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[kirblar]

Where did Melvin and Vorthos come into play? Can't say I'm familiar with those, were they added in an update?



...I'm so sorry.

They got added as "extra" stuff for people who are wholly flavor vs wholly mechanical in how they appreciate cards.

 

[Wichu]

Yup, the way I've always understood it is that Vorthos and Melvin are more about appreciation while TSJ are more about enjoyment. I've definitely had huge surges in my appreciative level in the last couple years, to the point where I almost get more out of the game from that angle.

IIRC Timmy/Johnny/Spike are how you play the game, while Vorthos/Melvin are why you play the game.

Timmy/Johnny here, by the way.
I like to use rarely-used combos to achieve silly things - the deck I've been using recently (Ink-Treader Nephilim) is basically made of it. Nothing quite like exiling Rite of Replication under Eye of the Storm and making dozens of copies of my opponent's Darksteel Colossus. My opponent couldn't even abuse it because I also had Dovescape out (Ink-Treader's ability lets me bypass Dovescape).

 

[WanderingWind]

Fun? What is fun? Fun is crushing your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their playgroup.

Fun is watching somebody play right into your hands then crushing them and their hopes in one swift motion. Fun is playing a Sphinx's Revelation and to hear them sigh and mutter about the cost of standard these days. Fun is saying "swing for lethal." Fun is getting a playset of a card that counters a play that lost you a game. Fun is sideboarding in a way that catches your opponent off guard and seeing that surprise in their eyes when you play a card they didn't know you have. Fun is winning, fair and square.

In case anybody is confused I am a spike.

 

[kirblar]

Fun? What is fun? Fun is crushing your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their playgroup.

Fun is watching somebody play right into your hands then crushing them and their hopes in one swift motion. Fun is playing a Sphinx's Revelation and to hear them sigh and mutter about the cost of standard these days. Fun is saying "swing for lethal." Fun is getting a playset of a card that counters a play that lost you a game. Fun is sideboarding in a way that catches your opponent off guard and seeing that surprise in their eyes when you play a card they didn't know you have. Fun is winning, fair and square.

In case anybody is confused I am a spike.

omfg at your tag.

 

[Haly]

But in your hearts of hearts you're a zombie-loving Timmy.

 

[WanderingWind]

omfg at your tag.

Look upon my mighty tag, ye tagless and despair!

But in your hearts of hearts you're a zombie-loving Timmy.

Zombies, like bowties, are cool.

 

[Lucario]

Fun is going up against a player who is better than me, thinking a lot during the match, and learning something from it.

I feel like that's what being a spike is about. Not the result, but the game itself.

 

[WanderingWind]

Fun is going up against a player who is better than me, thinking a lot during the match, and learning something from it.

I feel like that's what being a spike is about. Not the result, but the game itself.

And you like learning because....

Because it helps you win the next time you're in that situation.

Be at peace with your spikiness.

 

[kirblar]

Fun is going up against a player who is better than me, thinking a lot during the match, and learning something from it.

I feel like that's what being a spike is about. Not the result, but the game itself.

Some spikes are obsessed with winning, some are obsessed with making a name, etc.

 

[Kacar]

My favorite way to play by far is 2v2 fatal fourways with my buddies and building crazy decks with them.

Also building decks is fun but i really just like mixing new age cards with super old ones to do cool stuff. When we play its just a balance, dark ritual, and lotus fest.

Also if I'm facing someone I don't know and they are just super serious and not even talking it just pretty boring for me. Shit talking and messing around is the core of the game for me.

I dunno where this puts me. Social
Johnny?

 

[Lucario]

Some spikes are obsessed with winning, some are obsessed with making a name, etc.

yeah, but the common ground is enjoying an atmosphere where everyone is on a similar level of play, has access to all the cards, etc.

People who bring their pimped out standard decks to casual FNMs with high school kids, they're Chads in my mind, not spikes. They don't enjoy the game for the interaction, if they enjoy the game at all -- they just want to shoot fish in a barrel.

 

[kirblar]

yeah, but the common ground is enjoying an atmosphere where everyone is on a similar level of play, has access to all the cards, etc.

People who bring their pimped out standard decks to casual FNMs with high school kids, they're Chads in my mind, not spikes. They don't enjoy the game for the interaction, if they enjoy the game at all -- they just want to shoot fish in a barrel.

Nooooot true, lol.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Fun is finding that obscure line that wins you the game. Fun is salvaging a draft gone off the rails and 3-0ing anyway. Fun is opening a bad sealed pool and still winning the majority of your matches. Fun is bettering myself at the game.

It's taken me almost a year to figure it out, but I'm pretty sure at this point I have more "fun" playing Draft than any other format.

 

[Lucario]

Nooooot true, lol.

then I need to re-read the psychographics

Fun is finding that obscure line that wins you the game. Fun is salvaging a draft gone off the rails and 3-0ing anyway. Fun is opening a bad sealed pool and still winning the majority of your matches. Fun is bettering myself at the game.

It's taken me almost a year to figure it out, but I'm pretty sure at this point I have more "fun" playing Draft than any other format.

this is pretty much how I feel, but I also really enjoy building decks and seeing if they become competitive

piloted by someone who isn't me

 

[blindrocket]

People who bring their pimped out standard decks to casual FNMs with high school kids, they're Chads in my mind, not spikes. They don't enjoy the game for the interaction, if they enjoy the game at all -- they just want to shoot fish in a barrel.

There was some of this at my very first FNM not too long ago. It was a pretty good mix, some HS kids and their pre-con decks (I had a pre-con as well!) but then other guys that frequent tournaments with decks worth several hundred dollars.

I don't really care about winning all that much because I can have fun regardless. However I do care about winning against the players that solely care about winning. If that makes sense.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

To go along with the video game analogies - there's a difference between the Spike who likes to pub stomp and the Spike who wants to play e-sports.

Both love to win. Only one loves the challenge.

 

[Grakl]

I dno, I played it at a friend's house last weekend. Shit was amazing, everyone died super fast and captain falcon was really overpowered.

Warlock punch did 666 damage.

samus >

 

[blindrocket]

rCIZZLE

You have PM, sir!

 

[acheron_xl]

No. Double sided cards weren't bad. They worked out much better than i anticipated.

Those abilities were trash.

Terrible. Double faced cards were fantastic. Banding was always garbage.

No amount of sense will override my irrational hatred of the double faced cards. I've been a supporter of every dumb thing they've ever done - even the fractional mana in Unhinged was a cool idea (though not the way they executed it,) but the double faced cards were a bridge too far for me.

 

[OnPoint]

No amount of sense will override my irrational hatred of the double faced cards. I've been a supporter of every dumb thing they've ever done - even the fractional mana in Unhinged was a cool idea (though not the way they executed it,) but the double faced cards were a bridge too far for me.

They were the cleverest way of forcing people to sleeve up. The flavor was good. The mechanic was not hard to understand. It actually played well across multiple mechanical variations. It was actually really popular as far as I've seen. Honestly, it was a home run.

 

[Jaeyden]

Tonight my group played mono colored star. Legacy ban list, max two of any card and we passed turns to the enemy color. Was a lot of fun. Now considering a star EDH game with all the Gods as commanders...could be fun.

 

[blindrocket]

They were the cleverest way of forcing people to sleeve up. The flavor was good. The mechanic was not hard to understand. It actually played well across multiple mechanical variations. It was actually really popular as far as I've seen. Honestly, it was a home run.

They boosted sales to Ultra Pro. lol

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Hahaha fuck you blue.

EDIT: It's not actually a very good card. But cards that hate on blue always seem to elicit some of the more amusing reactions from the community.

 

[Grakl]

ew

hydras are so ugly

 

[crimsonspider89]

Solid four five drop. Haste, uncounterable seems to give it a nice edge.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Fun is looking at pretty pictures and getting a shiny land in your booster pack.

 

[OnPoint]

Hahaha fuck you blue.

EDIT: It's not actually a very good card. But cards that hate on blue always seem to elicit some of the more amusing reactions from the community.

I actually don't think this is a bad card at all. Five mana makes it a 4/4 uncounterable prot blue haste beater. We can and have done much worse in the past.

 

[The Technomancer]

I actually don't think this is a bad card at all. Five mana makes it a 4/4 uncounterable prot blue haste beater. We can and have done much worse in the past.

Plus it has that flexibility if in a pinch you need it as a 3/3 or a 6/6

 

[Sinatar]

 

[bigkrev]

Hydra is a nice and balanced card for Green decks to punish control with. I'm shocked it doesn't have Hexproof.

 

[Sinatar]

Hydra is a nice and balanced card for Green decks to punish control with. I'm shocked it doesn't have Hexproof.

Thank fuck it doesn't. Jesus that would be rotten.

 

[OnPoint]

Hydra is a nice and balanced card for Green decks to punish control with. I'm shocked it doesn't have Hexproof.

Maybe they're learning their lesson?

 

[Lucario]

is it just me or is it pretty much idiotic to pick a color other than white or black at the prerelease
"you can use your rare in your deck" is an awful, awful, awful policy for a balanced format. You can either get a pretty much vanilla 4/5 for 4, a 4/5 for 5 that'll occasionally let you swing for 10 while risking your lands, a vanilla 6/6 that wins you the game when you hit 8 mana (assuming your opponent has no removal), or...

8+ power, probably 10 on average, split across multiple creatures, all evasive, with a minor drawback that won't be a big deal until you've already won
Serra Angel that's also a swingy game-winning enchantment


re: standard:

It's funny how red has the best cards in pretty much every archtype imaginable.

fwd: fwd: fwd: fwd: fwd: fwd: re: standard:

red has two good 1-drops (firedrinker satyr, rakdos cackler) and one workable 1-drop (foundry-street denizen). Also one meh 1-drop that'll get played if people are desperate enough (legion loyalist.)

RDW is very hard to stop. That sweeper that exiles? It was a necessary printing to keep control viable. You cannot 1-for-1 decks like this with spot removal, because chandra's phoenix, chandra herself, and arguably Burger King will eat you alive.

 

[WanderingWind]

RDW will be the deck to beat for the first month of this new standard. The deck is so fast and so resilient against the rest of the stuff that is slower

 

[Lucario]

RDW will be the deck to beat for the first month of this new standard. The deck is so fast and so resilient against the rest of the stuff that is slower

Pretty much all forms of midrange have been stomping pure RDW to death in testing -- especially thanks to Sylvan Caryatid.

The more resilient forms of rakdos with the Tyamet/Phoenix 'engine', though, have been doing alright against midrange and still beating every control list built before Anger of the Gods was spoiled. I wouldn't be surprised if a deck like that became the deck to beat -- hell, even just an aggro deck ending its curve in stormbreath while keeping room for the phoenix/chandra package -- at least until better control players than me learn to deal with it properly.

Unless testing with Anger of the Gods really turns things around, I am not going to be playing control immediately post-rotation. A midrange list -- one running VoR and smiter to deal with the many people trying to run control -- is probably the way to go.

Which midrange list, I still have no clue. Probably naya, but I hate playing it.

EDIT: someone mentioned W/G Archangel of Thune on the previous page, and I realized that deck lost almost nothing and gained quite a bit. I'm working on an almost-mono-white version that runs Brave the Elements now, for shits and giggles. I wanna see how this works out.

 

[Lucario]

actually never mind I don't want to be serious right now

building BUG prime speaker :V

 

[WanderingWind]

Pretty much all forms of midrange have been stomping pure RDW to death in testing -- especially thanks to Sylvan Caryatid.

The more resilient forms of rakdos with the Tyamet/Phoenix 'engine', though, have been doing alright against midrange and still beating every control list built before Anger of the Gods was spoiled. I wouldn't be surprised if a deck like that became the deck to beat -- hell, even just an aggro deck ending its curve in stormbreath while keeping room for the phoenix/chandra package -- at least until better control players than me learn to deal with it properly.

Unless testing with Anger of the Gods really turns things around, I am not going to be playing control immediately post-rotation. A midrange list -- one running VoR and smiter to deal with the many people trying to run control -- is probably the way to go.

Which midrange list, I still have no clue. Probably naya, but I hate playing it.

EDIT: someone mentioned W/G Archangel of Thune on the previous page, and I realized that deck lost almost nothing and gained quite a bit. I'm working on an almost-mono-white version that runs Brave the Elements now, for shits and giggles. I wanna see how this works out.

Stop trying to make Phoenix happen. It's not going to happen.

 

[Lucario]

Stop trying to make Phoenix happen. It's not going to happen.

you can't sit with the rest of the plastics anymore ;.;

 

[y2dvd]

is it just me or is it pretty much idiotic to pick a color other than white or black at the prerelease
"you can use your rare in your deck" is an awful, awful, awful policy for a balanced format. You can either get a pretty much vanilla 4/5 for 4, a 4/5 for 5 that'll occasionally let you swing for 10 while risking your lands, a vanilla 6/6 that wins you the game when you hit 8 mana (assuming your opponent has no removal), or...

8+ power, probably 10 on average, split across multiple creatures, all evasive, with a minor drawback that won't be a big deal until you've already won
Serra Angel that's also a swingy game-winning enchantment


re: standard:

It's funny how red has the best cards in pretty much every archtype imaginable.

fwd: fwd: fwd: fwd: fwd: fwd: re: standard:

red has two good 1-drops (firedrinker satyr, rakdos cackler) and one workable 1-drop (foundry-street denizen). Also one meh 1-drop that'll get played if people are desperate enough (legion loyalist.)

RDW is very hard to stop. That sweeper that exiles? It was a necessary printing to keep control viable. You cannot 1-for-1 decks like this with spot removal, because chandra's phoenix, chandra herself, and arguably Burger King will eat you alive.

What is Burger King and why are we calling it that?

 

[WanderingWind]

you can't sit with the rest of the plastics anymore ;.;

Sorry. If you're building a RDW with Phoenix you're building the wrong deck. That's a limited card only.

What is Burger King and why are we calling it that?

Not sure how you get Burger King out of this, but that's what he's been calling this since it was spoiled.

 

[OnPoint]

Murder kinda sounds like burger.

Not that crazy a leap.

 

[Lucario]

Sorry. If you're building a RDW with Phoenix you're building the wrong deck. That's a limited card only.

I'm really bad at picking up internet sarcasm, which I'm pretty certain this is, but for other readers: Phoenix was a 4-of alongside goblin guide and lightning bolt during Zendikar/Scars of Mirrodin standard.

It was a ~$5-6 rare because it was one of the best creatures in the best standard RDW in recent history.

I guess. But it's not helpful to players not as familiar with cards, right? I mean, I saw the spoiler and I had to google it to find it.

MtG nerds sure love to be inclusive. Jund. Junk. Mirror. Grixis Control. RDW. Timmy. Woobrew.

We're dense with the jargon o'er here.

Yeah, I agree with that. I need to explain things more clearly during my bouts of hyper typing.

 

[WanderingWind]

Murder kinda sounds like burger.

Not that crazy a leap.

I guess. But it's not helpful to players not as familiar with cards, right? I mean, I saw the spoiler and I had to google it to find it.

MtG nerds sure love to be inclusive. Jund. Junk. Mirror. Grixis Control. RDW. Timmy. Woobrew.

We're dense with the jargon o'er here.

I'm really bad at picking up internet sarcasm, which I'm pretty certain this is, but for other readers: Phoenix was a 4-of alongside goblin guide and lightning bolt during Zendikar/SoM standard.

It was a ~$5-6 rare because it was one of the best creatures in the best standard RDW in recent history.

And Shivan Dragon was once an awesome card. Things change. Metas shift.

Reckoner > Phoenix everyday all day in every situation that doesn't involve chumping a beefy flier, in which case you're probably losing anyway.

 

[Grakl]

but nobody flips burgers better than the burger king

 

[Keru_Shiri]

I'm really bad at picking up internet sarcasm, which I'm pretty certain this is, but for other readers: Phoenix was a 4-of alongside goblin guide and lightning bolt during Zendikar/SoM standard.

It was a ~$5-6 rare because it was one of the best creatures in the best standard RDW in recent history.

No arguable about it. It was a Standard with Lightning Bolt, Burst Lightning, Searing Blaze, Staggershock, Arc Trail, & Galvanic Blast. All those spells helped make Phoenix playable, but with the quality of burn only marginally improving, I don't know if Phoenix fits in this standard yet or not.

 

[ultron87]

His face/mask thing has a similar shape to the King.

 

[WanderingWind]

No arguable about it. It was a Standard with Lightning Bolt, Burst Lightning, Searing Blaze, Staggershock, Arc Trail, & Galvanic Blast. All those spells helped make Phoenix playable, but with the quality of burn only marginally improving, I don't know if Phoenix fits in this standard yet or not.

Yup. Right now we have Shock, Searing Spear 2.0 and Magma Jet as the playable red burn that hits players. Now, if Lighting Bolt comes back or something that is repeatable like a Lavamancer type card then we can talk Phoenix.

Until then, Reckoner over Phoenix and it's not even a close competition.

 

[Kacar]

So if i have multiple totem armors on a Guy I get to pick which dies first right? Or do they all die?

 

[Lucario]

And Shivan Dragon was once an awesome card. Things change. Metas shift.

Reckoner > Phoenix everyday all day in every situation that doesn't involve chumping a beefy flier, in which case you're probably losing anyway.

Reckoner isn't even in all of the (admittedly fringe) mono red lists that are placing well right now -- Phoenix, however, is a 4-of in literally all of them, and that's with much worse enablers than Magma Jet.

I can safely say that every post-rotation RDW list without four phoenixes is built incorrectly.

http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=5555&d=232151 (reckoner + phoenix)
http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=5612&d=232517 (phoenix only)

 

[OnPoint]

His face/mask thing has a similar shape to the King.

Haha awesome