trying to sell so I want to make sure I understand what's going on:
Kark says he notices a pattern in games where townies are unnecessarily aggressive toward each other and it creates an environment where mafia can blend in by hiding behind innocent townie mistakes. He votes himself in a symbolic gesture, stating "come at me, if you want to mislynch someone, mislynch me." His solution to the problem of unnecessary aggression is for everyone to either work together AND NO-LYNCH, or to lynch an innocent townie (him).
If Kark is town he is 100% certain of exactly one person's alignment, his own. It doesn't make sense for Kark to want to lynch the one person he knows is town. So that's annoying, but it also doesn't make sense for mafia to do this, so the self vote is not what makes Kark mafia.
What does make sense for mafia to do is create a thread environment where people are punished for pursuing their reads and putting pressure on each other (re Launch). All of the aggression this game has been reasonable. Darryl got voted easily, and was unvoted just as easily when he responded. Kark did stuff that 1) doesn't make sense for town to do (self vote) and 2) actually hurts town (hard claiming for no reason). It is very reasonable for Kark to be pressured for these plays.
And... Kark's read post is a lot of words and not many of them are alignment indicative. Most of that post is about whether or not people have agreed with him and whether people are aggressive or not.
If you look at cabbeh's reads post it reads as: this guy is <alignment> for <reason>. That is what town is interested in.
If you look at Karks reads post it reads as: this guy doesn't agree with me and this is why he's wrong, or this guy is aggressive and this is why aggression is bad.
And he picks on Blarg of all people and I like Blarg because he feels good. Townies are more likely to feel good than mafia. That's just science.
He has sat in a weirdo uncomfortable limbo between trying for Launch and pushing for a no evict for a long time now
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
Ok, Karkador, mate. Lets get this shit sorted out. Please.
Do you realize how anti-town this is going right now? If you flip town, Im on the block for tomorrow, and then were going to have wasted 2 day phases killing off townies. Help me believe that were making a mistake here. If youre town, you need to drop the bullshit already.
http://neogaf.net/forum/showpost.php?p=176955439&postcount=533
http://neogaf.net/forum/showpost.php?p=176975197&postcount=599
http://neogaf.net/forum/showpost.php?p=177004310&postcount=709
These are the posts you didnt respond to, that are directed at you. Why did you ignore them?
If you dont want to read them, then my questions are these:
What was your original intent in roleclaiming? I dont see a scenario where this is a pro-town choice, at all. Even if its to prove a dumb point.
Why do you keep lying about what Im saying? You keep saying I dont want responsibility; Ive already taken responsibility. Why do you insist on saying things I didnt say?
And since were on the topic, why has no one addressed this discrediting? Nobody is acknowledging that Karkador is blatantly lying and misconstruing my words. You know who else did this? Darryl did in the AC game. This is such a strong indication of scum. Hes become more focused on tearing me down than defending himself.
Look dude, I apologize. Im not going to stop being aggressive just based on this, but I apologize that I contributed to unfounded pressure, even though I was half-joking and its only because we have a history in the AC game that I put a vote on you in the first place.
Frankly, though, Im not sure how its anti-town when the more aggressive member in our community, squidy, was a town in the AC game. Nobody else called him out as being anti-town.
Do you realize how anti-town this is going right now? If you flip town, Im on the block for tomorrow, and then were going to have wasted 2 day phases killing off townies. Help me believe that were making a mistake here. If youre town, you need to drop the bullshit already.
http://neogaf.net/forum/showpost.php?p=176955439&postcount=533
http://neogaf.net/forum/showpost.php?p=176975197&postcount=599
http://neogaf.net/forum/showpost.php?p=177004310&postcount=709
These are the posts you didnt respond to, that are directed at you. Why did you ignore them?
If you dont want to read them, then my questions are these:
What was your original intent in roleclaiming? I dont see a scenario where this is a pro-town choice, at all. Even if its to prove a dumb point.
Why do you keep lying about what Im saying? You keep saying I dont want responsibility; Ive already taken responsibility. Why do you insist on saying things I didnt say?
And since were on the topic, why has no one addressed this discrediting? Nobody is acknowledging that Karkador is blatantly lying and misconstruing my words. You know who else did this? Darryl did in the AC game. This is such a strong indication of scum. Hes become more focused on tearing me down than defending himself.
Darryl said:
Look dude, I apologize. Im not going to stop being aggressive just based on this, but I apologize that I contributed to unfounded pressure, even though I was half-joking and its only because we have a history in the AC game that I put a vote on you in the first place.
Frankly, though, Im not sure how its anti-town when the more aggressive member in our community, squidy, was a town in the AC game. Nobody else called him out as being anti-town.
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