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Magic: the GAFering |OT2|

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Reckoner isn't even in all of the (admittedly fringe) mono red lists that are placing well right now -- Phoenix, however, is a 4-of in literally all of them, and that's with much worse enablers than Magma Jet.

I can safely say that every post-rotation RDW list without four phoenixes is built incorrectly.

Yeah...nice 2/2 that goes to your hand bro. I'll just be locking down your board state with my 3CMC creature.

Not seeing it. At all. Phoenix is the type of card that you can safely just ignore. Reckoner has to be responded too.

But, I guess time will tell.
 

Lucario

Member
Yeah...nice 2/2 that goes to your hand bro. I'll just be locking down your board state with my 3CMC creature.

Not seeing it. At all. Phoenix is the type of card that you can safely just ignore. Reckoner has to be responded too.

But, I guess time will tell.

time doesn't even have to tell, it's putting up results right now with worse burn

daily event 4-0s, top 8s, etcs this month with chandra's phoenix in mono red: 17
with boros reckoner in mono red: 2. One also ran the full set of phoenix, one was a fringe list with all creatures and no mutavaults.

You guys are on opposite ends... Who will win? Make it interesting, avatar bet?

I'd gladly do an avatar bet.
 
Reckoner isn't even in all of the (admittedly fringe) mono red lists that are placing well right now -- Phoenix, however, is a 4-of in literally all of them, and that's with much worse enablers than Magma Jet.

I can safely say that every post-rotation RDW list without four phoenixes is built incorrectly.

http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=5555&d=232151 (reckoner + phoenix)
http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=5612&d=232517 (phoenix only)

Interesting, though I wonder how much of it's success can be attributed to helping Hellrider triggers. I'm not saying it won't be playable in the new Standard, but part of it's success was the amazing support cast of burn spells that was available at the time.

That said, Reckoner will probably lose value if the format does indeed shift to heavy control.
 

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
time doesn't even have to tell, it's putting up results right now with worse burn

daily event 4-0s, top 8s, etcs this month with chandra's phoenix in mono red: 17
with boros reckoner in mono red: 2. One also ran the full set of phoenix, one was a fringe list with all creatures and no mutavaults.

Wait. Are we talking now or post rotation? Because we were talking post rotation. Hellrider is leaving.

EDIT: What Keru said.
 

Lucario

Member
meh, I wanna do some playtesting. No point in arguing this further if I can't bait you into an avatar bet over it :p

WW, you available in the next few hours? teach me how to use cockatrice
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
His face/mask thing has a similar shape to the King.

burger-king-king.jpg
Tymaret-the-Murder-King-Theros-Spoiler.jpg

Ahahaha it does
 

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
meh, I wanna do some playtesting. No point in arguing this further if I can't bait you into an avatar bet over it :p

WW, you available? teach me how to use cockatrice

Nah, I'm working.

And an avatar bet is whatever. But like, what criteria? And I'm not even entertaining serious deckbuilding until we get the full spoilers. RDW often lives on the cards that fall in the margins. There may be something that that changes my mind. I'm not a politician, I can change my mind based on new info.

But right now? Reckoner.
 

OnPoint

Member
Margins could be:

"is Chandra's Phoenix standard maindeckable in standard RDW post-rotation"

Limit, 1.5 months after rotation for the card to help win a tourney.

Avatar chosen for loser by winner, til next set comes out.
 

Lucario

Member
Nah, I'm working.

And an avatar bet is whatever. But like, what criteria? And I'm not even entertaining serious deckbuilding until we get the full spoilers. RDW often lives on the cards that fall in the margins. There may be something that that changes my mind. I'm not a politician, I can change my mind based on new info.

But right now? Reckoner.

If more top 8 (and daily event 4-0) mono-red aggro lists use Phoenix than not, I win
If more lists don't use Phoenix, you win.

Void if RDW isn't a competitive deck, time's up two weeks after the set releases on MTGO.

You know you want to.

Margins could be:

"is Chandra's Phoenix standard maindeckable in standard RDW post-rotation"

Limit, 1.5 months after rotation for the card to help win a tourney.

Avatar chosen for loser by winner, til next set comes out.

This works too, but then I auto-lose if RDW isn't competitive enough to win a tourney, which I'm not 100% certain it is.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
How much is the Murder King preordering for? I want to edit one with the Burger King face to keep alongside my copy of Myr Battlesphere that I put the Prince from Katamari on top of
 

Lucario

Member
How much is the Murder King preordering for? I want to edit one with the Burger King face to keep alongside my copy of Myr Battlesphere that I put the Prince from Katamari on top of

$2.50 I think.

Honestly, while I don't think it's a bad idea to preorder, I definitely overrate the card a little because it's so silly.

Getting one to alter is a noble fuckin' pursuit, though. Post pics when it's done!
 

Grakl

Member
Stop trying to make Phoenix happen. It's not going to happen.

Sorry. If you're building a RDW with Phoenix you're building the wrong deck. That's a limited card only.

Well, again. It's just an avatar. But we're not working with full information. What kind of fucking idiot makes a bet without knowing the actual parameters?

you're the one predicting how phoenix will do after rotation, boss

if you wanna backtrack then you're doing a good job of it
 

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
you're the one predicting how phoenix will do after rotation, boss

if you wanna backtrack then you're doing a good job of it

Jesus kid. Grow up.

This isn't some socio-political thread. Sorry if I'm being somewhat facetious. Hope that doesn't offend your sensibilities too much. If it does, deal.
 
Yeah, it's kinda silly to make meta calls before a complete spoiler. All it takes is one card, and we seem to have a lot of potential "one cards".

And perhaps the bigger question RDW faces: Satyr Firedrinker - yay or nay?
 

OnPoint

Member
Yeah, it's kinda silly to make meta calls before a complete spoiler. All it takes is one card, and we seem to have a lot of potential "one cards".

And perhaps the bigger question RDW faces: Satyr Firedrinker - yay or nay?
Eh, happens in the sports threads all the time. Make a call, stick by it and have faith.
 

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Now, if Lighting Bolt comes back or something that is repeatable like a Lavamancer type card then we can talk Phoenix.

But, I guess time will tell.

Remind me after we get full spoilers. We'll revisit then.

Just saying. I'm not dodging a silly avatar bet. No need to be a dick about Magic cards, right? But come on, who bets on shit without even having a solid base of info.

Remember Desecration Demon? Didn't see play until recently when the right set of tools was made available. Abrupt Decay was an insane spoiler that really only recently started to pop up in standard, justifying it's preorder price.

If something that supports Phoenix's mechanics is spoiled, then that would obviously change the value of the card. But until we know what's up, the bet would be more "Hey, want to bet on the remainder of the unspoiled cards."

Like I said, when the set is spoiled, we can revisit. If there isn't anything big, I'm down for like, a month bet or something if Reckoner isn't played more than Phoenix. Or whatever.

It's all in fun
 

Lucario

Member
I'm really liking Reaper of the Wilds these days. It dodges just enough removal to be something I'd consider relevant. While it's incredibly soft to Soldier of the Pantheon and Supreme Verdict, it dodges all red burn -- red having some of the best removal in the format -- in addition to doom blade, abrupt decay etc.

It's also one of the few 4-drops that can reliably trade with Boros Reckoner, assuming you keep mana open for the oh-so-good triggered hexproof.

While I wouldn't preorder it at the current SCG rate of ~$4 (just because I feel that Theros prices are too bloated as a whole to take the risk), it's definitely a strong 4-drop for an upcoming B/G or B/U/G list. I can't exactly figure out an exact 75 I like, but here's a list of some of my considerations for the 60.

Has anyone been considering these colors who would like to chime in? There's something here, but I can't figure it out, and I'm sure someone on magic-gaf can.

Code:
doods.dec:

X Thoughtseize
X Elvish Mystic (definitely not in the three color list!)

4 Sylvan Caryatid
3 Scavenging Ooze
X Lotleth Troll 

X Lifebane Zombie
X Dreg Mangler (kills planeswalkers just fine, but is it good enough?)
3 Varolz
X Boon Satyr (I need to test with this, especially considering how much fun it seems like)

4 Reaper of the Wilds
X Polukranos

X Kalonian Hydra (awful in this list due to the fact that it enables a lot of removal we dodge, likely 0)

X Aetherling (Seems awful in this list, but I think I like the idea of having 2 in the board against control? Am I not thinking this through?)

3 Prime Speaker Zegana (this is the reason I want to run blue. Probably not enough to warrant the weak mana base and constant shockland hits -- in fact, almost certainly not, considering how badly it eats syncopate and that it can't follow up a Verdict -- but it's still fun to think about drawing five or six cards off one!)

X Mistcutter Hydra (likely 0, keep in SB)



removal:

X Abrupt Decay
X Doom Blade
X Journey's End (this has been good against decks with few hasted creatures, but we don't really need it.)
X Cyclonic Rift (board)
X Far // Away

X Putrefy
X Hero's Downfall

(more goes here, was just working with my favorites)


planeswalkers:

X Ashiok
X Jace, AoT
X Vraska

They all seem good to me, honestly, and give us a chance to recover from wraths.

CA/Selection:

X Grisly Salvage (not good enough unless we add a ~lot~ more recursion)
X Read the Bones (good, but how much life loss do we want to take from our own cards?)
X Opportunity (wants to be in a deck with more instants.)


sweepers:

X Gaze of Granite (is this good enough? it is painstakingly slow)


permission: this deck probably doesn't want any, but if it does:

X Syncopate
X Psychic Strike



BUG version:

4 Temple of Mystery
X Temple of Deciet
4 Watery Grave
4 Breeding Pool
4 Overgrown Tomb
basic lands depend on final build of deck, obviously

BG version:

4 Golgari Guildgate
4 Overgrown Tomb
~basics
 

OnPoint

Member
Just saying. I'm not dodging a silly avatar bet. No need to be a dick about Magic cards, right? But come on, who bets on shit without even having a solid base of info.

Remember Desecration Demon? Didn't see play until recently when the right set of tools was made available. Abrupt Decay was an insane spoiler that really only recently started to pop up in standard, justifying it's preorder price.

If something that supports Phoenix's mechanics is spoiled, then that would obviously change the value of the card. But until we know what's up, the bet would be more "Hey, want to bet on the remainder of the unspoiled cards."

Like I said, when the set is spoiled, we can revisit. If there isn't anything big, I'm down for like, a month bet or something if Reckoner isn't played more than Phoenix. Or whatever.

It's all in fun
But there lies the risk and the fun for BOTH parties. Not having the full spoiler is the varying factor that makes it partially a game of chance
 

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
yiFgpGD0tnh_EN_LR.jpg


Didn't see this posted yet...

Well, that's a card. Hexproof as an activated ability is fun.

Not sure where that thing fits, but it seems good

But there lies the risk and the fun for BOTH parties

Eh. People don't bet during the offseason. They bet once the season begins and the rosters are set. The variance comes within a set of established parameters in every bet. But whatever.
 

OnPoint

Member
Well, that's a card. Hexproof as an activated ability is fun.

Not sure where that thing fits, but it seems good



Eh. People don't bet during the offseason. They bet once the season begins and the rosters are set. The variance comes within a set of established parameters in every bet. But whatever.
Fair enough. Maybe when the full spoiler comes out
 

Lucario

Member
Woah, reaper got posted about while I was typing that up? Shit, we're becoming a hivemind. :p

I'm having a rough time dividing those spells into a creature-based midrange list -- which seems too durdly -- and a spell-based list, which seems like it'll get blown out by any decks running the correct removal (ie control).

There just has to be something there.

edit: Ooze is effectively an x-spell later in the game. Mistcutter is literally an X-spell. Reaper is good played on turn 4, better on turn 6.

Could the strength be in the flexibility?
 

Lucario

Member
Is Scry 3 the largest amount of Scrying in the set so far?

Unfortunately.

I want to see creatures with weird, repeatable 'scry 2' abilities stapled to them. Gotta find a way to bubble sort my deck.

A judge once told me that infinite 'scry 2' isn't equivalent to sorting my deck, though. Even though there are mathematical proofs that it is. Has this ruling been fixed yet?
 

Yeef

Member
Unfortunately.

I want to see creatures with weird, repeatable 'scry 2' abilities stapled to them. Gotta find a way to bubble sort my deck.

A judge once told me that infinite 'scry 2' isn't equivalent to sorting my deck, though. Even though there are mathematical proofs that it is. Has this ruling been fixed yet?
Super Scry {U}
Instant

Scry X where X is your life total.

Buyback 0

Obviously, this card should exist.
 
I'm pretty sure Wizards will take every attempt to make repeatable Scry something that's difficult to do, given how much they try to combat big reductions in variance.
 

kirblar

Member
Why

Green should have problems with large indestructible creatures. This is not 1999. It's the second-best color in the game now.
 

Yeef

Member
I don't think we'll see any multicolor commons in this set. The draft strategy seems to push players toward a monocolor deck with another color splashed.
 
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