It's also a game where the basis of the ruleset came from about 30 pages of Manga, most of which was devoted to drawing different monsters.
The fact that it's still really popular nearly 20 years later is a testament to something
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Magic: the Gathering - Oath o/t Gatewatch |OT| Look again, the mana is now diamonds!
- Thread starter SigmasonicX
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It's also a game where the basis of the ruleset came from about 30 pages of Manga, most of which was devoted to drawing different monsters.
The fact that it's still really popular nearly 20 years later is a testament to something
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
That there's room for competition and that anime sells products.
Joe Molotov
Member
Dunkles Turtok is gonna be my MTG name when I make the Pro Tour.
charlequin
Banned
Either they found a trademark registration for it and this is real or they're just basing it on DOTP in which case it's bullshit.
I read this much less as a payoff and much more as a reminder to the folks at home that they set up this "unexpected consequences" plotline so when it's important to something two or three years from now it doesn't seem like it's completely out of left field.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
More blue warriors would be sick.
Fixed. We're all thinking it.
They've considered them- I don't think that's the way to go.
Fastland duals and legendary duals would be better at fixing Legacy's issues imo.
GamerKingFaiz
Member
Fire and Dice is awarding a pack per win for not playing Eldrazi at their upcoming Modern GPT.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Legendary duals feel like they're inevitable. It's just a matter of finding the right Standard (or appropriate supplemental set) to print them into.
charlequin
Banned
I'm saying the argument "it had a title card in DOTP 2014!" is worthless. Obviously either the theory is wrong or right, lol.
So since we're talking Legacy and therefore it's easy to add non-Standard cards to it, I've been thinking for a while about how plausible it would be to create a new set of lands that, instead of trying to be worse than original duals by the smallest possible margin, just tried to be as good as them but with a different design. Like, just to get a first estimate of over/under, how does this:
Way Better Horizon Canopy
Land - Plains Forest
(T: Add W or G.)
When ~ ETB, you lose 1 life.
1, T, Sac: Draw a card.
compare in power level to Savannah?
blindrocket
Member
So I came across this yesterday looking through cards that my friend gave me...
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
a fetchable cantrip are you positively insane?
Giant Panda
Member
I'd say at least make it shock yourself.
shrapnelmagnet
Member
Awesome. I remember when I first start playing a couple years ago and was going through cards like crazy on Gatherer and seeing Moat. I thought, "Man, what a neat card. I'll have to remember that one."
Eventually, I discovered TCGPlayer.
SigmasonicX
Member
As a heads up, that image is huge as hell.
charlequin
Banned
Well I do want things people might run even over the original duals...
Yeah.
Anyway, the point is less that design (which is probably terrible) and more just the idea that they could print duals that actually compete with the originals rather than just trying to be not-too-much-worse.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I have this better solution that involves taking 10 cards off of the Reserved List
Would love if they did this but would love a heads up haha
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
How is Miracle even a 5 on the Storm Scale? Am I the only one that thinks "look what I got off the tooooop" mechanics need to die in a fucken fire?
Terminus is fun as hell
charlequin
Banned
Because they haven't actually tried to bring it back yet so Development can tell them to go to hell like they did with Infect.
It was pretty clear that they left a lot of extra design space with miracle the first go 'round just in case it came back. I feel like permanents with Miracle might be a little more interesting; especially if they have riders based on how they were played.
Angel of Top Decks 3WW
Creature - Angel
Miracle WW
Flying
When ~ enters the battlefield, gain life equal to the amount of mana spent to cast it.
3/3
Phenomenon Array 2UU
Enchantment
Miracle U
~ enters the battlefield with X durdle counters where X is the amount of mana spent to cast it.
Remove a durdle counter: Tap target creature.
2U: Draw a card, then discard a card.
Angel of Top Decks 3WW
Creature - Angel
Miracle WW
Flying
When ~ enters the battlefield, gain life equal to the amount of mana spent to cast it.
3/3
Phenomenon Array 2UU
Enchantment
Miracle U
~ enters the battlefield with X durdle counters where X is the amount of mana spent to cast it.
Remove a durdle counter: Tap target creature.
2U: Draw a card, then discard a card.
For the record, I'm not a big fan of miracle, but from a design standpoint, I think it's an interesting mechanic to work with.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I mean sure design space exists for Miracle, but its not a mechanic that should exist in a world where the game is played by humans subject to tilt. Accentuating the parts of the game that piss people off is fucking stupid.
Anyone that gets tilted by a miracle card would get tilted by a top deck non-miracle card so yeah, not buying that.
If Brian Kibler can lose a high level match with a lot on the like to miracle and still be composed about it then no one has any right to rage other than being a baby.
http://youtu.be/MRMWnwyf2rE
If Brian Kibler can lose a high level match with a lot on the like to miracle and still be composed about it then no one has any right to rage other than being a baby.
http://youtu.be/MRMWnwyf2rE
And then the second time.
And then the third time.
And then the fourth time because Wizards made a mechanic that requires players to act against their motor memory.
charlequin
Banned
An abundance of top deck reveal effects is miserable on its own so I'm not sure what would be a good answer here.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
This is a horrible argument for a lot of reasons, primarily that when someone topdecks a good card, unless they explicitly tell you (or their hand was empty and they immediately cast it), it’s basically hidden from the other player. Moreover, Magic is mostly played by people who play it for fun, not Brian Kibler. Does Aaron Forsythe (head developer, standing right behind Kibler) look like he's thinking "wow what a great mechanic!" Hell does Brian look "composed"? Really? Does LSV? No, because Miracle is bullshit. Opponents topdecking shit is infuriating to begin with, which is fine because its hidden - mechanics that reward your opponent for topdecking shit beyond the card being good in and of itself is horrible game design.
shrapnelmagnet
Member
After watching a healthy amount of Legacy Opens (which I do miss) I came to loathe Miracles. And that's often not even true top-decking. I don't mind control decks, but I could watch Miracles lose all day and be happy.
I know who Aaron Forsythe is, I've been playing Magic for way longer than you. I also disagree with the notion that you never know when someone top decks a good card because there are lines of play in most game states where you have to play optimally and assume the opponent doesn't have something and if they're skilled they would almost in all certainty play the card if they had it.
Brian at worst is annoyed or frustrated but he's not tilted and I have never seen someone get so pissed at a one time mechanic. I know angry is in your name but you sound like you have so many issues with the game lately I'm not sure why you continue playing. Do you expect to win every game you play? Do you not expect variance in a card game?
divisionbyzorro
Member
Losing to a topdeck is like losing to a half court buzzer beater.
Losing to a topdecked Miracle is like losing to a half court buzzer beater. Then the guy who shot it spits in your face, your girlfriend leaves you for him, they replay the entire event on Sportscenter and again on the Today show the next morning.
Losing to a topdecked Miracle is like losing to a half court buzzer beater. Then the guy who shot it spits in your face, your girlfriend leaves you for him, they replay the entire event on Sportscenter and again on the Today show the next morning.
Agreed. Miracles are a terrible mechanic, and one of the many reasons Avacyn Restored is the worst set in recent history.
No idea how such an obvious feel-bad mechanic made it through development once.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Fateseal is miserable Jace +2 is the real dealbreaker with JTMS
Oh sorry, I didn't realize I needed to put a '/s' tag in my post lol
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Point still stands lol. Need to get my sarcasm detector checked out though.
Fatesealing sucks. No question.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Dude. It's Grimace. He is tilting so hard at Magic right now he's about to sell off his collection, grow a weird beard and move to the Appalachians. Between him and Charlequins hate-boner for Avacyn Restored, you're outnumbered ITT.
#TeamAVRWasAlrightWithMe
divisionbyzorro
Member
Avacyn Restored did give us Angel of Glory's Rise, which was the backbone of my favorite Standard deck ever. So it does have that going for it.
Avacyn Restored had a lot of cool cards. Restoration Angel, Grislebrand, Avacyn, the Powerpuff Girls, Cavern of Souls, Cloudshift, Silverblade Paladin, Vexing Devil, Deadeye Navigator, Misthollow Griffin, Desolate Lighthouse, Tamiyo, etc.
It was just a really bad limited format.
It was just a really bad limited format.
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