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[divisionbyzorro]

Mono-Red being T1 at like every standard PT for 2-3 years straight was really obnoxious, especially given how good it is in Modern.

I was really just reacting to theory-templating burn spells that wouldn't go to the face but would still kill planeswalkers.

I'd posit that the problem you're referring to was more due to how insanely pushed red one-drop creatures got there for a while as opposed to having access to something like Lightning Strike.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Edit: just an idea.

Ifnir 1BB

Legendary Instant Creature - God

Ifnir isn't a creature as you cast it.

Destroy target Creature or Planeswalker. If an opponent has 10 or less life Ifnir enters the Battlefield as a Creature.

Indestructible, Lifelink, Haste

4/5

 

[OnPoint]

Are these real or fake?

If real, please provide a source.

If fake, please, do not create imaginary cards 3 or so hours before spoilers are actually going to happen.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Are these real or fake?

If real, please provide a source.

If fake, please, do not create imaginary cards 3 or so hours before spoilers are actually going to happen.

He's posting ideas; there was a page break between the explanation and the post.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Those are fake I was theorycrafting if it were possible to template these. Surprisingly there aren't legendary instants or sorceries yet. Obviously it's pointless but you'd think epic spells would have been legendary considering it's Kamigawa.

Also Kibler intends to play the next PT.

 

[OnPoint]

He's posting ideas; there was a page break between the explanation and the post.

We've done this close to spoilers before and it always ends poorly.

We should not be posting ideas/imaginary cards during spoiler season.

 

[ultron87]

Those are fake I was theorycrafting if it were possible to template these. Surprisingly there aren't legendary instants or sorceries yet. Obviously it's pointless but you'd think epic spells would have been legendary considering it's Kamigawa.

Also Kibler intends to play the next PT.

The rules problems would come from things that put creatures onto the battlefield without them being cast. So they'd have to define what happens if a "Sorcery Creature" just appears on the battlefield from exile or the graveyard. Also ones that target would be a little odd since they'd get countered if the target becomes illegal, or would be uncastable in some situations. Which are fine from the rules, but a little weird for gameplay purposes.

 

[OnPoint]

Those are fake I was theorycrafting if it were possible to template these. Surprisingly there aren't legendary instants or sorceries yet. Obviously it's pointless but you'd think epic spells would have been legendary considering it's Kamigawa.

Also Kibler intends to play the next PT.

Funny you should draw that parallel. Epic was their attempt to create legendary spells.

this-is-so-meta asked: My birthday was on the sixteenth and I forgot to ask about my favorite mechanic, epic! Can you give any insight on Epic's development?

Rosewater: Brian Tinsman designed epic. He was inspired by trying to figure out what a legendary instant or society would do.

http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/148030597953/my-birthday-was-on-the-sixteenth-and-i-forgot-to​

So good looks for you to make the connection. I wouldn't have.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

The rules problems would come from things that put creatures onto the battlefield without them being cast. So they'd have to define what happens if a "Sorcery Creature" just appears on the battlefield from exile or the graveyard. Also ones that target would be a little odd since they'd get countered if the target becomes illegal, or would be uncastable in some situations. Which are fine from the rules, but a little weird for gameplay purposes.

Fair points, I guess having a sorcery in play would be a bit weird. Adding a "As long as THIS is a creature it isn't an instant/sorcery" line would make it way too confusing for no benefit.

Funny you should draw that parallel. Epic was their attempt to create legendary spells.

this-is-so-meta asked: My birthday was on the sixteenth and I forgot to ask about my favorite mechanic, epic! Can you give any insight on Epic's development?

Rosewater: Brian Tinsman designed epic. He was inspired by trying to figure out what a legendary instant or society would do.

http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/148030597953/my-birthday-was-on-the-sixteenth-and-i-forgot-to​

So good looks for you to make the connection. I wouldn't have.

People hardly even remember Epic exists, I only drew the connection when I was thinking hard on what legendary spells would be. My ideas were stupid deck restrictions that would essentially be Ancestral Recall in vintage, 1 copy super powerful, or only 1 copy can exist on the stack at the same time.

 

[Simply Sarah]

Fair points, I guess having a sorcery in play would be a bit weird. Adding a "As long as THIS is a creature it isn't an instant/sorcery" line would make it way too confusing for no benefit.

People hardly even remember Epic exists, I only drew the connection when I was thinking hard on what legendary spells would be. My ideas were stupid deck restrictions that would essentially be Ancestral Recall in vintage, 1 copy super powerful, or only 1 copy can exist on the stack at the same time.

I mean, you could have them exile all other copies from your hand, deck, stack, and graveyard but that would be weird and awkward at best since it would force revealing your hand and deck even before we get to exiling the other copies. You could prevent it from being cast if another copy was in your graveyard but that's super feel bad and also awkward.

 

[jph139]

You could prevent it from being cast if another copy was in your graveyard but that's super feel bad and also awkward.

I'd put it into exile and prevent other copies that way. And it'd suck to draw an extra copy, sure, but if you stuck Cycling on them you'd only be out a bit of mana.

Probably the most elegant way, but I'm​ not sure how worth it it would be.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

I'd put it into exile and prevent other copies that way. And it'd suck to draw an extra copy, sure, but if you stuck Cycling on them you'd only be out a bit of mana.

Probably the most elegant way, but I'm​ not sure how worth it it would be.

If you can have Relentless Rats, you can have a Legendary spell where it says you can only have one copy in your library. It's not that hard. If you want it to be truly legendary, have it exile itself as part of resolution.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Unrelated but I was thinking if it would be feasible to allow scry 1 twice on a mull to 5.

I mean, you could have them exile all other copies from your hand, deck, stack, and graveyard but that would be weird and awkward at best since it would force revealing your hand and deck even before we get to exiling the other copies. You could prevent it from being cast if another copy was in your graveyard but that's super feel bad and also awkward.

Yeah Epic is actually a very well done solution to this. I've seen it played in commander and it really does convey this feeling of casting an epic spell.

I'd put it into exile and prevent other copies that way. And it'd suck to draw an extra copy, sure, but if you stuck Cycling on them you'd only be out a bit of mana.

Probably the most elegant way, but I'm​ not sure how worth it it would be.

That's actually a great idea and easy to implement

"As long as THIS remains exiled you can't cast spells with the same name."

I'd like to see this now. The difficulty would be balancing the cards in such a way that they are strong enough you want to play multiples but not strong enough they'd be the restricted lottery.

 

[Yeef]

I think you guys are approaching the problem of Legendary spells from the wrong angle. Legendary just signals significance, flavor-wise. It doesn't necessarily have to be a drawback when applied to spells.

I think something akin to Grandeur and/or the Squadron Hawk effect would work well for Legendary spells. For example:

Fire Bomb RRR
Legendary Instant
(When you cast this, you may search your hand and library for any number of cards with the same name and cast them without paying their mana costs. If you search your library this way, shuffle it.).
Fire Bomb does 2 damage to target creature or player.

Or

Merciless Eviction 2.0 3WB
Legendary Sorcery
(When you cast this, you may cast a card with the same name from your hand without paying its mana cost).
Choose one —
• Exile all artifacts.
• Exile all creatures.
• Exile all enchantments.
• Exile all planeswalkers.

 

[Joe Molotov]

I think something akin to Grandeur and/or the Squadron Hawk effect would work well for Legendary spells. For example:

Fire Bomb RRR
Legendary Instant
(When you cast this, you may search your hand and library for any number of cards with the same name and cast them without paying their mana costs. If you search your library this way, shuffle it.).
Fire Bomb does 2 damage to target creature or player.

3 mana to for an 8 dmg spell seems like it might be a little too good, tho.

 

[El Topo]

3 mana to for an 8 dmg spell seems like it might be a little too good, tho.

Not to mention that e.g. each of the spells would trigger Shrine of Burning Rage or Young Pyromancer.

 

[Angry Grimace]

3 mana to for an 8 dmg spell seems like it might be a little too good, tho.

It's a terrible spell. It costs 3 mana and 4 cards.

Oh, wait, he put Squadron Hawk text on it, yeah that's not gonna happen.

 

[Tunoku]

Give it to me and I'll crush everything with Burn in Modern. Three mana, but it wins the game on the spot. I'll even play 21 lands. It's 4 separate spells, so have fun countering my stuff.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I think you guys are approaching the problem of Legendary spells from the wrong angle. Legendary just signals significance, flavor-wise. It doesn't necessarily have to be a drawback when applied to spells.

Legendaries are unique that's how their significance is measured. Without the legendary rule legendary doesn't mean anything.
Epic captured that essence I don't know what else could.

 

[Yeef]

It's a terrible spell. It costs 3 mana and 4 cards.

Oh, wait, he put Squadron Hawk text on it, yeah that's not gonna happen.

Yeah, obviously that particular design is busted, but it's just a proof-of-concept.

Legendaries are unique that's how their significance is measured. Without the legendary rule legendary doesn't mean anything.
Epic captured that essence I don't know what else could.

But legends are only partially unique. If you exile my Thalia, I can immediately play another one. They're unique while in-play, but not otherwise, even in terms of effects. Instants and sorceries are never in play, so there's no reason to try and bring that rules baggage along when talking about non-permanents.

One issue, though, is that Legendary creatures are typically more powerful for their mana costs because of the legendary downside. In limited, you're usually just getting extra power at no cost, because you don't have multiples anyway. The issue with the legendary spells above is that, you're paying extra in limited for a weak effect. In constructed 8 damage for 3 mana is nuts, but often in limited it would be RRR mana for a shock, which is pretty awful. It also creates those corner cases where multiple copies are opened and they wheel, so someone ends up with a busted deck by getting 3 or 4 of them.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Okay serious question when should one pick Liliana the Last Hopes?

But legends are only partially unique. If you exile my Thalia, I can immediately play another one. They're unique while in-play, but not otherwise, even in terms of effects. Instants and sorceries are never in play, so there's no reason to try and bring that rules baggage along when talking about non-permanents.

That rules baggage is the only thing truly differentiating them from regular creatures. Since you can't carry it over you have to simulate it for non permanents.
If it only exiles on resolving it'd also allow you to play a 2nd if it was countered for instance.

 

[Supast4r]

Mono-Red being T1 at like every standard PT for 2-3 years straight was really obnoxious, especially given how good it is in Modern.

Mono Red being tier 1 for 2-3 years is what CAUSED modern burn to become so good. Those years gave them: Great Revel, Swiftspear, Atarka's command, skullcrack, boros charm, and Destructive Revelry.

 

[Supast4r]

Okay serious question when should you pick Liliana the Last Hopes?

Usually around the time when a new set comes out is when it's best to pickup staples. People are usually selling right now because liliana may/may not be as good as she now.

 

[Supast4r]

I thought Enchantments were what we were getting for Masterpieces this block. They get to fill 20 slots between the 2 sets with the 15 Theros gods and the 5 new Gods!

No way in HELL that wizards doesn't put Cruel Ultimatum in the masterpiece set. I also wouldn't be surprised if: Nicol bolas (creature), City of Brass and damnation were there since they fit with the Egyptian theme.

 

[Infinite Stars]

Okay serious question when should one pick Liliana the Last Hopes?

That rules baggage is the only thing truly differentiating them from regular creatures. Since you can't carry it over you have to simulate it for non permanents.
If it only exiles on resolving it'd also allow you to play a 2nd if it was countered for instance.

Time Machine back to when Eldritch Moon just came out.

Besides that, probably right after the Fall Block releases. Her name prevents her from being reprinted more then Liliana of the Veil does outside of Masters Products.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Time Machine back to when Eldritch Moon just came out.

Besides that, probably right after the Fall Block releases. Her name prevents her from being reprinted more then Liliana of the Veil does outside of Masters Products.

I actually sold the one I opened back then for more than she's going right now. Hence I'm reluctant on when to pick her up.

 

[Rafy]

The article this was in has just been just taken down, indicating that it was posted earlier than it should have been.

Those are some ugly borders

 

[aidan]

Reminds me of this Pokemon card:

Oh god. Just noticed the stylized hieroglyphic font used to spell the card name. Nope. Please be fake.

EDIT: Huh. The set code on the card is MPS, which doesn't make sense since they're called Invocations.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Reminds me of Yu-Gi-Oh.

 

[OnPoint]

Oh...

Oh no

 

[jph139]

Oh wow. Maybe... it looks better in person?

It says 029/054 though? Is that number right?

 

[Rafy]

Looks like they are real. Here's the second one:

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

If the border wasn't enough the font gives it the rest. This fugly af.

Nice 21...

 

[aidan]

Yep, they are real. Here's the second one:

Awful.

A spell and a creature, hey?

 

[Lucario]

okay these look fucking terrible lmao

 

[SigmasonicX]

I'd like it more if the art was stylized too, as opposed to just being regular old art.

 

[Rafy]

That hieroglyphic font sucks, I can't read half the stuff written with it...

 

[Angry Grimace]

We Yugioh now.

Shit looks awful though.

 

[aidan]

Why is the rules text centre-aligned? Why would they change the orientation of the P/T? How are they going to fit any sort of complex card type text in that box? Creature - Bird Wizard barely fits. What is going on?

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

That hieroglyphic font sucks, I can't read half the stuff written with it...

I was contemplating if it's offensive even. If not it's still very cringey.

 

[Rafy]

Lol, not even 5 minutes in and this has begun already:

EDIT: Third one:

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Cheon's is Counterspell

 

[Poppy]

haha wow, who the heck greenlit this

 

[aidan]

So, spells and creatures with spells attached to them?

 

[Rafy]

Another one

 

[Lucario]

Corsecrated Sphiry

Creature - Sphiry|?

 

[El Topo]

Counterspell revealed by Paul Cheon. Damn is it pretty.

Edit:
Wow. That Counterbalance looks sensational.

 

[aidan]

The art we've seen so far doesn't make me hopeful for the set proper. Lots of obvious CG illustrations, which reminds me of BFZ.

 

[jph139]

I'd like it more if the art was stylized too, as opposed to just being regular old art.

Yeah, at least then it would be coherent. Now it just sort of looks like a regular old card worth regular CGish art, only with some vaguely Egyptian shit stapled to it.

And it seems like... there's no overarching theme other than "stuff that might look cool Egyptian," which says to me that they ran out of Masterpiece ideas REAL quick.

 

[Angry Grimace]

The biggest problem is how dopey the border looks. Like it looks completely unfinished.