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Magic: the GAFering |OT2|
- Thread starter The Technomancer
- Start date
You don't want what you think you want.
divisionbyzorro
Member
I'm still looking to find a reason to play Progenitus in Modern.
Play Mythic with Garruk instead of Sovereigns.
Played kitchen table Magic all Saturday night. Boros deck went 6-2 and both losses were against a green/red/white legacy deck that ran Aurelia, the Warleader. The Boros deck is highly susceptible to removal since most everything is 1-3 toughness, and I really, really need more guild gates and shock lands.
The last four games I played were group games so I brought out a Dimir deck I was playing around with. For the first two games there were eight of us and five for the last two. I was largely ignored until I got three copies of Wight of Precinct Six and a Consuming Aberration card on board. People didn't realize I had three 21/21 and one 48/48 creatures on board until I attacked another player for the first time in the game and asked everyone for their graveyard numbers. Wiped a guy out in one turn and painted a bullseye on myself. I managed to survive one more turn to get another Consuming Aberration into play and knock another player out, but by then I had played a couple Spell Ruptures on other people's turn, the whole table was getting milled, and my friends were more than happy to knock me out of the game. That deck will only work once in that group, and I never got those cards nearly as strong for the rest of the night. The deck has a lot of holes (too little mana, no fliers, pretty much just slapped together) but it was a lot of fun to play with even as is.
For my second night of extended play, it was a lot of fun.
The last four games I played were group games so I brought out a Dimir deck I was playing around with. For the first two games there were eight of us and five for the last two. I was largely ignored until I got three copies of Wight of Precinct Six and a Consuming Aberration card on board. People didn't realize I had three 21/21 and one 48/48 creatures on board until I attacked another player for the first time in the game and asked everyone for their graveyard numbers. Wiped a guy out in one turn and painted a bullseye on myself. I managed to survive one more turn to get another Consuming Aberration into play and knock another player out, but by then I had played a couple Spell Ruptures on other people's turn, the whole table was getting milled, and my friends were more than happy to knock me out of the game. That deck will only work once in that group, and I never got those cards nearly as strong for the rest of the night. The deck has a lot of holes (too little mana, no fliers, pretty much just slapped together) but it was a lot of fun to play with even as is.
For my second night of extended play, it was a lot of fun.
CorruptShadow
Member
Shocks definitely. If your budget permits it, run Clifftop Retreat instead of gates.
I'll be drafting for the first time in almost a year this friday. It's a RTR block draft, any cards I should be looking out for in commons and uncommons as far as high picks go? Sucks, when I used to play almost every week I knew which cards to immediately grab but I'm so unfamiliar with these new cards I'm worried about drafting like an idiot.
Here is the stuff I'd say for Dragon's Maze, which is the first pack you'll open. In the later packs your choice is much more guided by what guilds you've picked up. I'm probably forgetting some stuff. Obviously any crazy bombs should be taken over this stuff.
Obvious good removal: Turn//Burn, Far//Away, Putrefy, Warleader's Helix
Not immediately obvious good removal: Krasis Incubation
Creatures: Tithe Drinker, Zhur Taa Druid, Viashino Firstblade, Beetleform Mage
Other: Unflinching Courage
Other tip: If you see a Pack Rat in the Return to Ravnica pack take it.
Thank ya kindly. I'm a creature dude, I always draft 95% creatures and just overwhelm opponents. It's worked well for me all these years as long as I draft smart and pick the right creatures. So I'll keep those four creatures in mind when I crack my first pack.
EsotericManiac
Banned
did they steal your man land?
if not, then you have yet to meet that misery. it's like a whole new level of misery and that card (shackles untaps, they keep your land)
learned that one the hard way
I would also add Fatal Fumes to the list of Not Obvious good removal. A lot of players draft agro it seems (at least where I play) and Fatal Fumes has more than once been really useful to me since 2 toughness is pretty common. Might also look at Mugging, it can be used as removal or to get though a fatty for the win.
Neither of those I would take first or second pick, but when I see them third or later I never feel bad drafting them.
So you know, I consider myself horrible at drafting, so take this with a grain of salt.
Neither of those I would take first or second pick, but when I see them third or later I never feel bad drafting them.
So you know, I consider myself horrible at drafting, so take this with a grain of salt.
Tarmogoyf/Bob didn't deserve to be Mythic.
Shackles certainly did, simply for limited balance reasons.
Yeah, that's wrong, actually. You have to give it back, even if its not a creature anymore. It only checks for "creature" on initial resolution.
Thanks for the advice!
I'm looking forward to it. I used to consider myself a above average drafter and a very good sealed player. But after a year without mtg, I hope I don't completely embarrass myself.
No offense to your purchase, but I'm really pissed about this price jump. It was already high enough. I hope Scavenging Ooze destroys them in Modern. I really do.
Blame Wizards here. I was really upset when they announced it as Mythic, but was willing to wait to see what the print run looked like. Putting it and Bob at Mythic was absolutely insane. There's a reason they don't intentionally put 4x format-defining utility staples at Mythic in normal sets.
It's even worse when it's a Constructed deck designed with it in mind. Having a Shackes drop on the other side when playing against a Nassif-style countertop deck a few years back was fucking brutal.
Didn't do it in Legacy, not doing it in Modern. The only green decks that would want Ooze are like Hatebears and maybe Jund/Junk.
I'm going to have to disagree with noquarter, Fatal Fumes is trash and I will regularly take mediocre creatures over it. 4 mana is WAY to much to just give something -X/-2. It's more like a combat trick than a kill spell.
@siddx: If you can stick to two colors, it will be in your best interests to do so. I feel most non-trainwreck decks in this format are two colors with a LIGHT splash though.
Commons that are stronger than they may seem: Hazada Snare Squad, Blue & Black "Maze" creatures, Rubblebelt Maaka, Thrashing Mossdog, Kraul Warrior
Uncommons that are stronger than they seem: ALL the split cards with Armed//Dangerous, Profit//Loss and Alive//Well being blowouts waiting to happen (Far//Away and Turn//Burn have already been mention and are super strong).
Trostani's Summoner is a full-fledged BOMB and better than many rares.
Regarding the rares, I feel like you've been playing Magic long enough to recognize a bomb when you see one. I will say that Varolz and Boros Battleshaper are both stronger than one might expect. They can do nutty shit.
So, about that Voice of Resurgence..........
Regarding Goyf, I saw one at my local store for $110 and jumped on it. I really don't like paying that much but observing recent trends (and that's it's the first available physical Goyf I've actually seen in years and I like my LGS) I felt I had no choice)
@siddx: If you can stick to two colors, it will be in your best interests to do so. I feel most non-trainwreck decks in this format are two colors with a LIGHT splash though.
Commons that are stronger than they may seem: Hazada Snare Squad, Blue & Black "Maze" creatures, Rubblebelt Maaka, Thrashing Mossdog, Kraul Warrior
Uncommons that are stronger than they seem: ALL the split cards with Armed//Dangerous, Profit//Loss and Alive//Well being blowouts waiting to happen (Far//Away and Turn//Burn have already been mention and are super strong).
Trostani's Summoner is a full-fledged BOMB and better than many rares.
Regarding the rares, I feel like you've been playing Magic long enough to recognize a bomb when you see one. I will say that Varolz and Boros Battleshaper are both stronger than one might expect. They can do nutty shit.
So, about that Voice of Resurgence..........
Regarding Goyf, I saw one at my local store for $110 and jumped on it. I really don't like paying that much but observing recent trends (and that's it's the first available physical Goyf I've actually seen in years and I like my LGS) I felt I had no choice)
You also want to be drafting a Gatecrash guild rather than a Ravnica one. In case something wrong happens in the second pack, you can fix it heading into pack 3. Most of the good RtR cards fit into other decks, ie Centaur's Herald is great in Simic, Frostburn Weird is good in any blue or red deck. So if you're committed to Selesnya or Izzet and you don't see those cards...
CorruptShadow
Member
DotP 2014 is up on the PSN store, (you have to search for it, the store hasn't fully updated)
divisionbyzorro
Member
Honestly, I firmly believe that the right strategy in DGR is to be drafting three colors. If you're drafting 2 colors, you get access to only one set of gold cards in a single pack. If you're drafting 3 colors, you get access to three sets of gold cards in two packs. Your mana may be slightly shakier, but your power level will be so much higher.
If I'm drafting Boros or Gruul, I don't need a single gold or offcolor card (Barring Pack Rat, Vitu-Ghazi Guildmage, and rare/mythic bombs) in RtR. I want my deck to be consistent and I will gladly pass on cards like Selesnya Charm, Call of the Conclave, or Skymark Roc if it means I can pick up on-color quality aggressive cards to make my deck consistent such as Splatter Thug, Gore-House Chainwalker, Rakdos Cackler, Sunspire Griffin, Dryad Militant, or Knightly Valor. These decks just punish the 3-4 colored decks with 2-7 gates for stumbling on their mana.
Two colors and a small splash for 1 or 2 cards in a third color is fine too.
I'm not sure I agree with the manta of "try to force the Gatecrash guilds". I'm more interested in just responding to what's open rather than trying to force and cut. Take the draft I did last Saturday. I opened a Varolz as my P1P1 over a Warleader's Helix. I felt the upside was worth it over premium removal. I audible between Green and Red cards in the first pack till I got two late Korozda Gorgons. This told me Golgari was very open from my right. So in my Gatecrash pack I just took mono-Green and mono-Black cards. Got rewarded, as expected, in the last pack with a Corpsejack Menace, Korozada Guildmage and Wild Beastmaster amongst other goodies. Frankly, this isn't uncommon. In drafts I've seen and participated in, one of the RTR guilds is always CRAZY open. If you can recognize it early, you can reap the benefits and get a strong two color deck.
I disagree. Going full on three color (unless you get like ALL the gates and such) is a recipe for disaster. You'll be fumbling and bumbling on your mana way too often for my comfort. To be honest, the fixing in this block kind of sucks. Fixing in Shards block and original Ravnica block was much better and more conducive to straight 3+ color decks. Two colors with maybe a LIGHT splash is the most consistent winning strategy I feel.
divisionbyzorro
Member
When you leave the Dragon's Maze pack dedicated to a two-color strategy, you're betting that the cards opened in the packs around you will support that strategy. Sometimes you get richly rewarded. More often than not, the packs that are opened don't have the high-impact spells that you need in your colors. Sure, if you leave DGM reading a strong Golgari signal and the table opens great Golgari cards, you win. But what if they don't?
I've had consistent success in Dragon's Maze by drafting high-impact spells and color fixing in the DGM pack, listening to signals from my right to predict the contents of the RTR pact, taking what comes to me in the Gatecrash pack, and falling into a three-color deck from there. I strongly believe that a 3 color deck that's split 40/40/20 between its colors and has high-impact spells in those colors is the best strategy.
You're really just trading off variance. By setting yourself up in Dragon's Maze to be three colors, you're reducing the variance introduced by opening up the packs, even if you're exposing yourself to greater degrees of variance in terms of your mana during the games themselves. But if you try to force a two-color combination, you may have more consistent mana, but you're exposed to fewer cards in your colors during the draft and thus exposed to greater variance during the draft itself.
Sure, sometimes it just happens that way. But I think it's suboptimal to walk into a full-block DGM draft and say "I'm only willing to draft two colors, with maybe a splash." I don't believe the draft environment was designed for that. Sometimes that is the best deck for your seat, but I believe that carrying that preconception into the draft is going to hurt you more than it helps you. Ultimately, your job during a draft is to find the best deck for your seat, and I believe that setting yourself up to be able to support three colors during the DGM pack puts you in the best position to find that deck.
Also, the "Cut a Gatecrash guild" strategy is the worst piece of advice to ever be adopted by pros. I mean, seriously? So I cut Boros to my left. What does that do? It tells the people to my left to not be Boros...except the guy to my left opened a Boros Battleshaper and he's going to be playing that card because it wins games on its own. You did the hard work of cutting Boros, but he's going to reap all the benefit. Again, you're exposing yourself to great variance during the draft itself.
I've had consistent success in Dragon's Maze by drafting high-impact spells and color fixing in the DGM pack, listening to signals from my right to predict the contents of the RTR pact, taking what comes to me in the Gatecrash pack, and falling into a three-color deck from there. I strongly believe that a 3 color deck that's split 40/40/20 between its colors and has high-impact spells in those colors is the best strategy.
You're really just trading off variance. By setting yourself up in Dragon's Maze to be three colors, you're reducing the variance introduced by opening up the packs, even if you're exposing yourself to greater degrees of variance in terms of your mana during the games themselves. But if you try to force a two-color combination, you may have more consistent mana, but you're exposed to fewer cards in your colors during the draft and thus exposed to greater variance during the draft itself.
Sure, sometimes it just happens that way. But I think it's suboptimal to walk into a full-block DGM draft and say "I'm only willing to draft two colors, with maybe a splash." I don't believe the draft environment was designed for that. Sometimes that is the best deck for your seat, but I believe that carrying that preconception into the draft is going to hurt you more than it helps you. Ultimately, your job during a draft is to find the best deck for your seat, and I believe that setting yourself up to be able to support three colors during the DGM pack puts you in the best position to find that deck.
Also, the "Cut a Gatecrash guild" strategy is the worst piece of advice to ever be adopted by pros. I mean, seriously? So I cut Boros to my left. What does that do? It tells the people to my left to not be Boros...except the guy to my left opened a Boros Battleshaper and he's going to be playing that card because it wins games on its own. You did the hard work of cutting Boros, but he's going to reap all the benefit. Again, you're exposing yourself to great variance during the draft itself.
By two color I don't necessarily mean leaving DGM with Guild X and never deviating but rather over the course of a draft stick to as few colors as possible for it. I've happily switched color combinations half way through a draft but that usually because I pivot along the axis of a particular color. What those colors are and/or should be is based on what you perceive to be open. The fixing and card draw isn't strong enough in this format to make me want to play durdle decks. As such, I'm more than willing to sacrifice power for consistency and speed. All the spells in the world don't mean much if you can't cast them or cast them in a timely manner.
As for your other point, I definitely agree: going with the "cut the Gatecrash guilds" is that sometimes you end up helping the person to your left by cutting them well and letting them get first dibs on all the good stuff in GTC. In a normal format, you'd get rewarded in both packs 2 & 3 for cutting well. In DGR you either get reward in one or ZERO packs.
Overall, I think the format is pretty high variance due to its structure for different reasons. You really can't avoid it.
As for your other point, I definitely agree: going with the "cut the Gatecrash guilds" is that sometimes you end up helping the person to your left by cutting them well and letting them get first dibs on all the good stuff in GTC. In a normal format, you'd get rewarded in both packs 2 & 3 for cutting well. In DGR you either get reward in one or ZERO packs.
Overall, I think the format is pretty high variance due to its structure for different reasons. You really can't avoid it.
I know that Fatal Fumes isn't that good, but like I've said, the times that I've drafted a B guild and had that card I've been happy with it. The only time it really got me is when I was playing a deck that got the Boros enchantment that generates soldiers (can't remember the name) and against a deck that got Deadbridge Chant off and played a lot of the bigger creatures. There it did suck, but other than that it has played better than it looks like it should.
Also I'm not the best at drafting, so I tend to stick to BREAD pretty close and look at any removal in a color in playing or might play higher than evasion on a creature in a color I'm not in.
Trostanis Summoner is a good bomb though, if you get to play it, it can turns the game itself.
Random question.
Currently playing DotP 2014 and I like the white deck and the art on the angels. How much would it cost to make a deck like Avacyn's Glory for casual play? There's a card store around here so I could go take a peek with a checklist or somehting.
Besides a few hours in DotP 2013 and 2014 I'm pretty much new to Magic and don't own any cards.
Currently playing DotP 2014 and I like the white deck and the art on the angels. How much would it cost to make a deck like Avacyn's Glory for casual play? There's a card store around here so I could go take a peek with a checklist or somehting.
Besides a few hours in DotP 2013 and 2014 I'm pretty much new to Magic and don't own any cards.
My general drafting strategy:
-Good creatures > Good removals. Consistent presence over one time use. Of course, grab some removals in the later picks if possible.
-Try sticking with 2 colors if possible. I will always only try to splash a third color and not fully go 3-colors, unless my mana fixing is that good and the cards I have are that good. Can't tell you how often my opponent or I lost because of mana issues.
-Hate draft only when no cards outta the pick benefits you. I think players will hate draft instead of getting a card that helps there deck sometimes and I think that's a no-no.
-Drakes are good. Always grab some flyers.
Other than that, I think the format is too diverse to say lock onto one strategy.
-Good creatures > Good removals. Consistent presence over one time use. Of course, grab some removals in the later picks if possible.
-Try sticking with 2 colors if possible. I will always only try to splash a third color and not fully go 3-colors, unless my mana fixing is that good and the cards I have are that good. Can't tell you how often my opponent or I lost because of mana issues.
-Hate draft only when no cards outta the pick benefits you. I think players will hate draft instead of getting a card that helps there deck sometimes and I think that's a no-no.
-Drakes are good. Always grab some flyers.
Other than that, I think the format is too diverse to say lock onto one strategy.
Pack Rat is always worth hate drafting.
Well that isn't so much a hate draft than a "win the draft" draft.
Oh that's not that bad. I've bought more expensive singles from other card games. I guess I should look for decent angel decks that use more cards than what DOTP lets me use.
Of course SCG restocks on cheaper Goyfs the day after I already bought a playset from them.
Could've not had to add in money with the store credit.
On the brightside of ordering the Goyfs earlier, it'll be here in time for modern FNM at least -_-
Is it worth just picking up Goyfs at $100/ea at this point? It feels better to that than let a bunch of fools play with the "card economy" at this point. I mean I really hate to bite down $400 like that but the odds of me even getting a single goyf from MMA packs is slim. I cracked a couple packs today and get a Sword of Light and Shadow for my troubles. Too bad that's the second one of I've opened (plus a Vendilion Clique). Oh well.
He's in the 115-120 bottom end now, unfortunately. I bit the bullet about a week ago immediately after the SCG jump.
Ugh.
I know you keep mentioning how it was a horrendously stupid idea for WOTC to put him at Mythic Rare and now I see the repercussions. I mean I get *why* it's at that rarity, it's just that this was never going to reduce its price because it was a mythic rare in a large set, right? Or I guess a mythic rare period. Blegh. This is frustrating.
I really want a set but I really really should just ditch the dream and play robots in my sad little corner.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Lose game one. Side into Pack Rat and 39 Swamps. Win easily.
One of the great things about the full block Team Sealed format seemed to be that Pack Rat got way worse, since the synergy of opposing decks was so much better.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
DotP needs some patching. The draws are ridiculously slanted toward land draws. The sealed campaign is neat but underwhelming. For that, at least, they should have included at the very least the guildgates.
Keru_Shiri
Member
Is anyone having issues with DotP 2014? Specifically, when I click on the "Don't show me again" button on the tutorial pop-ups, the pop-ups still occur.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Yeah, same here. Ads too
Just played DotP on my friend's iPad. It still has almost all the problems with it I had last time. And the time before. The computer opponent always has the right answers, and you always get flooded with land when the going gets tough. I literally have no fun playing that game.
So passing on DOTP then.
The games are always a buggy mess. The DOTP bug thread is literally the biggest thread on the entire WOTC forums, forums that have been open for bloody ever.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
The land thing is obnoxious. Twice I drew into all land hands. For fun and excitement, adjust the lands down to like 15 and watch as you draw 12 of them.
It's certainly not random card distribution on the part of the computer opponents, that's for goddamn sure.
Plus, the encounters with illegal decks full of bullshit like 10 of each card are now the bulk of the single player game. So, how does this game now help get new players into the game of Magic? It's also very slow and every stupid trigger has a animation to go with it that bogs down the flow way too much
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