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Magic: the Gathering - Battle for Zendikar |OT| Lands matter (but nothing else does)

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S

shrapnelmagnet

Member
The Brainstorm Brewery cast was really positive on Herald of Kozilek, I'm tempted to buy some early (not pre-order though, it's $0.75 at the moment)... I would just hate to like a card and then have it spike. They were anticipating that even though the Exp Lands will absorb a ton of value, if a card spikes, it will spike harder than usual.

That said, as people have said here, I don't think the card is crazy, I just do want a playset to casual around :)
 
C

charlequin

Banned
A Serious Man said:
I imagined the move to the two set stucture would be rocky and this just confirms it. Maybe BfZ block started out as three sets? That would explain a lot.
Click to expand...

It did, yes. They went from spreading out the material over three sets, but trying to keep the complexity in each one low, to jamming it into two.

kirblar said:
Pros practicing drafting are running into a real issue trying to remember which cards are vanilla allies.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what hook you could use to fix this, and I don't think "well just don't do a type like this without a shared mechanic on every card" is actually a reasonable restriction, but it is a kind of hilarious problem to run into.

Maybe instead of trying to fix this mechanically, they should've just come up with a strong visual cue? Design a Zendikari banner or something and put it in all the art.
 
B

blindrocket

Member
Firemind said:
Yeah, with busted artifacts this makes a lot of sense, but in 1v1 where those cards are banned, this is actually perfect. Hm. Now I'm struggling if I should build a 1v1 EDH deck. It's a change of pace since using your normal EDH decks can lead to very dumb games 1v1.
Click to expand...

I play 1v1 / Duel Commander, and I prefer it. You can actually play just to win with your power deck if you want and omit the politics.
 
S

shrapnelmagnet

Member
Good lord, Wizards production is spotty as per usual. The mic levels are a joke (or people are just at whisper levels for some reason). I'm tempted to just go back to watching the SCG Open. You know, where they actually give a shit.
 
F

Familienoberhauptvogel

Banned
So went and preordered 2 Kiora's for my bant deck and a Drana for now. Didn't want to spend any more atm, maybe once I start working part time again I'll buy some more if they didn't spike.

Daedardus said:
Actually, the most annoying thing about the set is that they somehow decided they wanted to put beautiful full-art lands in the fatpacks, but forgot that they might cause an increased demand. Fat packs are sold out everywhere I looked, even when the price was raised to €50 (that's nearly a €14 land tax). Of course, you can get them in boosters, but with the set not looking so hot, I assume many people are putting off on boxes. At least I preordered mine early.
Click to expand...

damn forgot to preorder this week wanted to get 2 packs and a display.
 
D

Daedardus

Member
Actually, the most annoying thing about the set is that they somehow decided they wanted to put beautiful full-art lands in the fatpacks, but forgot that they might cause an increased demand. Fat packs are sold out everywhere I looked, even when the price was raised to €50 (that's nearly a €14 land tax). Of course, you can get them in boosters, but with the set not looking so hot, I assume many people are putting off on boxes. At least I preordered mine early.
 
S

shrapnelmagnet

Member
PS: Don't forget to log in to MTGO if you have an account. Might as well.

http://magic.wizards.com/en/article...ouncements-september-15-2015-2015-09-15#item1

If the Wizards Team wins (which they totally will), players who logged in during Community Cup weekend—September 19 and 20—will be getting a non-premium Drown in Sorrow.
Click to expand...

If the Community Team wins, players will get one-each, premium and non-premium, of the John Avon Unhinged basic lands, plus a premium and non-premium version of Thalia, Guardian of Thraben!
Click to expand...
 
S

shrapnelmagnet

Member
The Technomancer said:
I have literally never used it, but sure

Can you not set up a preset pod of people to draft with? Doing GAF drafts would be awesome now that I moved away from my old friends, but knowing MTGO I guess there's no way to do that
Click to expand...

I know Limited Resources has a Cube that they draft, but I think it's a pain to interact with since you have to draft outside the game and then have some trade you the cards, which you then trade back after the event. Never tried it, though, but conceivably it could be done.

As for a draft of a real set that's live, a group could all join one event at the same time and that would sorta do it? I just have an account casually and play some goofy legacy decks in the Just for Fun room... I intended to do drafts more, but I'm a scardey-pants and never do it, lol.

Familienoberhauptvogel said:
Was planning to sign up but I'm not gonna pay 10$ for something I barely intend to use. It feels so weird in today's world to pay for a sign up, just wrong.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's fair. Especially in an age of Free To Play games.

EDIT:

It gives you some cards of the current set (commons / uncommons) and some New Player Points that can be used in some "new player" events - I did a couple Magic 2015 drafts with them when I got the account.
 
S

SigmasonicX

Member
With spoiler season over, I'd like people, particularly those new to the discussion, to answer these questions.
1. Was it a good idea to move the topic to OT? Was the timing of the move good, or would it have been better sooner or later?

2. For people new to the topic, did you have an easy enough time following the discussion, particularly when it comes to the quality of cards?

3. Was there any information you wished was in the OP, or any part of the OP that you didn't find helpful and thus can be removed?

4. For the next set, Oath of the Gatewatch, should we continue using this thread, or should we start fresh with each set? The current plan is that we only create new threads for the start of each block. When Oath spoiler season starts, a link to a new pseudo-OP will be edited into the top of the first post.
 
F

Familienoberhauptvogel

Banned
The Technomancer said:
IIRC it does give you some tickets, so its not lost money
Click to expand...

shrapnelmagnet said:
Yeah, that's fair. Especially in an age of Free To Play games.

EDIT:

It gives you some cards of the current set (commons / uncommons) and some New Player Points that can be used in some "new player" events - I did a couple Magic 2015 drafts with them when I got the account.
Click to expand...

Yeah read up on that might actually decide to still sign up. The 10$ aren't really a barrier just a feelsbadman.

I also fear of adding just another expensive hobby to my roster.

Anyways what's Kanye West's face doing on a 20yr old card?

86.jpg


anyone else seeing it?
 
K

kirblar

Member
SigmasonicX said:
With spoiler season over, I'd like people, particularly those new to the discussion, to answer these questions.
1. Was it a good idea to move the topic to OT? Was the timing of the move good, or would it have been better sooner or later?

2. For people new to the topic, did you have an easy enough time following the discussion, particularly when it comes to the quality of cards?

3. Was there any information you wished was in the OP, or any part of the OP that you didn't find helpful and thus can be removed?

4. For the next set, Oath of the Gatewatch, should we continue using this thread, or should we start fresh with each set? The current plan is that we only create new threads for the start of each block. When Oath spoiler season starts, a link to a new pseudo-OP will be edited into the top of the first post.
Click to expand...
1) Yes, following the VG model was a good idea

4) Assuming we follow the VG model, we're back in Community in about 5 months. A new thread for GW when it comes out repeating the process in OT proper would then need to get made.
 
S

shrapnelmagnet

Member
T

Takuhi

Member
Angry Grimace said:
You can just wrangle it so that wedge mana is fine, you just have to fuck with it a lot.

For example, if you're Jeskai, run 4 Windswept Heath instead of 4 Flooded Strand. Why? Because you can fetch all three colors of mana with a Windswept Heath off of either a singleton Cinder Glade in your deck or if you want U or W you just fetch Prairie Stream. Its counter-intuitive, but you have to do weird stuff with these fetches and typed duals.
Click to expand...

Whoaaaa... You just blew my mind!

If that's really the right way to build manabases, Converge might be stronger than it looks, if everyone's going to have a fourth color lying around.
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
SigmasonicX said:
4. For the next set, Oath of the Gatewatch, should we continue using this thread, or should we start fresh with each set? The current plan is that we only create new threads for the start of each block. When Oath spoiler season starts, a link to a new pseudo-OP will be edited into the top of the first post.
Click to expand...

I think new thread for new block makes the most sense
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Takuhi said:
Whoaaaa... You just blew my mind!

If that's really the right way to build manabases, Converge might be stronger than it looks, if everyone's going to have a fourth color lying around.
Click to expand...

I suspect it is: the opportunity cost of playing Windswept Heath over Flooded Strand in a Jeskai deck is that you can't fetch a basic island. But the ability to fetch a basic island seems less important in a three-color deck than being sure you can get all three colors (hell, sometimes they're not even going to come into play tapped).

The absolute most aggressively greedy way to build a landbase that way is like 4x Windswept Heath, 4x Polluted Delta, 1x Cinder Glade, 1x Smouldering Marsh, 3x Prairie Stream or something. That's probably too reliant on taplands though.
 
R

Reishiki

Banned
Really, I'm on the MTGO hate bandwagon without actually really using the client, despite having an account. Drafting seems super intimidating and my casual background has never translated well to non-casual formats the few times I have attended events and my (formerly) local game shop.

Should I make an attempt at drafting in MGTO?

Edit: With RTZ on the horizon, I understand this is poor timing. I have also considered grabbing singles for a MGTO standard deck.
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";179382271]Breaking down Sidisi Whip after its last tournament ever and packing up my playset of foil Satyr Wayfinders makes me wanna die ;_;

#itgetsbetter[/QUOTE]

There's no replacement of any kind for Satyr Wayfinder

#allislost
 
K

kirblar

Member
Reishiki said:
Really, I'm on the MTGO hate bandwagon without actually really using the client, despite having an account. Drafting seems super intimidating and my casual background has never translated well to non-casual formats the few times I have attended events and my (formerly) local game shop.

Should I make an attempt at drafting in MGTO?

Edit: With RTZ on the horizon, I understand this is poor timing. I have also considered grabbing singles for a MGTO standard deck.
Click to expand...
Log in for the free stuffs this weekend

I just play HS online.
 
G

Gotchaye

Member
SigmasonicX said:
With spoiler season over, I'd like people, particularly those new to the discussion, to answer these questions.
1. Was it a good idea to move the topic to OT? Was the timing of the move good, or would it have been better sooner or later?

2. For people new to the topic, did you have an easy enough time following the discussion, particularly when it comes to the quality of cards?

3. Was there any information you wished was in the OP, or any part of the OP that you didn't find helpful and thus can be removed?

4. For the next set, Oath of the Gatewatch, should we continue using this thread, or should we start fresh with each set? The current plan is that we only create new threads for the start of each block. When Oath spoiler season starts, a link to a new pseudo-OP will be edited into the top of the first post.
Click to expand...

No opinion on a lot of this, really. I didn't find the thread by stumbling across it but from a link in the Duels thread (I think). The timing worked out pretty well since it coincided with daily card reveals and this was a useful place to see those. I don't really understand the set/block distinction for threads; I had thought the next set would basically be its own thing, mechanically, even if it's more closely tied story-wise to BFZ than BFZ is to Origins. I'm here because I'm curious about new cards that might come to Duels so obviously some parts of the OP were not that useful, but it was generally good and I'm not complaining.

No problems following the discussion of new cards after playing Hearthstone for a few years and then Duels for a couple months. 3 letter abbreviations for long-ago sets are pretty opaque, though. The use of random names for different color combinations also necessitates googling.

Ashodin said:
BFZ sealed starting

http://www.twitch.tv/magic

Getting to see new cards in action!
Click to expand...

This is like the least watchable game I've ever encountered. Back to HotS streams.
 
Y

Yeef

Member
There's very few cards that can answer a resolved Ulamog in this set.

Protip: Don't let your opponents resolve (or cast) Ulamog.
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I dunno, I know people are like "RHINOS" but I just think too many of the really strong cards sticking around are Jeskai.
 
Y

Yeef

Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";179384758]The only thing I know about my next Standard deck is that I'm playing Crackling Doom and Abzan Charm in it.[/QUOTE]There's plenty of ways to deal with him in constructed; I'm more worried about prerelease. Since everyone except for me is bound to open six (6) Ulamogs, I just want to be prepared.

[EDIT] Also, based on the community cup it seems like red might be the strongest color in sealed. It's got good offensive and defensive, cheap creatures, great removal and bomb uncommons like Rolling Thunder and Turn Against.
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";179384758]The only thing I know about my next Standard deck is that I'm playing Crackling Doom and Abzan Charm in it.[/QUOTE]

Just do a few sample hands and you'll see why this is a horrible idea. The format isn't likely to *actually* be slow enough that you can just play 100% taplands.
 
G

"God's Beard!"

Member
Angry Grimace said:
Just do a few sample hands and you'll see why this is a horrible idea. The format isn't likely to *actually* be slow enough that you can just play 100% taplands.
Click to expand...

You can get enough sources for both and still play fewer taplands than Abzan Control did last season. It severely limits your double-mana spells or utility lands though. And the utility lands are very very good right now.
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";179386495]You can get enough sources for both and still play fewer taplands than Abzan Control did last season. It severely limits your double-mana spells or utility lands though. And the utility lands are very very good right now.[/QUOTE]

You can get enough sources, but 100% of your lands CIPT - when you play 4 or 5 color all of your Battlelands are almost always taplands unless you get some kind of crazy draw. Just try it. I already generated lots of hands off of my stupid brews and you can't actually play 4 color outside of maybe getting an extra color on a converge spell. Everything comes into play tapped 100% of the time and you'll likely just get run over by someone who built a deck that goes faster

If I had to venture a guess, in anything shard or more than 3 colors, the untapped rider on the duals is probably irrelevant.
 
A

A Serious Man

Member
Reishiki said:
Really, I'm on the MTGO hate bandwagon without actually really using the client, despite having an account. Drafting seems super intimidating and my casual background has never translated well to non-casual formats the few times I have attended events and my (formerly) local game shop.

Should I make an attempt at drafting in MGTO?

Edit: With RTZ on the horizon, I understand this is poor timing. I have also considered grabbing singles for a MGTO standard deck.
Click to expand...

Go draft Origins, it's a simple format and a good jumping off point I think. I wouldn't be intimidated by it, even the pros draft bad decks (tip: Don't first pick Deadbridge Shaman) and nobody else can see what you're picking so you can experiment and learn without feeling bad. Drafting is fun enough that you'll even put up with MTGO, I'd definitely give it a shot.
 
G

"God's Beard!"

Member
Angry Grimace said:
You can get enough sources, but 100% of your lands CIPT - when you play 4 or 5 color all of your Battlelands are almost always taplands unless you get some kind of crazy draw. Just try it. I already generated lots of hands off of my stupid brews and you can't actually play 4 color outside of maybe getting an extra color on a converge spell. Everything comes into play tapped 100% of the time and you'll likely just get run over by someone who built a deck that goes faster

If I had to venture a guess, in anything shard or more than 3 colors, the untapped rider on the duals is probably irrelevant.
Click to expand...

I dunno, I played half a dozen games with dux right now and early reports seem to indicate the mana's not too unreasonable. That's also the power of playing a ton of two-drops in your deck :p

Zulaport Cutthroat + Catacomb Sifter is the real deal. I don't know if my 4c shell is where you want to be, but expect some sort of pseudo-aristocrats deck to be a player in the coming season. Any game where I got to play two cutthroats or connect with drana basically ended on the spot.

Unified Front is pretty medium but man is it satisfying to cast for full converge.
 
R

Reishiki

Banned
I took the advice and jumped into one of those newbie tourneys on MGTO. Drafted a WG renown deck, went 2-0 (2-1 & 2-0) and won the thing.

Having actually used the client, it's not irredeemably awful, but it's in dire need of streamlining.
 
F

Firemind

Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";179404351]Zulaport Cutthroat + Catacomb Sifter is the real deal. I don't know if my 4c shell is where you want to be, but expect some sort of pseudo-aristocrats deck to be a player in the coming season. Any game where I got to play two cutthroats or connect with drana basically ended on the spot.[/QUOTE]
lol

though three toughness creatures are a tad annoying now. i'm guessing people are going to play touch of the void for lack of a better alternative. it also kills hangarbacks and friends in a pinch.
 
A

A Serious Man

Member
Reishiki said:
I took the advice and jumped into one of those newbie tourneys on MGTO. Drafted a WG renown deck, went 2-0 (2-1 & 2-0) and won the thing.

Having actually used the client, it's not irredeemably awful, but it's in dire need of streamlining.
Click to expand...

Yeah MTGO is... functional. It's in dire need of a modern overhaul though and has been for quite a long time.
 
F

Firemind

Member
i guess there's fiery impulse.

works better with abbot of keral keep too.

still think jeskai is going to be a powerhouse. jace too stronk
 
G

Giant Panda

Member
This is probably the deck I'll run at first for the new standard: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/greenwhite-morphs-bfz/

2x Warden of the First Tree
2x Hangarback Walker
4x Heir of the Wilds
4x Deathmist Raptor
4x Den Protector
4x Hidden Dragonslayer
2x Surrak, the Hunt Caller
2x Wingmate Roc

4x Valorous Stance
4x Dromoka's Command
2x End Hostilities
2x Evolutionary Leap

4x Canopy Vista
9x Forest (BFZ)
7x Plains (BFZ)
4x Windswept Heath

The loss of Fleecemane really hurts the deck, but I think the deck will still work. I'd love to hear any suggestions!
 
E

Etrian Oddity

Member
Giant Panda said:
This is probably the deck I'll run at first for the new standard: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/greenwhite-morphs-bfz/

2x Warden of the First Tree
2x Hangarback Walker
4x Heir of the Wilds
4x Deathmist Raptor
4x Den Protector
4x Hidden Dragonslayer
2x Surrak, the Hunt Caller
2x Wingmate Roc

4x Valorous Stance
4x Dromoka's Command
2x End Hostilities
2x Evolutionary Leap

4x Canopy Vista
9x Forest (BFZ)
7x Plains (BFZ)
4x Windswept Heath

The loss of Fleecemane really hurts the deck, but I think the deck will still work. I'd love to hear any suggestions!
Click to expand...
Jesus that's an expensive deck.
 
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