Support NeoGAF

[Angry Grimace]

I wonder what's going to happen with the Pro Tour. I doubt they'll have a core set standard pro tour?

I think one of the PT's people remember most in recent years was Pro Tour Magic 2015 - that was the one where Ivan Floch won with UW Control but a lot of cool stuff happened, like Yuuki Ichikawa's Golgari Charm.

 

[red13th]

Dominaria (the set) would be amazing <3 Don't disappoint us WotC!

 

[SigmasonicX]

There's a possibility that they'll attach subtitles to core sets and use that for Pro Tours, like "War of the Knights" in a core set showcasing White Knight vs. Black Knight, or something.

 

[Santiako]

There's a possibility that they'll attach subtitles to core sets and use that for Pro Tours, like "War of the Knights" in a core set showcasing White Knight vs. Black Knight, or something.

Flashbacks to 7th editions terrible attempt at a storyline.

 

[Infinite Stars]

This is still just as bad if we go back to 5 new walker cards per year + the ones in the core though. I'd prefer they keep PWs out of the core altogether and do 10 split across the three big sets.

Eh, right now we've gotten roughly 11 planeswalkers per year of the two block model(5 in BFZ, 6 in SoI, 6 in Kaladesh, 5 in Amonkhet).. They're still using the Gatewatch as their brand for the near-future, so I can imagine something like this:

Core Set: Near Reprintable versions of the Core Gatewatch
Set A: 2 Walkers
Set B: 2 Walkers
Set C: 2 Walkers

I mean, you put the Gatewatch into the Planeswalker slots of the Core Sets, and you've got them where they're accessible to new players without the embarassment of having 3 Nissa's in Standard, all of which have very different flavor/elements(and should have been different characters for Amonkhet Nissa).

 

[A Serious Man]

Any return to Dominaria needs to be at least two sets. A whole year worth of sets would not be unwelcome.

 

[DrArchon]

Flashbacks to 7th editions terrible attempt at a storyline.

What, you weren't super invested in what the Paladins were up to?

 

[charlequin]

Another thing I didn't think of, but which I saw pointed out on Reddit, is that now they have a new storytelling tool that other media use all the time but they couldn't really afforrd before: they can do a set in the fall with a cliffhanger, then do an unrelated set, and then in the spring resolve the cliffhanger. Like: imagine skipping out on Mirrodin Besieged entirely, going off to Lorwyn or something, and coming back to New Phyrexia that spring.

Dominaria (the set) would be amazing <3 Don't disappoint us WotC!

I will really honestly be shocked if they don't announce something like this after making such a big point of meeting expectations for the 25th.

There's a possibility that they'll attach subtitles to core sets and use that for Pro Tours, like "War of the Knights" in a core set showcasing White Knight vs. Black Knight, or something.

Again, Origins is the way forward here IMO.

Core Set: Near Reprintable versions of the Core Gatewatch
Set A: 2 Walkers
Set B: 2 Walkers
Set C: 2 Walkers

That means we still have two versions of every GW character in Standard at all times and they make up half of all the planeswalkers in print, which I think goes against this statement:

For example, for all of 2017 and 2018, only a handful of planeswalker cards will be Gatewatch members, and that's including in Planeswalker Decks, where they'll appear slightly more often.

 

[traveler]

Dominaria is likely to be at least two sets. Not sure how soon they came to this decision either; the leaked packaging material from earlier suggests two related sets following Amonkhet, so my bet is that Dominaria is Summer and Fall next year, with Conquest of Power/Ixalon follow up in Winter and the new core set in Spring.

 

[Violet_0]

they could make New Phyrexia invade Dominaria again. Then revive Urza and the Weatherlight crew and make them all planeswalkers. Then we can party like it's 2000

Urza is going to be mono Green, of course

 

[Infinite Stars]

Crap, I forgot about the Core set being once a year.

I mean, I think the Core Set is going to have some level of Gatewatch Representation, if only because it's the product aimed at new players AKA the ones the Gatewatch is for.

 

[Lucario]

So, uh, complete sets of amonkhet are in the area of 45tix online right now - and falling. You can get a complete playset redeemed for ~$280 after fees.

I think that's the cheapest a redeemable set has ever been online, with the possible exception of some old core sets.

 

[Firemind]

they could make New Phyrexia invade Dominaria again. Then revive Urza and the Weatherlight crew and make them all planeswalkers. Then we can party like it's 2000

Urza is going to be mono Green, of course

Karn is going to sacrifice himself this time to revive Urza. BELIEVE.

 

[Infinite Stars]

Karn is going to sacrifice himself this time to revive Urza. BELIEVE.

Super-Planeswalking-Robot

URZAMAN

Or we just Karn and Urza occupying the same shell of Karn's Body.

 

[El Topo]

Give the people what they want, Wizards! Give us Ulgrotha!

 

[Zocano]

I imagine we'll see Urza return in some form for dominaria and the conclusion to Liliana's story w/ the Raven Man.

I keep thinking Raven Man is some weird evil Urza for some reason.

 

[Firemind]

I imagine we'll see Urza return in some form for dominaria and the conclusion to Liliana's story w/ the Raven Man.

I keep thinking Raven Man is some weird evil Urza for some reason.

You mean Mishra?

 

[Jhriad]

Something he can't say: Masterpieces may have crashed card prices too hard.

Standard being total shit during the Masterpiece era did that. Masterpieces just exacerbated the problem.

WOTC using the Masterpiece series as a reprint avenue rather than as a rare, additional collectible layer on top of existing sets was the real issue with the series in general. Masterpieces should probably have been entirely focused on the set they were in. Then explore the idea of reprint oriented Masterpieces being in sets that will have lopsided EV post realease anyways, like Conspiracy. More experimental booster-based products like Conspiracy aren't going to sell well generally so they need some extra incentive for those products to move off the shelves when they're no longer being drafted.

Regarding the 25th anniversary....I don't know. The way his article reads, each set of masterpieces will have to fit perfectly wherever they are included...

Serra Angel, Sengir Vampire, Giant Growth, Lightning Bolt, Swords to Plowshares, White Knight, Black Knight, Hypnotic Specter, Armageddon, Royal Assassin, Llanowar Elves, Prodigal Sorcerer, Necropotence, Force of Nature, Birds of Paradise, etc.

There's plenty of iconic cards from the early days of Magic to fill out a batch of Masterpiece cards themed around Dominaria or MTG itself rather than another poor attempt at a mechanically themed cycle. Dominaria is probably the easiest place to find cards to give the Masterpiece treatment to.

Biggest question for me now is what is the 4th pro tour. When half a core set is reprints, it's as tougher sell as a promotional thing for the new set, so do they change it to team format or modern, or leave it as is?

Make the 4th Pro Tour of the year a Team Constructed event of some sort.

 

[Angry Grimace]

So, uh, complete sets of amonkhet are in the area of 45tix online right now - and falling. You can get a complete playset redeemed for ~$280 after fees.

I think that's the cheapest a redeemable set has ever been online, with the possible exception of some old core sets.

Dragon's Maze!

Dominaria is likely to be at least two sets. Not sure how soon they came to this decision either; the leaked packaging material from earlier suggests two related sets following Amonkhet, so my bet is that Dominaria is Summer and Fall next year, with Conquest of Power/Ixalon follow up in Winter and the new core set in Spring.

Ixalan is the Fall set for this year.

 

[OnPoint]

Outside of time travel shenanigans, they aren't going to bring back Urza. And I really hope they never do. Leave that early, early lore dead and buried, aside from Karn and Terferi and the Phyrexians and Bolas.

 

[traveler]

Right, I'm saying the follow up set to Ixalan will be the Spring set of next year. Conquest of Power or whatever the rename of it will be.

 

[Santiako]

Right, I'm saying the follow up set to Ixalan will be the Spring set of next year. Conquest of Power or whatever the rename of it will be.

No, that's on January/February like usual. (Rivals of Ixalan if the most recent leaks are correct). Then the next set (first big standalone set without block) is in April/May.

 

[SigmasonicX]

The winter set will be set two of Ixalan. The spring set will be standalone, because the core set will be in summer. So either Dominaria is standalone, or it won't come until fall. Or it's not happening, but that's unlikely.

 

[El Topo]

Outside of time travel shenanigans, they aren't going to bring back Urza. And I really hope they never do. Leave that early, early lore dead and buried, aside from Karn and Terferi and the Phyrexians and Bolas.

Urza had his story arc. No need to ever bring him back. As far as I'm concerned they should've buried the Phyrexians as well.

 

[Yeef]

Urza had his story arc. No need to ever bring him back. As far as I'm concerned they should've buried the Phyrexians as well.

The Phyrexians are too cool to just do away with completely. I like the way they've handled the New Phyrexians so far. The fact that there's in-fighting between the Praetors rather than just having the one big-bad, like Yawgmoth, potentially opens a lot of doors.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Phyrexians are a lock because of Elspeth.

Oh I could see Elspeth getting resd in a core set now.

 

[DrArchon]

Urza had his story arc. No need to ever bring him back. As far as I'm concerned they should've buried the Phyrexians as well.

Eh, they certainly needed more villains, and the new Phyrexians are different enough from the old ones to be interesting imo. You've got all the colors repped instead of just black, and you've got the sects within the larger group.

Urza being dead for good is fine though.

 

[El Topo]

The Phyrexians are too cool to just do away with completely. I like the way they've handled the New Phyrexians so far. The fact that there's in-fighting between the Praetors rather than just having the one big-bad, like Yawgmoth, potentially opens a lot of doors.

They could've done that with a new villain though. I just never liked the whole rebuild/corruption thing. Not saying they're horrendous, but I would've welcomed other villains.

 

[charlequin]

Dominaria is likely to be at least two sets.

By the info we have it'd have to be the fall set of 2018 to manage that. I actually wonder if this set was another one that prompted them in the direction of this change.

I mean, I think the Core Set is going to have some level of Gatewatch Representation, if only because it's the product aimed at new players AKA the ones the Gatewatch is for.

I think it's more likely that they potentially include the Gatewatch on other cards but have no planeswalkers at all in the new Core.

Urza had his story arc. No need to ever bring him back. As far as I'm concerned they should've buried the Phyrexians as well.

The Phyrexians are the single most successful original IP in the Magic brand by orders of magnitude and probably something like a top 10 for fantasy gaming in general, it would be completely nuts to leave them out of the picture.

Urza being dead for good is fine though.

Urza and Yawgmoth both would be indescribably lame to resurrect. They had a whole giant story arc that paid off the premises of both characters. Let 'em rest.

 

[bigkrev]

I think it's more likely that they potentially include the Gatewatch on other cards but have no planeswalkers at all in the new Core.
.

Considering how he praised Planeswalker decks as a success, and the fact that they do Planeswalker decks for each set, they will at minimum have 2 Planeswalker deck 'walkers in the new core set. It would make little sense to not have "normal" ones at mythic in the set as well if you are doing weak ones for Precons.

My guess is they are all reprints.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

They could just reprint undesirable PWs in PW decks.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Considering how he praised Planeswalker decks as a success, and the fact that they do Planeswalker decks for each set, they will at minimum have 2 Planeswalker deck 'walkers in the new core set. It would make little sense to not have "normal" ones at mythic in the set as well if you are doing weak ones for Precons.

My guess is they are all reprints.

He also mentioned that the Gatewatch would appear a bit more often in Planeswalker Decks than in sets. This implies that they no longer are obliged to make sure a Planeswalker Deck character also appears in the set. And that does open up the possibility of the core set Planeswalker Decks having planeswalkers, but the actual set not.

 

[Imperfected]

Never, they have to intentionally create super unplayable ones for them, for reasons.

Using unintentionally super unplayable ones would be admitting they fucked up making them in the first place, I guess. There's still someone out there who wants to pretend Tibalt was okay.

 

[StrategyFan]

3 packs of a single set is fine for draft, but it has its downsides. i think it works better when the sets are 20-30% larger

250 can be really formulaic. that can theoretically reduce variance and make it more skillful, but if the color balance isn't great, then many of the individual matches are going to be lopsided

i guess it makes sense if they're forced to lock-in the set design many months in advance. without the ability to just make changes to cards in the days/weeks before they release they can't really use the second set of a block to fix the draft format like computer games

i still don't like the asymmetric rotation
it should be: 1 set leaves, 1 set enters

 

[OnPoint]

Never, they have to intentionally create super unplayable ones for them, for reasons.

Using unintentionally super unplayable ones would be admitting they fucked up making them in the first place, I guess. There's still someone out there who wants to pretend Tibalt was okay.

If they're playable they'll be bought up quick and prices will go up, effectively removing a beginner's product from the hands of people who need a beginner's product.

It's a good strategy to make these "bad".

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

i still don't like the asymmetric rotation
it should be: 1 set leaves, 1 set enters

That sounds awful a complete meta change every 3 months.

 

[Imperfected]

If they're playable they'll be bought up quick and prices will go up, effectively removing a beginner's product from the hands of people who need a beginner's product.

It's a good strategy to make these "bad".

The question wasn't whether or not they should be bad.

It's whether or not they can just reprint planeswalkers that are bad to begin with and use those, instead of intentionally creating bad new ones.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I think the latest Gideon

is the perfect level of power these should have.

 

[StrategyFan]

That sounds awful a complete meta change every 3 months.

not completely

it mostly means that cards you like from spring/summer sets can be played for longer, which is less change

it's the same as 1-block leaves, 1-block enters. just the timing is slightly different. the blocks needed to be together because they shared mechanics. i'm assuming the new sets don't

 

[Angry Grimace]

I like that they can't seem to decide whether Gideon is an old man or a young man.

It makes his burning lust for Chandra even weirder as its unclear whether he's a pervy old man or a young guy nursing his first crush.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Repeat after me

GIDEON. IS. A. STALKER.

 

[Imperfected]

I like that they can't seem to decide whether Gideon is an old man or a young man.

It makes his burning lust for Chandra even weirder because he comes off super skeevy because its unclear whether he's a pervy old man or a young guy nursing his first crush.

He's an old man who turns into an indestructible 4/4 or 5/5 young man sometimes.

 

[OnPoint]

The question wasn't whether or not they should be bad.

It's whether or not they can just reprint planeswalkers that are bad to begin with and use those, instead of intentionally creating bad new ones.

Because people don't get excited about old things? Even if they're new players.

 

[Imperfected]

Because people don't get excited about old things? Even if they're new players.

That is a ridiculous statement on every level.

I already gave the reason: because it would basically be admitting that they fucked up by making non-PW Deck walkers that are bad enough to be in PW Decks. You can stop.

 

[OnPoint]

That is a ridiculous statement on every level.

I already gave the reason: because it would basically be admitting that they fucked up by making non-PW Deck walkers that are bad enough to be in PW Decks. You can stop.

Why are you being condescending? Is this not a "discussion board"? Calm down lol

I think it's good to give people new toys to play with for new products. It gives everyone a reason to check these out.

I will say my statement could have been worded better -- reprints are a big example of how off that sounds haha

 

[SigmasonicX]

Will include this in the next OP.

STANDARD CHANGES
As announced in this article, Standard will use the new "three-and-one model" starting from the spring 2018 set. What does this mean? Well:
* No more small sets. Starting from the spring 2018 set, every Standard set will be large and drafted by itself.
* That also means no more blocks. Or rather, the block structure is allowed to be very fluid now. One world might get only one set, while another might get two or even three. Sets that take place on the same world might not be mechanically connected, even if they are right after each other.
* Core sets are back, in their old summer slot, starting 2018. Compared to before, where they tried to appeal to both beginners and experts and thus muddled the message, they will err on the side of appealing to beginners. Still, there is appeal to experienced players in that they will act as places to print relevant Standard cards without too much concern for fitting them into a world or set theme.
* The Masterpiece rarity has been downgraded from evergreen to only a sometimes thing. Masterpiece cards are exciting reprints printed at a higher rarity than mythic rare, and they did very well at first, but they had diminishing returns, and caused all kinds of problems with card prices. The fall 2017 set Ixalan will not have Masterpieces.

Standard rotation will remain the same as it is now, with the oldest four sets leaving every fall release.

 

[Ashodin]

Oh god
oh god

We could really get a real Shandalar set

 

[OnPoint]

Oh god
oh god

We could really get a real Shandalar set

Aside from nostalgia for the old shitty (shitty, yes, I had it, it's shitty) PC game, why do people want this so bad?

I wish they'd just blow it up in a Bolas scheme or something so we didn't have to hear about it anymore lol

 

[charlequin]

If they're playable they'll be bought up quick and prices will go up, effectively removing a beginner's product from the hands of people who need a beginner's product.

It's a good strategy to make these "bad".

It's never a good strategy to make marquee cards from a booster set shitty.

Aside from nostalgia for the old shitty (shitty, yes, I had it, it's shitty) PC game, why do people want this so bad?

It's a relatively bright, core fantasy world that isn't encumbered by too much relevant continuity or some super weird secondary theme.

 

[OnPoint]

It's never a good strategy to make marquee cards from a booster set shitty.



It's a relatively bright, core fantasy world that isn't encumbered by too much relevant continuity or some super weird secondary theme.

I can see your point. My question then is how do you keep these from flying off shelves and into scalping hands if they're accidentally too good?

As for Shandalar, is it relatively bright? I remember the game being positively drab and ugly. I felt like the Shandalar they used in whatever Core set they did it in lacked an identity.