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[Angry Grimace]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";177959714]I mean, if you're a dedicated landfall deck topping out with Eldrazi, maybe? Otherwise I'd rather just play mage-ring network or something.[/QUOTE]

Its a riff on Temple of the False God.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Temple of the False God is itself a riff on City of Traitors/Ancient Tomb.

It turns out that if you give Temple of the False God the ability to tap for colorless naturally, it becomes absurdly good. That's why you have to make the {2} ability more restrictive.

It's an interesting design that's doomed to end up only in colorless EDH decks (who will be quite happy to have it, actually).

 

[Firemind]

But temple of the false god was never a constructed staple if I remember correctly?

 

[Angry Grimace]

Temple of the False God is itself a riff on City of Traitors/Ancient Tomb.

It turns out that if you give Temple of the False God the ability to tap for colorless naturally, it becomes absurdly good. That's why you have to make the {2} ability more restrictive.

It's an interesting design that's doomed to end up only in colorless EDH decks (who will be quite happy to have it, actually).

I wonder how broken this would be at the same five land restriction - Temple of the False God itself can't tap for mana at all outside of hitting the land threshold.

Thinking about it 5 seems like too few and 7 seems like too many. They should have gone with six.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

I don't think they wanted it to be good for anyone other than kitchen table players who are excited about Broodmate Eldrazi. It's not supposed to be a tournament staple; it's supposed to be a card to stick in your decks so you can cast 10 drops three turns earlier.

 

[y2dvd]

Temple of the Forsaken Gods
Land - Rare
T: Add 1 to your mana pool.
T: Add 2 to your mana pool. Use this mana only to cast colorless spells and only if you control seven or more land.

So restrictive.

 

[bigkrev]

But temple of the false god was never a constructed staple if I remember correctly?

Slide Decks and U/W control decks ran it.
Worlds 2004 Top 8 U/W Control
Worlds 2003 R/W Slide

This was an era before Opens, Standard Pro Tours, and regular Standard GPs (there were 3 in the 2003-04 season, and only 1 in the 2002-2003 season), which makes finding actual preforming decklists kind of hard!

 

[duxstar]

That red goblin gives me nightmares already, interesting that it's a rare and not a mythic as that seems like a complex card. Other than that a little eh on spoilers today, not big into a card that makes you sacrifice a creature on upkeep even if it is a high reward build around.

Don't see that land being played much unless standard slows down a ton.

 

[Firemind]

I don't think they wanted it to be good for anyone other than kitchen table players who are excited about Broodmate Eldrazi. It's not supposed to be a tournament staple; it's supposed to be a card to stick in your decks so you can cast 10 drops three turns earlier.

If that were the case, Eldrazi Temple would have been more exciting than this. I even played Eldrazi Temple in Standard once! And failed. Stupid cawblade.

 

[Angry Grimace]

That red goblin gives me nightmares already, interesting that it's a rare and not a mythic as that seems like a complex card. Other than that a little eh on spoilers today, not big into a card that makes you sacrifice a creature on upkeep even if it is a high reward build around.

Don't see that land being played much unless standard slows down a ton.

Kicked Rite of Replication

If that were the case, Eldrazi Temple would have been more exciting than this. I even played Eldrazi Temple in Standard once! And failed. Stupid cawblade.

Eldrazi Temple and Eye of Ugin strike me as kind of OP in an environment where lots of the Eldrazi don't cost 8+ mana. Making a new riff on it was probably the right idea, I just think its a bit too restrictive. At 7 lands I almost feel like you could get away without the colorless restriction.

 

[Hero]

Yeah I'm sure the reasons why we didn't see an Eye of Ugin reprint was because one I doubt they wanted to waste a mythic slot and two since there are smaller Eldrazi that actually produce better mana generating tokens it might have been too good.

So the interesting thing is why they went with a new design since they have already made Eldrazi Temple. The only thing I can think of is that Eldrazi Temple's ability only works on Eldrazi cards and this one only cares that it's colorless. This works on stuff from last block like morph and Ugin, will the block after BFZ have some decent colorless component? Probably not but who knows.

 

[kirblar]

Temple of the False God is OP as fuck and does very bad things to warp deck construction.

source: I was playing block/standard at the time.

Eldrazi Temple turns on T1, they clearly didn't want that with the smaller colorless Eldrazi running around.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

If that were the case, Eldrazi Temple would have been more exciting than this. I even played Eldrazi Temple in Standard once! And failed. Stupid cawblade.

The problem is (as Grimace points out) Eldrazi don't start at 8CC anymore. Well, I guess the colored Eldrazi Drones were cheaper, but unplayable.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Yeah I'm sure the reasons why we didn't see an Eye of Ugin reprint was because one I doubt they wanted to waste a mythic slot and two since there are smaller Eldrazi that actually produce better mana generating tokens it might have been too good.

So the interesting thing is why they went with a new design since they have already made Eldrazi Temple. The only thing I can think of is that Eldrazi Temple's ability only works on Eldrazi cards and this one only cares that it's colorless. This works on stuff from last block like morph and Ugin, will the block after BFZ have some decent colorless component? Probably not but who knows.

Eldrazi Temple is probably even more OP than Eye of Ugin in an environment with lots of small and medium sized Eldrazi. In an Eldrazi tribal deck its 2/3 of a Mishra's Workshop.

 

[The Technomancer]

So the interesting thing is why they went with a new design since they have already made Eldrazi Temple. The only thing I can think of is that Eldrazi Temple's ability only works on Eldrazi cards and this one only cares that it's colorless. This works on stuff from last block like morph and Ugin, will the block after BFZ have some decent colorless component? Probably not but who knows.

Next block speculation goes something like this

-The next block is probably Kaladesh because it got so much development and it makes sense for a new plane after a return-to block

-But wait, if Chandra is in BFZ we're probably not going to Kaladesh because they wouldn't do three new Chandra cards in a row

-But wait, Chandra isn't in BFZ at all, making it potentially unlikely that she's in Oath either, so maybe it is Kaladesh

Kaladesh looks artifact themed, so yeah it would probably make sense there

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Maro is going to keep putting off Kaladesh until he figures out how to do Riggers and Contraptions.

 

[Firemind]

The problem is (as Grimace points out) Eldrazi don't start at 8CC anymore. Well, I guess the colored Eldrazi Drones were cheaper, but unplayable.

I was about to say. Most of the smaller eldrazi don't have colourless mana in their costs. Sure some midrange eldrazis will be able to abuse this but it's not like it's affinity or something. Getting kind of tired of R&D playing it safe.

Edit: Well I guess Delve wasn't. I'll retract my statement.

 

[The Technomancer]

Maro is going to keep putting off Kaladesh until he figures out how to do Riggers and Contraptions.

Its that or wherever Liliana's headed next, I guess.

Actually, when you put it like that yeah Kaladesh is probably Spring 2017

 

[Hero]

Just went through the list of Eldrazi and the old Eldrazi Temple would definitely be completely busted if it were reprinted.

 

[Yeef]

That red goblin gives me nightmares already, interesting that it's a rare and not a mythic as that seems like a complex card. Other than that a little eh on spoilers today, not big into a card that makes you sacrifice a creature on upkeep even if it is a high reward build around.

It's less complex than Precursor Golem.

 

[Jhriad]

3) If it's even possible, what's the cheapest way to build a mildly competitive collection for Standard?

Buying singles from a site like TCGPlayer is generally the cheapest option. Drafting at your LGS is also a good way of slowly building up a card base while still being able to play Magic. It's not as cost effective on a card for card basis as just buying singles, if constructed is your primary interest, but it does allow you to play Magic and get some cards without a large initial investment. Trading at your local game store is also a good way to defray costs since cards that you don't have any interest in using have little value to you but might be exactly what someone else is looking for.

If you're looking for some cheap introductory decks then I'd recommend the Magic Origins Clash Pack named 'Armed and Dangerous' ($24.99 on Amazon currently) over most other Clash Packs/Duel Decks. It has four cards that see a lot of use and will maintain some value even after they eventually rotate because they see play in other formats like Modern & Commander. Dromoka's Command, Siege Rhino, Windswept Heath, and Collected Company. You could potentially end up with a better value proposition buying two Intro Packs because they each include two booster packs whereas the Clash Pack is only the preconstructed decks but you would be relying entirely on the included booster packs as the cards that are part of the Intro Pack precon decks aren't of any real monetary value.

 

[A Serious Man]

WotC better have their fingers crossed that the format slows enough for Eldrazi to actually be playable.

 

[Angry Grimace]

WotC better have their fingers crossed that the format slows enough for Eldrazi to actually be playable.

In Standard at the least, I'm really interested in any of the Processors, Ulamog and the little dudes (like the Forerunner).

I was about to say. Most of the smaller eldrazi don't have colourless mana in their costs. Sure some midrange eldrazis will be able to abuse this but it's not like it's affinity or something. Getting kind of tired of R&D playing it safe.

Edit: Well I guess Delve wasn't. I'll retract my statement.

Blight Herder is a 4/5 for 5 colorless that comes into play with 3 1/1s with "sac: 1" I can kind of see why Eldrazi temple sounds like a bad idea if there are more cards like that.

 

[Jhriad]

-But wait, Chandra isn't in BFZ at all, making it potentially unlikely that she's in Oath either, so maybe it is Kaladesh

We've already seen art showing Chandra as one of the four walkers part of the actual Oath. Unless that was a Chandra lookalike (Jaya). My money is on the next block being Liliana & Raven Man.

 

[SigmasonicX]

It's worth noting that Undergrowth Champion was officially spoiled today, so I guess that confirms that Nixilis and Kiora will also be re-revealed later.

My Favorite Flavor - Smothering Abomination
At first I was disappointed by this Eldrazi just being a demon, but then I noticed that the card drawing part was separate from the upkeep cost and realized that it triggers whenever you sacrifice a Scion for mana, and I like it more now. I notice that some of you guys haven't picked up on this, due to the mentions of only using Scions for manaless sacrifices.

Serious Fun - Zada, Hedron Grinder
Now this is an interesting card. I actually hadn't really thought of how useful Defiant Strike is with this until I saw you guys talk about it. I do wonder if we'll actually see Zada in the story, with the focus on just the main planeswalkers.

Temple of the Forsaken Gods
I was actually wondering if we'd get a reprint of Temple of the False God after I saw that art during PAX. This is an interesting riff on that, though I'm not sure both restrictions were needed.

EDIT: Concerning block predictions, I expect that the next one will focus on Liliana, due to the focus on her in Origins and her absence from this block. The block after that will be Kaladesh, which will still be in Standard at the same time as this block (for six months) and will thus benefit from the colorless-helper cards.

 

[Angry Grimace]

It's worth noting that Undergrowth Champion was officially spoiled today, so I guess that confirms that Nixilis and Kiora will also be re-revealed later.

My Favorite Flavor - Smothering Abomination
At first I was disappointed by this Eldrazi just being a demon, but then I noticed that the card drawing part was separate from the upkeep cost and realized that it triggers whenever you sacrifice a Scion for mana, and I like it more now. I notice that some of you guys haven't picked up on this, due to the mentions of only using Scions for manaless sacrifices.

Serious Fun - Zada, Hedron Grinder
Now this is an interesting card. I actually hadn't really thought of how useful Defiant Strike is with this until I saw you guys talk about. I do wonder if we'll actually see Zada in the story, with the focus on just the main planeswalkers.

Temple of the Forsaken Gods
I was actually wondering if we'd get a reprint of Temple of the False God after I saw that art during PAX. This is an interesting riff on that, though I'm not sure both restrictions were needed.

Maro has been answering questions on Kiora anyways, probably because the leak is their own fault.

And yeah, it does work if you have sac outlets (which is what GB was talking about), or Nantuko Husk, or Evolutionary Leap. Leap is probably the one that would make that most punishing.

 

[Infinite Stars]

That new Goblin is just Amazing. Kind of sad we're losing the best cheap White token gen spell because holy Frick he's just screaming for a Boros token deck to me. I'm picking up a playset as soon as I can. Kind of makes me wish we have stronger Enemy fixing because screw painlands. I suppose I could run Naya Aggro, but that means new Fetches I need to pick up.

I guess I'll just wait till the full spoilers are out, but this has me super interested.

 

[Angry Grimace]

That new Goblin is just Amazing. Kind of sad we're losing the best cheap White token gen spell because holy Frick he's just screaming for a Boros token deck to me. I'm picking up a playset as soon as I can. Kind of makes me wish we have stronger Enemy fixing because screw painlands. I suppose I could run Naya Aggro, but that means new Fetches I need to pick up.

I guess I'll just wait till the full spoilers are out, but this has me super interested.

Secure the Wastes, still legal!

But Virulent Plague, also legal.

 

[ultron87]

Oh no. That legendary goblin probably smashes all hopes of a new Tuktuk card.

 

[Firemind]

Blight Herder is a 4/5 for 5 colorless that comes into play with 3 1/1s with "sac: 1" I can kind of see why Eldrazi temple sounds like a bad idea if there are more cards like that.

People have been playing 4/5s for two mana ever since Future Sight came out. This Standard people are playing 4/5s for four mana that lightning helixes your opponent. But I understand the reasoning.

 

["God's Beard!"]

People have been playing 4/5s for two mana ever since Future Sight came out. This Standard people are playing 4/5s for four mana that lightning helixes your opponent. But I understand the reasoning.

Don't forget 4/5s for one mana that draw cards.

 

[Infinite Stars]

Secure the Wastes, still legal!

But Virulent Plague, also legal.

Step 1: Cast Gideon and get Emblem 2x
Step 2: Cast Secure the Wastes
Step 3: Cast Dude
Step 4: Enter Combat
Step 5: Cast Titan's Strength/Defiant Strike/Temur Battlerage/touch of Moonglove(Any number of them)
Step 6: Watch the world burn.

I know it's magical Christmas land but it's going to be my stupid hope to pull off.

What does Mardu's Manabase even look like going into this? 4x Clan lands, 4x Bloodstained Mire, 4x Tango/BB/Bofa, 4x each basic?

 

[Angry Grimace]

Step 1: Cast Gideon and get Emblem 2x
Step 2: Cast Secure the Wastes
Step 3: Cast Dude
Step 4: Enter Combat
Step 5: Cast Titan's Strength/Defiant Strike/Temur Battlerage/touch of Moonglove(Any number of them)
Step 6: Watch the world burn.

I know it's magical Christmas land but it's going to be my stupid hope to pull off.

I could see it being legit if it wasn't entirely reliant on Legendary Goblin Copy Man.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Speaking of Zada and white

Unison Strike - 1W
Instant
Up to two target creatures each get +1/+2 until end of turn. You gain 2 life.

Defiant Strike is still probably a better option, but this exists.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I'd really like to believe there are better combat tricks I could use in BFZ limited than that with Zada, but I guess you make due with what you got.

 

[A Serious Man]

Step 1: Cast Gideon and get Emblem 2x
Step 2: Cast Secure the Wastes
Step 3: Cast Dude
Step 4: Enter Combat
Step 5: Cast Titan's Strength/Defiant Strike/Temur Battlerage/touch of Moonglove(Any number of them)
Step 6: Watch the world burn.

I know it's magical Christmas land but it's going to be my stupid hope to pull off.

What does Mardu's Manabase even look like going into this? 4x Clan lands, 4x Bloodstained Mire, 4x Tango/BB/Bofa, 4x each basic?

Or get 4 tokens into play and then

Turn 2: Dragon Fodder
Turn 3: Hordeling Outburst
Turn 4: Zada
Turn 5: Win

I bet Zada could be pretty sweet in some Jeskai builds.

 

[duxstar]

Btw guys, the magic number in the next set has moved from 4 to 5; I don't know if wizards is trying to be subtle about it but last set the number was 4.

Whisperwood Elemental, Stormbreath Dragon, Thunderbreak Regent, Anafenza, Savage Knuckblade, Languish; Last set the magic number was 4 toughness, and the cards there were the best were cards that could block/attack through 4 power/toughness creatures

Now look at Siege rhino, what makes him so great ? He can block and swing through a 4/4

Now look at alot of the rares that have been spoiled.

5/5 Omnath
5/8 Oblivion Sower
5/3 Barrage Tyrant
4/5 Blight Herder
3/3 Brood Butcher that gives something -2/-2 when you sac a creature
4/5 Guardian of Tazeem
5/5 Oran Rief hydra
5/5 Drowner of Hope
5/5 Conduit Ruin
10/10 Desolation Twin

In one of Maro's drive to work's I recall him saying how for each standard environment they would change the number around to try to make it feel different. People keep saying siege rhino is one of the better cards in standard right now and abzan might not take too much of a hit, but if more decks start playing any of the newer cards Siege rhino could be slightly less of a problem. The new magic number seems to have been bumped up to 5/6.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Or get 4 tokens into play and then

Turn 2: Dragon Fodder
Turn 3: Hordeling Outburst
Turn 4: Zada
Turn 5: Win

I bet Zada could be pretty sweet in some Jeskai builds.

I really like the design of this card and could see it being really neat in an EDH deck of some kind. But outside of EDH, it just seems like any deck that would win off of this would lose to not sticking Zada to the battlefield.

 

[SigmasonicX]

To clarify what duxstar is talking about, the "magic number" is the toughness at which a creature becomes immune to low-cost red spells and most creatures. That is to say, the point at which a creature counts as being "big" for that set.

 

[Angry Grimace]

To clarify what duxstar is talking about, the "magic number" is the toughness at which a creature becomes immune to low-cost red spells and most creatures. That is to say, the point at which a creature counts as being "big" for that set.

Lightning Bolt reprint inc

 

[OnPoint]

Lightning Bolt reprint inc

Please?

 

[SigmasonicX]

Confirmed.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Please?

Maro put it at a 3 on his Storm Scale, so if it was happening any time soon, I can't imagine its any time but now, but I'm still skeptical as fuck about Lightning Bolt is coming back to Standard unless its the only burn spell in all of BFZ block.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Maro put it at a 3 on his Storm Scale, so if it was happening any time soon, I can't imagine its any time but now, but I'm still skeptical as fuck about Lightning Bolt is coming back to Standard unless its the only burn spell in all of BFZ block.

Lightning Bolt in Magic 2010 served two purposes:
1. To get people excited about a core set.
2. To shake up Standard.

(1) isn't necessary for BFZ, and (2) seems like an odd thing to do when Standard is already going to be shaken up by the two-set block model for a while.

 

[Firemind]

more like stoneforge mystic reprint inc

kek

 

[Angry Grimace]

more like stoneforge mystic reprint inc

kek

Tutoring up Sword of the Animist would be so OP

 

[ultron87]

Damn. Noah, calm down.

 

[Yeef]

I think they'll save lightning bolt for the return to Dominaria.

 

[Hero]

If they expect people to play Eldrazi because standard will be slower then there is no way Bolt is getting reprinted now.

 

[Ashodin]

Damn. Noah, calm down.

Sacred Foundry is back!? AW YISS