Support NeoGAF

["God's Beard!"]

This is the type of Standard list I'd like to use, my only concern is the deck eventually requiring Jace, which is far out of my budget.

I don't think it does, if it's any help. Maybe some weird sideboard plan, but I doubt it.

The fact that Jori En and Stormchaser Mage dodge Wild Slash, Kozilek's Return's front side and early Fiery Impulses has been pretty huge in my testing so far. And Dispel takes care of anything else you're worried about. The deck is quick, and it has combo finishes without the vulnerability of Atarka Red.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I miss being able to Bloodrush a Ghor-Clan Rampager onto a Fabled Hero with Brave the Elements backup.

 

["God's Beard!"]

I miss being able to Bloodrush a Ghor-Clan Rampager onto a Fabled Hero with Brave the Elements backup.

The first FNM I ever won was beating that deck with Sphinx's Revelation Esper Control. Deck was super sweet. Stupid Voice of Resurgence messing everything up.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Supreme Verdict is the straw that broke the camel's back and why you can't have nice things re: Wrath effects.

 

[kirblar]

I miss being able to Bloodrush a Ghor-Clan Rampager onto a Fabled Hero with Brave the Elements backup.

Supreme Verdict is the straw that broke the camel's back and why you can't have nice things re: Wrath effects.

Yup. Verdict led to the former which led to "this is fucking stupid" which led to 5cc Wraths.

 

[WanderingWind]

Don't suppose anybody here collects Japanese versions of cards? Dude forgot to tell me the Master of the Pearl Tridents were in Japanese. I don't want to pimp out my deck, I want it in plain ol English.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

She has tubes leading from the back armor to her chest and shoulder.

Why wasn't Chandra at Izzet?

Also looks stupid as fuck and bars any explanation.

Only her hair and stuff around her is burning so what function does the suit have? Fabric and metals rarely get harder when under heat. If it's an oxygen supply where is she storing it.

 

[Santiako]

Why wasn't Chandra at Izzet?

Also looks stupid as fuck and bars any explanation.

Only her hair and stuff around her is burning so what function does the suit have? Fabric and metals rarely get harder when under heat. If it's an oxygen supply where is she storing it.

It's generic steampunk outfit #6, complete with goggles, unnecessary metal parts and copper colouring.

 

[OnPoint]

Izzet = Steampunk Guild
Chandra = Steampunk style

Izzet =/= Chandra

Wizards = No clue what to do with Chandra

 

[Ozigizo]

Don't suppose anybody here collects Japanese versions of cards? Dude forgot to tell me the Master of the Pearl Tridents were in Japanese. I don't want to pimp out my deck, I want it in plain ol English.

Some people value them more in certain circles, also depends on the card. Staple lands tend to go for more if they're foreign.

 

[kirblar]

Elaine Chase (Brand Director) with a super thorough explanation of the current status of the Kozilek/Judge thing and what happened: https://t.co/V5eZCpoMbN

She and Helene are so much better at this PR thing.

 

[shrapnelmagnet]

It's important for the player coming from near zero knowledge to learn 3 major things: permanents and their interactions, phases of turns, and combat. Green stomps does that without much complication. At least 2/3 of all the creature should be vanilla, but vary the power and toughness greatly.

I agree with this and the bolded specifically. It's why I think the Duels games are so good for beginners. It really helps you step through the turn.

In my experience with new players and even when I started playing 3 years ago, Combat was by far the most difficult to grok. Multiple blockers always always always fucked me up - AKA I would make attacks without taking it into account and get blown out.

 

[WanderingWind]

Some people value them more in certain circles, also depends on the card. Staple lands tend to go for more if they're foreign.

I know, I'm hoping one of those fine folks resides here.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

It's generic steampunk outfit #6, complete with goggles, unnecessary metal parts and copper colouring.

yeah everything about chandra sadly is generic. Why couldn't they have made Koth the red Walker henceforth, his lands matter schtick was much better than Nissa's ever was imo,

Spoiler

and he's black

.

Izzet = Steampunk Guild
Chandra = Steampunk style

Izzet =/= Chandra

Wizards = No clue what to do with Chandra

Chandra at Izzet would have made so much more sense than Gideon at Boros, he's fricken opposed to pretty much anything involving burn.

 

[Ashodin]

Steampunk India is cool though. Niv-Mizzet would love Ghirapur.

So I think I fixed the wording on Grow Equally (now Equivalent Growth)

 

[OnPoint]

Steampunk India is cool though. Niv-Mizzet would love Ghirapur.

Another reason why Chandra should be red/blue. Also another reason why I think she's adopted.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Elaine Chase (Brand Director) with a super thorough explanation of the current status of the Kozilek/Judge thing and what happened: https://t.co/V5eZCpoMbN

She and Helene are so much better at this PR thing.

Nice to see that they're handling that situation better.
Now they just have to catch up on the proxy thing.

 

[ultron87]

Steampunk India is cool though. Niv-Mizzet would love Ghirapur.

So I think I fixed the wording on Grow Equally (now Equivalent Growth)

That still doesn't really work because of the same layers issue, where anything that sets p/t applies before anything that modifies. If it had something like +3/+1 applied to it it, that ability would just infinitely trigger. (Ie. 2/2 gets +3/+1 making it a 5/3, Equivalent Growth trigger and sets the base p/t to 3/3, but the +3/+1 still applies so it is a 6/4, ability triggers etc etc.)

 

[SigmasonicX]

Steampunk India is cool though. Niv-Mizzet would love Ghirapur.

So I think I fixed the wording on Grow Equally (now Equivalent Growth)

Now this is way too confusing for a common. Perhaps you should stick with something like "Target creature has base power and toughness 5/5 until end of turn."

 

[Ooccoo]

Yea NWO makes it so commons have to be simple.

 

[Yeef]

So I think I fixed the wording on Grow Equally (now Equivalent Growth)

You have to be careful with state triggers, because they can very easily create an infinite loop which just instantly draws the game. The way you have it worded now would create an infinite loop if the creature has a non-symmetrical power and/or toughness modifiers.
Example:

• 2/2 under the effects of Titan's Strength becomes a 5/3.
• Power is not equal to toughness, so the ability triggers and changes base power to 3, making it a 6/3.
• Power is not equal to toughness, so the ability triggers and changes base power to 3, making it a 6/3.
• Power is not equal to toughness, so the ability triggers and changes base power to 3, making it a 6/3... etc.

I'm not sure exactly how to make it work like you want it to, but it likely involves something along the lines of "target creature gets +X/+0 where X is it's toughness minus its power".

 

[Ashodin]

Clearly I can't get it to work the way I want it to, so I created a much simpler effect.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I'm not sure exactly how to make it work like you want it to, but it likely involves something along the lines of "target creature gets +X/+0 where X is it's toughness minus its power".

I was thinking something similar but that breaks when the difference is negative.

 

[Toxi]

Clearly I can't get it to work the way I want it to, so I created a much simpler effect.

It's kinda a crappy effect, beyond being hilarious with Scornful Egotist.

 

[ultron87]

Finally the Scornful Egotist combo enabler I've always wanted.

Edit: Damn you Toxi!

Might want to say "target creature you control" so it isn't a token killer?

 

[Yeef]

Clearly I can't get it to work the way I want it to, so I created a much simpler effect.

If you don't care about NWO, you could just do something like Doran / Assault Formation. "Until end of turn, target creature deals damage equal to its toughness instead of its power."

 

[aidan]

Clearly I can't get it to work the way I want it to, so I created a much simpler effect.

All of a sudden it seems like you'd be casting this on your opponent's creatures, rather than your own. Shrinks 'Goyfs, kills Hangerbacks, stunts Knight of the Reliquary, etc.

 

[Ashodin]

Hahahaha I just thought of Egotist after I made it.

Also, it kills Endless One!

All of a sudden it seems like you'd be casting this on your opponent's creatures, rather than your own.

If you want to enable their balance, sure.

 

[Angry Grimace]

"Until end of turn, target creature has base power and base toughness each equal to its converted mana cost."

 

[LaserBuddha]

You have to be careful with state triggers, because they can very easily create an infinite loop which just instantly draws the game. The way you have it worded now would create an infinite loop if the creature has a non-symmetrical power and/or toughness modifiers.
Example:

• 2/2 under the effects of Titan's Strength becomes a 5/3.
• Power is not equal to toughness, so the ability triggers and changes base power to 3, making it a 6/3.
• Power is not equal to toughness, so the ability triggers and changes base power to 3, making it a 6/3.
• Power is not equal to toughness, so the ability triggers and changes base power to 3, making it a 6/3... etc.

I'm not sure exactly how to make it work like you want it to, but it likely involves something along the lines of "target creature gets +X/+0 where X is it's toughness minus its power".

Couldn't you fix this by saying "base power" on the card? 2/2 creature, play Titan's Strength, becomes 5/3, trigger makes the base power 3 to match touchness 3 so it is a 6/3 now, and stays there unless something changes the toughness. You can also say base toughness if you feel like it.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Like I mentioned, I think it would be a lot better, and make clearer what it's trying to do, if you went with a hard number.

"Target creature has base power and toughness 5/5 until end of turn."

 

[Santiako]

Ashodin, I think you should put some other cards for context, since this whole same p/t thing seems to be an important thing for your set.

 

[pelicansurf]

Clearly I can't get it to work the way I want it to, so I created a much simpler effect.

Atarka laughs at you.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Ashodin, I think you should put some other cards for context, since this whole same p/t thing seems to be an important thing for your set.

He posted some in the previous thread. He has a mechanic called "balance", where a creature gets an ability only if its power and toughness are equal. He has a lot of equipment to support this.

 

[Santiako]

He posted some in the previous thread. He has a mechanic called "balance", where a creature gets an ability only if its power and toughness are equal. He has a lot of equipment to support this.

Ah, I remember now, but I feel like it would benefit the conversation if we knew a bit more of the set containing the card.

 

[aidan]

Brandon Sanderson, who's a pretty popular author here on GAF, just wrote a long post on Reddit proposing a solution to the problem with Vintage and Legacy.

I believe there might be a simple solution to the problems of card availability for eternal formats. I’ll explain my ideas in a moment, but if you don’t mind a digression, I’d like to make a small defense of the reserve list. Now, before you get out the pitchforks, let me say that like most of you, I would aggressively vote to have the reserve list abolished if it were my choice. The chance to play Vintage/Legacy with more people would outweigh the drop in value it would cause in my own personal set of power nine. It's not like I'm ever planning to sell them anyway.

However, though I’d do it, I’d be sad to see the reserve list go for storytelling reasons. You see, there’s a powerful narrative to old Magic cards. Though I entered Magic in the days of its infancy (the first expansion I bought a booster from was Legends), the power nine were already mythical objects, spoken of in hushed voices . When I saw my first playset in person, I approached it with the awe of seeing Excalibur. It is powerfully evocative to me that cards exist with so much lore attached to them. I feel these original sets of power give something intangible, yet valuable, to the MTG community. It’s good for us that we have these stories to tell.

That said, it’s bad for the game that a limited number of people can play these formats. And, as everyone knows, it’s only going to get worse as more cards end up getting lost or destroyed. Wizards, of course, is under no obligation to support Legacy or Vintage, and I sympathize with their recent tone regarding proxies. As someone whose livelihood depends on intellectual property, I know exactly where they’re coming from.

But why does it have to be one option or the other: Support Legacy/Vintage or maintain the Reserve List? Can’t we have both? I think this argument is a classical False Dichotomy. There is an easy way to support Vintage (might be harder with Legacy, so I’ll approach this from a Power Nine standpoint first) and never disobey even the spirit of the Reserve list.

We need “Shock Moxen.”

 

[Ashodin]

"Until end of turn, target creature has base power and base toughness each equal to its converted mana cost."

TEMPLATING TRIGGERED. I just made it 4/4 for now, each equal to CMC seems too complicated for common.

Ashodin, I think you should put some other cards for context, since this whole same p/t thing seems to be an important thing for your set.

Oh sure! One of my mechanics in the set is Balance — * has X and gets +X/+X if its power is equal to its toughness.

Ex:

I also encourage you to look at my tumblr, where I've been posting the cards I've made so far:

http://legendrule.tumblr.com/

 

[kirblar]

They won't print Legendary duals (because of sticking to the "spirit" *barf*) - shock moxen ain't happening.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Brandon Sanderson, who's a pretty popular author here on GAF, just wrote a long post on Reddit proposing a solution to the problem with Vintage and Legacy.

I was somewhat disappointed with his latest book, despite it being the continuation of a fairly beloved book and uncertain to ever receive a sequel.
Just bland and unexciting and next to zero feel of discovery and finesse in combat I loved when reading his works.


Still would like him becoming an MtG writer or even better let him have a crack at designing a set. His groundwork usually is much better than his actual narrative after all.

As to his post, P9 aren't so much mythical but might as well be none existent to someone who starts later.

 

[Toxi]

Brandon Sanderson, who's a pretty popular author here on GAF, just wrote a long post on Reddit proposing a solution to the problem with Vintage and Legacy.

I enjoy Sanderson's Stormlight Archive books, but this seems like an incredibly awkward solution that will take several years to put into effect, with no guarantee it would actually do anything to fix the issue of Vintage power 9.

 

[kirblar]

They can't afford a guy like him.

 

[Firemind]

Steampunk India is cool though. Niv-Mizzet would love Ghirapur.

No. No, he would not.

 

[aidan]

They can't afford a guy like him.

Eh. He's written tie-in before, and Hasbro has deep pockets. I've always thought he'd be a good fit for Magic, and, frankly, if they're really keen on ramping up their storytelling, they're going to have to start hiring professional writers in the same way that D&D and Pathfinder do.

 

[Royal_Flush]

Clearly I can't get it to work the way I want it to, so I created a much simpler effect.

I mean, what you could do is "Target creature's base power becomes equal to its base toughness until end of turn"

Or, maybe better if you can put it at rare (I'm not sure if locking the difference circumvents the problem, but I don't see an immediate rule violation with this):

"If target creature's power is greater than its toughness, put X growth counters on it, where X is that creature's toughness minus its power. Otherwise, put X shrink counters on it, where X is that creature's power minus its toughness.
Until end of turn that creature gets +1/+0 for each growth counter on it and -1/-0 for each shrink counter on it and gains 'At the beginning of the next end step remove all growth counters and all shrink counters from this card'."

Edit: Wait, you don't even need the counters, right? Just "gains +-X/+0 where X is the difference", right?

 

[Angry Grimace]

Oh sure! One of my mechanics in the set is Balance — * has X and gets +X/+X if its power is equal to its toughness.

This is one of those bubbles I'm gonna burst and feel bad about: you've talked about this Balance ability word a couple times, but it does not and cannot work within the rules because of how layers work.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

They can't afford a guy like him.

Multi franchise deal have him write for Forgotten Realms as well. Faerun is experiencing a major drought when it comes to releases anyway. There's like 3 or 4 authors left writing regularly and Evans is like the only one with a remotely fresh series, still the 5th book of her series.

Eh. He's written tie-in before, and Hasbro has deep pockets. I've always thought he'd be a good fit for Magic, and, frankly, if they're really keen on ramping up their storytelling, they're going to have to start hiring professional writers in the same way that D&D and Pathfinder do.

but they are D&D

I just noticed how difficult Flying is to spot on some of these cards, pay "C to do... on cast" should have been a keyword

 

[SigmasonicX]

I suppose I'll come out and say it, too. I don't believe balance is a good mechanic, especially not one to design a whole set around. Having to care about fiddling around with numbers just does not seem like an interesting space, especially if you get punished for using too many balance-enabling spells and equipment (you can give a 1/2 creature +2/+1 only once). I was hoping you'd discover this for yourself when you started designing commons.

I encourage you to look at your playtests and determine what you actually enjoy about the mechanic, because I can assure you, it's related to something the mechanic encourages you to do, not the whole mechanic. Perhaps you would rather have a mechanic that encourages using a lot of equipment and/or heroic or a variation of it.

EDIT:

I just noticed how difficult Flying is to spot on some of these cards, pay "C to do... on cast" should have been a keyword

You mean like "Kicker C" >_>? Though you'd still have "when you cast CARDNAME, if it was kicked..." before the flying part to indicate that it happens when cast.

 

[Kyne]

Your best bet would be to find a LGS to sell them to. You can get rid of the collection quickly this way. Channel Fireball and Star City Games pay cash for cards as well, although obviously not as much as they would in store credit. eBay fees have gone through the roof as of late, so you get dinged quite a bit on cards that are already low value. On TCGPlayer you have the issue of competing with literally dozens of sellers. On top of that you're almost assuredly getting the TCGLow price for near mint cards.

I would rank the methods of dumping a collection like this:
1. LGS/local dealers (no shipping costs, fast)
2. Channel Fireball/SCG (shipping costs add up, less cash up front)
3. eBay/TCGPlayer (fees, fees, fees. I would recommend this option only for more expensive cards)

This is actually very helpful, thank you.

My follow up question is this: A lot of the more expensive cards seem to be popular due to being popular in the modern format.

Should I be waiting for a certain point before trying to sell these off for the biggest profit? Like, is modern rotating/making or a comeback or something? Is anything big going to change soon that should prevent me from selling right now?

Again, the help is much appreciated. It's unfortunate that all of my old friends who played with me no longer play/aren't my friends anymore. My new friends+girlfriend have no interest in the game and I can't be bothered to go out every Friday and make new friends.

It was a very expensive hobby too. I'm actually surprised a lot of the value of the cards went up.

 

[SigmasonicX]

This is actually very helpful, thank you.

My follow up question is this: A lot of the more expensive cards seem to be popular due to being popular in the modern format.

Should I be waiting for a certain point before trying to sell these off for the biggest profit? Like, is modern rotating/making or a comeback or something? Is anything big going to change soon that should prevent me from selling right now?

Again, the help is much appreciated. It's unfortunate that all of my old friends who played with me no longer play/aren't my friends anymore. My new friends+girlfriend have no interest in the game and I can't be bothered to go out every Friday and make new friends.

It was a very expensive hobby too. I'm actually surprised a lot of the value of the cards went up.

Modern is a non-rotating format, but a new card or a breakout new strategy can result in speculation bringing up the price of random cards (and lowering them when they turn out not to be that great). I can't think of any cards that you'd want to hold onto if you have no interest in playing, though. There are thoughts that Stoneforge Mystic will be unbanned, but speculation is already driving its price up, so you might as well unload it if you have it, before it turns out not to be unbanned.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

EDIT:

You mean like "Kicker C" >_>? Though you'd still have "when you cast CARDNAME, if it was kicked..." before the flying part to indicate that it happens when cast.

Either that or skip the reminder text on cards with this much text already.

A keyword would at least make it more aesthetically pleasing. I really hate how many of these cards end up reading/looking because of Devoid and C reminder text and how they need to be set up structurally.