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["God's Beard!"]

Phenax will go well in my casual multiplayer mill deck. Just tap a consuming abberation for a 20+ mill. Don't think I'll use it any for standard.

God I wish it cost one less.

 

[GamerKingFaiz]

I'm thinking about getting some KMC Hyper Mat sleeves for my first non-budget deck.

Will 75 KMC Hyper Mat sleeved cards fit in a normal Ultra Pro Deck Box?

How about if they're double sleeved?

Also what are you guys' opinion on these sleeves vs. just the regular old Ultra Pro sleeves.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

More Limited fodder, but it's a pretty cool effect.

 

[y2dvd]

Phenax will go well in my casual multiplayer mill deck. Just tap a consuming abberation for a 20+ mill. Don't think I'll use it any for standard.

I will. It's about time I made a fun FNM deck and I've been wanting to make a mill deck anyways lol.

 

[Kacar]

I will. It's about time I made a fun FNM deck and I've been wanting to make a mill deck anyways lol.

Yea I have all the pieces for a mill deck. But I just didn't enjoy it much when I played it.


Also Phenax is the only God under 5 power which makes him not exiled by selesnya charm, which is relevent to some decks. But with the new enchantment shuffled into deck card it probably doesn't matter much.

 

[CorruptShadow]

I'm thinking about getting some KMC Hyper Mat sleeves for my first non-budget deck.

Will 75 KMC Hyper Mat sleeved cards fit in a normal Ultra Pro Deck Box?

How about if they're double sleeved?

Also what are you guys' opinion on these sleeves vs. just the regular old Ultra Pro sleeves.

KMC Hyper-mats are currently my favorite sleeves, I highly recommend them. They have a far better construction than ultra-pro sleeves. Ultra-pro's tend to split on me its likely the way I shuffle, but, talking with people at my LGS, ultra pros split on about half the people there. Most players get them initially because of the price but transition over to dragon shields, or some kind of KMC after a while.

Card in KMC Perfect Fit in KMC Hyper Mat:

KMC Hyper Mat, are a millimeter or two shorter than normal sleeves this allows the card to sit more flush in the sleeve and fits perfectly with a double sleeve:

If you single sleeve you should be able to get a deck plus sideboard in a standard ultra pro deck box, (fit will be tight with full sideboard) if you double sleeve they will not fit:

Double sleeving with sideboard requires a commander sized deck box, I recommend a ultra pro mana flip box: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004I6617I/?tag=neogaf0e-20

If you don't like those you can just use a normal ultra pro commander sized deck box.

 

[f0rk]

Why do Wizards hate Dimir so much

 

[kirblar]

Why do Wizards hate Dimir so much

Because they refuse to let the mill cards be constructed-quality.

 

[The Technomancer]

Because they refuse to let the mill cards be constructed-quality.

Honestly how would you make mill cards constructed quality without also causing problems? Mill is pretty non-interactive, their current solution seems to be trying to put the effect on creatures so the opponent has some way to react other then counterspells or graveyard recursion, but what does constructed quality mean? Being able to mill 30 cards a turn on like turn 4?

 

[kirblar]

Honestly how would you make mill cards constructed quality without also causing problems? Mill is pretty non-interactive, their current solution seems to be trying to put the effect on creatures so the opponent has some way to react other then counterspells or graveyard recursion, but what does constructed quality mean? Being able to mill 30 cards a turn on like turn 4?

It means not being a joke deck if you show up to SCG with it. (Sorry GB!) It doesn't mean the strategy has to be top-tier, but making the cards playable outside of casual constructed would solve a major problem with them taking up so many U/B Rare/Mythic spots.

 

[OnPoint]

Because they refuse to let the mill cards be constructed-quality.

True. But if that's the case then they should figure out another, more applicable UB mechanic to offer.

 

[kirblar]

True. But if that's the case then they should figure out another, more applicable UB mechanic to offer.

Unblockabili...yeah, that's not good either.

 

[f0rk]

Some sort of mechanic that lets you use your opponents graveyard more or something

 

[aidan]

Some sort of mechanic that lets you use your opponents graveyard more or something

Deathrite Shaman?

 

[OnPoint]

Deathrite Shaman?

Ban Deathrite. Create a UB version that doesn't tap for mana to replace it. I could see them doing that. Without the ban part.

 

[Firemind]

Lim-Dûl's Vault
Recoil
Undermine
Cavern Harpy
Agony Warp
Dimir Cutpurse
Dralnu, Lich Lord

U/B God could have been rad if they wanted to.

 

[The Technomancer]

What's the current problem mill decks face competitively? I was under the impression that they were too slow and that its a crap shoot if you're actually helping your opponent.

 

[OnPoint]

What's the current problem mill decks face competitively? I was under the impression that they were too slow and that its a crap shoot if you're actually helping your opponent.

Both this, and Elixir of Immortality make it tough to run.

 

[Firemind]

Both this, and Elixir of Immortality make it tough to run.

That and Eldrazis, as many cubers trying to draft storm can attest to.

 

[OnPoint]

That and Eldrazis, as many cubers trying to draft storm can attest to.

I was talking specifically Standard. In other formats, yeah, you're def right. Mill is a strategy best left dead.

 

["God's Beard!"]

It means not being a joke deck if you show up to SCG with it. (Sorry GB!) It doesn't mean the strategy has to be top-tier, but making the cards playable outside of casual constructed would solve a major problem with them taking up so many U/B Rare/Mythic spots.

What's the current problem mill decks face competitively? I was under the impression that they were too slow and that its a crap shoot if you're actually helping your opponent.

Too slow, too hard to curve out, almost all the mill cards are bad or contradict each other.

The mill cards are so bad that you have to shell them around another archetype like esper control which makes things like phenax counter-intuitive.

If you play UB mill you have shit matchups without good boardsweeps(aetherize...), but if you play esper mill it's just a shittier esper control.

Phenax, aberration and Memory Adept all being at the same cmc sucks balls for deck creation. I guess you can just play adepts and mind grind on a control shell but I doubt it'll get you too far.

 

[GamerKingFaiz]

KMC Hyper-mats are currently my favorite sleeves, I highly recommend them. They have a far better construction than ultra-pro sleeves. Ultra-pro's tend to split on me its likely the way I shuffle, but, talking with people at my LGS, ultra pros split on about half the people there. Most players get them initially because of the price but transition over to dragon shields, or some kind of KMC after a while.

Card in KMC Perfect Fit in KMC Hyper Mat:

KMC Hyper Mat, are a millimeter or two shorter than normal sleeves this allows the card to sit more flush in the sleeve and fits perfectly with a double sleeve:

If you single sleeve you should be able to get a deck plus sideboard in a standard ultra pro deck box, (fit will be tight with full sideboard) if you double sleeve they will not fit:

Double sleeving with sideboard requires a commander sized deck box, I recommend a ultra pro mana flip box: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004I6617I/?tag=neogaf0e-20

If you don't like those you can just use a normal ultra pro commander sized deck box.

Sweet! Thanks for the comprehensive info/pics. I'll probably end up getting a commander deck box, because I put my deck boxes in the box that the deck builder's toolkit came in, and I don't think the flip case would fit in there.

 

["God's Beard!"]

I just rubber band all my decks and slide them in my Rise of the Eldrazi fatpack box.

 

[Karakand]

Yeah MaRo's wrong on that one, lol. Design doesn't, but Development will definitely throw things in there. (Uncounterable cycle in RTR, for instance.)

Even if eternal isn't the prime focus due to standard and limited being much more popular, it still has to be a consideration.

Y'all coulda just owned me with some Google-fu. http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/55767375960/i-know-wotc-doesnt-test-for-eternal-formats-but-you

We're getting more octopuses?!?!?!?

get hype

 

[CorruptShadow]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";97964879]I just rubber band all my decks and slide them in my Rise of the Eldrazi fatpack box.[/QUOTE]

I have a friend that does this, he has expensive cards in his decks too, fetches, duals. His cards are trashed he just riffles them un-sleeved and doesn't care. To each there own, (they are your cards after all) but I wouldn't trade for cards in that condition hence why I sleeve mine.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

I mean, they are your cards, but to refuse to recognize that they have value is foolish.

At some point I should actually realize some value from all of the cards I've been drafting at FNM. I don't have anything terribly exciting (Thassa and Polukranos being the only cards worth anything), but just leaving them sitting in sleeves in a pile on my shelf isn't doing any good...

It means not being a joke deck if you show up to SCG with it. (Sorry GB!) It doesn't mean the strategy has to be top-tier, but making the cards playable outside of casual constructed would solve a major problem with them taking up so many U/B Rare/Mythic spots.

If there were SCG-level Modern events, you could easily bring UB Mill and not be completely embarrassed. I actually kinda like the spot that UB Mill takes up in the Modern metagame (wrecking combo decks and losing to just about everything else).

 

["God's Beard!"]

Speaking of milling, I got someone with Liliana's emblem into Mind Grind for 23 with my esper superfriends mod today :-3

Deck list:

(2) Creatures:

2x Pack Rat

(28) Spells:

4x Thoughtseize
4x Detention Sphere
4x Supreme Verdict
2x Pilfered Plans
3x Psychic Strike
1x Mind Grind
1x Cyclonic Rift
2x Sphinx's Revelation
2x Azorius Charm
1x Dimir Charm
1x Crypt Incursion
1x Elixir of Immortality
2x Devour Flesh

(6) Planeswalkers:

2x Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
2x Jace, Memory Adept
1x Liliana of the Dark Realms
1x Elspeth, Sun's Champion

(24) Land:

2x Mutavault
2x Swamp
4x Temple of Silence
4x Temple of Deceit
4x Hallowed Fountain
4x Watery Grave
4x Godless Shrine

(15) Sideboard:

2x Notion Thief
3x Gainsay
2x Negate
2x Doom Blade
2x Dark Betrayal
3x Lifebane Zombie
1x Pithing Needle

I have a friend that does this, he has expensive cards in his decks too, fetches, duals. His cards are trashed he just riffles them un-sleeved and doesn't care. To each there own, (they are your cards after all) but I wouldn't trade for cards in that condition hence why I sleeve mine.

Oh they definitely have sleeves, though.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

I can only imagine how happy you would be if you could play a Modern UB mill deck.

 

["God's Beard!"]

I can only imagine how happy you would be if you could play a Modern UB mill deck.

Well milling is my second favorite after Reanimator so I'm already set for modern :3

I was building a modern reanimator until I sold the pieces for standard because nobody plays modern. I have a super budget bant conscription for casual games, though. My whole sideboard is a pithing needle and three bant charms lol.

My dream deck is legacy reanimator but goddamn that's expensive. Also, when did Griselbrand double in price???

 

[divisionbyzorro]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";97999175]Well milling is my second favorite after Reanimator so I'm already set for modern :3

I was building a modern reanimator until I sold the pieces for standard because nobody plays modern.

My dream deck is legacy reanimator but goddamn that's expensive. Also, when did Griselbrand double in price???[/QUOTE]

I'd guess the relatively successful run by Dzyl with his Fist of Suns deck in the latest Modern GP had something to do with it.

My dream deck? Legacy ANT. I'm holding out hope that Vintage Masters this summer will put some more of the staples into the pool on MTGO to where I could build it. I can swallow the price of a lot of the pieces, but I'm not buying 4 LEDs at $180 apiece in a digital environment.

 

[blindrocket]

Speaking of Fist, I obtained a Fist of Suns for $2 but I'm trading it off for about ten bucks worth of cards.
The store only had a single copy, so I thought I don't want to build the deck it corresponds with.

 

[OnPoint]

Speaking of Fist, I obtained a Fist of Suns for $2 but I'm trading it off for about ten bucks worth of cards.
The store only had a single copy, so I thought I don't want to build the deck it corresponds with.

Nice catch. I picked up a pair of foil Inkmoth Nexus for $11 a piece today, I'm hoping to pop those off in a few months into something I care about.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

More Limited fodder

More unexciting decisions around Tribute:

(hint - you always pay if you don't know what's in their hand)

More crap

And a hint at a future spoiler...this token:

 

[ultron87]

That token is easily the most interesting thing.

The Starcity video preview card, Hunters Prowess, is gonna be pretty good in Limited. Rare 4G Sorcery to give a creature +3/+3 Trample and "whenever this deals combat damage to a player draw that many cards."

 

[lawlohwhat]

Minotaurs!

 

[divisionbyzorro]

That token is easily the most interesting thing.

The Starcity video preview card, Hunters Prowess, is gonna be pretty good in Limited. Rare 4G Sorcery to give a creature +3/+3 Trample and "whenever this deals combat damage to a player draw that many cards."

Image:

 

[esterk]

Dammit now I really want minotaur tribal to be a thing. It's just so much more AWESOME than humans or zombies or whatever the kids play these days.

 

[Hero]

This set is fucking terrible so far. Have not been so unexcited for a set since I came back to the game with Shards of Alara.

 

[Karakand]

UNHOLY STRENGTH

WE ON NOW Y'ALL

Spoiler

Fuck Bestow, most wasted opportunity I ever saw.

 

[esterk]

More Limited fodder

Bestow is just...sigh. I understand not wanting to get 2-for-1'd, but seriously, most of this is just garbage.

 

[y2dvd]

Nyxborn Triton art looks cool.
If Meletis Astronomer didn't have Heroic, it could've been so much better. I would've actually considered making some enchantment deck.

 

[OnPoint]

Yeah, Bestow is a super big waste. And Tribute never allows for an interesting choice. Dumb. That Gold token is really interesting, but I have a feeling it's going to be part of a do-nothing. Just a hunch.

Fun moment for me tonight, was when I realized I actually only have three Underground Seas instead of four. Could have swore I had four. I know, #firstworldproblems, but it's another $200 I'll now have to spend. Lame fucking lame.

 

[Grakl]

I really like the art style for this set.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Simmer down on the Bestow hate. These are all just Limited value creatures, although it was a huge mistake to put the vanilla Bestow creatures in BotG and the keyword Bestow creatures in the previous set. You should build up, not down.

 

[ThLunarian]

Simmer down on the Bestow hate. These are all just Limited value creatures, although I it was a huge mistake to put the vanilla Bestow creatures in BotG and the keyword Bestow creatures in the previous set. You should build up, not down.

At first glance, this whole set seems like a long series of missteps. So weird, considering how good Theros was.

 

[kirblar]

Simmer down on the Bestow hate. These are all just Limited value creatures, although I it was a huge mistake to put the vanilla Bestow creatures in BotG and the keyword Bestow creatures in the previous set. You should build up, not down.

Tom LaPille sets: where bizarre minutae is supposed to be noticeable to players (No humans in green at common in DKA, Bestow creatures having uneven stats in BNG.)

 

[The Adder]

Why do these have the same bestow cost?

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Why do these have the same bestow cost?

Blue has gotten the some of the best efficiency for Bestow from the beginning (see the Bestow costs on the Emissaries and the common Bestows in Theros, for example). Black has been the worst. Green has been somewhere in the middle. It has to do with how they're trying to tweak the way the Limited format plays.

 

[The Adder]

Blue has gotten the some of the best efficiency for Bestow from the beginning (see the Bestow costs on the Emissaries and the common Bestows in Theros, for example). Black has been the worst. Green has been somewhere in the middle. It has to do with how they're trying to tweak the way the Limited format plays.

Yeah, but if you dropped the black one to 3B it would still be less efficient than the other two, but at least it would be useable

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Yeah, but if you dropped the black one to 3B it would still be less efficient than the other two, but at least it would be useable

On the flip side, it's much more viable to be cast as a creature than its green brother.

But you're right that it's not good - it will be in the dregs of your draft pile and you'll happily leave it to the side in most black decks.

Tom LaPille sets: where bizarre minutae is supposed to be noticeable to players (No humans in green at common in DKA, Bestow creatures having uneven stats in BNG.)

Heh. Yeah; I mean, I noticed that, but never even considered that it was supposed to be meaningful. Theros Bestow cards got keywords and square stats. Born of the Gods Bestow cards don't get keywords and have uneven stats. The trouble is that the keywords are so much more interesting.

Then again, the advantage to putting them second is that you'll open fewer of them during the draft, which makes the overall draft experience more interesting I suppose.