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[Firemind]

I mean they printed Chandra Ablaze and JTMS in the same block.

 

[Angry Grimace]

If you blink a double face planeswalker in its planeswalker side, it's the planeswalker that enters the battlefield isn't it?

No. Cards always enter the battlefield face-up. The abilities that flip the walkers make them enter transformed because the abilities say to do that.

 

["God's Beard!"]

My top spoiled cards so far:

1. World Breaker
2. Kozilek's Return
3. Chandra, Flamecaller
4. Oath of Nissa
5. Oath of Gideon
6. Reckless Bushwacker
7. Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
8. Reality Smasher
9. Spacial Contortion
10. Crumbling Vestige

 

[Angry Grimace]

1. Goblin Dark-Dwellers
2. Kozilek's Return
3. Reality Smasher
4. Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
5. Goblin Dark-Dwellers
6. Mirrorpool
7. Flaying Tendrils
8. Goblin Dark-Dwellers
9. Goblin Dark-Dwellers
10. Goblin Dark-Dwellers

I wish they had done something more interesting with Kozilek himself rather than make him compete directly with Ulamog.

 

[A Serious Man]

Chandra will be one of the centerpieces of the grixis control deck I'll never win a match with.

 

[OnPoint]

My personal top 5:

1. Reality Smasher
2. Kozilek's Return
3. Nissa's Oath
4. Mirrorpool
5. Kozilek

 

[Firemind]

Chandra will be one of the centerpieces of the grixis control deck I'll never win a match with.

Control decks never want to discard their hand though.

 

[Toxi]

I mean they printed Chandra Ablaze and JTMS in the same block.

At this point Chandra being shitty and Jace being ridiculous might as well be their mechanical identities.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Control decks never want to discard their hand though.

We need Notion Thief back so we can cause flipped tables.

 

[WanderingWind]

Topped spoiled cards
1. Shadows over Innistrad logo
2. Not a goddamn thing from this turd of a block.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Because most people who aren't Mark Rosewater understand what made people like the Eldrazi.

... They didn't fix the things you were complaining about (too small, big ones not impressive), though.

 

[kirblar]

... They didn't fix the things you were complaining about (too small, big ones not impressive), though.

No, they did. Making colorless mana the shtick gives them a whole different identity axis they can play off of in ways that make it work.

That's why it needed to come first. Mark's attempt was a half-assed nerfed copy of the RoE stuff done by a guy who doesn't like RoE and doesn't understand what people actually like about the set.

 

[Firemind]

At this point Chandra being shitty and Jace being ridiculous might as well be their mechanical identities.

For six mana, discard hand to draw three cards or discard a red card to Lighting Blast.

Vs.

Repeatable Brainstorm, fateseal, bounce for four mana.

Hm. Seems fair.

 

[A Serious Man]

Control decks never want to discard their hand though.

If you're comfortable enough with your hand and the board state to play her, her 0 isn't what you'll want to be doing anyway.

 

[OnPoint]

No, they did. Making colorless mana the shtick gives them a whole different identity axis they can play off of in ways that make it work.

That's why it needed to come first. Mark's attempt was a half-assed nerfed copy of the RoE stuff done by a guy who doesn't like RoE and doesn't understand what people actually like about the set.

I still hate the "people didn't like Annihilator so we can't do it again" line of thinking. The Eldrazi should inspire that feeling in people. That's why you fight to prevent them from casting them.

 

[Angry Grimace]

For six mana, discard hand to draw three cards or discard a red card to Lighting Blast.

Vs.

Repeatable Brainstorm, fateseal, bounce for four mana.

Hm. Seems fair.

At the very least you can at least argue that it was due to the relative inexperience of the design team in coming up with PW designs at that point.

I mean, that's not a good argument but you could make it

 

[OnPoint]

At the very least you can at least argue that it was due to the relative inexperience of the design team in coming up with PW designs at that point.

I mean, that's not a good argument but you could make it

Sure.

But then you look at Chandra and Jace in Origins, many years later.

And see that the problem persists, inexperience back then or not.

 

[Firemind]

At the very least you can at least argue that it was due to the relative inexperience of the design team in coming up with PW designs at that point.

I mean, that's not a good argument but you could make it

At that point in time, she's the most expensive PW behind Nicol Bolas and all her abilities require you to discard cards. Like, what?

 

[Angry Grimace]

Sure.

But then you look at Chandra and Jace in Origins, many years later.

And see that the problem persists, inexperience back then or not.

That's mostly because red sucks and Jace's mechanical identity is all of the broken things about blue.

 

[kirblar]

I still hate the "people didn't like Annihilator so we can't do it again" line of thinking. The Eldrazi should inspire that feeling in people. That's why you fight to prevent them from casting them.

Capturing the "feel" was important. Capturing the relative power level? Not so much. They did neither.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Topped spoiled cards
1. Shadows over Innistrad logo
2. Not a goddamn thing from this turd of a block.

But Doomsday on a stick!

 

[Toxi]

Even when they try to make Jace shitty (Jace, Memory Adept), he ends up being hilariously broken in limited and fringe usable in standard.

 

[Giant Panda]

Power level seems much higher in Oath than BFZ. To me that says that this block wasn't intended as a power-level nerf block, they just messed up BFZ (probably because development was busy fixing design's stuff and so they played it safe on most cards power level).

 

[kirblar]

Even when they try to make Jace shitty (Jace, Memory Adept), he ends up being hilariously broken in limited and fringe usable in standard.

If you put him in a (normal) cube, you are a bad designer.

Power level seems much higher in Oath than BFZ. To me that says that this block wasn't intended as a power-level nerf block, they just messed up BFZ (probably because development was busy fixing design's stuff and so they played it safe on most cards power level.

Ian Duke made an Erik Lauer set that's actually at a higher avg power level than most Erik Lauer sets.

 

[red13th]

I like the Volkan Baga elf that grows with lands and Kalitas, those are the two big cube worthy cards IMO. Plus the manlands which are mediocre in comparison to the best ones from WWK but still good (the elf seems nice with Needle Spires!).

 

[DrArchon]

Oh man, new Chandra looks so shitty. If I'm gonna pay 6 mana for planeswalker they better be able to defend themselves, and making tokens that can't block for her and only killing creatures by killing herself isn't gonna cut it. There's gotta be a way better card for red midrange than a split card that's "6 power creature with haste and no evasion" and "Deal 4 to every creature".

 

[kirblar]

Oh man, new Chandra looks so shitty. If I'm gonna pay 6 mana for planeswalker they better be able to defend themselves, and making tokens that can't block for her and only killing creatures by killing herself isn't gonna cut it. There's gotta be a way better card for red midrange than a split card that's "6 power creature with haste and no evasion" and "Deal 4 to every creature".

....that third ability is really good on defense?

If you're having to -4 her immediately, something's gone wrong.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I like the Volkan Baga elf that grows with lands and Kalitas, those are the two big cube worthy cards IMO. Plus the manlands which are mediocre in comparison to the best ones from WWK but still good (the elf seems nice with Needle Spires!).

The problem with Kalitas is that every time I say his name I think about Hotel California

....that third ability is really good on defense?

If you're having to -4 her immediately, something's gone wrong.

That wasn't true for Elspeth, though. For 6 mana, I'd like to think you could burn up the Wingmate Rocs of the world and still start throwing 3/1s at your opponent.

 

[Lazy vs Crazy]

Even when they try to make Jace shitty (Jace, Memory Adept), he ends up being hilariously broken in limited and fringe usable in standard.

Living Guildpact is trash, at least.

 

[Firemind]

I mean, Pyroclasm at six mana is not really what you want. Either you're already overrun by weenies or they're too big to kill. Ob Nixilis is so much better it's hilarious.

 

[WanderingWind]

The problem with Kalitas is that every time I say his name I think about Hotel California

Oh good, it's not just me.

 

[kirblar]

I mean, Pyroclasm at six mana is not really what you want. Either you're already overrun by weenies or they're too big to kill. Ob Nixilis is so much better it's hilarious.

Whynotboth.gif

 

[OnPoint]

Whynotboth.gif

Suicide Rakdos.

I like it.

 

[Firemind]

Whynotboth.gif

Because they're RR and BB, but you also want UU for DTT. Believe me, I tried to make Grixis control work, but even with today's broken mana bases, you really just want to splash colours, not play a bunch of differently double coloured cards.

 

[kirblar]

Because they're RR and BB, but you also want UU for DTT. Believe me, I tried to make Grixis control work, but even with today's broken mana bases, you really just want to splash colours, not play a bunch of differently double coloured cards.

Oath of Nissa.

 

[Firemind]

but then i have to play green

 

[Wulfric]

Power level seems much higher in Oath than BFZ. To me that says that this block wasn't intended as a power-level nerf block, they just messed up BFZ (probably because development was busy fixing design's stuff and so they played it safe on most cards power level).

I'm getting the impression WotC ran into another Born of the Gods/Journey Into Nyx situation. They took a couple things destined for BFZ and switched them into the design file for OGW due to power level concerns. Either that, or a lack of playtesting time after the switch to the two block model might have the same end result. We'll know what happened for sure once the block is finished and they start releasing the postmortem articles.

Sylvan Advocate is great. I don't think it can turn standard elves into a thing though. :/

 

["God's Beard!"]

5-color Superfriends

5 Creatures
4 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer

10 Planeswalkers
4 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
3 Sarkhan Unbroken
3 Chandra Flamecaller

19 Spells
4 Oath of Nissa
4 Silkwrap
3 Painful Truths
4 Oath of Gideon
4 Crackling Doom

26 Lands

Sideboard
3 Radiant Flames
1 Exert Influence
2 Planar Outburst
1 Dragonlord Silumgar
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
4 Duress
2 Infinite Obliteration
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited

 

[charlequin]

What, show the titans on one card and the rest of the walkers just shooting off panel? That seems kind of dumb.

I think there's two ways to execute this concept well.

One is just a traditional panorama with carefully mirrored art. The green one has Jace and Nissa on the left spellcasting on a giant Ulamog on the right; the red one has Kozilek on the left being blown up by Gideon and Chandra. The mirrored composition would make it clear they go together.

The other way, if it's vital to include both titans on every card, is to do an angled composition that you flip. Put the titans in a line then put the camera so they're at a 45 degree angle (Kozilek in the far right foreground, Ulamog in the middle-ish further to the background) with Jace and Nissa on the left; then the same thing from the opposite angle (so Ulamog in front) with Chandra and Gideon on the other.

[IMG]http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z268/Jhriad/tumblr_m46wriuf7Z1rr31b3o1_500.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z268/Jhriad/oRaAaQE9_0104142218241.jpg[/IMG]

C'mon dude. I've certainly talked up the best of old MTG art plenty of times, but comparing two of the best 5-10 artists who have ever worked on the game to junky art from the latest set is absurd. There was plenty of this stuff back in the day too:

I still hate the "people didn't like Annihilator so we can't do it again" line of thinking.

I mean, the thing about annihilator is that it's terrifying, but it's also a huge sledgehammer and has a boring and repetitive play pattern once you've been up against it once. You have to warp the entire environment (as ROE did) to let it work, and it makes the different giant eldrazi all play very similarly. Just repeating it on everything would have sucked.

The thing to recognize is that you can make giant eldrazi that feel on-theme without it. Newlamog feels entirely right. Oblivion Sower feels like one in the bigger context. There's like four too-generic colorless eldrazi in BFZ (Breaker of Armies, Desolation Twin, Eldrazi Devastator, Endless One) which you could make feel right by giving them all ETB exile effects. Like: I agree with Rosewater that the necessary challenge to solve is to do Eldrazi without Annihilator, I just don't think he got it (and I largely agree with kirblar that the Oath team did an overall better job.)

 

[Angry Grimace]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";191325881]5-color Superfriends

5 Creatures
4 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer

10 Planeswalkers
4 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
3 Sarkhan Unbroken
3 Chandra Flamecaller

19 Spells
4 Oath of Nissa
4 Silkwrap
3 Painful Truths
4 Oath of Gideon
4 Crackling Doom

26 Lands

Sideboard
3 Radiant Flames
1 Exert Influence
2 Planar Outburst
1 Dragonlord Silumgar
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
4 Duress
2 Infinite Obliteration
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited[/QUOTE]

I started laughing when I got to Crackling Doom when I really should have started laughing when I got to Sarkhan Unbroken.

 

["God's Beard!"]

I started laughing when I got to Crackling Doom when I really should have started laughing when I got to Sarkhan Unbroken.

don't let dreams be dreams

 

[ultron87]

Like, it won't be good, but the possibility of pitching Hedron Alignment to Force of Will to protect another part of your combo and get one into exile is the best.

 

[Joe Molotov]

C'mon dude. I've certainly talked up the best of old MTG art plenty of times, but comparing two of the best 5-10 artists who have ever worked on the game to junky art from the latest set is absurd. There was plenty of this stuff back in the day too:

For a return to Shakespeare flavor text, I will keep watch.

 

[kirblar]

Like, it won't be good, but the possibility of pitching Hedron Alignment to Force of Will to protect another part of your combo and get one into exile is the best.

How about countering your own in order to get the GY/Exile pieces at once.

 

[Neoweee]

I think there's two ways to execute this concept well.

One is just a traditional panorama with carefully mirrored art. The green one has Jace and Nissa on the left spellcasting on a giant Ulamog on the right; the red one has Kozilek on the left being blown up by Gideon and Chandra. The mirrored composition would make it clear they go together.

The other way, if it's vital to include both titans on every card, is to do an angled composition that you flip. Put the titans in a line then put the camera so they're at a 45 degree angle (Kozilek in the far right foreground, Ulamog in the middle-ish further to the background) with Jace and Nissa on the left; then the same thing from the opposite angle (so Ulamog in front) with Chandra and Gideon on the other.

We'll have to see how it is executed. There are still two more cards to be shown in the group. There might be a parallax effect on the Titans that we haven't seen yet.

 

[El Topo]

We're hating on classic Giant Strength art now? Not cool.

Spoiler

Boy did some of the artwork suck back in the days.

 

[OnPoint]

No doubt there was some awful artwork back in the day. Giant Strength is just one of many. I'd say the floor for the quality of art we get these days is higher. But I'd say the ceiling is lower as well.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Like, it won't be good, but the possibility of pitching Hedron Alignment to Force of Will to protect another part of your combo and get one into exile is the best.

4 Leyline of the Void
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Entomb
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Enlightened Tutor
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Monastery Mentor
4 Hedron Alignment
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Relic of Progenitus

20 lands


lol

 

[darkside31337]

Just wait like 4 years from now when it finds its Vampire Hexmage equivalent. Buy em in bulk for 50 cents a piece now!

 

[Angry Grimace]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";191332979]4 Leyline of the Void
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Entomb
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Enlightened Tutor
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Monastery Mentor
4 Hedron Alignment
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Relic of Progenitus

20 lands


lol[/QUOTE]

So you just lose to Duress