As a 4cc+ critter it'd be fine - way too expensive for Legacy.
This is an example of "why you make some cards bad", btw.
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Magic: the GAFering |OT2|
- Thread starter The Technomancer
- Start date
This is an example of "why you make some cards bad", btw.
OneEightZero
aka ThreeOneFour
You're absolutely right. It's merely another permanent.
I'll refrain from using such an antiquated explanation in the future when discussing Magic rules with beginners.
blindrocket
Member
I agree. And would remain fine for Commander.
Yep. It'll probably get banned. I tried to make a case for it but couldn't haha
They won't do it for at least ~6 months though. They need to get more public pushes for it to avoid the backlash.
divisionbyzorro
Member
They essentially printed a better Geist of St Traft, in that it can't be blanked by other fair decks.
And it's one color. And it dodges damage removal. And it's not legendary.
divisionbyzorro
Member
I have no idea what he's like in person, but his persona on his Channel Fireball videos is incredibly obnoxious. But he is incredibly talented.
I decided to play Legacy just in time for a banning controversy. 
I know it's a curated format, but it would be a shame if a format with a card pool that big can't solve a creature like that.
Hey now, I didn't say Prophecy.
I know it's a curated format, but it would be a shame if a format with a card pool that big can't solve a creature like that.
Hey now, I didn't say Prophecy.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
So Alternate Win Condition week with my friends results in this
True Name Nemesis is just ridiculous. If I were more self-righteous I would have burned my copies instead of flipping them. It will be banned or restricted in due time anyways.
What I find most distasteful is that the card negates player interaction - which kind of seems to be the purpose of the game.
What I find most distasteful is that the card negates player interaction - which kind of seems to be the purpose of the game.
The card, as designed, is fine. (in MTG design stage 1)
It's just not costed appropriately. (mtg design stage 2: development.)
I might be, the store that is running it (The Encounter) is my LGS. Really good shop.
And yes, True-Name Nemesis was a mistake. It needed to be 2UU or UUU, maybe. The dumb thing is that it's a 3/1 as well. 2/1 and we might not be having this same issue.
Oh, forgot it's also in a relevant tribe.
They better not before I trade off my two sealed Mind Seize that I picked up.
I have my one for EDH, these were bonus.
EsotericManiac
Banned
I don't think you have anything to worry about.
They'd ban show and tell before it
They'd ban show and tell before it
Toys R Us has always been a terrible place to buy MTG
This is much more bannable than SnT. It's going to demolish deck diversity among blue-based aggro.
Been saying Esper is a bad deck for months now.
EsotericManiac
Banned
You could say it's easier to ban, but I don't think it's as necessary.
TNN is fairly underwhelming without all the equipment, which pretty much means you have to play white with him.
SnT is the most degenerate thing in the format.
TNN is fairly underwhelming without all the equipment, which pretty much means you have to play white with him.
SnT is the most degenerate thing in the format.
EsotericManiac
Banned
The clock from TNN is pretty darn slow
a Jitte on a flyer completely negates it
a Jitte on a flyer completely negates it
You can swords the delver or decay the Jitte.
TNN just pushes the game to a terrible state.
EsotericManiac
Banned
how so?
where you think everyone is running 4x TNN? no interaction between players?
even with TNN, what's the fastest you think you can kill someone with a TNN deck?
Yes, it just becomes "how fast can you race with TNN" in aggro mirrors. Even in DnT vs TNN it's a race. It's completely stupid.
EsotericManiac
Banned
I think it's possible for the card to be a problem, but I don't see it anywhere close to that point yet.
If it continues to get "bigger" i can imagine cards like phantasmal image being better
If it continues to get "bigger" i can imagine cards like phantasmal image being better
Pithing Needle-style effect?
This is what I'm hoping for with Humility
Though Phantasmal Image is an insanely decent answer.
EsotericManiac
Banned
This is what I'm hoping for with Humility
Though Phantasmal Image is an insanely decent answer.
I wouldn't think of it so much as an answer...
but you would think in a TNN mirror, going up to 6 would be huge. If you were both on UWR delver, it's not like copying a stoneforge is bad either
Can't say I like Brainstorm myself.
You could do a kind of targeted edict. "As you cast CARDNAME name a nonland creature permanent, each player sacrifices all cards in play with that name."
:jnc
Those would probably cost far more than TNN since, well, they answer basically every other creature you can think of. It'd still incur a tempo loss. And there's FoW too. Ironically, extra TNNs can be pitched for FoW, so if you don't overextend to avoid a 2-for-1 you also have a blue card to pitch! So they aren't reliable answers either unless they are uncounterable.
lol that card is a goddamn mess.
lol that card is a goddamn mess.
That card is just terrible design and the proof that modern MTG design is getting shittier and shittier.
Our player want to interact, so we removed land destruction and nerfed counterspells. Ok dude, but now you removed a way to possibly interact with your opponent, via mana denial and spell removal. IT WAS UNFUN! Ok.
You know what's fun? Attacking with creatures. Big creatures. But big creatures can be removed, and we don't want that (didn't we want our player to interact and as such you nerfed ld and counters? ok dude), so we print creatures with hexproof that our opponent can't remove, and in some case he can't even block.
At the end of this downward spiral sit TNN, where the game is decided by who start first, and draw more TNN, unless you're playing combo, and in any case you're forced to play blue because blue has TNN AND the best answers to combo.
That card is just a shitty design. A card that just completely avoid every single kind of interaction by design can't be a good thing for this game really. We want our games to be more interactive nor less. Else i'd play solitaire.
Our player want to interact, so we removed land destruction and nerfed counterspells. Ok dude, but now you removed a way to possibly interact with your opponent, via mana denial and spell removal. IT WAS UNFUN! Ok.
You know what's fun? Attacking with creatures. Big creatures. But big creatures can be removed, and we don't want that (didn't we want our player to interact and as such you nerfed ld and counters? ok dude), so we print creatures with hexproof that our opponent can't remove, and in some case he can't even block.
At the end of this downward spiral sit TNN, where the game is decided by who start first, and draw more TNN, unless you're playing combo, and in any case you're forced to play blue because blue has TNN AND the best answers to combo.
That card is just a shitty design. A card that just completely avoid every single kind of interaction by design can't be a good thing for this game really. We want our games to be more interactive nor less. Else i'd play solitaire.
Since this is a card that will never be made, sure, why not make it uncounterable! A converted mana cost no higher than 3 too.
As an additional cost to play CARDNAME, pay 2 life.
#rememberwhen shadow was evil incarnate?
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/daily/rb51
divisionbyzorro
Member
Don't forget that it was printed in Commander. It's actually a really interesting design for a multiplayer setting, and not at all overpowered there. It's also not so obviously broken that it would need to be pre-banned in Legacy. The right thing to do is let it loose, see what happens, and ban if necessary, which is what they're doing.
Shadow's still awful.
Not awful enough to never bring back though. :twisted:
(Did Randy have to write about that? He was still at Wizzos when Time Spiral dropped. I never got a "we're full of shit" when Kamigawa Block came out after mtg.com extolled the virtues of not using real world flavor for years and I'm still miffed about that.)
EsotericManiac
Banned
I don't get most of your argument, especially in regards to blue being the best to answer combo decks. I assume you're talking about just countering combo pieces, which could easily be said about TNN.
I'm not sure how you can say TNN is the epitome of a downward spiral given the fact that it just really started seeing considerable play and hardly any decks have adapted to it being played so heavily.
Decks like mono black pox just seem to get better in comparison as they never have to target your creatures anyway.
divisionbyzorro
Member
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/275b
MTGO Update: Dailies and PEs are expected to return December 11th. PTQs and MOCs are still unknown.
MTGO Update: Dailies and PEs are expected to return December 11th. PTQs and MOCs are still unknown.
Honestly, this is probably one of the best answers to TNN and it was printed in the same set.
Legacy cost? Three mana, pay one life (in this situation). Seems on curve to me. Check.
Kills TNN but is also useful against other cards? Check.
I'm torn on TNN. On one hand, it's degenerate. But it's not so degenerate that warps the meta. I don't think the time to ban it has come just yet. I just think the metagame has to shift to account for it. If it gets to be too big a problem they'll take care of it, but the card pool is too diverse for players to not find a proper answer. Even Jace, the unofficial tenth member of the Power Nine is playable and fair in Legacy. Remember Grisselbrand getting a bad wrap when he first landed? Now he sees play in two decks. Two good decks (well, Reanimator is debatably good), but not two unbeatable decks. I feel like people will adjust.
Legacy cost? Three mana, pay one life (in this situation). Seems on curve to me. Check.
Kills TNN but is also useful against other cards? Check.
I'm torn on TNN. On one hand, it's degenerate. But it's not so degenerate that warps the meta. I don't think the time to ban it has come just yet. I just think the metagame has to shift to account for it. If it gets to be too big a problem they'll take care of it, but the card pool is too diverse for players to not find a proper answer. Even Jace, the unofficial tenth member of the Power Nine is playable and fair in Legacy. Remember Grisselbrand getting a bad wrap when he first landed? Now he sees play in two decks. Two good decks (well, Reanimator is debatably good), but not two unbeatable decks. I feel like people will adjust.
ThLunarian
Member
This is my favorite post in this entire thread
divisionbyzorro
Member
....and tonight is the night where I realized that I am, in fact, officially bored of Theros limited. Cube can't get here fast enough.
So what he's saying is ban Stoneforge. Got it.
EsotericManiac
Banned
I did say yesterday that TNN is pretty poop unless you play white with him..
and is another reason why i recommended phantasmal image. it's like taking it back to old standard.
i plan on play 3 TNN, 1 SB, and 2 Images in the board as well as a Man-riku Gusari (sp?)
seems like a good plan against the mirror
and is another reason why i recommended phantasmal image. it's like taking it back to old standard.
i plan on play 3 TNN, 1 SB, and 2 Images in the board as well as a Man-riku Gusari (sp?)
seems like a good plan against the mirror
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