Support NeoGAF

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

While Dromoka's Command can do that against Complete Disregard, they need 2 mana up, so you should be able to catch a creature in the earlier turns. CR can catch so many other creatures also, including Mantis Rider, Soulfires, Jace, etc, while taking away some targets for Otujai Command. Esper needs to mainboard more of it over Foul- tongue imo and at least have some more sideboarded.

Decks should definitely not Completely Disregard it but I was just thinking of the GW matchup where it's not at its best

Spoiler

haha pun

Edit: repuned

Yeah, I really miss my tezzeret deck. Really loved playing that.

I have a kitchentable artifact deck, well all my decks are kitchentable, with both Tezzerets. The problem is that it's playing tinker so I rarely get to cast either. I'm contemplating taking them out, turn 1/2 Darksteel Colossus just isn't fun in our meta. Don't have Blightsteel

 

[aidan]

Shame that you got one with the damaged side, but still very pretty indeed.

Thanks! I'm still trying to decide if I should send it away for WotC for a replacement. There's quite a bit of wear on the right and top edges.

Also, my friend pulled both of these from one fat pack:

 

[traveler]

While Dromoka's Command can do that against Complete Disregard, they need 2 mana up, so you should be able to catch a creature in the earlier turns. CR can catch so many other creatures also, including Mantis Rider, Soulfires, Jace, etc, while taking away some targets for Otujai Command. Esper needs to mainboard more of it over Foul- tongue imo and at least have some more sideboarded.

I think the bigger problem for Esper is dealing with Evolutionary Leap out of the board and, when dealing with the "other" deck in the meta- Jeskai Black- beating Crackling Doom. I'd agree Complete Disregard is better than Foul-Tongue, but the deck will need more than that. Mainboard negate doesn't even seem that bad right now.

 

[OnPoint]

Where are you guys buying your fat packs.

Man... I'm coming there lol

 

[ultron87]

I should probably resist opening my box so I can draft it with friends instead. But if we draft one of my friends will inevitably get the Expedition that is obviously in there.

 

[traveler]

I should probably resist opening my box so I can draft it with friends instead. But if we draft one of my friends will inevitably get the Expedition that is obviously in there.

You can open 12 packs if you guys are just drafting for fun and aren't using the 12 as prizes.

 

[Socat]

Thanks! I'm still trying to decide if I should send it away for WotC for a replacement. There's quite a bit of wear on the right and top edges.

Also, my friend pulled both of these from one fat pack:

This is the strand that I pulled, first pack out of my fat pack.

 

[ultron87]

I got a print of Noah Bradley's rad Kaladesh Mountain to frame. I like it a lot.

You can open 12 packs if you guys are just drafting for fun and aren't using the 12 as prizes.

Hmm, maybe that will sate the desire.

 

[traveler]

Kaladesh has to be one of the next 2 or 3 blocks at this point, right? It looks like they've already got a complete style guide nailed down for the plane.

 

[WanderingWind]

I should probably resist opening my box so I can draft it with friends instead. But if we draft one of my friends will inevitably get the Expedition that is obviously in there.

I mean...you paid for the box,right? If they're keeping the cards, just make it a rule that you get any expeditions at the end of the night. Seems more than fair. They get a free draft and free cards? Psh. Least they can do is give you the 200 dollar card from your own box!

Also, they have to bring beer and Fritos.

 

[inthrall]

Kaladesh has to be one of the next 2 or 3 blocks at this point, right? It looks like they've already got a complete style guide nailed down for the plane.

I would put money on it being the next set

 

[OnPoint]

I would guess, and this is just my guess, we see in order, and with a few PW inclusions to boot:

- Fairy Tale World (Liliana/Jace)
- Kaladesh (Chandra/Gideon/Nissa)
- Newer Phyrexia (Karn/Koth)

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I would guess, and this is just my guess, we see in order, and with a few PW inclusions to boot:

- Fairy Tale World (Liliana/Jace/Garruk)
- Kaladesh (Chandra/Gideon)
- Newer Phyrexia (Koth/Venser/Dark Elspeth)

FTFY

 

[Angry Grimace]

I don't understand how literally anyone is surprised Gideon is expensive. He's the most obviously good card in a couple of years. Even when we saw Siege Rhino, the reaction was just "well that's a big butt, but can we cast it with three colors in its cost?" This guy is mythic, and does literally everything you could want a Planeswalker to do at 4 mana. He threatens 7 power on an empty board turn 5, can turtle up like crazy and his third ability is always usable, unlike 90% of Planeswalkers printed.

 

[WanderingWind]

I always get a giggle when the nuts and bolts guys within WotC talk about Venser being dead as if that's a real thing. Their entire franchise exists in a world where things routinely come back to life and which is populated by an infinite number of realities and timelines. Venser being "dead" in a universe where it is a legitimate course of action to say "a wizard did it" is just....adorable.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

They just killed him because he's the OG nuWalker with actually interesting blue abilities.

Oh how foolish of me. Of course Garruk would be there.

Elspeth though... I don't think we see her until we see Theros again, and I do think she ascends and takes over as the white god. It circumvents a generic resurrection plotline while keeping the PW ranks thinner, returns a beloved character without lessening her death, and puts a cool, world-specific twist on it. I also don't think she leaves the plane ever again.

I would also put Tezzeret in the Newer Phyrexia block too, but maybe that's too easy.

I'm just annoyed WoTC always gets rid of the actually great Walkers, instead of Jace. Elspeth usurping Heliod would be awesome too, with Heliod returning to being a walker.

 

[OnPoint]

FTFY

Oh how foolish of me. Of course Garruk would be there.

Elspeth though... I don't think we see her until we see Theros again, and I do think she ascends and takes over as the white god. It circumvents a generic resurrection plotline while keeping the PW ranks thinner, returns a beloved character without lessening her death for the Ajani storyline, and puts a cool, world-specific twist on it. I also don't think she leaves the plane ever again.

I would also put Tezzeret in the Newer Phyrexia block too, but maybe that's too easy.

I don't understand how literally anyone is surprised Gideon is expensive. He's the most obviously good card in a couple of years. Even when we saw Siege Rhino, the reaction was just "well that's a big butt, but can we cast it with three colors in its cost?" This guy is mythic, and does literally everything you could want a Planeswalker to do at 4 mana. He threatens 7 power on an empty board turn 5, can turtle up like crazy and his third ability is always usable, unlike 90% of Planeswalkers printed.

I like how Gideon, for all but one of his PW cards (the bad one, to boot), does not have a traditional ultimate ability. It's a pretty cool detail.

 

[Firemind]

Well, where's Urza then hm?

I mean only his head got detached. That doesn't mean anything.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Wasn't the whole point of the Gatecrash Gideon that he was looking for/researching/testing a weapon to defeat the Eldrazi? Hence the "fuck it, just exile every last damn thing on the plane" ultimate? I guess he realized that it just wasn't acceptable to wipe the plane just to defeat the Eldrazi (that's a very un-Gideon thing to do, to be honest).

 

[WanderingWind]

Well, where's Urza then hm?

I mean only his head got detached. That doesn't mean anything.

We talked about this. He's in a tube somewhere giving orders to the Pow...Lorwyn 5.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Wasn't the whole point of the Gatecrash Gideon that he was looking for/researching/testing a weapon to defeat the Eldrazi? Hence the "fuck it, just exile every last damn thing on the plane" ultimate? I guess he realized that it just wasn't acceptable to wipe the plane just to defeat the Eldrazi (that's a very un-Gideon thing to do, to be honest).

But pretty consistent with White. Gideon and Chandra had some nice interactions in their book.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Kaladesh has to be one of the next 2 or 3 blocks at this point, right? It looks like they've already got a complete style guide nailed down for the plane.

As I mentioned earlier, that's pretty much a sure thing, but they'll likely do a block focusing on Liliana next. She's the one Origins planeswalker conspicuously absent from BfZ and Oath and the Uncharted Realms stories before the BfZ story proper started went out of their way to show what Liliana was up to. She'll appear sooner than later, and I don't think they'd have her in Kaladesh.

My guesses are:
"Tears"/"Fears" - Fairy Tale world with Liliana and Jace if he doesn't get a card in Oath, maybe also Garruk
"Lock"/"Stock" - Kaladesh with Chandra
"Barrel"/"Laughs" - Jace recovers his memories and goes back to Vryn, only to discover that Alhammarat has created a planar portal leading to New Phyrexia. They didn't put much effort into Vryn's world because it got rekt.

Wasn't the whole point of the Gatecrash Gideon that he was looking for/researching/testing a weapon to defeat the Eldrazi? Hence the "fuck it, just exile every last damn thing on the plane" ultimate? I guess he realized that it just wasn't acceptable to wipe the plane just to defeat the Eldrazi (that's a very un-Gideon thing to do, to be honest).

I don't recall anything about a weapon. He went to Ravnica to recruit other planeswalkers, but then he went into Justice Mode and got distracted helping the Boros.

BTW, those who know more about old Magic lore, what is the status of the Legacy Weapon? I believe the Mirari was an important part of it, which was last seen on Mirrodin, but its status is unknown other than the Phyrexians not having it. It could be an interesting subplot to have the heroes try to regather its parts (including Karn) to defeat the Phyrexians.

 

[OnPoint]

So we all pick on Tibalt, and rightfully so, but there have been quite a few actively bad PW cards. How the hell did they think people were going to use these:

Was it intended to be a control finisher in a field with way better options? It saw nearly no competitive play, and I can't think of any success it had. I could maybe see it in a Turbo Fog shell as your win con? Modern is ready for a shake up, boys!

Given her ability set, what the hell is going on here? It feels like it should have been a first appearance of a whole other black 'walker, and not one that would have really caught on given how poorly this is designed. Swamp search ability offers no protection, the -X/-X where X = your swamps in play kills your card if used the turn you play it. It's just a pretty awful card.

Turns out she's kind of bad. It's possible that the current standard environment has a use for her and they just haven't cracked it yet, and I might eat these words. But she kind of just does nothing to advance your position in a meaningful way.

Narrow applications, and those applications aren't even that good. Around as unexciting a planeswalker as you can get. They've really done a good job redoing her as a character in every way, except those horribly whiny Uncharted Realms stories. Then again, Mein Elph wouldn't be much better, so it's still a win.

Ral failed at solving the Dragon's Maze, and he failed at entering the world of constructed playability as well. Turns out a four-mana Lightning Bolt isn't enough to make it in this game these days. Turns out it probably never was.

He'd eventually have to have a stinker, right? Maybe at a mana less he could have played well in a Sultai self-mill strategy. Ah well, maybe he'll do better in the next core set...

I had to put him on here. I mean, it's cool that they tried this whole 2-cmc 'walker thing in red in a safe way before redoing it again later in blue in an $80 a piece way. Here's hoping him and Ob meet and team up to create some sort of crazy Rakdos-style problem for the current power rangers to deal with in the near future.

 

[Jhriad]

Thanks! I'm still trying to decide if I should send it away for WotC for a replacement. There's quite a bit of wear on the right and top edges.

Unless you're looking to get rid of them immediately it's best to get the replacement. It'll have better value long-term and in addition you'll typically get a free pack included as an apology when they send you your fresh replacement copy back.

Well, where's Urza then hm?

I mean only his head got detached. That doesn't mean anything.

Urza returns, eh? I'm okay with this. He was way more interesting than the majority of the current Walkers.

 

[El Topo]

Urza was a great character and had an amazing run. Let him rest.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Urza returns, eh? I'm okay with this. He was way more interesting than the majority of the current Walkers.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Urza returns, eh? I'm okay with this. He was way more interesting than the majority of the current Walkers.

I'd rather have Mishra, Urza was a snob.

Out of curiosity

does his 2nd ability work with everywhere but outside the game?

And I like tibalt he's awful but he'd be great if he'd just loot as his plus effect.

 

[OnPoint]

I'd rather have Mishra, Urza was a snob.

Out of curiosity

http://i.imgur.com/PVSq2ym.jpg[/IG]

does his 2nd ability work with everywhere but outside the game?[/QUOTE]

It only works if whatever you're targeting is on the battlefield and in play.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

It only works if whatever you're targeting is on the battlefield and in play.

imagine it being from anywhere, that'd have been a great ability and have synergy with his + effect

Targeting is restricted to the battlefield unless the card says otherwise.

I'm tired, I should know this.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Targeting is restricted to the battlefield unless the card says otherwise. In any case, permanents only exist on the battlefield.

 

[OnPoint]

imagine it being from anywhere, that'd have been a great ability and have synergy with his + effect

The only other place it could return something to the hand from would be the graveyard, or I guess exile (which I would guess is a no-no design-wise). From the graveyard would be considered a Green-style Regrowth ability. So maybe, if for some reason Jace went UG, he could have an ability that bounces permanents while moonlighting as a limited Regrowth

And for what it's worth, I wish they pushed Tibalt a bit. He could have been so cool, but they nerfed him hard and seemingly sloppily. I'm willing to bet there was a semi-to-completely busted version at some point during playtesting, maybe even right up until near the end and they "fixed" it right before finalizing it.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

The only other place it could return something to the hand from would be the graveyard, or I guess exile (which I would guess is a no-no design-wise). From the graveyard would be considered a Green-style Regrowth ability. So maybe, if for some reason Jace went UG, he could have an ability that bounces permanents while moonlighting as a limited Regrowth

And for what it's worth, I wish they pushed Tibalt a bit. He could have been so cool, but they nerfed him hard and seemingly sloppily. I'm willing to bet there was a semi-to-completely busted version at some point during playtesting, maybe even right up until near the end and they "fixed" it right before finalizing it.

returning from the graveyard would be green, returning from anywhere but outside the game would circumvent that. -3 is a heavy investment and his + barely gives card advantage so I think it'd have been a nice way to give him a unique effect.
He'd have to start with 4 loyalty counters though.

Tibalt is such a wasted opportunity, he's chaotic evil which fits red perfectly and his aesthetics are amazing. Sad it probably killed any chance of him recurring.

 

[pelicansurf]

I wonder if Painful Truths would be good in Jeskai as a 1 of. Maybe as a replacement for a treasure cruise. Seems like it could be really good. Draw 3, take 3. Gain it back with Soulfire or just deal with it.

It can actually be cast early in the game if you're color screwed / stuck on mana.

 

[Siegcram]

Speaking of planeswalkers, apparently MTGO was handing out Gideons like nobody's business. All Swiss queues are down.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Tibalt is such a wasted opportunity, he's chaotic evil which fits red perfectly and his aesthetics are amazing. Sad it probably killed any chance of him recurring.

Nah, MaRo has said that they're well aware that he's popular as a character.

 

[OnPoint]

returning from the graveyard would be green, returning from anywhere but outside the game would circumvent that. -3 is a heavy investment and his + barely gives card advantage so I think it'd have been a nice way to give him a unique effect.
He'd have to start with 4 loyalty counters though.

So you are suggesting he returns any non-land permanent from anywhere (in play, in exile, in graveyard) to the hand? Maybe if it was non-creature spell, but non-land permanent doesn't seem blue, unique or not.

 

[Toxi]

So I hop on StarCity this morning, hoping to maybe see some insight on where to take GW megamorph from here, how to beat it in the mirror, how other decks can hope to beat it, etc. given the weekend and what do I see?

http://www.starcitygames.com/article/31712_The-New-Green.html

An article that blames the field for playing the deck while embracing mardu dragons because the format shouldn't be solved so quickly even though mardu dragons didn't put up any kind of result and there's nothing to suggest it's favorable against the meta. Danny then goes on a massive rant against WotC and a perceived abuse of the color pie BECAUSE of the deck. Great.

None of the other coverage touches it, which is fair, lead times and all, but I keep getting the feeling people really resent the deck and its success, leading to less interest in discussing it, from either side of the table.

LOL at this part

Blue gets counterspells, card draw, occasional artifact tricks, and giant idiot Sphinxes.

...

Green gets mana creatures, ramp, flexible permanent removal, Regrowths with bodies attached, auto-reanimations, card draw, discard revenge (Obstinate Baloth), hexproof stuff, lifegain, can't be countered stuff...

Is this guy for real?

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

So you are suggesting he returns any non-land permanent from anywhere (in play, in exile, in graveyard) to the hand? Maybe if it was non-creature spell, but non-land permanent doesn't seem blue, unique or not.

Yeah, it's not necessarily blue but I think if it were nonland card from anywhere it'd be removed far enough from the colour pie it wouldn't matter.

He'd "draw" cards by putting them in the graveyard and then returning them to hand.
Too versatile probably limiting to noncreature spell would be better.

 

[Danielsan]

Got to love getting mana screwed on magic online. Instant loss.

 

[ultron87]

On that note I'd like to see a Blue Green "bounce" spell that is: "Return target card in a graveyard, spell, or non-land permanent to it's owner's hand."

Could cost like, UG.

 

[OnPoint]

Yeah, it's not necessarily blue but I think if it were nonland card from anywhere it'd be removed far enough from the colour pie it wouldn't matter.

He'd "draw" cards by putting them in the graveyard and then returning them to hand.
Too versatile probably limiting to noncreature spell would be better.

I agree that it would be unique, but it's broken beyond belief. I also don't think the ability fits into any color, honestly. It's more of a Karn and/or Eldrazi thing to play with exile (Ashiok can play with his/her own exiled pool, not exile in general), and those are colorless. What you're suggesting is an ability that reads like this:

-3: Choose one:
- Return target non-land permanent to its owner's hand
- Return target non-land permanent in exile to its owner's hand
- Return target non-land permanent in a graveyard to its owner's hand​

So you have practically unconditional bounce, graveyard recurrence and a way to get around Oblivion Ring effects. It would be outright insane. If I break it down into colors it's a mess.

-3: Choose one:
- Return target non-land permanent to its owner's hand - BLUE
- Return target non-land permanent in exile to its owner's hand - COLORLESS
- Return target non-land permanent in a graveyard to its owner's hand - GREEN​

I just don't think it's cohesive, fun, or good design.

 

[y2dvd]

I think the bigger problem for Esper is dealing with Evolutionary Leap out of the board and, when dealing with the "other" deck in the meta- Jeskai Black- beating Crackling Doom. I'd agree Complete Disregard is better than Foul-Tongue, but the deck will need more than that. Mainboard negate doesn't even seem that bad right now.

I think Dispel is mainboardable in the current meta. There's not too many sorcery spells to worry about and paying a U to counter all the best instant removals and pumps is gonna be ace. Doesn't hit PW but they are usually more expensive anyways, so hopefully Scatter should take care of those. It almost feels wrong to play any Shambling Vents as playing any tapped lands can hurt.

 

[bigkrev]

So apparently, the release tournaments were supposed to give out Gideon Avatars, but we're actually giving out Gideon cards instead

 

[divisionbyzorro]

So apparently, the release tournaments were supposed to give out Gideon Avatars, but we're actually giving out Gideon cards instead

....wow. They can't let people keep them, can they?

 

[Toxi]

Well, where's Urza then hm?

I mean only his head got detached. That doesn't mean anything.

His head got destroyed when the Legacy Weapon was activated.

 

[kirblar]

Gideon inching up. Was 29-30 TCG low on Fri/Sat, now 31-33 low.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I agree that it would be unique, but it's broken beyond belief. I also don't think the ability fits into any color, honestly. It's more of a Karn and/or Eldrazi thing to play with exile (Ashiok can play with his/her own exiled pool, not exile in general), and those are colorless. What you're suggesting is an ability that reads like this:

-3: Choose one:
- Return target non-land permanent to its owner's hand
- Return target non-land permanent in exile to its owner's hand
- Return target non-land permanent in a graveyard to its owner's hand​

If I break it down it's a mess. The colors look like this:

-3: Choose one:
- Return target non-land permanent to its owner's hand - BLUE
- Return target non-land permanent in exile to its owner's hand - COLORLESS
- Return target non-land permanent in a graveyard to its owner's hand - GREEN​

So you have practically unconditional bounce, graveyard recurrence and a way to get around Oblivion Ring effects. It would be outright insane.

Perfect for Jace ;-)

Absolutely broken though but with it being a -3 at 4 loyalty with a mediocre +1 it'd mostly be a one time use which for 4CMC should be ok.

Due to the simplification of the rules text it'd probably have to be written like that, but I'd just word it

• +1: Look at the top two cards of your library. Put one of them into your graveyard.
  
• −3: Return another target nonland card from any zone to its owner's hand.

Emblems and Commander's lol, Jace is just that stronk.

 

[Lucario]

....wow. They can't let people keep them, can they?

They definitely aren't removing them from accounts. It's already been fixed anyway.

 

[OnPoint]

Perfect for Jace ;-)

Absolutely broken though but with it being a -3 at 4 loyalty with a mediocre +1 it'd mostly be a one time use which for 4CMC should be ok.

...

I've decided, at equal moments, that you are insane and that I like you. Not to say I disliked you before. But still. Ya got moxie, kid.

 

[duxstar]

I love how deathmist raptor is too powerful but a blue planeswalker that lets you cast an instant or sorcery out of the graveyard is perfectly ok.

Remember when everyone said morph was cool but wasn't constructed playable ?

As far as I care blue can suck for the next 5 or 10 years to make up for the dominance its had for so long. Also I'm almost 90% sure that the pro tour will be dominated by more Jaces, Gideons and Siege Rhinos than it will Deathmist raptor lol