Okay you guys are talking heaps and tons here with lot of stuff happening, so I wont comment on absolutely everything, just some stuff. I was going to talk lot more about Karkador, but we have a new player in the field Cabbeh who claims to be a miller.
Case Cabbeh:
So Cabbeh is claiming Miller. Some stuff Cabbeh said during his post (like the notes about how he referenced his role early-on) makes me kind of think that Cabbe might be legit here. But at the same time, Miller is the best possible role-claim they could make at this point. Miller is one of the rarer roles of Mafia, Im not even sure if GAFia even has had any Millers before (someone who knows more about this should clarify maybe). With a miller-claim Cabbeh could easily make himself a player who town trusts even if cop-seer would check him. Look, its already working:
Look Bats, we Scum-read players who are claiming themselves the most useful PR for scum to claim from out of the whole game. Its not exactly rocket science. I will give that Bats has some legitimate points about Cabbeh, but it doesn't do enough to help with my unease.
That said, Im not completely comfortable with lynching Cabbeh. The notes of him referencing to his earlier posts are noteworthy, and I kind of would think a claim like this would be made only after some votes. Cabbeh didnt have any real pressure on him when he made his claim, which kind of makes him look bit more like town.
It could be a way to make the seer effectively waste a night in him though. With just 15 players, Cop is even more valuable than ever now to the town.
Moving on
Case Batsnacks:
Reading through last ten pages or soh as made me feel more concerned about Batsnacks than before to add to the points I mentioned earlier about him. Stuff to mention:
1. He keeps accusing people of things that he actually has made before himself.
Batsnack was basically saying that Sorians claim about one of the three in KarkLauchBats is a scum was reaching yet he had earlier said that one of the five silent people (most of whom even had a good reason for their silence!) is mafia.
2. He keeps telling us vocally about his townyness and contributions to the game with no real backing to it.
Sorry, but this is so weird. Lot of Batsys messages in the last ten pages have been him telling us about his towny deeds and towny behaviour and his contributions to the game, which rubs me the wrong way.
Examples:
No, you are not. What you have been doing is latched into easy-target Karkador, and I havent seen you really pushing the thread going at all.
No to this again. People started to look at Karkador more after Launch posted his detailed post about why he thinks Karkadors actions were questionable. Only one who really responded to your vote was Sorian.
It was an easy vote, since there was time between Launchs vote and yours it probable you saw it. Also in your vote you really didnt say much, half of that post was you hoping Sorian would join the bandwagon too. After that your push limited to two short-ish posts with other basically just saying I think lynching Kark is good. Thats not a push.
Its odd Bats is going to this angle, posting multiple posts reminding us about his deeds. Its in heavy contrast with
3. He has posted fillery fluff
Seriously, he has some fluffy fillery posts in there for no real apparent reason.
Mind you, its not like the majority of his posts are fluffy, but I think its weird for Batsy to say that he is towniest towner pushing the game forward, when this is not the case. Also I saw it weird that Batsy basically said that Blarg was towny because he got towny-vibes from him, but at that point most of the interaction between the two was through this fillery exhanges.
When Im at it, Blarg, dont post too much filler either, it clutters the thread and makes it much more unreadable.
4. So what does the points above me say about anything?
Right now I feel like the points above me push my thoughts about Batsys alignment to the Scum side. If Batsy is experienced player, then experienced member of town should have no real reason to remind us multiple times about his contributions to the game and townyness. There is absolutely no real point to it, I think, since it doesnt really add anything to the table for the town to look at, especially since the posts are contradictiory with reality.
However, a scum wants to make himself look like a useful player who is worth keeping in the game, so posts like that make more sense. Batsnacks the scum would want to create an illusion of a contibutive, well-meaning player. Getting that contributive, towny feel to other people is ideal for a scum from the beginning, since that would make them suspect scum less in the future of the game. Obviously this has some-what failed, since lot of people have mentioned that Bats is suspicious to some level.
What I am trying to say is, show, dont tell. Show me that you are actually pushing the game forward, show me that you are actually a good contributive towner. Dont just say it to me like its a fact, because that is scummy especially in day 1.
Vote: batsnacks
5. Other things about Bats.
Before moving on to other things, few things about Bats still.
It kinda escaped me, but how does the alignment of Bats relate to Kark? I do agree that one of the three is possibly a scum, but I want to hear more of your insight in this.
Also is it just me, but Bats seems to be really sure that there is four members of Mafia? In his second post about people he doesnt remember, he mentions it again with not really thinking about three mafia members, which seems more likely to me, to be honest. I could make a hypothesis that he knows the amount of scums because he is one of them, but that is too much of a leap to make.
One more case to go through..
Case Karkador:
Not really that much has happened in Karkador side of things. I agree that Karks actions do not fit into the profile of the minion really. It does not completely shut down the idea of a minion though, especially if Cabbeh really is the Miller, which too is kind of a rare role at least in the games I have played later on.
In general I still feel really unsure about Karkador. As I mentioned before, his actions dont fit the profile of a scum or a towner well at all. If he is a scum, its ridiculously unnecessary gamble, that could potentially kill one third of the mafia off, one fourth in the best case. But if he is a towner, he is drawing a huge aim on his head and potentially giving mafia a chance to make their list of potential power roles even smaller, even though Ourobolos made a fair point that mafia might not really be able to figure out if Kark is talking the truth or not.
There is a good point in this post, however. Kark might have been trying to look at who people are quickly latching on to a easy target he drew on himself. One of those people was Bats, so it kind of fits my idea that Bats is a scum.
----
I was going to post reads on all players today, but then I saw +10 new pages after I had time to open up the computer, so that was gone with that. If possible, Ill post those tomorrow, provided that Im not greeted with +20 new pages.
Case Cabbeh:
So Cabbeh is claiming Miller. Some stuff Cabbeh said during his post (like the notes about how he referenced his role early-on) makes me kind of think that Cabbe might be legit here. But at the same time, Miller is the best possible role-claim they could make at this point. Miller is one of the rarer roles of Mafia, Im not even sure if GAFia even has had any Millers before (someone who knows more about this should clarify maybe). With a miller-claim Cabbeh could easily make himself a player who town trusts even if cop-seer would check him. Look, its already working:
Look Bats, we Scum-read players who are claiming themselves the most useful PR for scum to claim from out of the whole game. Its not exactly rocket science. I will give that Bats has some legitimate points about Cabbeh, but it doesn't do enough to help with my unease.
That said, Im not completely comfortable with lynching Cabbeh. The notes of him referencing to his earlier posts are noteworthy, and I kind of would think a claim like this would be made only after some votes. Cabbeh didnt have any real pressure on him when he made his claim, which kind of makes him look bit more like town.
It could be a way to make the seer effectively waste a night in him though. With just 15 players, Cop is even more valuable than ever now to the town.
Moving on
Case Batsnacks:
Reading through last ten pages or soh as made me feel more concerned about Batsnacks than before to add to the points I mentioned earlier about him. Stuff to mention:
1. He keeps accusing people of things that he actually has made before himself.
Batsnack was basically saying that Sorians claim about one of the three in KarkLauchBats is a scum was reaching yet he had earlier said that one of the five silent people (most of whom even had a good reason for their silence!) is mafia.
2. He keeps telling us vocally about his townyness and contributions to the game with no real backing to it.
Sorry, but this is so weird. Lot of Batsys messages in the last ten pages have been him telling us about his towny deeds and towny behaviour and his contributions to the game, which rubs me the wrong way.
Examples:
No, you are not. What you have been doing is latched into easy-target Karkador, and I havent seen you really pushing the thread going at all.
No to this again. People started to look at Karkador more after Launch posted his detailed post about why he thinks Karkadors actions were questionable. Only one who really responded to your vote was Sorian.
It was an easy vote, since there was time between Launchs vote and yours it probable you saw it. Also in your vote you really didnt say much, half of that post was you hoping Sorian would join the bandwagon too. After that your push limited to two short-ish posts with other basically just saying I think lynching Kark is good. Thats not a push.
Its odd Bats is going to this angle, posting multiple posts reminding us about his deeds. Its in heavy contrast with
3. He has posted fillery fluff
Seriously, he has some fluffy fillery posts in there for no real apparent reason.
Mind you, its not like the majority of his posts are fluffy, but I think its weird for Batsy to say that he is towniest towner pushing the game forward, when this is not the case. Also I saw it weird that Batsy basically said that Blarg was towny because he got towny-vibes from him, but at that point most of the interaction between the two was through this fillery exhanges.
When Im at it, Blarg, dont post too much filler either, it clutters the thread and makes it much more unreadable.
4. So what does the points above me say about anything?
Right now I feel like the points above me push my thoughts about Batsys alignment to the Scum side. If Batsy is experienced player, then experienced member of town should have no real reason to remind us multiple times about his contributions to the game and townyness. There is absolutely no real point to it, I think, since it doesnt really add anything to the table for the town to look at, especially since the posts are contradictiory with reality.
However, a scum wants to make himself look like a useful player who is worth keeping in the game, so posts like that make more sense. Batsnacks the scum would want to create an illusion of a contibutive, well-meaning player. Getting that contributive, towny feel to other people is ideal for a scum from the beginning, since that would make them suspect scum less in the future of the game. Obviously this has some-what failed, since lot of people have mentioned that Bats is suspicious to some level.
What I am trying to say is, show, dont tell. Show me that you are actually pushing the game forward, show me that you are actually a good contributive towner. Dont just say it to me like its a fact, because that is scummy especially in day 1.
Vote: batsnacks
5. Other things about Bats.
Before moving on to other things, few things about Bats still.
It kinda escaped me, but how does the alignment of Bats relate to Kark? I do agree that one of the three is possibly a scum, but I want to hear more of your insight in this.
Also is it just me, but Bats seems to be really sure that there is four members of Mafia? In his second post about people he doesnt remember, he mentions it again with not really thinking about three mafia members, which seems more likely to me, to be honest. I could make a hypothesis that he knows the amount of scums because he is one of them, but that is too much of a leap to make.
One more case to go through..
Case Karkador:
Not really that much has happened in Karkador side of things. I agree that Karks actions do not fit into the profile of the minion really. It does not completely shut down the idea of a minion though, especially if Cabbeh really is the Miller, which too is kind of a rare role at least in the games I have played later on.
In general I still feel really unsure about Karkador. As I mentioned before, his actions dont fit the profile of a scum or a towner well at all. If he is a scum, its ridiculously unnecessary gamble, that could potentially kill one third of the mafia off, one fourth in the best case. But if he is a towner, he is drawing a huge aim on his head and potentially giving mafia a chance to make their list of potential power roles even smaller, even though Ourobolos made a fair point that mafia might not really be able to figure out if Kark is talking the truth or not.
There is a good point in this post, however. Kark might have been trying to look at who people are quickly latching on to a easy target he drew on himself. One of those people was Bats, so it kind of fits my idea that Bats is a scum.
----
I was going to post reads on all players today, but then I saw +10 new pages after I had time to open up the computer, so that was gone with that. If possible, Ill post those tomorrow, provided that Im not greeted with +20 new pages.
R version of the post at the top of this page, I don't think you are pushing the game forward or are doing really towny things at all. What you are doing here is that you keep telling us you are doing that.