oh... kay?
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Magic: the GAFering |OT2|
- Thread starter The Technomancer
- Start date
oh... kay?
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Shroud for less than 5 and has a funny name!
It's a modern deck.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Modern Masters reprint?!?
acheron_xl
Member
Silhana Ledgewalker?
I dunno. I only play EDH. :/
I dunno. I only play EDH. :/
Limited-only card.
acheron_xl
Member
That hurts. He's carried many auras for me.
Hexproof is on the level of Storm in terms of broken mechanics. And like Storm, they keep going back, thinking they have "fixed" it.
FieryBalrog
Member
It's OK in very small doses.
Silhana Ledgewalker used to be a go-to card for Mono Green Stompy. Times have changed eh.
Silhana Ledgewalker used to be a go-to card for Mono Green Stompy. Times have changed eh.
What I don't get is why they even came up with it, and as an "improvement" over shourd, even.
Over time, they pushed creatures and made instants/sorceries weaker overall to avoid non-interactive game states, and shroud was kind of non-interactive, despite being equal for both players.
Hexproof, on the other side, not only doesn't let other players interact with the creature with a huge majority of spells and abilities, but it also makes otherwise unplayable cards such as auras (not counting outstanding ones such as Rancor) ridiculously overpowered, simply based on the fact that the built-in risk of 2-for-1ing yourself when playing an aura on a regular creature doesn't even exist on a hexproof creature. Stuff such as Ethereal Armor or Spectral Flight were only played because there were hexproof creatures you could use to render their inherent weakness as aura cards moot while enjoying the juicy bonuses they granted.
If they don't want to go back to shroud, I'd much rather have them drop untargetable abilities entirely as a keyword than keeping hexproof around.
divisionbyzorro
Member
I like Hexproof on otherwise big dumb green cards. If green can't interact with its opponents except by using creatures, it should have options to keep its opponents from interacting with its creatures. So, for example, I think Thrun is a totally fair card.
I don't like it on "small" creatures because of the potential for abuse with auras (see the Modern Boglepants decks that are incredibly obnoxious).
There's no reason for blue to have Hexproof. You can give me all of the "flavor" reasons why it makes sense, but from a game balance perspective it shouldn't work that way.
I don't like it on "small" creatures because of the potential for abuse with auras (see the Modern Boglepants decks that are incredibly obnoxious).
There's no reason for blue to have Hexproof. You can give me all of the "flavor" reasons why it makes sense, but from a game balance perspective it shouldn't work that way.
Yeah, I guess it does work with large green creatures, if only because it mitigates most cases of aura abuse. Thrun, however, was a card that was totally miserable to play against, because not only did he dodge all targeted removal, but global ones as well, and was a farily large creature on top of that. Killing Thrun for two mana is part of what made Phantasmal Image so good back when both were in Standard (the other, more juicy incentive was the absurd combo with Sun Titan, I think), and now they're even immune to clone effects!
I think a creature can have hexproof, regeneration and/or a high power and toughness, but not all at once. I wonder how Troll Ascetic would do nowadays, given that standard no longer has any spells that prevent regeneration other than Putrefy.
nightwing59
Neo Member
How can they print powerfull Hexproof Creatures and not just print Diabolic Edict why do they go with expensive or worse versions of it
Because Diabolic Edict is too good. No, don't ask any questions.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Standard has some really good edicts right now. Far // Away is great, as is Devour Flesh.
Devour Flesh is very, very close.
Sounding like some people have ruled out Thoughtseize and Noble Hierarch via number crunching. Mutavault was apparently ruled out a few days ago. Bummer unless they're in an upcoming coreset.
Because WOTC wants this to be a turn-sideways game. It's why non-creatures have been getting worse over the years while creatures now are ridiculous.
Because WOTC wants this to be a turn-sideways game. It's why non-creatures have been getting worse over the years while creatures now are ridiculous.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Not reprinting Thoughtseize in Modern Masters would almost certainly point to a reprint in an upcoming Standard set.
But Noble Hierarch can't easily be reprinted in an expansion set unless the Exalted mechanic came back, and that ship already sailed in M13.
So...either the leaks from the guy on Salvation are wrong, or those cards were just left off - which doesn't make any sense.
FTV: 20. It's also a judge foil, I believe, and they're reluctant to reprint those so soon.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
I respect MaRo a bunch, but I think he honestly needs to step away from the game for a while. I listen to a lot of MtG podcasts, and his is increasingly more and more about how little he thinks of the fans at large. He's benevolent about it, not mean or bitter or anything, but he sincerely believes that MtG fans are really, really stupid. And when evidence comes up (like the results of his Rosewater rumble) he just sort of hand waves them away as aberrations and the work of a vocal, passionate minority.
The thing with vocal minorities is that they're trying to tell you something. I think the pendulum has clearly swung too far back toward creatures and fans are definitely vocalizing that. I would really like somebody in the MtG R&D to say that they're listening, rather than saying "But what that minority doesn't understand is that spells used to be much, much better!" That might be true, but it doesn't preclude the possibility that stapling 3-4 different spells on every creature might be just as boring as 2 CMC edicts, or whatever they're afraid of in R&D.
Well to be fair, the results of a poll contest based entirely on the Twitter followers of the Magic Head Designer is absolutely reflective of a vocal, passionate, minority and shouldn't be taken as the wants of everyone who buys their product. They know why what they are doing is successful.
Magic is more popular now than its ever been by a redicculus degree. Considering how putrid a limited format AVR was, casual players bought it up in droves- which is the reason singles are expensive from the set (people buying packs weren't trading or selling their cards). they don't need to listen to their vocal MINORITY.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Holy crap they're gouging the hell out of players for Modern Masters drafts on MTGO. It costs 9 tickets over the product price to draft the set? What the actual fuck?
Wow. That's fucked up.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Well, to be fair - I just read the prizes. They pay out in Modern Masters packs, and for some reason I thought they were paying out in something else. So it's a little unreasonable, not a lot unreasonable.
EDIT: The link is below. A draft will cost 30 tickets, or 3 packs plus 9 tickets.
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/other/05282013d
Also, packs can only be purchased in the store for two weeks. You can get packs from drafts through July 10th.
I was expecting to pay 24 tickets, not 30 tickets for draft. That's a pretty significant difference.
EDIT: The link is below. A draft will cost 30 tickets, or 3 packs plus 9 tickets.
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/other/05282013d
Also, packs can only be purchased in the store for two weeks. You can get packs from drafts through July 10th.
I was expecting to pay 24 tickets, not 30 tickets for draft. That's a pretty significant difference.
What in the flying fuck.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
There is literally zero way to know who is voicing concerns. Calling a segment of a base a vocal minority is saying "you're not important to us and stop whining." Except, players of all segments are purchasing product. Obviously, because as you've said, the game is more popular than ever. That's not based on casual fans who maybe buy a pack at Walmart while picking up laundry soap. Don't forget that prereleases and drafts are more popular than ever too.
So, while they worry about the casual fan with EDH, core sets, DotP, what is the product for the core gamer? Super limited runs with extreme markups like FtV and MM. Which I'm happy for, but it's absolutely meager offerings for those who actually spend money on the game.
Again, my perspective on this stuff is business related. For all their successes on that front, they've had a ton of failures, some of which have almost ended the line. They're also comfortable with the game being cyclical in popularity, which is frustrating, because it lends to things like dismissing legitimate concerns from dedicated (re: spending) customers. After all, if they're going to come back, why worry about them anyway?
inanutshell
Member
Yeah I don't think I'll do any Modern Masters drafts. The boosters will probably hold their value in the long run but that 9 ticket entry fee is ridiculous and there are too many crap rares/mythics in the set.
LOL dat hyperbole. Hexproof can be annoying but it never broke a format. Also, hexproof creatures are harder to deal with but not impossible unlike Storm unless you're playing counters, discard or a hate card. The only "mistake" was Invisible Stalker because your opponent never had to enter combat with your creatures if they never wanted to.
The issue is that with creatures pushed to the forefront, Shroud creatures that aren't HUGE (5/5 or bigger) and are expected to enter combat are actively bad. When you have 2/2s for one, 3/3s for two and 4/4s for three running around, you often need to enhance you own dudes (or run tuns of removal) to have favorable combat.
If their goal is to get enough of any card out there to not crash prices but still noticeably increase supply for those who want to jump into Modern, a FTV release seems like a horrible way to do that.
My friend and I are pitching the money together to buy a box of MM and we'll just draft it out once (5 people - 15 packs) and we'll just split up those opened cards after the draft is over between the two of us. the other 9 will just be saved for a chaos draft.
Speaking of which, which old (old) sets do y'all suggest to use in a chaos draft? The first one we did a few weeks ago turned out okay but there were definitely a few sets that just were not very good. Darksteel, Ravnica, Betrayers of Kamigawa, Worldwake, Judgment, Fifth Dawn and a few others I can't remember off the top of my head ended up being very "blegh" and hard to work with. Right now we are either thinking on or have Unglued, Shards of Alara, Apocalypse, Scars (either Scars or Beseiged), Innistrad, Ice Age, and Shadowmoor. We're also thinking of throwing in a modern masters pack in for this chaos draft. So yah, any suggestions folks?
On a side note I really like the new Arcbound Ravager art.
Speaking of which, which old (old) sets do y'all suggest to use in a chaos draft? The first one we did a few weeks ago turned out okay but there were definitely a few sets that just were not very good. Darksteel, Ravnica, Betrayers of Kamigawa, Worldwake, Judgment, Fifth Dawn and a few others I can't remember off the top of my head ended up being very "blegh" and hard to work with. Right now we are either thinking on or have Unglued, Shards of Alara, Apocalypse, Scars (either Scars or Beseiged), Innistrad, Ice Age, and Shadowmoor. We're also thinking of throwing in a modern masters pack in for this chaos draft. So yah, any suggestions folks?
On a side note I really like the new Arcbound Ravager art.
acheron_xl
Member
I'd suggest Fallen Empires, Visions, Urza's Saga, Time Spiral. Lots of high quality commons.
Yeah... I don't really like swiss I think. The draft itself made no sense at all and it was reflected in the draft. A few bomby rares I passed in pack 2 were in someones deck as splashes that made no sense, he had just seen the bomb and thought that it must be played even though his deck was way worse with the card and fixing.
I don't know if you can further learn anything about drafting in swiss if you already know the basics.
I hear so much complaint about hexproof but what broken hexproof cards are there besides GosT? I don't even think that card is any more broke than Thragtusk, RestoAngel, or whatever other top tier cards there are. GosT will get slightly harder to deal with when the M14 legends ruling hits, but there are answers for it.
As far as drafting cards, is drafting swiss any different from drafting 8-4 or the other payout? I thought it was the same.
Just like to add I'm a terrible rare drafter. XD
As far as drafting cards, is drafting swiss any different from drafting 8-4 or the other payout? I thought it was the same.
Just like to add I'm a terrible rare drafter. XD
Same draft, different payouts. Because the payouts are lower you won't run into as many high level players as often.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Love that Ooze so much. I will get a playset just to fuck around with.
Woah, this makes me want one even more than before! Any news on DotP2014's release date? I know it will happen before M14's launch in July, but that's nearly a month away and, as far as I know, there hasn't been a release date announcement, Steam preorders or anything yet.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Speaking of hexproof, when I'm finally done tweaking my exalted deck I think I'll start working on my dream Kor Spiritdancer deck ^_^
Keru_Shiri
Member
Has the number crunch definitely ruled fetches out of M14?
Fetchlands and Shocklands in a world without the M10 helper lands, Farseek or Arbor Elf probably will not be too broken. Standard right now is kinda absurd with plenty of decks not running a single basic land.
Unless they are dropping to 3 arts per basic land instead of 4, there are only 3 slots for non-basic lands.
Yup. Only 3 nonbasics in m14.
Is that the DOTP promo art or the actual M14 card?
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