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[WanderingWind]

"I realized that the game is all about new discovery, and if our goal is to keep exploring new design space that I have to be willing to re-evaluate old decisions. I don't have the luxury of absolutes. Good design means no previous design rules are off limits from re-examination.

This is the part that has my brain turning circles as to what it could mean

Sadly, the issue of the conserved tryst is out of R&D's hands, by their accounts. But it's still promising for what is under their control. I've said it more than a few times that they way they have been thinking of the game is as they thought about it when it was a much smaller product. I'm curious to see where they loosen up. I've already written of BFZ block, but maybe something actually interesting is coming down the pipes.

Oh, and it surprises nobody, but Gideon is good. Like, really good.

 

[Firemind]

Gideon is boring. You're boring everybody. Quit boring everyone.

 

[WanderingWind]

Gideon is boring. You're boring everybody. Quit boring everyone.

....better card than any version of Niv-Mizzet.

 

["God's Beard!"]

....better card than any version of Niv-Mizzet.

Temur EDH decks with their Dracogenius + Prophet of Kruphix nonsense :-(

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I mean the new Gideon does interesting stuff now compared to before.
A walker that can emblem the turn he comes into play is also interesting.

Though the flavour behind it makes me curious. He joins the battle glorious anthems the people and then is like fuck off I'm done with this shit?

 

[WanderingWind]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";183006602]Temur EDH decks with their Dracogenius + Prophet of Kruphix nonsense :-([/QUOTE]

EDH? Psh. I thought we were talking real Magic.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Some guy I was drafting with who was a complete noob pulled a Gideon in draft. Then he immediatley played his girlfriend and destroyed her with the card.

 

[ultron87]

Though the flavour behind it makes me curious. He joins the battle glorious anthems the people and then is like fuck off I'm done with this shit?

I saw it as him showing up, encouraging everyone for a sec, then bouncing off to another plane for awhile to get help until you play him again.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I saw it as him showing up, encouraging everyone for a sec, then bouncing off to another plane for awhile to get help until you play him again.

I honestly doubt there's supposed to be a ton of flavor justification in how much the ultimate of any given planeswalker actually costs. It's like arguing that Narset starts at 7 loyalty because she's supposed to be your clingy Planeswalker girlfriend.

 

[Firemind]

pffffft i could do that too if i could poop out an endless stream of 2/2 tokens.

honestly token-generating walkers can bugger off. so uninspired. and like people have said, gideon isn't one to call reinforcements. he's literally superman. it's boring and a flavourfail.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I saw it as him showing up, encouraging everyone for a sec, then bouncing off to another plane for awhile to get help until you play him again.

That makes more sense

pffffft i could do that too if i could poop out an endless stream of 2/2 tokens.

honestly token-generating walkers can bugger off. so uninspired. and like people have said, gideon isn't one to call reinforcements. he's literally superman. it's boring and a flavourfail.

Gideon is depicted pretty radical white.

 

[ultron87]

I honestly doubt there's supposed to be a ton of flavor justification in how much the ultimate of any given planeswalker actually costs. It's like arguing that Narset starts at 7 loyalty because she's supposed to be your clingy Planeswalker girlfriend.

I'm sorry I wanted to think about flavor for a second.

 

[WanderingWind]

But he's got a whip thingy and uh...can sort of uh..

Okay, look the character and his flavor suck big ol Marit Lage balls, but Zendikar's Ally is a sweet card. Being able to ultimate immediately is sort of a big deal and being able to generate infinite blockers is swell too.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I'm sorry I wanted to think about flavor for a second.

I'm just saying is that the abilities are all in-flavor. The amount they cost is mostly just gameplay.

 

[OnPoint]

I mean the new Gideon does interesting stuff now compared to before.
A walker that can emblem the turn he comes into play is also interesting.

Though the flavour behind it makes me curious. He joins the battle glorious anthems the people and then is like fuck off I'm done with this shit?

I liked it when Sorin from Dark Ass did that, too. Gideon is better though.

 

[Firemind]

Gideon is depicted pretty radical white.

What does that have to do with anything?

Just because he's white, we have to do his bidding? Sounds like slavery to me!

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

That he isn't literally Superman

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Gideon's whole shtick in this set is rallying people to the cause. That's why he poops out tokens.

 

[Firemind]

Why though? He's Superman.

And since when is Superman not white?

 

[Angry Grimace]

Gideon is the John Cena of Planeswalkers. Canonically indestructible and only goes away and stops being completely OP when he feels like it.

Gideon's whole shtick in this set is rallying people to the cause. That's why he poops out tokens.

I think the bigger flavor problem to me is that his second and third abilities are very much Elspeth abilities. They make flavor sense with regards to this set, I guess, but I rather wonder if there was a way to get the "Gideon gets you friends" flavor across without actively making his abilities so mechanically similar to Elspeth.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Gideon isn't white since Theros (?) and I was speaking of the colour pie.

At least in the story with him and chandra he came off as completely uncompromising and absolute, willing to make sacrifices for the greater good. He literally has a wrath + Armageddon in one of his terations

I mean if R&D were to design a literal Superman card, he would be white.

yeah but it wouldn't wipe out everything else in existence

 

[Firemind]

I mean if R&D were to design a literal Superman card, he would be white.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Superman would be fucking red, white, and blue.

Spoiler

/s

 

[Joe Molotov]

but it got a bit too silly even for me when 100-year-old MaRo came in talking about how AIs design Magic cards now.

 

[shrapnelmagnet]

ChannelFireball pls. No BFZ draft videos since last Wednesday?

 

[WanderingWind]

ChannelFireball pls. No BFZ draft videos since last Wednesday?

Nobody curr about BFZ.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

ChannelFireball pls. No BFZ draft videos since last Wednesday?

Their guys were all preoccupied with PT preparation. The drafts we've seen so far were all from around the release of BfZ.

 

[Firemind]

yeah but it wouldn't wipe out everything else in existence

okay sorry i'm not following you

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Gideon was on Ravnica hunting for a weapon to defeat the Eldrazi. That Planeswalker card depicts that quest.

You'll note he didn't bring that terrible weapon back with him.

 

[pigeon]

"I realized that the game is all about new discovery, and if our goal is to keep exploring new design space that I have to be willing to re-evaluate old decisions. I don't have the luxury of absolutes. Good design means no previous design rules are off limits from re-examination.

This is the part that has my brain turning circles as to what it could mean

I mean, it doesn't mean anything. There's like a hundred columns about how good design means challenging previous design rules. Every time any new set launches MaRo is there with the first preview card to explain why they decided to do something they said they'd never do like double-faced cards/planeswalkers/double-faced planeswalkers/manifest/a better morph/equipment/etc./etc./etc.

If anything, I think MaRo deliberately magnifies the importance of design rules to make it feel more exciting when they constantly break them with new sets.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I mean, it doesn't mean anything. There's like a hundred columns about how good design means challenging previous design rules. Every time any new set launches MaRo is there with the first preview card to explain why they decided to do something they said they'd never do like double-faced cards/planeswalkers/double-faced planeswalkers/manifest/a better morph/equipment/etc./etc./etc.

If anything, I think MaRo deliberately magnifies the importance of design rules to make it feel more exciting when they constantly break them with new sets.

I suppose I just don't get why he thinks this is such a huge rules break. The exile zone is not and never has been some kind of SUPER GRAVEYARD which is why they renamed it to Exile to begin with. Sometimes it does work like that (e.g. you Utter End something), but the Exile zone gets used all the time as a placeholder zone to mechanically make cards work (e.g. DFC Planeswalkers) or as a holding zone (e.g. blinking things, O-Ring, etc.)

It wouldn't really be novel at all if the Processor cards interacted with cards that they themselves had exiled - Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver does this. Doing it with all of the cards in the entire exile zone isn't all that different, it just gives the Eldrazi as a tribe more synergy without creating a shitload of gameplay and memory issues of worrying about what exiled what card and figuring out a way to make the Processors themselves exile the cards.

 

[Firemind]

yeah okay. his ultimate is -15 though and the only way to build it is if your opponent has creatures. or you +1 for 11 turns. so basically it's fluff.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

It's flavour and part of the reason why I consider him radically white. He also was in Boros and not RW.

 

[Firemind]

Well, Superman can also be defined as radically white. Just a different type of radical. :shrug

 

[Yeef]

He's Superman.

Gideon is actually closer to Captain America than Superman, I'd say.

 

[pigeon]

Gideon isn't white since Theros (?) and I was speaking of the colour pie.

At least in the story with him and chandra he came off as completely uncompromising and absolute, willing to make sacrifices for the greater good. He literally has a wrath + Armageddon in one of his terations

Those are both white cards?

"Kill everything and let God sort it out" is old-school white.

 

[Haines]

ChannelFireball pls. No BFZ draft videos since last Wednesday?

Im having a hard time finding any bfz draft stuff period.

I hope magic isnt always this scarce on stuff to watch limited wise.

 

[Firemind]

it's because nobody likes to draft bfz

 

[Forgive Me]

other than potential value proposition (? maybe not true) i like drafting origins more because bfz feels kind of lame. even if origins mechanics can be pretty boring zendikar doesnt inspire me during the draft like origins does. not a great set to get back into magic during but i have hope for the future. i did have fun with a converge deck that wasnt very good i guess

i really wish i got to play during theros, thassa is so cool and i want to play blue devotion

but these are just my noob feelings

 

[shrapnelmagnet]

Im having a hard time finding any bfz draft stuff period.

I hope magic isnt always this scarce on stuff to watch limited wise.

You can check http://www.gatheringmagic.com/ for draft videos, too.

 

[Haines]

You can check http://www.gatheringmagic.com/ for draft videos, too.

Oh great
I was looking for more sources of magic stuff ty

 

[noquarter]

This is the best mythic ever. And it is a land so you know it will be valuable.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I wonder if you could make a reasonable rules text that made a card stay on the battlefield no matter what. No exile, staying as an 0/0, no being bounced, superbounced, shuffled away, no getting controlled away or being sacrificed,...
Except restarting a game and losing/winning

Looking something up there actually is something preventing sacrificing, didn't know

 

[Keru_Shiri]

I wonder if you could make a reasonable rules text that made a card stay on the battlefield no matter what. No exile, staying as an 0/0, no being bounced, superbounced, shuffled away, no getting controlled away or being sacrificed,...
Except restarting a game and losing/winning

Looking something up there actually is something preventing sacrificing, didn't know

The closest I can come up with is something like "[CARDNAME] can't leave the battlefield."

 

[Angry Grimace]

I wonder if you could make a reasonable rules text that made a card stay on the battlefield no matter what. No exile, staying as an 0/0, no being bounced, superbounced, shuffled away, no getting controlled away or being sacrificed,...
Except restarting a game and losing/winning

Looking something up there actually is something preventing sacrificing, didn't know

There's a few things that will prevent sacrifices, like Sigarda.

There's nothing in the game that will prevent Perilous Vault from exiling things.

 

[Joe Molotov]

Purely anecdotal, just based on seeing it on shelves in every store in the area. Not backed up with any hard data.

Either way, $100 for a single, standard legal card in what has to be one of the most plentifully printed sets ever is a black mark they should fix. The only caveat is that he's not oppressively good.

According to Hasbro's Q3 earnings report, Origins was the best-selling summer set ever.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

The closest I can come up with is something like "[CARDNAME] can't leave the battlefield."

That's what I was thinking too but the reminder text would be very long

There's a few things that will prevent sacrifices, like Sigarda.

There's nothing in the game that will prevent Perilous Vault from exiling things.

Would be interesting though. Doesn't need to be a good card otherwise, just something that once you have it in play can't leave your side. Make it unable to block and give it shroud or whatever.

 

[shrapnelmagnet]

Oh great
I was looking for more sources of magic stuff ty

No worries. Marshall used to do draft videos for them before LSV came on and he moved over the ChannelFireball.com.

I used to watch stuff on http://www.mtgoacademy.com/, but I haven't in a while.

 

[DashReindeer]

According to Hasbro's Q3 earnings report, Origins was the best-selling summer set ever.

I wonder if Wizards is at all disappointed with the fact that they decided to ditch Core Sets right before the best selling one of all time came out. I don't have the highest hopes that Fears, the small set that's due to come out Summer 2016, will compare in terms of sales.