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[Lucario]

I hope so, would feel pretty good casting it.
Sam Black has mentioned Dark Prophecy + Gray Merchant of Asphodel and then even Rescue from the Underworld. Some pretty cool value there if a little janky. Not sure if it will be supported properly but Dark Prophecy is probably the one card that can push devotion to black and the black god over the top compared to the other colours.

This is ridiculously silly. I like it.

I really hope there's more sac outlets in this format, too. The recursion we have in mono black (splash red for Cerberus) is obscene. The Johnny in me can't wait to play all of the following in the same deck at FNM, along with a glut of 2-drops:

Crypt Ghast, Dark Prophecy, Underworld Cerberus, Lifebane Zombie, Immortal Servitude

 

[y2dvd]

What are all these shitty situational cards you are playing that you keep putting to the bottom before drawing them? Omenspeaker isn't a nice substitute for Augur, for the same reason Index isn't a substitute for Ponder.

Think we are going to agree to disagree. The 1/3 body is relevant and Scry for 2 is a different advantage to drawing. Your comparison to Indexonder doesn't work because Index is simply rearranging w/o a draw. Scry at least gives you the option to weed out things you don't want.

 

[Lucario]

Think we are going to agree to disagree. The 1/3 body is relevant and Scry for 2 is a different advantage to drawing. Your comparison to Indexonder doesn't work because Index is simply rearranging w/o a draw. Scry at least gives you the option to weed out things you don't want.

The 1/3 body is definitely relevant, but still doesn't quite nearly enough on its own to be worth a card -- can't block spike jester, has trouble with boros reckoner and chandra's phoenix, etc.


The issue with Omenspeaker isn't that she's weaker than Augur -- although she is -- it's that she doesn't fill the same role.
Lategame she digs for necessary finishers, but the 1/3 body is irrelevant. Early in the game, the 1/3 body is relevant, but the scry is unlikely to do you much good unless you're desperately looking for a Supreme Verdict or something... in which case, the body isn't really doing you any good.

'Scry 2' just isn't likely to be worth a card early in the game, where augur's ability would get you one ~60% of the time.

There's also the issue of what you'd take out for it. You can't really go below 26 lands, you're already low on finishers, and the rest of your deck is mostly overpowered 4-ofs.

 

[Wichu]

So I just put Dovescape, Eye of the Storm and Possibility Storm into my Ink-Treader Nephilim deck. I managed to get all four out at the same time (pretty difficult, since Dovescape and Possibility Storm interfere with each other).

It was filthy (in an amazingly awesome way).

 

[y2dvd]

The 1/3 body is definitely relevant, but still doesn't quite nearly enough on its own to be worth a card -- can't block spike jester, has trouble with boros reckoner and chandra's phoenix, etc.

Maybe I'm missing something here. Why can't it block a spike jester? And doesn't Augur of Bolas have the same problem vs Boros Reckoner or Chandra's Phoenix?

The issue with Omenspeaker isn't that she's weaker than Augur -- although she is -- it's that she doesn't fill the same role.
Lategame she digs for necessary finishers, but the 1/3 body is irrelevant. Early in the game, the 1/3 body is relevant, but the scry is unlikely to do you much good unless you're desperately looking for a Supreme Verdict or something... in which case, the body isn't really doing you any good.

Augur's body is irrelevant late game too. What Omen will bring is consistency. One too many times have I shipped out an Atherling or Resto Angel late game that would've sealed the deal. Even early game, I've shipped out lands I wish I didn't have to. Omen will give me the option to keep any much needed cards outside of instants/sorcery.

'Scry 2' just isn't likely to be worth a card early in the game, where augur's ability would get you one ~60% of the time.

Kinda touched on this already but early game, shipping away some much needed land by playing Augur is not a good feeling. I know that's why U/W or U/W/R plays 26 lands. Maybe Omenspeaker will now allow you to play less lands thanks to being able to sort that land if you need it.

There's also the issue of what you'd take out for it. You can't really go below 26 lands, you're already low on finishers, and the rest of your deck is mostly overpowered 4-ofs.

I'd just put Omenspeaker where Augur was. I'm not saying it's necessary better, but I think it's a good replacement that will suit this set. You had to play a crazy amount of instants/sorcery to build around Augur. Omen will at least let you play other card types more safely. This will be an enchantment heavy set right? Omen will allow you to at least keep those enchantments (I'm looking at Thassa God and still say it's mainboardable lol) if you want.

 

[WanderingWind]

Put me down for the pro-Omenspeaker. It's going to fit the same exact role as Augur, but with the added bonus of not having to toss away valuable cards, making her far, far, far move valuable that Augur mid/late game.

Best case scenario with Augur: T2 drop, find a great spell to sit up until your next turn.
Best case scenario with Omenspeaker: T2 drop, find a great spell to draw into next turn.

It doesn't go as deep (by 1) as Augur, but considering her value vice Augur in late game, she's just fine by me.

 

[Lucario]

Put me down for the pro-Omenspeaker. It's going to fit the same exact role as Augur, but with the added bonus of not having to toss away valuable cards, making her far, far, far move valuable that Augur mid/late game.

Best case scenario with Augur: T2 drop, find a great spell to sit up until your next turn.
Best case scenario with Omenspeaker: T2 drop, find a great spell to draw into next turn.

It doesn't go as deep (by 1) as Augur, but considering her value vice Augur in late game, she's just fine by me.

It doesn't fill the same role because it doesn't net you a card. 2-for 1 with a ~30-40% chance of whiffing is a night and day difference from scry 2. Scry 2 will only incidentally get you virtual card advantage if you're desperately digging for something, badly need a land, need to put lands back on top, etc.

These are extremely unlikely scenarios on turn 2, to the point that I'd be comfortable saying "scry 2" is worth a card less than 20% of the time.

So we have a 60-70% chance of getting a real card vs a sub-20% chance of some virtual card advantage that's otherwise selection.

The scenarios where you lose desperately needed lands or creatures to augur are irrelevant. It's just as likely to put unnecessary lands on the bottom, getting you to required spells -- putting three cards from the top of a randomized deck on the bottom is not a downside at all. If you hadn't known what cards went on the bottom, you'd be perfectly comfortable with that outcome.

Remember: Magic is a game of chance, so probability is more important than potential results. With a results-oriented mindset, Augur can whiff and put necessary cards on the bottom, so Omenreader seems like a good choice.

Thinking statistically, Omenreader isn't even a comparable card (except in that it's a 1/3).

W/U control doesn't exactly have 'dead cards', except Supreme Verdict in mirrors -- where omenreader's body is utterly irrelevant anyway -- and lands when you're flooded, etc. Scenarios where you'd be moving a dead card from the top to the bottom will happen so seldomly on turn 2 that it's hard to consider Scry 2 to be worth a card even a fourth as often as Augur's ability.

 

[bigkrev]

So Adam Yurchick posted his draft so far on Brainburst

2 Aetherling
2 Omenspeaker
1 Thassa, God of the Sea
1 Angel of Serenity

4 Azorius Charm
3 Sphinx's Revelation
4 Supreme Verdict
4 Syncopate
3 Detention Sphere
4 Essence Scatter

1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
4 Jace, Architect of Thought

4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Azorius Guildgate
10 Island
9 Plains

SB:
2 Angel of Serenity
4 Boros Reckoner
2 Dispel
4 Precinct Captain
3 Render Silent


I don't think I like the random Thassa, but this is about what I'm thinking as well.

 

[Lucario]

So Adam Yurchick posted his draft so far on Brainburst

2 Aetherling
2 Omenspeaker
1 Thassa, God of the Sea
1 Angel of Serenity

4 Azorius Charm
3 Sphinx's Revelation
4 Supreme Verdict
4 Syncopate
3 Detention Sphere
4 Essence Scatter

1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
4 Jace, Architect of Thought

4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Azorius Guildgate
10 Island
9 Plains

SB:
2 Angel of Serenity
4 Boros Reckoner
2 Dispel
4 Precinct Captain
3 Render Silent


I don't think I like the random Thassa, but this is about what I'm thinking as well.

I like the way he's dividing out win conditions, Elspeth as a 1-of isn't even something I considered.

I think he took too much inspiration from block constructed, though. Precinct Captain isn't a viable way to stop attackers in a format where all the aggro decks play magma jet, Omenspeaker doesn't profitably block much in aggro lists, and I think he forgot Fiendslayer Paladin existed.

 

[Sinatar]

The person who compared Omenspeaker to Index was bang on. It's far *far* worse then Auger.

 

[kirblar]

Sylvan Cataryid -> Jace is where you want to be.

 

[WanderingWind]

It doesn't fill the same role because it doesn't net you a card. 2-for 1 with a ~30-40% chance of whiffing is a night and day difference from scry 2. Scry 2 will only incidentally get you virtual card advantage if you're desperately digging for something, badly need a land, need to put lands back on top, etc.

These are extremely unlikely scenarios on turn 2, to the point that I'd be comfortable saying "scry 2" is worth a card less than 20% of the time.

So we have a 60-70% chance of getting a real card vs a sub-20% chance of some virtual card advantage that's otherwise selection.

The scenarios where you lose desperately needed lands or creatures to augur are irrelevant. It's just as likely to put unnecessary lands on the bottom, getting you to required spells -- putting three cards from the top of a randomized deck on the bottom is not a downside at all. If you hadn't known what cards went on the bottom, you'd be perfectly comfortable with that outcome.

Remember: Magic is a game of chance, so probability is more important than potential results. With a results-oriented mindset, Augur can whiff and put necessary cards on the bottom, so Omenreader seems like a good choice.

Thinking statistically, Omenreader isn't even a comparable card (except in that it's a 1/3).

W/U control doesn't exactly have 'dead cards', except Supreme Verdict in mirrors -- where omenreader's body is utterly irrelevant anyway -- and lands when you're flooded, etc. Scenarios where you'd be moving a dead card from the top to the bottom will happen so seldomly on turn 2 that it's hard to consider Scry 2 to be worth a card even a fourth as often as Augur's ability.

Definitely don't agree with your percentages there. Either with Augur or Omenspeaker on T2, you're not playing the spell now in your hand or now on the top of your deck until next turn. And I also don't really agree with not being results oriented. That mindset doesn't seat well with me, because all of how you build your deck is results oriented. It's just you have to play it out enough times before cutting and adding cards. There is literally no deckbuilding that isn't inherently results oriented. There aren't rogue pros slapping together decks based on no play testing whatsoever who are doing great things.

Sylvan Cataryid -> Jace is where you want to be.

Just admit you have a crush already!

 

[kirblar]

Just admit you have a crush already!

No.

Spoiler

That one's dead.

 

[bigkrev]

Definitely don't agree with your percentages there. Either with Augur or Omenspeaker on T2, you're not playing the spell now in your hand or now on the top of your deck until next turn. And I also don't really agree with not being results oriented. That mindset doesn't seat well with me, because all of how you build your deck is results oriented. It's just you have to play it out enough times before cutting and adding cards. There is literally no deckbuilding that isn't inherently results oriented. There aren't rogue pros slapping together decks based on no play testing whatsoever who are doing great things.

!

Ok, but even still, that's only on turn 2. On ANY OTHER TURN OF THE GAME, Auger is strictly better. On turn 23, drawing Auger and then finding any other spell with it is great- Scrying for 2 is not what you want to do. And considering the deck is running 7-8 2 mana counterspells (Essance Scatter and Syncopate), as well as Azorious Charm, tapping out on turn 2 is not exactly what you want to be doing.

BTW, does anyone think Gideon has any place in the upcomming Meta? I have a playset gathering dust!

 

[Sinatar]

Ok, but even still, that's only on turn 2. On ANY OTHER TURN OF THE GAME, Auger is strictly better. On turn 23, drawing Auger and then finding any other spell with it is great- Scrying for 2 is not what you want to do. And considering the deck is running 7-8 2 mana counterspells (Essance Scatter and Syncopate), as well as Azorious Charm, tapping out on turn 2 is not exactly what you want to be doing.

BTW, does anyone think Gideon has any place in the upcomming Meta? I have a playset gathering dust!

I think he's a bit undervalued as is, I've shoved him in a few decks and I'm never super unhappy to play him. As for how relevant he'll be? I dunno, he feels like a finisher in control decks but he's worse then Aetherling at that so I can't really see him taking over anything really.

 

[y2dvd]

The average U/W deck is running 26 lands, 11 creatures, and a planeswalker or 2. Lets just say the average amount of non instant/sorcery cards being played is 39, leaving 21 instant/sorcery in the rest of the deck, probably less if you're running Dententions Sphere. You're telling me the odds of Augur hitting an instant/sorcery is greater than 50%? I'm no mathmetician so I'm not going to break it down by how many cards was in your starting hand and how the odds change at each card Augur pulls out but if someone can do the math that would be nice to see!

 

[WanderingWind]

Yeah, until I see the receipts I'm just calling it an agree to disagree situation.

 

[Lucario]

No.

Spoiler

That one's dead.

I kind of just want to buy like 16 jaces to resell at this point

 

[bigkrev]

I kind of just want to buy like 16 jaces to resell at this point

I just sold a bunch of cards to the CFB buylist... i'm getting at least 4 jace with the credit.

 

[rCIZZLE]

So what else do you guys think are good pickups for the so-far theros standard? I've mostly just been picking up shocks since they seem to be the safest both long and short term investments. Advent of the Wurm seems underpriced given how despised DGM was by pack-openers everywhere. Abrupt Decay is one of the few allstars in the 3 main formats and is still somewhat cheap. DRS should be $20 before long. Not a whole lot else that jumps out at me as being obviously undervalued as far as legal in theros standard.

 

[crimsonspider89]

Will depends on what you want to play in THS. Aggro, pick up some cheap instants to do heroic shenanigans or wait till later and see if you can run tribal and pick up some mutavaults for that.

Ramp is going to be running two drops and three drops with two of the same color in there mana cost for some devotion trickery. Probably can be used in control as well. The bestow really doesn't do anything currently for me. Maybe in control decks or in ramp decks. But a little bit too costly.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

So I'm really re-evaluating my relationship with Magic Online right now.

I've been getting deeper and deeper into Modern on MTGO over the past year. I really like the format; there's a lot of fun decks to play, and I really enjoy where the metagame is right now. I feel like it has a lot to offer, and it's a lot of fun.

But what's becoming more and more clear to me is that trying to play Modern on MTGO is just a giant hassle. You can get a pick-up game at any time in the Tournament Practice room, but that's just full of jank and players who don't take the game seriously. If you want to play "for real", you have to play in tournaments. But daily events always fire at the most ridiculously inconvenient times for me (I'm in Perth, Australia right now), and Modern 8-mans simply don't fire at all during the times that Australia is awake and the US is asleep, unless I'm willing to sit and wait for an hour.

It turns out that unless I warp my entire schedule around it, I can't actually play competitive constructed Magic on MTGO, unless I want to blow my tickets on 2-man queues (which are terrible EV and just aren't appealing to me). And my schedule just got worse, as I just started work on a master's degree.

So as much as I love Modern, I'm seriously considering breaking up with constructed Magic altogether and dedicating my MTGO time to Limited. I can make Limited on MTGO fit my schedule, instead of where it is now where I have to make my schedule fit Modern dailies if I want to play semi-competitive Modern.

Does anyone else here play competitive constructed on MTGO regularly? Do you find it difficult to work tournaments in?

 

[Lucario]

So I'm really re-evaluating my relationship with Magic Online right now.

I've been getting deeper and deeper into Modern on MTGO over the past year. I really like the format; there's a lot of fun decks to play, and I really enjoy where the metagame is right now. I feel like it has a lot to offer, and it's a lot of fun.

But what's becoming more and more clear to me is that trying to play Modern on MTGO is just a giant hassle. You can get a pick-up game at any time in the Tournament Practice room, but that's just full of jank and players who don't take the game seriously. If you want to play "for real", you have to play in tournaments. But daily events always fire at the most ridiculously inconvenient times for me (I'm in Perth, Australia right now), and Modern 8-mans simply don't fire at all during the times that Australia is awake and the US is asleep, unless I'm willing to sit and wait for an hour.

It turns out that unless I warp my entire schedule around it, I can't actually play competitive constructed Magic on MTGO, unless I want to blow my tickets on 2-man queues (which are terrible EV and just aren't appealing to me). And my schedule just got worse, as I just started work on a master's degree.

So as much as I love Modern, I'm seriously considering breaking up with constructed Magic altogether and dedicating my MTGO time to Limited. I can make Limited on MTGO fit my schedule, instead of where it is now where I have to make my schedule fit Modern dailies if I want to play semi-competitive Modern.

Does anyone else here play competitive constructed on MTGO regularly? Do you find it difficult to work tournaments in?

I used to play competitive constructed on MTGO.

Even in the US, it's just too much of a pain. At most I was able to play a modern event after class once a week, then another on whichever day of the weekend they decided to schedule one. You have to fit your entire schedule around it, and even then it can be a pain -- I'm a pretty shitty player if I haven't had my coffee, and it's not like I'm gonna drink a cup during a tournament that starts at 4pm and ends at 8.

I feel like MTGO grinding kind of has to become a significant part of your life. It was for me, for a while, but I was way too uncomfortable spending four or five hours at a time in front of a computer only to win a few bucks every tournament.

Now that it isn't, of course, the only metagame I have any familiarity with is Modern, and anything else would be a moneypit.... which leads me to my next point. Do not play limited expecting to make money. Even when I was an 1850 drafter I didn't profit at all.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

I don't expect to make money at all. But I have a monthly "Magic Online" budget, which right now pretty much just goes to buying staples for my Modern collection. That could easily switch over to funding Limited play, and I would probably end up spending less overall depending upon how much free time I end up with in a given month.

The funny thing is that I don't even want to grind. I just feel like if I'm going to spend money on tier one decks, I want to play again people who are taking the game at least somewhat seriously. That doesn't happen on MTGO anywhere but tournaments with entry fees.

 

[Lucario]

I don't expect to make money at all. But I have a monthly "Magic Online" budget, which right now pretty much just goes to buying staples for my Modern collection. That could easily switch over to funding Limited play, and I would probably end up spending less overall depending upon how much free time I end up with in a given month.

The funny thing is that I don't even want to grind. I just feel like if I'm going to spend money on tier one decks, I want to play again people who are taking the game at least somewhat seriously. That doesn't happen on MTGO anywhere but tournaments with entry fees.

I know, and it sucks. Even 1v1 queuers don't necessarily take things seriously on there, with the amount of lazy brewing that goes on.

I really want to play competitive modern more often too, but it's pretty much impossible without scheduling everything around daily events

 

[ultron87]

New Magma Jet art is sweet:

 

[Exokell]

I play standard, block contstructed or sometimes modern/momir. I usually play for fun and mainly to get 35 QPs for that season. I usually multi queue, like maybe 2 tournaments at once so I could spend maybe 3 to 4 hrs after I come home from work.
Limited is horrible because it can be a huge money sink, its also annoying when you flood, get screwed or opponent has rare bombs you cant beat.

 

[ultron87]

This fella seems good.

 

[Lucario]

can't evaluate ramp ability, but seems like a fun thing for elfball I guess
wish he could protect himself better. seems like it'll just die pretty much immediately in anything resembling a mirror, but goddamn does he put pressure on control.

edit: tons and tons and tons and tons of pressure. jeez.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

 

[Haly]

Jesus christ.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

 

[Lucario]

Jesus christ.

midrange got its huntmaster replacement, and it puts even more pressure on control this time.

the +1 made me snap-'bleech', because I always want to play planeswalkers in superfriendsy decks which don't run too many creatures, but this guy is legitimately insane in midrange.

turn 3 this guy after Sylvan Carytid....

HE'S KOTH BUT YOU KEEP THE TOKENS AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO PLAY HIM IN MONO RED HOLY SHIT

EDIT:

Dat dragon. Dat pro-white. Dat haste.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Dat dragon. Dat pro-white. Dat haste.

He's a legitimate contender for the throne about to be vacated by Thundermaw Hellkite.

Being pro-white might actually be relevant in Modern as well.

 

[ultron87]

So with an elf on turn 1 you can turn 2 Domri, and turn 3 Xenagos. Scary.

 

[bigkrev]

So with an elf on turn 1 you can turn 2 Domri, and turn 3 Xenagos. Scary.

Thankfully, there is only going to be one elf in Standard as of right now.

Xenagos seems slightly weaker than Koth, which would put him at one of the more powerful planeswalkers around. I do wonder how R/G is going to survive the loss of Huntmaster, and the long game value of Thragtusk.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Domri and Xenagos don't go in the same deck though.

 

[Exokell]

So with an elf on turn 1 you can turn 2 Domri, and turn 3 Xenagos. Scary.

magic christmas land, this card is gonna be a beast with garruk caller of the beast(I have 5 mwahahaha!)
The thing is it works so well with domri too, Im really expeting a deck with all three planeswalkers.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

magic christmas land, this card is gonna be a beast with garruk caller of the beast(I have 5 mwahahaha!)
The thing is it works so well with domri too, Im really expeting a deck with all three planeswalkers.

Domri needs your deck to be dense with creatures. The more non-creature spells you add, the worse Domri gets. I don't think you'll see Domri decks add Xenagos; you'll see some decks with Domri, some with Xenagos, and they'll be different decks.

 

[Lucario]

You don't have much room for spells when you have Domri and goatman in the same deck.


....not sure if it matters, though. Holy shit, gruul. 3 of each, 4 magma jet, 23 lands, 27 creatures.

 

[Sinatar]

This fella seems good.

Not bad, a decent replacement for Garruk Relentless.

 

[Boogalogist]

Holy shit. Xenagos is insane!

 

[Exokell]

Domri needs your deck to be dense with creatures. The more non-creature spells you add, the worse Domri gets. I don't think you'll see Domri decks add Xenagos; you'll see some decks with Domri, some with Xenagos, and they'll be different decks.

Youve seen domri decks right, most play mizzium mortars. Im expeting people to play him over mortars due to its removal ability. A creature deck with 3 planeswalkers(xenagos, domri and garruk), has this ever happened?

 

[Negator]

Xenogears is insane. Damn!

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Youve seen domri decks right, most play mizzium mortars. Im expeting people to play him over mortars due to its removal ability. A creature deck with 3 planeswalkers(xenagos, domri and garruk), has this ever happened?

Yep. Mortars is a necessary evil to get opposing creatures out of the way. I just don't see Xenagos as appropriate for the "3-4 non-creature non-Domri" spell slots in a Domri deck.

I could, however, see him in the sideboard of a Domri deck for the control matchup, since Mortars is miserable against control.

 

[Sinatar]

Decks that want Domri and decks that want Xenagos are doing 2 very different things. There really isn't that much overlap, gotta look beyond the colors folks.

 

[Haly]

midrange got its huntmaster replacement, and it puts even more pressure on control this time.

the +1 made me snap-'bleech', because I always want to play planeswalkers in superfriendsy decks which don't run too many creatures, but this guy is legitimately insane in midrange.

turn 3 this guy after Sylvan Carytid....

HE'S KOTH BUT YOU KEEP THE TOKENS AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO PLAY HIM IN MONO RED HOLY SHIT

EDIT:

Dat dragon. Dat pro-white. Dat haste.

I was talking about those Nymphs actually. Bestow is almost as bad as cipher.

 

[Sinatar]

I was talking about those Nymphs actually. Bestow is almost as bad as cipher.

It's not *that* bad, but it's pretty bad. It's a limited mechanic intended to make your bears/grey ogres less onerous to draw late game.

 

[Lucario]

I was talking about those Nymphs actually. Bestow is almost as bad as cipher.

aw, I think they look fun for limited. Clunky value plays are my favorite plays.

 

[kirblar]

I'll say it: Xenagos is bad.