You can go crazy low in W/R - like 13/14 low. But this deck wants to go VOLTRON on people and is mana hungry.
Yeah, this isn't the deck for that card.
Magic: the GAFering |OT2|
- Thread starter The Technomancer
- Start date
lawlohwhat
Banned
You're probably right about that
divisionbyzorro
Member
You can, but your ability to do that is (more or less) directly related to the number of Dragon Mantles and Akroan Crusaders you have. And that's a particular subset of the WR deck; most of the Wingsteed Rider/Phalanx Leader decks still need 16 lands to function properly because they need access to double white and red.
kirblar said:
My eyes are failing me today; I didn't even notice that. Yes - Disciple should go.
lawlohwhat
Banned
actually got mana flooded in 2/3 games
lol @ this game
lol @ this game
blindrocket
Member
I'm sleeving my Commander decks right now and came across Stronghold Assassin.
Wouldn't Royal Assassin be better?
I suppose the downside would be if it's a creature with an ability they want to use without intention of tapping it, then Royal Assassin couldn't touch it.
Wouldn't Royal Assassin be better?
I suppose the downside would be if it's a creature with an ability they want to use without intention of tapping it, then Royal Assassin couldn't touch it.
divisionbyzorro
Member
He's a zombie, which should give you a hint. Sometimes sacrificing your own creatures can be beneficial. Plus, as you mentioned, you can hit untapped creatures with it.
Also, in Commander, you can only have one of each, so...why not run both?
Also, in Commander, you can only have one of each, so...why not run both?
blindrocket
Member
That's an option I considered.
I realize the interaction with the Commander Prossh, since he's spawning out at least six 0/1 creatures when he gets cast. Lots of fodder to sacrifice.
I keep going back and forth from Magic to Hearthstone, and I'm slowly realizing that WoTC's removal of 'feel-bad' mechanics -- like slivers which pump your opponents' slivers -- was the correct choice.
Having something with a beneficial enters the battlefield effect be forced to target your opponent's creatures is a terrible mechanic.
At the same time, fun mechanics are gone. I can't gain more life than my starting amount. I can't have more than a certain number of creatures out at once. I can never ramp above 10 mana. I can't choose to build decks with lower curves and fewer resources. I can't respond to the spell that takes away a third of my health in one blow, because there's no response system.
Drafts aren't with other players, but are instead glorified random deck generators -- newer players still have trouble making picks (I know I did!), but with only three randomly generated cards to choose from, it's incredibly easy to be forced into a deck with a lopsided curve. It's easy to be presented with three mythic rares (or legendaries, or whatever), and have them all be specific to a certain strategy that isn't even draftable.
Hearthstone has greatly improved my sequencing skills in Magic, and I recommended it for that purpose. It's also a ridiculously fun distraction, and it's a card game you can play during a work break -- matches are damn short.
At the same time, it's a shame they didn't take design clues that were right in front of their damn faces.
Having something with a beneficial enters the battlefield effect be forced to target your opponent's creatures is a terrible mechanic.
At the same time, fun mechanics are gone. I can't gain more life than my starting amount. I can't have more than a certain number of creatures out at once. I can never ramp above 10 mana. I can't choose to build decks with lower curves and fewer resources. I can't respond to the spell that takes away a third of my health in one blow, because there's no response system.
Drafts aren't with other players, but are instead glorified random deck generators -- newer players still have trouble making picks (I know I did!), but with only three randomly generated cards to choose from, it's incredibly easy to be forced into a deck with a lopsided curve. It's easy to be presented with three mythic rares (or legendaries, or whatever), and have them all be specific to a certain strategy that isn't even draftable.
Hearthstone has greatly improved my sequencing skills in Magic, and I recommended it for that purpose. It's also a ridiculously fun distraction, and it's a card game you can play during a work break -- matches are damn short.
At the same time, it's a shame they didn't take design clues that were right in front of their damn faces.
How many Arena wins so far?
How many Arena wins so far?
Usually I go 7-3 or 8-3. Only one 9-x so far.
Still pretty new though, so I could easily start getting stomped soon.
Oh, there's a tracker in your quest/exp log.
(I'm at 555) I also always quit at 8 because of the guaranteed pack/gold foil instead of a gold pile when you're 9-X.Keru_Shiri
Member
That's an option I considered.
I realize the interaction with the Commander Prossh, since he's spawning out at least six 0/1 creatures when he gets cast. Lots of fodder to sacrifice.
Never underestimate a good sac outlet. Especially in Commander.
EsotericManiac
Banned
The Jund commander deck is all about sac outlets
Main Deck
4 Mutavault
19 Swamp
3 Temple of Deceit
4 Pack Rat
4 Nightveil Specter
4 Desecration Demon
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
4 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
2 Devour Flesh
1 Doom Blade
4 Hero's Downfall
4 Thoughtseize
2 Ultimate Price
4 Underworld Connections
Sideboard
3 Dark Betrayal
1 Doom Blade
3 Duress
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
3 Lifebane Zombie
3 Pharika's Cure
1 Shrivel
So this is the ideal mono black deck list? No whip of erebos? thinking of trying to pick up the cards to build this for the Pro Tour Atlanta qualifier.
4 Mutavault
19 Swamp
3 Temple of Deceit
4 Pack Rat
4 Nightveil Specter
4 Desecration Demon
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
4 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
2 Devour Flesh
1 Doom Blade
4 Hero's Downfall
4 Thoughtseize
2 Ultimate Price
4 Underworld Connections
Sideboard
3 Dark Betrayal
1 Doom Blade
3 Duress
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
3 Lifebane Zombie
3 Pharika's Cure
1 Shrivel
So this is the ideal mono black deck list? No whip of erebos? thinking of trying to pick up the cards to build this for the Pro Tour Atlanta qualifier.
lawlohwhat
Banned
My main deck is exactly the same, but -1 duress, -1 dark betrayal, +1 devour flesh and +1 shrivel in the sideboard.
Took out the whip because it's just too slow, and I never really find myself wanting to draw it like I would a demon, rat, gary, connections, specter, or removal. Pack rat just chomps everything if you get the right mana draw. Specter/gary bombs are enough life gain without a whip, and demon can easily take over a game and win before lifelink really matters.
Mono blue matchup is kind of coin flippy, but black definitely holds its own. Also I think the addition of the 26th land really helps the smoothness of the mana curve, which seems to be really important against mono blue.
lawlohwhat
Banned
If you're whipping back rats you've lost the game already...
Just a late game scenario. Mono-black isn't aggro. There will be plenty of games that extends pretty long. I've seen a Whipped rat do work. It let's you refill the board with a permanent if you've exhausted Whipping all your other creatures from the graveyard.
Or are you just saying Whip doesn't win games because I will tell you you are wrong.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Just finished up my first ever Tempest block draft on MTGO. I've never drafted the set before, but I did a little bit of research and ended up drafting an incredibly low-curve, RW aggro deck with a bunch of Shadow creatures, goblins, and burn spells. And two Seething Anger. Holy crap - buying back Seething Anger on a Shadow creature feels like cheating.
I went 2-1, losing only to a guy who was doing exactly the same thing I was doing, except he was packing creature removal as his companion spells rather than burn. So he managed to stabilize and eventually win the matches, and ended up winning the entire Swiss.
So to anyone who drafted during this block; how much did the limited environment really revolve around Shadow? Was RW really dominant?
I went 2-1, losing only to a guy who was doing exactly the same thing I was doing, except he was packing creature removal as his companion spells rather than burn. So he managed to stabilize and eventually win the matches, and ended up winning the entire Swiss.
So to anyone who drafted during this block; how much did the limited environment really revolve around Shadow? Was RW really dominant?
From what I remember mono-black was insane...Dark Ritual into Carnophage, Foul Imp, backed up with some removal could easily go all the way.
Also, some rares are gamebreaking if set up correctly...Cataclysm, Recurring Nightmare, Cursed Scroll.
Slivers were a force to be reckoned with...until you got to the mirror.
lawlohwhat
Banned
It absolutely win games and I wouldn't fault anyone for using 1-2 whips because it's so strong. I've definitely won games by sacrificing my own gary and whipping him back for example. I could see whipping a rat as a win condition if you had a nykthos or a ton of mana on the field and made a grip of tokens from it, but by that point you're probably topdecking so where would you get your discards from?
Isn't that the question people have been asking for years, even outside of this?
acheron_xl
Member
Tempest block was stupidly fast. And if you opened a Rolling Thunder or two (or more) you were golden. They didn't do power level at common very well back then.
Everything.
divisionbyzorro
Member
I did a second draft and didn't do so well; only 1-2 in the Swiss. Also 0-6 on winning die rolls, and 0-6 on opening anything worth more than a few cents. C'est la vie. But I did win a game off of a mulligan to five (turns out that pikers with mountainwalk to do work against opponents with mountains; who knew). So my record stands at 3-3 in a set I've never looked at before yesterday.
Honestly, I'm really just doing this for the experience. As a relative newcomer to the game, I'm always fascinated to go back and play older sets to see how design has changed. It seems that their favorite mechanic to play around with back in the day was unblockability; they kept screwing around with so many different ways to break combat.
But what's really fascinating to me is to see just how much New World Order really did change the game. I came in long after that had happened, and to me these old sets are just chock-full of (relatively) insane levels of board-state complexity. They feel almost as crazy as cube drafts sometimes. There's a lot of "oh I didn't see that" moments. I can't decide whether that's good or bad; obviously WotC thinks it's bad (and, to be honest, losing to a weird combination of on-board tricks really is a feel-bad). But at the same time, is the current state of design where you're essentially making educated guesses about your opponent's possible combat tricks really any better? Or is it just different?
I'm not sure how many more drafts I'll do; obviously the possibility of opening a Wasteland is exciting, but without nostalgia to drive me through it, I'm not sure how many more tickets I really want to spend on this.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Tonight at FNM, I saw kids miss the simplest on-board interactions, running creatures into bad blocks or just outright not counting power and toughness correctly. When you miss something on board, you feel stupid. When you fail to play around a combat trick or your opponent's next play, you don't feel quite so stupid. Even though it's the same concept (you aren't taking all variables into consideration), you feel like it's less "your fault" because you "couldn't have known" what was in their hand.
I don't think the game requires any more or less skill than it did before, but the current design philosophy has changed the skill. It's far less chess-like and far more poker-like.
I agree, it's part of why I get bored a lot of the time when drafting. The problem with poker-like situations is that it's all about the cards in hand. I'd rather lose from a great on-board trick than from someone flashing an instant mass pump spell.
The on-board trick makes you feel stupid but at the same time makes you want to get on to the level of the opponent. An instant mass pump spell, unless cleverly played, doesn't feel that gratifying as a win condition for me..
Went to a local comic shop for Black Friday and picked up 4 Ravnica boosters and 3 Theros boosters. Ended up with:
- Polis Crusher
- Spear of Heliod
- Temple of Abandon
- Havoc Festival
- Jarad, Lich Lord
- Mana Bloom
- Temple Garden
and bought the last two Jace, Architect of Thoughts for my Esper deck. Total damage was $49. Any other good deals going on online for cards and stuff?
- Polis Crusher
- Spear of Heliod
- Temple of Abandon
- Havoc Festival
- Jarad, Lich Lord
- Mana Bloom
- Temple Garden
and bought the last two Jace, Architect of Thoughts for my Esper deck. Total damage was $49. Any other good deals going on online for cards and stuff?
Thanks. Also is that Spear of Heliod viable in an Esper deck fr the creatures I put out just for chump blocking? I'm debating between Sphere of Safety, Whip of Erebos, and Spear of Heliod to fill the slot for an enchantment in a deck like this:
- Land
4x Plains
4x Swamp
6x Island
2x Orzhov Guildgate
3x Dmir Guildgate
2x Azorius Guildgate
1x Hallowed Fountain
- Creatures
1x Lavinia of the Tenth
1x Blood Baron of Vizkopa
1x Aetherling
1x Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
1x Obzedat, Ghost Council
2x Jace, Architect of Thought
1x Azorius Arrester
2x Deputy of Acquittals
1x Basilica Screecher
1x High Priest of Penance
1x Sin Collector
1x Kingpin's Pet
1x Wall of Frost
- Sorcery/Enchantments
1x Sphere of Safety
2x Pilfered Plans
2x Doom Blades
1x Detention Sphere
2x Azorius Charm
2x Dmir Charm
1x Inaction Injunction
1x Syncopate
2x Dissolve
2x Sphinx's Revelation
1x Blind Obedience
1x Warped Physique
1x Supreme Verdict
2x Far and Away
1x Hold the Gates
1x Negate
I live 15-20 minutes from them now.
Haven't yet taken advantage.blindrocket
Member
I've never heard of Potomac but just looked them up. Seems like a good deal on KMC sleeves! I've just been buying Ultra Pro Pro-Mattes (and liking them) but I wouldn't mind "upgrading" to KMC brand.
Woah, didn't peg you as a Magic fan, Wynnebeck (then again, I don't get to this thread as much as I'd like)
Anyways, is Magic 2014 pretty shitty? My friends have been saying that 2014 has actually regressed since last year's edition. Heard some bad things about the Sealed Deck mode too.
No idea on Duels 2014 but the 2014 card set was one of the worst-balanced formats in years.
Yikes, I think I heard that opinion roll my way recently too. I think Steam has a demo, so I'll try it.
The Duels 2014 sealed mode kind of sucks. But the constructed decks are alright. I really like some of the expansion ones. That said, I haven't played nearly as much of the online as I played in the 2013 version. But I mostly peg that on playing way more constructed at FNMs and whatnot than any sort of defect with the game.
lol Yeah, I just started playing last year and it took off from there. I love it. I'm hoping to get this Esper deck down-pat before taking it competitive outside of FNM.
blindrocket
Member
I believe it is on sale for all formats.
I'm jealous you got to experience Tempest like this in 2013. (Go MODO?) It will always be the quintessential Magic block to me, despite how alien it has become over time and the oaths sworn against it by R&D. (Can't blame Tempest for Mirrodin, sorry y'all.)
I would say it's different and more exciting at the cost of being less cerebral, though running possibilities through your head is certainly still a mental exercise.
I got it on the Steam sale, for a low cost I'm not unsatisfied (I will probably never try multiplayer), but I do have 2 complaints. It's full of in-game advertising and other--for lack of a better term--Wizzos bullshit. (I got offered a free foil card with a redemption code and was enthused... until I found out I had to take my ass to an actual brick and mortar store to redeem it, lolwat.)
The other issue is that despite being a much more mediocre player than I once was, I can think deeper about the game than the actual rules engine and artificial intelligence.
As an example, there's a monored control deck you play against in the campaign mode that uses Earthquakes and land destruction to beat you and usually has an empty board. I was playing the Innistrad block-centric White Weenie deck against it and had the bright idea to cast a Fiend Hunter to stash one of my Thraben Valiants so that I'd have something a little beefier than a 1/1 spirit token to swing with after a board wipe but when I cast it the game didn't even bother to ask me if I'd like to exile one of my own creatures, so it was just wasted mana. -_-
I do appreciate the opportunity to play with cards I would otherwise never want to, though. In sealed deck mode I built something around Tormented Souls and dumb buffing auras that I call RandyBuehler.dec.
Duels doesn't really work like that; it's not that each year's version is based around that year's core set. They make decks out of pretty much whatever they want.
If anything, DotP2k14 was meant to promote Modern Masters for whatever weird reasons. Tons of cards from it in the decks. And there's a random-ass Kamigawa-only deck (which is actually not the worst deck in the game).
I think it's the worst DotP but that's not to say that it's terrible. It has a few sweet decks, like the green ramp eldrazi deck and the dlc reanimator deck. That guy Dack has a somewhat weird and fun R/U deck too.
Sealed mode sucks, the AI is a topdecking cheating motherfucker, but it's still not a waste of $5 or whatever if you just want to try out some decks you don't have access to and play with archetypes that aren't valid at FNMs anymore.
I don't play multiplayer in it, because I don't see how any deck can really stand a chance against the two decks I mentioned above, especially the reanimator deck. I don't know what any player's supposed to do against a turn 1 Putrid Imp, sac Rune-Scarred Demon, turn 2 Excavate or Reanimate. Game over.
I disagree, I think Mono Blue and the White Weenie decks are the two best decks in the game, Mono Blue being slightly better overall, but White Weenie beating Mono Blue. I especially have a lot of experience playing against the Reanimator deck with Mono Blue. Many times when I played multiplayer, I would win the first game against my opponent, and then they would usually switch to Reanimator in an effort to show me up. Unsummon, Counterspell, Claustrophobia, or odd Force of Will usually got it done. Phantasmal Image will at least give you parity.
As for the quality of DotP:2014 itself, it was definitely a step down from 2013 in terms of how fun the decks were, but once all the promo cards came out for the two decks I played, I enjoyed it enough to play it and get a high ranking in 1v1. I mean Force of Will in that vacuum is just broken and great.