Keru_Shiri
Member
I kind of want to slog through the campaign mode just to see what other tidbits of Chandra story I can get. The challenge puzzles are still fun, at the very least, but yeah, a lot of the same problems as previous versions.
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Magic: the GAFering |OT2|
- Thread starter The Technomancer
- Start date
narcosis219
Member
Whatevs I got a scavenging ooze yey
I was gonna bring up the flow and animations. Man, is it ever a chore to play
I only played the tutorial campaign to get a hand of how DotP handles things, and when I first faced Chandra she appeared to have the right answers every time. Play a T2 3/2? It gets a Pillar of Flame aimed at it. Cast the fight card on my Sentinel Spider to clear the way? It gets Chandra's Outrage-d for a crazy 3-for-1. Finally play my Cudgel Troll with open mana for regeneration, trying to find a way to stabilize while at <10 life? It gets Disintegrated as I watch in amazement.
I did beat her in game 2, where it seemed like she didn't draw any damage-dealing spells at all.
I also finished all ten challenges, and none of them seemed particularily hard. I did restart the final challenge a few times while I experimented until I realized what I had to do:
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Play Brainstorm, shipping the 2R sliver and Blightsteel Colossus
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Cast both Virulent Slivers
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Put Protean Hulk onto the battlefield by using Quicksilver Amulet's ability
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Sacrifice the Hulk to the other artifact (Culling Dais?)
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Search for the devour 2 dragon with the Hulk's ability, devouring both Virulent Slivers
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Play Crib Swap on the opponent's Darksteel Gargoyle (its only flier)
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Attack with the 8/8 dragon and 6/6 unblockable guy for exactly 14 damage
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I seriously doubt any DotP deck is going to make me go "what the fuck" quite like the first time I fought Karn in 2012 though and his move was "Island - > Mox Sapphire - > Mox Sapphire - > Tinker - Darksteel Colossus - > Go"
I restarted that game
I restarted that game
But Fat Garruk costs the same as RT...
They never had any intent to lower the prices of big chase cards. They made this point very clear way before MMA came out but people have selective reading.
Are people really complaining that DOTP is bugged because sometimes your opponent nut draws or sometimes you flood? This is like complaining about the shuffler in MODO. Being random means sometimes you get fucked over in terms in draws. Sometimes you even get fucked over MULTIPLE TIMES IN A ROW. Salty people are salty 
I will agree though that when I played DOTP 2013, it became a chore to play because it was kind of slow.
LOL. Seems like it would be a great experience for players new to Magic #Kappa
I will agree though that when I played DOTP 2013, it became a chore to play because it was kind of slow.
LOL. Seems like it would be a great experience for players new to Magic #Kappa
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Are people really complaining that DOTP is bugged because sometimes your opponent nut draws or sometimes you flood? This is like complaining about the shuffler in MODO. Being random means sometimes you get fucked over in terms in draws. Sometimes you even get fucked over MULTIPLE TIMES IN A ROW. Salty people are salty
I will agree though that when I played DOTP 2013, it became a chore to play because it was kind of slow.
LOL. Seems like it would be a great experience for players new to Magic #Kappa
People are complaining because it's very much not random. That's like, the opposite of what you're lol'ing about.
Random doesn't mean you and your opponent get even distributions of lands and spells and that all games are close. Random means sometimes you have shit draws and sometimes your opponent nut draws you. Nothing you've said suggests that the shuffler in DOTP isn't sufficiently random. I'm going to need a bit more than "people whining on the internet" to be convinced otherwise. Human beings in general are terrible about discerning true randomness and the sample size from each individual complainer is going to be too small to really mean anything. Has there been evidence (looking at the code) or statements (from WOTC) to the effect that the deck algorithms somehow differ between you and the computer?
Go play the game and see for yourself. The computer almost always has the proper answer for whatever you're doing.
Have you been playing it?
I only ask because I've played about 30-40 games over the last few days and it's quite obvious that things are a bit borked. You can definitely tell when the AI is not sufficient enough for the difficulty level of the match and it has been "replaced" by a lucky computer opponent
Beyond that, lifelink is broken again too. You don't get anything if your creature dies during combat, and I LOL'd when my AI opponent burned himself for 3 randomly to give me the win in a match.The game is alright fun, and I'm happy with my 7 pound ooze, but it's needing a day 2 patch.
narcosis219
Member
The turn 2 tinker into Darksteel Colossus is programmed into the game. So are a lot of the campaign fights.
This isn't like the MODO shuffler myth; this is actually pre programmed Ai starting hands. Legit. I just played 3 games in a row against one of the zendikar opponents. T1 kitesail T2 adventuring gear T3 duelist every time.
This isn't like the MODO shuffler myth; this is actually pre programmed Ai starting hands. Legit. I just played 3 games in a row against one of the zendikar opponents. T1 kitesail T2 adventuring gear T3 duelist every time.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Why don't you research it yourself and stop assuming that people offering up their experiences about a game are some sort of trial in which you're a judge that needs convincing? I just talked about my time with the game so far. Why on earth do you think it's my responsibility to convince you of shit? Fuck off with the "whining and complaining" bullshit.
Well that is one of the encounters where it isn't even an actual deck. That one is the same thing every time. When you play against the other actual decks (ie the ones you unlock) they aren't the same thing over and over.
It seems to be working for me.
I conveniently also know Cincinnati game stores. I go to Yottaquest in Mt Healthy and Arcadian Comics in Newport. I've also heard decent stuff about the various Illuminaudi stores around town but haven't actually been to one. And there are definitely other places around.
Pollux
Member
My man. Thanks, bud. I didn't know about either of those, and I was thinking of Boardwalk Hobby Shop in Mt. Lookout. So good to know about those.
What's a good place to play? Or is there anyplace that does organized MTG games?
I played the 2013 version and not enough has changed in 2014 to make me want to jump back in (plus the Ogre Battledriver promo isn't really thrilling)
Have you been playing it?
I only ask because I've played about 30-40 games over the last few days and it's quite obvious that things are a bit borked. You can definitely tell when the AI is not sufficient enough for the difficulty level of the match and it has been "replaced" by a lucky computer opponent
The game is alright fun, and I'm happy with my 7 pound ooze, but it's needing a day 2 patch.
I'm only talking about complaints regarding "the shuffler". If the game is borked in some other way I'm not commenting on that.
Some of the campaign fights/encounters are set up to promote certain circumstances but people are accusing the program of being biased both ways (i.e. it mana floods/screws you on purpose). I'm finding the latter to be especially hard to believe. Furthermore, having particular starting sequences is also different than "always having the answer". I'm not saying the later is impossible but its "easy" to remember those times when they "had it" as opposed to those times they have nothing. For example you remember all the times the mana system fucks you over but can barely remember then times it fucks your opponents over when statistically, its exactly the same in the long run.
YOU made the claim that the programming is borked. As such, the onus is on YOU to prove that it actually is borked, across the board, however hard that may be. I'm not saying your feelings aren't genuine but rather that your words are indistinguishable from those who complain about the MODO "shuffler". All you've said is that you've gotten unlucky. But is that "unluckiness" due to randomness or cheating AI? You could definitely be right but you've done nothing to prove that later. When I hear "the computer is forcibly making me draw shit", I get REAL skeptical.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
I played the 2013 version and not enough has changed in 2014 to make me want to jump back in (plus the Ogre Battledriver promo isn't really thrilling)
I'm only talking about complaints regarding "the shuffler". If the game is borked in some other way I'm not commenting on that.
Some of the campaign fights/encounters are set up to promote certain circumstances but people are accusing the program of being biased both ways (i.e. it mana floods/screws you on purpose). I'm finding the latter to be especially hard to believe. Furthermore, having particular starting sequences is also different than "always having the answer". I'm not saying the later is impossible but its "easy" to remember those times when they "had it" as opposed to those times they have nothing. For example you remember all the times the mana system fucks you over but can barely remember then times it fucks your opponents over when statistically, its exactly the same in the long run.
YOU made the claim that the programming is borked. As such, the onus is on YOU to prove that it actually is borked, across the board, however hard that may be. I'm not saying your feelings aren't genuine but rather that your words are indistinguishable from those who complain about the MODO "shuffler". All you've said is that you've gotten unlucky. But is that "unluckiness" due to randomness or cheating AI? You could definitely be right but you've done nothing to prove that later. When I hear "the computer is forcibly making me draw shit", I get REAL skeptical.
How are you still lost? I do not owe you, Crocodile, shit. Nothing. I do not care to PROVE anything with any ONUS in any way that you find satisfactory. You are not important to me. I just said my piece on the game. Period.
I played for about 4 hours yesterday (mainly sealed) and didn't see any of these nut draws/flooding people are talking about. Being able to manually tweak your lands helps a bunch. Also, when you unlock new cards, the game will automatically add them to deck and adjust the land without taking any other cards out. It makes the decks far less efficient if you don't fix it.
@WanderingWind - You made a claim: The game cheats/is bugged and intentionally fucks with your draws. You are clearly trying to convince me and any others who are nearby that this is the truth. You failed to substantiate this claim (which admittedly for the claim you made is hard to do). As such, I became skeptical and called bullshit, especially on the later part of the claim. That's really all there is to it. I mean you personally no harm or disrespect but you can't go around saying things without any proof and not expect to be challenged on them.
Gatekeeper
Member
iOS Magic. Srs Debate.
Pollux
Member
He's not trying to convince you of anything, he's telling you of his experience with the game...
It's the 4th game in the series, the problems WW are referring to have been present since the first game. Take a few minutes on the web and you can find all the documentation of them that you need. Or you can keep being a ponce. Whatever floats your boat.
ChubbyHuggs
Member
Trying out this mill deck and under four five turns this guy gets out two Stromkirk Nobles and a Markov Blademaster... This sucks.
I need to cut this deck down.
Also, no one ever wants to talk.
Also, I think this guy I'm playing against only has rares and Mythics in his deck. Just made him mill 3 planeswalkers and a bunch of rare gates.
I need to cut this deck down.
Also, no one ever wants to talk.
Also, I think this guy I'm playing against only has rares and Mythics in his deck. Just made him mill 3 planeswalkers and a bunch of rare gates.
Discard as a strategy is unfortunately no longer really viable because of what they've done to critters.
ChubbyHuggs
Member
Someone told me that while trying out my first one, and he or she just told me that now. And no dice, killed me with a control deck. Well at least they were nice enough to tell what I should do to improve my deck. Even pointed me to some decks they thought I should try out: http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=11241
Or to get a Grixis Control deck... Which now that I am looking at it is the one they was running.
His experience is that either the AI has been drawing exceptionally well and/or he has been drawing exceptionally poorly over a relatively small sample size. I don't dispute that. He says its because the AI cheats and/or the game fucks with your draws. I dispute that; its a claim that requires proof. I'm essentially skeptical about the later part of the claim because it is both unnecessary and downright malicious. He has provided no proof (though I again admit its hard to do so for this kind of thing).
If this is some well established fact, then his first response should have been to link me to something of the sort that demonstrates this. For curiosity's sake I went to the DOTP portion of the WOTC forums and looked through the threads for the past week. I found a few, and I stress few, making similar claims but nothing to distinguish this from disappointment/frustration from the natural variance within Magic. The only official article I could find about the AI is here: http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/44. Again I don't dispute his experiences, I'm just skeptical of the causes. I'm not going to take the claim "The game fucks with your draws" at face value when Magic players in general have a habit of saying the same for a random program like MODO.
Give us your deck list and maybe we can help. Though yeah, the power level and CMC of creatures nowadays makes this harder than ever.
Question to Everybody: On a perhaps related note, if you've been following Maro's blog, he and R&D have come to the same conclusion that most Cube designers did a while back: Black (at a high, competitive level) is the worst color in Magic.
Agree or Disagree? Why does is blow? What can be done (within Modern design paradigms) to correct this?
ChubbyHuggs
Member
I warn you, it's kinda bad.
I had him down to 14 cards, before Master of Cruelties came out...
If black ever was the worst color in the past, it certainly isn't anymore. Deathrite Shaman, Dark Confidant, 3 drop Liliana, and Thoughtseize are 4 of the very best cards that aren't banned in the formats they're eligible for.
I think I remember seeing you saying something similar to Maro on his blog
. It would probably have to be something similar to Terminus or Merciless Eviction no? Between undying/persist-esque mechanics, death triggers, indestructibility, etc. Creatures have never been more resilient in the history of the game. I think that definitely has contributed to Blacks issues. It's the color of "removal" but creatures are super resilient nowadays and NWO has encouraged ETB and LTB effects to keep dudes powerful and relevant without bumping up complexity too high. Sorry to hear about the latter. Some people can be sore losers
I thought you had a discard deck? This is a mill deck. Four questions: A) Do you want to stick to standard or can I suggest older cards? B) Do you want the deck to be more creature based or spell based? C) What's you budget? D) Mono-Blue or can we add more colors?
Well Black being "bad" is how R&D feels RIGHT NOW per their own words. Their data must suggest it's not seeing appropriate proportional representation across constructed fromats. Those cards are super sweet though. I think Liliana of the Viel has definitely cemented herself as the third/four best Planeswalker ever. Then again she's the only good Mono-Black Planeswalker in existence
ChubbyHuggs
Member
Sorry, I meant mill deck. I always confuse the two. Mostly because the deck that I have in real life uses milling and discarding.
I'm game for older cards. I was just doing standard, because it seems to be what everyone in the lobby is playing, mostly.
I like a good mix, but if you have suggestions, I'm open to them.
My budget is... I'm not sure what I want to to be right now. Still trying to get use to online play and trading before I make any real investment here.
I have a black/blue mill deck in real life, so I could try out a different one.
FYI, the codes don' actually mean anything. The instructions from Wizard, for retailers, is to collect the print outs and destroy them. Nothing is ever recorded or saved. So, as long as the people at the store don't recognize you, you can probably visit the same place twice without any hassle.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Well Black being "bad" is how R&D feels RIGHT NOW per their own words. Their data must suggest it's not seeing appropriate proportional representation across constructed fromats. Those cards are super sweet though. I think Liliana of the Viel has definitely cemented herself as the third/four best Planeswalker ever. Then again she's the only good Mono-Black Planeswalker in existence
She's a build-around, but she's the second best behind big daddy Jace.
Promo code generators? Redeeming the same code twice? I know the latter can be done, but it comes off as extremely seedy. I mean, I love the ooze, but I'm still only going to be getting two copies (one from my DotP and another from my cousin's, who doesn't play paper Magic). It's not even like the card will ever go back to being as expensive as it was in the short to middle term, now that it's being printed in a standard-legal core set. I do like the promo art a lot more than the regular one, though, since it depicts the ooze while it's actually scavenging something.
As far as DotP goes, I've only beaten the Innistrad campaign and unlocked Jace's deck. I was amazed to realize it was an illusion deck rather than a typical control build, but I've always liked illusions and wanted to build a deck with them so I'm fine with it.
I also played a 4-player free-for-all match against my cousing and two AIs, and came out on top after I managed to stabilize. I did get screwed over more than once by the response timer, which prevented me from casting two counterspells I had in hand in some very important situations (one time I was in the middle of writing a chat message, and the other one I just didn't hit the spacebar fast enough).
The first one to go was the goblin, since he had quite a few dangerous dragons, but kept tapping out to attack others, which allowed my small illusion team to whittle him down to nothing quite fast. My cousin's eldrazi deck got all of its big dudes killed by Liliana and the Jund goblin and he ran out of gas (while at 50+ life), and I eventually drew my Phantasmal Image, copied Liliana's Grave Titan, and began attacking her while amassing a zombie army, since she kept tapping out to attack my cousin. Liliana lost shortly afterwards, and then my cousing played Ulamog's Crusher and It that Betrays, the latter of which I countered with a Draining Whelk, leaving a crazy 13/13 flier body behind.
If anyone wants to play some DotP games, feel free to add me at http://steamcommunity.com/id/ultimatekiwi
As far as DotP goes, I've only beaten the Innistrad campaign and unlocked Jace's deck. I was amazed to realize it was an illusion deck rather than a typical control build, but I've always liked illusions and wanted to build a deck with them so I'm fine with it.
I also played a 4-player free-for-all match against my cousing and two AIs, and came out on top after I managed to stabilize. I did get screwed over more than once by the response timer, which prevented me from casting two counterspells I had in hand in some very important situations (one time I was in the middle of writing a chat message, and the other one I just didn't hit the spacebar fast enough).
The first one to go was the goblin, since he had quite a few dangerous dragons, but kept tapping out to attack others, which allowed my small illusion team to whittle him down to nothing quite fast. My cousin's eldrazi deck got all of its big dudes killed by Liliana and the Jund goblin and he ran out of gas (while at 50+ life), and I eventually drew my Phantasmal Image, copied Liliana's Grave Titan, and began attacking her while amassing a zombie army, since she kept tapping out to attack my cousin. Liliana lost shortly afterwards, and then my cousing played Ulamog's Crusher and It that Betrays, the latter of which I countered with a Draining Whelk, leaving a crazy 13/13 flier body behind.
If anyone wants to play some DotP games, feel free to add me at http://steamcommunity.com/id/ultimatekiwi
Is there any way I can get my promo without actually playing the game? I'm at work right now, and I can purchase the game through Steam's site, but I'd rather not install the client on my machine.
I wish they offered this on the mobile Play store because then I'd just run the app and show the code.
I wish they offered this on the mobile Play store because then I'd just run the app and show the code.
Keru_Shiri
Member
Not that I'm aware of, I had to launch the game to get mine. (I got it on Steam, also)
Haven't had any problems with bugs with DOTP 2014. I have noticed that like prior editions, the computer also pulls the exact card they seem to need. And the land draw complaint seems valid for me as well. But I'm still enjoying it.
I plan on using the extra copies I get. With the price gouging, sharking, and market cornering that constantly goes on with this game, it's hard to believe me getting a couple extra cards is extremely seedy.
Then again, so would the players who actually bought the game and go to your LGS to get their copies, only to be told by the clerk that they're all gone. I've gotten ripped off in trades when I was starting out, but I don't think that gives me a reason to rip other people off.
I also am going to play the oozes, and I even collect them (luckily, none of them are particularily rare other than Youle Ooze, but I'd rather forget about it). However, I won't be getting greedy and hog other people's cards, even more so since I'm an established player and many people will get into paper MtG though DotP. To me, cutting potential new players off of their first paper cards doesn't feel right, and if you just wanted the card, it'd probably be cheaper to buy them as singles.
I don't even think the ooze will be that expensive, even. M14 will put lots of copies in circulation, so non-promo versions shouldn't be too hard to find.
Ugh. I don't like it at all. Why can't it just have Protection from Black and Red?
Oh joy. Cards like this are just miserable to play against.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Ugh. I don't like it at all. Why can't it just have Protection from Black and Red?
Sweet lightsaber though
Because those abilities are really good in a multicolor block.
Ugh. I don't like it at all. Why can't it just have Protection from Black and Red?
Can human knights deck be a thing?
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