Lol you're only saying that cos your deck gets rekt by Kaarthus.
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Magic: the Gathering - Battle for Zendikar |OT| Lands matter (but nothing else does)
- Thread starter SigmasonicX
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Lol you're only saying that cos your deck gets rekt by Kaarthus.
I really miss Mana Burn. It probably never came up with experienced players, but it really did force new players to understand the mana pool and when it emptied. It is a little more difficult now to some newer players *my wife* to understand it since it doesn't have the penalty associated with not paying attention.
And I preferred suicide to scooping also.
And I preferred suicide to scooping also.
Mana burn and damage on the stack were both unnecessary and dumb, not to mention counter-intuitive, so I am glad that they are gone.
and https://twitter.com/rbuehler/status/658721771198156800 should be interesting if nothing else.
and https://twitter.com/rbuehler/status/658721771198156800 should be interesting if nothing else.
Right, i kind of thought people were putting maybe 1 or 2 too many 2-3 drops in there limited decks but now im seeing that its some what a fix sometimes against mana screw.
Another thing im pondering is mulligans.
I heard on a LR cast that stats show dropping to 6 really lowers your chance to win. So im wondering, with the new scry rule, if droping to 6 should only be a very desperate measure.
Mulligans always drop the % chance to win, but with the scry rule, it reduces the drop and reduces the number of non-interactive games where one person just sits and waits for the sweet release of death
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
In limited I keep the most awful hands, except maybe a 1 lander, even if it has barely any interaction.
Especially in BFZ you're gonna live until you can draw or play the cards in your hand unless the opponent has a nut draw.
Especially in BFZ you're gonna live until you can draw or play the cards in your hand unless the opponent has a nut draw.
Unless its got some sort of acceleration, I will mull anything without a 2nd land
Yeah, Karrthus is a bit of a double-edged sword. Prossh is just so much better normally.
Wonder if they'll add a few dragons in the new commander decks...
So your rule of thumb is 2 lands or bust? I can see that being reasonable.
A Serious Man
Member
Jesus TWoo, Honored Hierarch is trash, just let it go.
Two lands or land and mana dork, and 2-3 spells I can expect to be able to cast
That's why you have Greater Good and Homeward Path.
Yeah, maybe I'll switch to Prossh since my meta is getting really cut throat.
SigmasonicX
Member
The mana no longer being available isn't enough of a penalty?
I mean, yes it does, you don't have mana any more.
Mana burn is basically muggins in cribbage. It's not enough not to get the points -- in order for you to learn I must make you suffer.
Joe Molotov
Member
It's basically Delver of Secrets.
It is a penalty, but it tends to get overlooked sometimes when tapping and when moving to the next stage. Mana burn immediately reinforced that you made a mistake and was a little more memorable. Losing a game due to sloppy play is more memorable than not being able to play a card that might cost you the game. It also made people think about using lands like Gaeas Cradle that might produce more mana than you needed.
See I'm in the minority about mana burn though, so guess they made the right call.
Edit: And muggins in Cribbage did make me look at everything a lot better before playing anything since it did cost me a few games, being new and all. Think I'm a little better player due to it faster than I would have been not playing muggins.
SigmasonicX
Member
But using your mana efficiently isn't important enough for novice play for there to be a penalty built into the rules like that. Why does it matter if Gaea's Cradle is tapped for 5 mana but only 2 is used?
Keru_Shiri
Member
I do wonder how much mana burn would have impacted Nykthos during it's Standard run.
I agree that mana burn and damage on the stack made for some seriously unintuitive game mechanics when I was getting started. Even later on I had trouble in finding a simple enough explanation of damage on the stack for newbies to understand, since it made no sense that you could somehow sacrifice your Mogg Fanatic while it was in combat with another creature and then somehow have it deal post-mortem combat damage anyway. It's like creatures used to be Dragon Ball characters shooting energy beams at each other to attack or something.
Mana burn also sucked since, on top of punishing new players only most of the time, it constricted the design space around cards that cared about your life total, since players could often mana burn themselves on purpose to trigger stuff such as Pulse of the Fields. I remember the first time I hard about it I had played some Planeshift 1G 2/1 common elf that gave me mana of any color on ETB, and my more experienced friend had to explain to me that I'd have to take 1 damage due to that mana the elf had given me.
Mana burn also sucked since, on top of punishing new players only most of the time, it constricted the design space around cards that cared about your life total, since players could often mana burn themselves on purpose to trigger stuff such as Pulse of the Fields. I remember the first time I hard about it I had played some Planeshift 1G 2/1 common elf that gave me mana of any color on ETB, and my more experienced friend had to explain to me that I'd have to take 1 damage due to that mana the elf had given me.
So I'm gonna ask , are you guys noticing the same thing with standard that I am . The last 4 weeks I've avoided it because it doesn't seem that fun and thought it was maybe just me not feeling it or getting burnt out on magic, no biggie it happens.
However when I went to my LGS for modern I had found that 2 of the regulars I talked to also said they had just sold out of standard as well.
Normally 3 people isn't a big deal but when it's 3 people at a small store that gets about 10 - 16 people at an fnm that's a fairly high percentage of people. Are you guys noticing similar things or is it just an isolated incident ?
However when I went to my LGS for modern I had found that 2 of the regulars I talked to also said they had just sold out of standard as well.
Normally 3 people isn't a big deal but when it's 3 people at a small store that gets about 10 - 16 people at an fnm that's a fairly high percentage of people. Are you guys noticing similar things or is it just an isolated incident ?
"God's Beard!"
Member
I dunno, but I traded everything from Standard that doesn't go in my Jeskai deck for fetches. Sorry kirblar, that means my Gideons too.
MiniJace becoming JTMS is very very unhealthy for the game.
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";183166367]I dunno, but I traded everything from Standard that doesn't go in my Jeskai deck for fetches. Sorry kirblar, that means my Gideons too.[/QUOTE]
Please tell me they're extras and that you had a playset of 20 prior to Theros rotation?
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
You can't compare JVP to JTMS outside of price. You don't actually need JVP to win tournaments. Caw Blade was so good you couldn't play anything else other than dedicated hate decks.
It doesn't help that most of the removal is equal mana or more.
Then there's Ojutai's Command LOL
This was literally the big problem with JTMS after Alara rotated.
However, Dark Jeskai may be the best deck right now.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Losing to a guy with a horrible 4 color abomination with nothing but junk rares is fucking infurating. Dude just topdecked topdecked topdecked all three games. And we was topdecking the most idiotic cards that just happened to be perfect topdecks over and over and over, and his entire deck was 1-ofs. Fucking infuriating. Not to mention his habit of fucking taking forever to do literally any action.
Not only that, but the hawk also made JTMS' brainstorm even stronger by allowing you to put extra hawks on top of your library and casting another to "draw" them again. Is the current standard anywhere near being as bad as caw-blade in its prime?
I'd say seeing two other guys that have gone out of Standard at the same time as you is still anecdotic evidence at best. People come and go in Magic all the time (hell, I haven't played in over a year), even if some particular formats might make players more likely to drop the game than others (arcbound ravager says hi).
I looked at it more as causing you to build good habits then just punishing you for sloppy play. In the end it should cause you to be a smarter player.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Yeah, but it's hard to trade standard cards for the eternal stuff I need so I figured I'd at least get fetches since they're appreciating faster than say Snapcaster Mages.
Nobody wants to trade spellskites for deathmist raptors.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";183171815]Yeah, but it's hard to trade standard cards for the eternal stuff I need so I figured I'd at least get fetches since they're appreciating faster than say Snapcaster Mages.
Nobody wants to trade spellskites for deathmist raptors.[/QUOTE]
I don't know, though. I have my doubts that demand for Modern is going to keep increasing the way it has been. I suppose they aren't going down.
Nobody wants to trade spellskites for deathmist raptors.[/QUOTE]
I don't know, though. I have my doubts that demand for Modern is going to keep increasing the way it has been. I suppose they aren't going down.
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";183171815]Yeah, but it's hard to trade standard cards for the eternal stuff I need so I figured I'd at least get fetches since they're appreciating faster than say Snapcaster Mages.
Nobody wants to trade spellskites for deathmist raptors.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, that I can understand, tho I think you want to rebuy Gideon in 2 4 months.
Nobody wants to trade spellskites for deathmist raptors.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, that I can understand, tho I think you want to rebuy Gideon in 2 4 months.
phazedplasma
Member
Its funny cause in all of his games with that deck he never really got it off.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
"Near Mint"
"Near Mint"
At least you can get it replaced by WotC right?
divisionbyzorro
Member
I really like what he's trying to do. I just don't like his voice/mannerisms over all of it.
We had much fewer people at Game Day than we normally do. We got exactly 8 at each event when normally we get like 16~30 people. I think standard is just too expensive right now, for one. The other is that the BFZ strategies just aren't competitive, so it doesn't feel like a 'new' standard.
"Near Mint"
What the hell is wrong with the edge on that one? I mean, I've gotten two with some edge wear but that thing looks like someone took a file to it.
Yeah, Standard is too expensive for me to bother buying into it right now. Jace + Gideon just means I'm not even going to bother. I could use Pucapoints to get a playset of each but why bother buying into those cards when they're going to lose a ton of value over time AND they're part of a boring metagame.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Joe Molotov
Member
"Near Mint"
Yeah, I mean 99% of the card is mint, it's just that 1% on the side that's messed up.
GregLombardi
Member
Any ideas as to why on earth this deck went 3-0? I thought it was 2-1 at best, though I'm happy with the outcome.
Buhaha give this guy some negative reviews."Near Mint"
Just want to reiterate pictures do not do those expedition lands justice.
What I will defend about Standard is there are a few decks suprisingly popping out of the woodwork. Thought it was gonna be a Atarka Red/GW Megamorph/Jeskai black world.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Any ideas as to why on earth this deck went 3-0? I thought it was 2-1 at best, though I'm happy with the outcome.
I mean look at the 5drops, 2 of the best awaken spells and a Tidecaller,... I'm jelly.
GregLombardi
Member
I guess I just felt that it could easily be that the 5 drops would come out to little fanfare with an empty board more often than not, I don't know.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
You effectively had only 3 nonland cards that don't provide you a body.
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