OceanicAir
Member
I once saw a hilariously short game where everybody was a jester, everybody tried to get themselves lynched lol.
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I once saw a hilariously short game where everybody was a jester, everybody tried to get themselves lynched lol.
1. I think the more the merrier.
2-3. No matter what, we should have a signup thread in the OT. There's tons of people who don't lurk much in the community forum.
4. Crab should get first dibs, but if not, we can pick others. I think the alternatives should be people with some experience hosting a mafia game, and can handle the workload.
5. We should keep the shortened day phases. Also, we should keep the prodding mechanism. So if a person doesn't post at least once during the day phase, they get a prod. I think after a majority vote is reached, people should be allowed to chat until the host posts the final results. However, there should be a strict deadline. So if the vote ends at 7pm eastern, any vote after this deadline won't count.
The game should start on a day phase, to give Barrylocke a few days to live.
I'm fine with keeping the roles secret.
If we have a similar amount of people signed up for the next game, I think we should get at least 5 mafia, just to up the challenge a bit.
I think "ghosting" should be an informal thing. Such as if the host takes a longer than usual time to post the results.
Better yet, maybe we can have a secret forum for dead townies?
Reminds me of a round of Battlestar Galactica boardgame where we forgot to add cylons to the deck. So everybody freaked out because we could not find a traitor.
We had that happen before. Things were going suspiciously well for mankind and we eventually had to call a friend to have him look at everyone's cards to confirm we'd screwed up. It was great.
Barrylocke
Member
Concerning day length, I think we should probably leave it at 4 days for one day phase for now. It definitely was a bit lengthy with 7 days at first, but we also want to make sure that we have enough time for people who are involved in real life activities to get enough time to look at the thread and be able to you participate.
Played Dead of Winter recently where two betrayers got dealt in. I was going last in a round, and could tank everything to win, so imagine my surprise when the player right before me started tanking everything instead.
Edit:
I liked the 96 hour day phase. I wouldn't want any phase to be less than 72 hours. If it fell across a weekend, it would be very akward for a lot of people, I think. I'm not sure what delayed the Night phases so much this game, but anything that can be done to prevent that would be nice.
What if we've never hosted, but have the time to put in the work and learn how to do it right?
Lord of Castamere
Member
If we keep the current day cycle the next will still be short. Going the extremely short route doesn't sound good. If people need it to stop boredom fine, but I prefer the time to analyze.
I don't think concurrent games are necessary, I can't see enough new people overtakeing the amount of old players not returning.
I don't think concurrent games are necessary, I can't see enough new people overtakeing the amount of old players not returning.
OceanicAir
Member
Mafia: 999 edition?
RobotNinjaHornets
Banned
I'd be up for another game. Hopefully I won't be mafia again though. I can't deal with that shit for another 3 or 4 months.
EDIT: Zero Escape Mafia!
EDIT: Zero Escape Mafia!
i would looooove to modify the mafia game into some weird "everyone has a number, you can only do things in certain team-ups" type of game.
In person, I would never let someone try to host until they've played several games, and even then I would probably assist them the first time. Too easy to mess something small up, and throw the game. Forum is a little easier since you can at least double check everything before you hit submit. That said, even Crab made a few small mistakes, like with Nin1000's save, and a slip up involving Ultron in the Mafia forum. It can feel really bad to get someone killed because of a typo!
irfaanator
Banned
yea Im down for a shorter game.. either in players or time for each day. A lot of time was wasted imo just waiting
RobotNinjaHornets
Banned
Just saying, I would buy the shit out of a ZE-based board game
Personally, I'd like more fresh faces in the next game. I'd be willing to sit out the next one if it meant another newcomer playing.
Also, I think I mentioned this earlier, but I was interested in running a videogame-themed Spyfall game on GAF. It would be a little less administration, shorter, and lighter.
Same. More than once, I've considered just making one myself.
Also, I think I mentioned this earlier, but I was interested in running a videogame-themed Spyfall game on GAF. It would be a little less administration, shorter, and lighter.
Same. More than once, I've considered just making one myself.
Barrylocke
Member
I think if the game is shortened, we should look at players before days. Going with 2 or even 3 days seems too fast paced to me, and thats before factoring the real life schedules.
If the interest is still where it was before, then possibly look at 2 games of 12-16.
If the interest is still where it was before, then possibly look at 2 games of 12-16.
True. I've been playing mafia in person for years and hosted a couple quick and dirty games, but this was my first time doing forum mafia.
Maybe a good compromise between the 4 day cycle, and the old 7 day cycle is 5 days. I like 5 days.
I also don't think we should have concurrent games. We should concentrate on one game at a time. I don't dig the idea of splitting the player count. A bigger player count means more interesting roles, and more mafia scum to worry about.
Now if we somehow end up with 100 players, then yeah, two mafia games might be necessary. But I don't see that happening!
That might have been in the board game thread. I do remember it being brought up though. How would you deal with the timer for it?
It also means Barrylocke has to sit out for 6 months instead of 3 months when he dies on Night 1 again. Your opinion might be skewed by having survived the whole time this game.
RobotNinjaHornets
Banned
Just looked that up, seems interesting. I'd be happy to sit out in favour of that as well.
If you do host, consider getting some tips and tricks from Crab. See how he did things when he hosted.
If Crab does decide to pass the mantle, we should lynch the person we want to host next.
Barrylocke
Member
Jokes aside, I think meta reasons to lynch should be an absolute last resort. If someone lets me live purely because I died first last time, I'll be disappointed 
Jokes aside, I think meta reasons to lynch should be an absolute last resort. If someone lets me live purely because I died first last time, I'll be disappointed
Did you get any amusement out of us bindly lynching Rembrandt based on his post count compared to yours?
Barrylocke
Member
Yes because I was almost certain it wouldnt work. Mafia members tend to post less, yes, but at those levels Im sure that the other people in the evil circle would perer them to at least do token posts to keep the heat off.
I think that depends a lot on the condition. Something like a jester is just ludicrous, especially if the town doesn't know about it. Something like Karkador in this round? Totally fine. Might be hard to balance though.
irfaanator
Banned
yea same
Lord of Castamere
Member
This was my first experience with Mafia in general.
Hopefully in the next game more people will be overly active at the beginning to make you less of a target.
Jokes aside, I think meta reasons to lynch should be an absolute last resort. If someone lets me live purely because I died first last time, I'll be disappointed
Hopefully in the next game more people will be overly active at the beginning to make you less of a target.
Barrylocke
Member
Ive occasionally seen games with joint conditions, in other words win conditions that don't disrupt the normal win conditions of the game. An example is the Survivor, who has to simply make it to the end of the game to win and their win doesnt disruot the mafia/town win.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Interest dictates numbers in my experience. Much larger than 27 and games can become very difficult to manage. About half of players in this game had abilities, which means each night I'm having to tend to 13 different things - strictly speaking less than that because a fair few roles are passive, but it's a fair amount of work. Smaller than 15 or so and I don't think you'll be able to sustain a proper community.
You could probably dig up the thread I used to recruit all you guys.
In all honesty, I simply don't have the time. This game ran a fair bit longer than I expected, partly because there were more game-days as mafia and killer didn't co-ordinate kills well so numbers only thinned slowly, and secondly because we over-ran almost every single night with people getting commands in. Also I got banned.
I was expecting us to finish about three weeks ago at most, so I've been struggling to juggle it lately as life has picked up for me. I'd happily play, but organizing is a lot to do.I think Day Phase length is about right. 7 days works fine for more experienced players but I think it left you guys milling around a fair bit. I'd consider extending Night Phases by one IRL day, simply because they never ran to time anyway. I can't think of many other rules that need changing. Ultimately, though, it's at the host's discretion.
One of my first thoughts about your Star Wars thing was to have two bounty hunters, town aligned. They know each other. They each have two kills a game, one a direct blaster kill at night, the other a thermal detonator they can use to booby trap a room, killing the next visitor to that room. Cannot kill each other directly. Only one can win with town; either the last left alive, or the one who killed the most Mafia by the end of the game if they're both alive or both dead.
They'd be simultaneously trying to help town while sandbagging each other. It does potentially add a bunch of kills to the game, so I wouldn't include any other killing roles on town side. The nature of the booby trap also means they risk killing town power roles.
Just a quick idea for something with slightly different win conditions that doesn't unbalance a game.
This is pretty much what I was thinking. I had a few other ideas too, but I was mostly thinking bounty hunters when I posted that (because what's a Star Wars story without them?)
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
My advice is not to design your setup around your theme; but instead your theme around your setup. If you start with "let's make this Star Wars!" and then go "hmm, we need Jedi, what would Jedi do, maybe a town role with a kill per night?", then before you know it you end up with a lot of powerful roles that don't make a cohesive set-up. When I sat down to make this, I thought very carefully about how the different pieces fit together - for example, the Sleepwalkers can distract both the Peeping Tom and the Shadow, but in different ways because one sees who has visited someone and one sees if someone is visiting. Each side sees a bit of the puzzle, but not the whole thing. The mechanics of the roles came first, and then I added flavour.
I've started writing ideas down, and I've mostly been using the roles you did with a couple changes here or there, then fitting the character names to the roles.
For example, I just changed the name of "ordinary town folk" to something more Star Wars-y like "moisture farmer", stuff like that. You're definitely right, the function of the roles should come first.
Note for whoever ends up hosting:
If you want to go the route where all roles are known before they're assigned to players, you can get feedback on balance before the game actually starts. It may be a good idea if you're worried.
I didn't enjoy the hidden roles at the start of the game, but enjoyed the dynamic around the time Ultron revealed. Not sure which I prefer now.
Edit:
Use these for more roles:
https://epicmafia.com/role
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Category:Roles_Main_Page
I spent like 3 hours trying to find another role to explain my lies after Staydead died.
Also, don't copy Crab's game too closely. Common roles are common, but you really want each game to have something a little bit distinct from the previous.
If you want to go the route where all roles are known before they're assigned to players, you can get feedback on balance before the game actually starts. It may be a good idea if you're worried.
I didn't enjoy the hidden roles at the start of the game, but enjoyed the dynamic around the time Ultron revealed. Not sure which I prefer now.
Edit:
Use these for more roles:
https://epicmafia.com/role
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Category:Roles_Main_Page
I spent like 3 hours trying to find another role to explain my lies after Staydead died.
Also, don't copy Crab's game too closely. Common roles are common, but you really want each game to have something a little bit distinct from the previous.
If Barrylocke has to wait 10 years. So be it!
jokes aside, if we reach 36-40 players, I can see a good reason to split that group into two games. Even with a 120 hour day phase, and 96 hour night phase, it could take 4-5 months for the game to finish. And it's a lot of players to juggle with.
But if the signups are under 36 players, it should be just one game imo.
Alternatively, we could launch one mafia game right now. And then after a certain time (like 3 months), another mafia game could be launched regardless if the original game has finished. That way, dead townies wont have wait too long for a new game.
People still playing in the original game could also sign up for this new game. Of course, trying to keep up with two mafia games at the same time could be an issue, but eh.
johnnyquicknives
Member
I think a 4/3 day/night split would probably work quite well. I think in the initial stages the game suffered a bit with 7days as there were definite lulls in activity when no-one really had much to say, and when no-one was saying anything there was nothing else to analyse.
Like Crab mentioned stretching night phases by a day makes sense simply because people weren't responding quickly enough and I'm guessing a lot of people post more when they're at work rather than over the weekend. It also fits a week neatly so we would always know, for example, that mon-thurs were day phase and fri-sun night phase which would hopefully keep people more involved.
In terms of game size it will really depend on the host, its a pretty big time commitment even with these numbers (remember we were signing up in December and it's almost May!!). I think when it reaches 35-40 players it would probably be worth splitting to 2 smaller games.
For recruiting new players, I guess we can just judge interest first. Maybe create a new OT thread (or resurrect the old one) post a link here for anyone still following the game and then see how many new people are into it. It's probably worth being pretty clear in the recruiting thread just how long a commitment it is both in terms of game length and time invested analysing and crafting posts. I spent a lot longer than I expected to on it, and that was only in the early stages before all the crazy twists and turns.
Also noting down my interest for a Spyfall game, would work well over shorter time periods.
Like Crab mentioned stretching night phases by a day makes sense simply because people weren't responding quickly enough and I'm guessing a lot of people post more when they're at work rather than over the weekend. It also fits a week neatly so we would always know, for example, that mon-thurs were day phase and fri-sun night phase which would hopefully keep people more involved.
In terms of game size it will really depend on the host, its a pretty big time commitment even with these numbers (remember we were signing up in December and it's almost May!!). I think when it reaches 35-40 players it would probably be worth splitting to 2 smaller games.
For recruiting new players, I guess we can just judge interest first. Maybe create a new OT thread (or resurrect the old one) post a link here for anyone still following the game and then see how many new people are into it. It's probably worth being pretty clear in the recruiting thread just how long a commitment it is both in terms of game length and time invested analysing and crafting posts. I spent a lot longer than I expected to on it, and that was only in the early stages before all the crazy twists and turns.
Also noting down my interest for a Spyfall game, would work well over shorter time periods.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
It's complicated because the amount of mafia:town doesn't scale perfectly - e.g., 2 mafia 9 town is balanced, 4 mafia 18 town is heavily mafia-sided, assuming no roles. It gets even more complicated with roles and you have to guess your way around a fair bit and judge based on your experience.
I might sit this one out in terms of playing and just act as an advisor for whoever ends up hosting, so you can drop me a PM to check the balance of a set you come up with.
EDIT: I'd definitely expect future games to go quicker than this one, by a month at the least. We were still figuring out the format here and settling in. Now that we have a pool of experienced players, I'd expect things to run better.
irfaanator
Banned
crab gonna be a player and use his intellect to win the game for his team. until kaboteur stops him
Zippedpinhead
Member
Count me in on a new game, I'll play any theme.
I thought the amount of players was good. I also thought the game moved a lot better once we moved to the 4:3 day/night phases.
I liked the "ghosting" that occurred at the end of the game, but I understand that it really shouldn't happen until that point.
I loved trying to figure it all out and the whole "who can I trust" dynamic.
I thought the amount of players was good. I also thought the game moved a lot better once we moved to the 4:3 day/night phases.
I liked the "ghosting" that occurred at the end of the game, but I understand that it really shouldn't happen until that point.
I loved trying to figure it all out and the whole "who can I trust" dynamic.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Just a word as I missed this earlier, but Open Setups [where all of the roles are known beforehand] as opposed to Closed Setups [roles are secret like this one] are very, very, very difficult to balance properly for large player counts. It's very easy to 'break' games by having all the roles claim. Mafia then has to counter-claim - pretend they're a role they're not. If the number of counter-claims is less than the number of remaining days, it's impossible for mafia to win. This means games tend to be very swingy - even if you start with a small amount of known roles so mafia can't do this, the moment enough have been killed this is true, mafia have effectively lost. I'd never use an Open Setup at 27 players like we did for this, it'd be close to impossible to make it work.
Lord of Castamere
Member
We should start building a list on who's returning for the next game. First come first serve is stupid, IMO, if we run over we can decide who's in the same way we decide roles.
It looks like our current candidates for hosting a new game are tomakasatnav, Karkador, and MattyG. Let me know if I missed anyone!
Should we let you three hash it out? Do a vote? Deathmatch?
I nominate you to wrangle the players! I bumped the original thread a little while ago.
Should we let you three hash it out? Do a vote? Deathmatch?
I nominate you to wrangle the players! I bumped the original thread a little while ago.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
In the event this second round gets more players than the number the host needs to full his set, I'd recommend prioritizing new players. The bigger the community that can be built, the more games there will be in the long run and more different types of games, so I think expansion and outreach should be a priority right now, even if the unfortunately means a few people who want to return have to sit out. Secondly, from a fairness perspective, returning players who got killed early should get a priority over those killed late; i.e. Barrylocke gets first dibs after newcomers are done.
We usually do it similar to that. New players > non-mafia players in order they were killed > Mafia in order they were killed.
We put Mafia last cause they usually have the most fun, and they tend to get ganked fairly quickly by vengeful players anyway.
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