Something tells me having the scions to ramp is useful.
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Magic: the Gathering - Oath o/t Gatewatch |OT| Look again, the mana is now diamonds!
- Thread starter SigmasonicX
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And chump. It's really important.
edit: I'm getting the feeling from MaRo's replies on twitter that something else was going on behind the scenes besides the 2-block change
edit2: confirmed, something big went down that isn't public yet.
SigmasonicX
Member
Dazzling Reflection - This is a neat effect, and it seems to be one variant of the "reverse lifelink" idea from earlier in design. To explain, an article mentioned that before they reached the idea of using C costs to represent Kozilek, they investigated having it change keywords to be their opposite.
Expedition Raptor - Wow, this is complete junk. Compare to Supply-Line Cranes, where you more often put the counter on the creature, and you can't even do that here.
Iona's Blessing - This aura seems very annoying for the enchanted creature. Also, Iona is mentioned but doesn't get a card?
Isolation Zone - I didn't expect to see this effect at common anymore.
Stoneforge Acolyte - Another example of "card draw" in white, though I suppose this is more like a restricted library search.
Wall of Resurgence - This seems really good, getting both a good blocker and an on-cost attacker.
Cultivator Drone - At first, I was wondering why the part about using the mana to "pay a cost that contains C" was included when there are no colored cards that do that, but then I realized that it refers to the triggered abilities you have to pay for.
Slip Through Space - This seems good.
Ancient Crab - I find it amusing that we're following the story of a crab that was just chilling at the Sea Gate and decided to wander elsewhere when it got destroyed.
Roiling Waters - Oh hey, the finally made a "super cantrip". It also has the odd feature that it doesn't get countered if the two creatures become invalid targets, since the player is targeted too.
Essence Depleter - I can't say I'm a fan of these plain flavor texts that just straightforwardly present a story event.
Havoc Sower - I just want to say how it's interesting how a boost of +2/+1 has a specific meaning in Magic, referring to Unholy Strength.
Kozilek's Translator - I find the name of this creature amusing.
Oblivion Strike - This seems quite good for common removal.
Visions of Brutality - Another example of the "reverse lifelink" from early design.
Grasp of Darkness - I didn't expect to see this reprint.
Tar Snare - Rather odd that we have this in the same set as Grasp of Darkness.
Untamed Hunger - This is definitely a card designed to be reprinted. Also, another example of an Unholy Strength callback.
Consuming Sinkhole - I think you guys are underestimating this in Limited, though it's still definitely a sideboard card. It's an interesting design.
Immobilizer Eldrazi - This is a neat effect. I guess the flavor is that it's making everyone's butts too heavy.
Devour in Flames - Maaaybe playable in Standard? Also, this is the first uncommon card to reference planeswalkers, I believe.
Kazuul's Toll Collector - Hey, they remembered that red can attach equipment for free sometimes! Also, another old character being referenced who doesn't get a card.
Press into Service - I'm surprised we're getting another Act of Treason effect in a small set.
Tears of Valakut - Valakut and the Sea Gate were an OTP. Who knew? Anyway, I don't think there are enough big flying creatures in Limited or Constructed for this to see play. Maybe after rotation?
Elemental Uprising - The wording here is interesting, in that the "must block" aspect is clearly there just to remind the player that you can use this to block. EDIT: Derp, it says it "must be blocked", not "must block".
Harvester Troll - Sacrifice something to turn a 2/3 for 4 into a 4/5? How about no.
Natural State - Could see Modern play?
Nissa's Judgment - It looks like green can have its creatures deal direct damage to creatures without fighting after all.
Captain's Claws - Seems like a good equipment card.
General comments:
* Support looks like junk.
* Cohort seems dull, but it might help in grindy matches.
* I'm really surprised that red didn't get any ritual effects, and that green didn't get any mana producers besides Scions.
* Green still looks pretty bad for Limited.
* The equipment available doesn't seem worth using the equipment-matters cards.
EDIT:
Since you guys never link things,
Why Ulamog came first
Big change in how they made Magic
Expedition Raptor - Wow, this is complete junk. Compare to Supply-Line Cranes, where you more often put the counter on the creature, and you can't even do that here.
Iona's Blessing - This aura seems very annoying for the enchanted creature. Also, Iona is mentioned but doesn't get a card?
Isolation Zone - I didn't expect to see this effect at common anymore.
Stoneforge Acolyte - Another example of "card draw" in white, though I suppose this is more like a restricted library search.
Wall of Resurgence - This seems really good, getting both a good blocker and an on-cost attacker.
Cultivator Drone - At first, I was wondering why the part about using the mana to "pay a cost that contains C" was included when there are no colored cards that do that, but then I realized that it refers to the triggered abilities you have to pay for.
Slip Through Space - This seems good.
Ancient Crab - I find it amusing that we're following the story of a crab that was just chilling at the Sea Gate and decided to wander elsewhere when it got destroyed.
Roiling Waters - Oh hey, the finally made a "super cantrip". It also has the odd feature that it doesn't get countered if the two creatures become invalid targets, since the player is targeted too.
Essence Depleter - I can't say I'm a fan of these plain flavor texts that just straightforwardly present a story event.
Havoc Sower - I just want to say how it's interesting how a boost of +2/+1 has a specific meaning in Magic, referring to Unholy Strength.
Kozilek's Translator - I find the name of this creature amusing.
Oblivion Strike - This seems quite good for common removal.
Visions of Brutality - Another example of the "reverse lifelink" from early design.
Grasp of Darkness - I didn't expect to see this reprint.
Tar Snare - Rather odd that we have this in the same set as Grasp of Darkness.
Untamed Hunger - This is definitely a card designed to be reprinted. Also, another example of an Unholy Strength callback.
Consuming Sinkhole - I think you guys are underestimating this in Limited, though it's still definitely a sideboard card. It's an interesting design.
Immobilizer Eldrazi - This is a neat effect. I guess the flavor is that it's making everyone's butts too heavy.
Devour in Flames - Maaaybe playable in Standard? Also, this is the first uncommon card to reference planeswalkers, I believe.
Kazuul's Toll Collector - Hey, they remembered that red can attach equipment for free sometimes! Also, another old character being referenced who doesn't get a card.
Press into Service - I'm surprised we're getting another Act of Treason effect in a small set.
Tears of Valakut - Valakut and the Sea Gate were an OTP. Who knew? Anyway, I don't think there are enough big flying creatures in Limited or Constructed for this to see play. Maybe after rotation?
Elemental Uprising - The wording here is interesting, in that the "must block" aspect is clearly there just to remind the player that you can use this to block. EDIT: Derp, it says it "must be blocked", not "must block".
Harvester Troll - Sacrifice something to turn a 2/3 for 4 into a 4/5? How about no.
Natural State - Could see Modern play?
Nissa's Judgment - It looks like green can have its creatures deal direct damage to creatures without fighting after all.
Captain's Claws - Seems like a good equipment card.
General comments:
* Support looks like junk.
* Cohort seems dull, but it might help in grindy matches.
* I'm really surprised that red didn't get any ritual effects, and that green didn't get any mana producers besides Scions.
* Green still looks pretty bad for Limited.
* The equipment available doesn't seem worth using the equipment-matters cards.
EDIT:
Since you guys never link things,
Why Ulamog came first
Big change in how they made Magic
The removal is fine in every color except for green. Black's removal was subpar for the color, but still solid overall. Small sets tend to have better removal because you're less likely to see any individual card vs. a triple-draft format.
that flavour text
So Ob loses eh? But does he die? The cards don't seem to say...
Wonder what it was...
Joe Molotov
Member
Ob Nixilis: "I've prepared for every eventuality, except for fire. This is a good plan, it will work."
Infinite Stars
Member
If we're going nuts like that, you need to reach turn 5 to go off. Assuming you have 5 lands on turn 5, you'd have 3-4 cards in hand. Assuming you hit every turn and curve out, you'd have dealt 12? Damage by turn 5. For maximum laughter, add Titan's Strength/Defiant Strike/that one Red Haste card.
Jeskai Tokens/Aggro is looking hella sweet to me.
Jeskai Tokens/Aggro is looking hella sweet to me.
LuciusAxelrod
Member
Unfortunately, copying a spell is not the same as casting it, so you'd only get one prowess trigger rather than four. You'd still draw a bunch of cards, so you could get enough to get more triggers, but if you play those cards in that order then you don't even have a guaranteed kill on turn 5 if your opponent does nothing for the entire game.
The promo was more likely because Serum Visions need a reprint and promos require a LOT less lead time than a set like MM. It was left out of MM2015 so that if they felt the need to ban it, they wouldn't have just finalized design or gone to print with a banned card in the set.
Giant Panda
Member
It really would make zero sense for Inquisition to show up in BFZ block as its lack of devoid clashes mechanically with the block. It needs a reprint, and should have been in MM2, but they made the right call not putting it here.
The promos were cards not in MM15. It was likely deliberate.
Imperfected
Member
"Bullets, my only weakness!"
darkside31337
Tomodachi wa Mahou
Green somehow seems even worse for limited now. Feel like they had absolutely no idea what the hell to do with green as a color this block.
Shuggananas
Banned
I liked doing black/blue devoid with processing and ingesting but without good processors it's pretty poop
red white ally is nice too imo
red white ally is nice too imo
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Ain't too proud to admit when I'm wrong I already know what I'm playing:
Deck: Oath GR Eldrazi Ramp
//Creatures
4 Hangarback Walker
2 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
4 Jaddi Offshoot
2 World Breaker
2 Dragonlord Atarka
3 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
//Planeswalker
3 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
//Spells
4 Explosive Vegetation
3 Warping Wail
4 Nissa's Pilgrimage
3 Kozilek's Return
//Lands
9 Forest
1 Wastes
1 Mountain
1 Haven of the Spirit Dragon
4 Sanctum of Ugin
4 Shrine of the Forsaken Gods
4 Wooded Foothills
//Sideboard
1 Den Protector
1 World Breaker
1 Void Winnower
2 Den Protector
2 Rending Volley
4 Winds of Qal Sisma
1 Dragonlord Atarka
1 Kozilek's Return
2 Roast
Display deck statistics
The problem I see is that Nissa dies to Kozilek's Return, but I don't really know what else to put there. I guess Den Protector? Thoughts?
I also don't know why everyone plays 4 Wooded Foothills, it actually makes no sense to since you want to cast the Explosive Veggies in top deck mode to thin the deck but you can't thin out the Foothills. I mean, I guess you do kind of want to get red online for Return.
Deck: Oath GR Eldrazi Ramp
//Creatures
4 Hangarback Walker
2 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
4 Jaddi Offshoot
2 World Breaker
2 Dragonlord Atarka
3 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
//Planeswalker
3 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
//Spells
4 Explosive Vegetation
3 Warping Wail
4 Nissa's Pilgrimage
3 Kozilek's Return
//Lands
9 Forest
1 Wastes
1 Mountain
1 Haven of the Spirit Dragon
4 Sanctum of Ugin
4 Shrine of the Forsaken Gods
4 Wooded Foothills
//Sideboard
1 Den Protector
1 World Breaker
1 Void Winnower
2 Den Protector
2 Rending Volley
4 Winds of Qal Sisma
1 Dragonlord Atarka
1 Kozilek's Return
2 Roast
Display deck statisticsThe problem I see is that Nissa dies to Kozilek's Return, but I don't really know what else to put there. I guess Den Protector? Thoughts?
I also don't know why everyone plays 4 Wooded Foothills, it actually makes no sense to since you want to cast the Explosive Veggies in top deck mode to thin the deck but you can't thin out the Foothills. I mean, I guess you do kind of want to get red online for Return.
"God's Beard!"
Member
It really is that good.
If you're playing Kozilek, Warping Wail and Hangarback Walker then you can't really play zero copies of Hedron Archive. It's too good with those cards. It's basically Explosive Vegetation except the lands come into play untapped.
I don't think you need the Dragon anymore. He doesn't trigger either side of the Sanctum or Kozilek's Return's flashback and you're a little short on actual ramp.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Wow, I didn't actually look at the price for IoK.
"God's Beard!"
Member
More fuel for Warping Wail from /magicTCG:
"And, for what it's worth, if a Goblins player is facing down an equipped creature that can't be exiled to Wail, they can produce the Eldrazi spawn, block, and sacrifice it before damage. It prevents lifegain from Batterskull, charge counters being put on Jitte, and it can actually block a creature equipped with Sword of Fire and Ice."
"And, for what it's worth, if a Goblins player is facing down an equipped creature that can't be exiled to Wail, they can produce the Eldrazi spawn, block, and sacrifice it before damage. It prevents lifegain from Batterskull, charge counters being put on Jitte, and it can actually block a creature equipped with Sword of Fire and Ice."
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
This is why I ate my shit and bought Inquisition at $9. I mean I got my first two by buying the Modern Event deck that had a 2 Inquisition of Kozilek, 3 Path to Exile, a Sword of Feast & Famine and an Elspeth in it. I have no fucking clue why they aren't making more of those products.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
That's because its better than Thoughtseize and there's actually less of them around than Thoughtseize due to Theros.
Remember when they were super committed to Modern reprints and then it turned out that meant "we'll print thoughtseize once and then 10 dollar packs of mostly shit and expensive stuff at mythic"
No. I don't know how you can say that.
It was deliberately not in MM15 so that they could do a promo. This was almost certainly decided when MM15 was being made.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
It doens't help that they've got Maro out there spewing horseshit like
That's because the reprints in Battle for Zendikar were Felidar Sovereign and Dragonmaster Outcast you dumb fuck. I really hope they aren't actually expecting credit for reprinting a 4 dollar uncommon in Sylvan Scrying that's used in exactly one deck
That's because the reprints in Battle for Zendikar were Felidar Sovereign and Dragonmaster Outcast you dumb fuck. I really hope they aren't actually expecting credit for reprinting a 4 dollar uncommon in Sylvan Scrying that's used in exactly one deck
He the answers another one about this set not having reprints and how the ones they did reprint in BfZ weren't well received so they are "playing around with the idea" or some such.
When the two cards that are reprints have casual appeal at best from the last set. Felder was 10 dollars but is an edh card and dragon master is the other.
Ah beaten.
It was deliberately not in MM2015. I never argued that they just magically forgot to put it in there or something. The turnaround on commissioning the art for a promo, printing it, and shipping it out is considerably shorter than the lead required to properly design and develop a set, print it, etc. It's very possible it was left out of the set to hedge against the necessity of a Serum Visions ban while the set was in final development/at the printer.
These were actually good reprints, lol.
There is 0 chance of Visions getting banned? Why would you think that?
Maybe as casual cards, but he is talking about how reprints weren't well received. And the cards that are being discussed are specifically constructed playable such as inquisition and serum visions.
The last card that was reprinted in standard that had an effect on the price was what thoughtseize, and the allied fetches?
They're not well received because they didn't actually reprint cards that NEED reprints alongside them.
Do that, complaints vanish.
Banning Visions is an option if certain decks like get too consistent without just nuking the entire deck. There's a reason why Ponder and Preordain are banned. Even though Visions is worse it's conceivable that it could help make a degenerate deck too consistent. Keeping it out of MM2015 and just slotting it in for a Promo later in the year (or, later next year since that's when this decision was likely made) is an easy way to play it safe if they were worried about the necessity of a ban for the Fate Reforged B&R Update.
"God's Beard!"
Member
When do we get the next Modern banlist updates?
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";191643573]When do we get the next Modern banlist updates?[/QUOTE]
January 18th
Sell yo Primeval Titans
January 18th
Sell yo Primeval Titans
Rares aside, I think black may be the best color in this set.
Uncommons:
Essence Depleter - Drain ability
Havoc Sower - This is like the upgraded Sludge Crawler
Grasp of Darkenss - -4/-4 for BB is huge
Commons:
Kozilek's Shrieker - Free dmg or 2 for 1
Oblivion Strike - What? An unconditional exile creature card for 4cmc at common? And it's easy to splash for? High first pick.
Slaughter Drone - Deathtouch makes combats difficult.
Tar Snare - Removal/combat trick
Uncommons:
Essence Depleter - Drain ability
Havoc Sower - This is like the upgraded Sludge Crawler
Grasp of Darkenss - -4/-4 for BB is huge
Commons:
Kozilek's Shrieker - Free dmg or 2 for 1
Oblivion Strike - What? An unconditional exile creature card for 4cmc at common? And it's easy to splash for? High first pick.
Slaughter Drone - Deathtouch makes combats difficult.
Tar Snare - Removal/combat trick
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I find MTGS to be hilarious. Dudes angry about bans arguing that Cloudpost was preemptively banned.
Cloudpost is very close to the SUPER BANNED list if its not already on it. The guy who did those Unbanned Series videos did a video on it and it was busted as fuck.
Cloudpost is very close to the SUPER BANNED list if its not already on it. The guy who did those Unbanned Series videos did a video on it and it was busted as fuck.
divisionbyzorro
Member
There's zero reason to unban Cloupost with Tron in the format. If you want absurd mana ramp, you can do that.
Also, yes, it's super busted.
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