Angry Grimace
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Multiple x values have to be the same to cast the spell
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Magic: the Gathering |OT11| Amonkhet - Have you ever had decks with a Pharaoh?
- Thread starter SigmasonicX
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True, and even though it got some new tools in Amonkhet, I don't think Living End has hit the point where you need to worry too much about it.
You'd think more decks would run it. It's basically the ability to run less than 60 cards in a deck.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
4 decks actually Wotc hates storm after all and street wraith does shit for storm
NO MORE SMALL SETS WHAT THE FUCKKK
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/metamorphosis-2-0-2017-06-12
Change #1—The Fall, Winter, and Spring Sets Will All Be Large Sets That Are Drafted Alone
Change #2—The Summer Set Will Be a Revamped Core Set
Change #3—A Different Approach to the Gatewatch
Change #4—The Masterpieces Series Will Revert to Being in Fewer Sets
Change #5—We're Changing Things Behind the Scenes
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/metamorphosis-2-0-2017-06-12
Change #1—The Fall, Winter, and Spring Sets Will All Be Large Sets That Are Drafted Alone
Change #2—The Summer Set Will Be a Revamped Core Set
Change #3—A Different Approach to the Gatewatch
Change #4—The Masterpieces Series Will Revert to Being in Fewer Sets
Change #5—We're Changing Things Behind the Scenes
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Oh nice I'm okay with that, never liked small sets all that much.
As in I don't like the concept I absolutely adore OGW
As in I don't like the concept I absolutely adore OGW
divisionbyzorro
Member
Good. Small sets suck.
They also fuck over drafters by turning set EV into literal lottery tickets.
They also fuck over drafters by turning set EV into literal lottery tickets.
All interesting, but I'm failing to see in reality how the new core set will be different to the old core set. They're still struggling to please two masters (new players and experienced vets), it still faces all the same challenges as previous core sets, and it's still on a yearly rotation.
Yeah, it seems like they'll follow a design similar to Origins:
"The set will be roughly half new cards and half reprints, and all the cards will be Standard-legal. The new cards will push toward resonance (aka things a new player would already recognize by having a familiarity with fantasy from pop culture). The set will have some story relevance, but more in a "filling in information of the past about relevant characters" way than telling a piece of the "present-day" story."
darkside31337
Tomodachi wa Mahou
All of these changes are great IMO. Wish they just killed off masterpieces entirely though.
Yeah, I don't really see what's actually going to be different or better about the Core Set with the way he talks about it there that'll solve any of the problems it had in the past. Especially if they're purposefully making it a simpler draft environment. It'll just get ignored by the enfranchised players even faster. I wonder if they've actually had a drop off in new player acquisition that this is trying to address?
GregLombardi
Member
So the value of masterpieces and expeditions just went up, by my calculation.
When's the next time we expect expeditions to be printed? 5 years from now?
When's the next time we expect expeditions to be printed? 5 years from now?
Dominaria is going to have them for sure.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
What
literally
what
did anyone predict that?
literally
what
did anyone predict that?
Great set of changes overall. Nice to see them finally realize the mistake of removing core sets vs the theory of being able to freely reprint in real sets.
For the 25th anniversary next year.
For the 25th anniversary next year.
divisionbyzorro
Member
As someone who started playing with Dark Ascension and was immediately thrust into M13, I actually like Core Sets because in the time that I've been playing, there's only been one bad Core Set (M14).
Masterpiece should be in each set, they just need to do like 10 per set and not 25+ like they are now. Half cards from the set, half cool reprints.
All other changes are awesome and exactly what they needed to do
Some people have some crow to eat wrt Core Sets coming back though...
All other changes are awesome and exactly what they needed to do
Some people have some crow to eat wrt Core Sets coming back though...
SigmasonicX
Member
Hmm. Well, I suppose I never was really that interested in small sets. I am interested in the more fluid "block" structure, particularly with the example of two sets having energy but sharing no other mechanics.
Is it wrong that my thoughts are on how to handle threads for the new core sets?
I expect that they'll release supplemental products aimed at advanced players around the core set release to keep up interest. This actually does handily solve that release schedule problem.
Is it wrong that my thoughts are on how to handle threads for the new core sets?
I expect that they'll release supplemental products aimed at advanced players around the core set release to keep up interest. This actually does handily solve that release schedule problem.
darkside31337
Tomodachi wa Mahou
With the change in story, some worlds will be just 1 set while others maybe 2-3 (maybe more?), I can definitely see them carrying mechanics over set to set where it makes sense which is really interesting to me.
GregLombardi
Member
I too am happy about core sets returning. As a 23 year veteran of the game, I always enjoyed their simplicity.
Regarding the 25th anniversary....I don't know. The way his article reads, each set of masterpieces will have to fit perfectly wherever they are included...
Core sets can be great though. M10 and M11 are one of the most coherent sets in my opinion. Reprints are great for the format as a whole, since they can always be in Standard when they are needed.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
The core set thing is weird. The explanation doesn't address the major argument against them that always rung true to me in the first place which is that new players tend to jump in with whatever everyone else is playing, not go seeking out a specific set of cards. Sure new players often go for deck builders toolkits or planeswalker decks but those are still current with the cards everyone at the local shop is using.
A Serious Man
Member
It's funny, I like the idea of blocks but have never been fond of small sets. Going to all large sets, with some of them staying on the same world, seems to solve that issue but it still feels odd.
I'll reserve judgement on these new core sets until I see one.
Scaling back on masterpieces and the Gatewatch was an obvious move.
I'll reserve judgement on these new core sets until I see one.
Scaling back on masterpieces and the Gatewatch was an obvious move.
charlequin
Banned
PROPS
Maro admitted 100% that their story card push was a major cause of the Standard problems
SLOPS
Not only did he not say they were burning worlds and mechanics too fast, they actually decided to burn through them potentially faster in some cases
I mean, with those words yes, but Rosewater's statements on Masterpieces have been pretty typically written with giant spaces to read between the lines.
The not enough good options thing isn't a lie, though. We were only on the third set of these and they were already reaching. With the Reserved List their bench just isn't deep enough.
Hosers. It screwed up their ability to regulate Standard.
the core sets can be "fine" if they keep the Origins formula. Some unique mechanics, a few peaks at new worlds, some references to old ones, that's okay, that can be quite fun
I don't much care about the competitive scene right now, so I'd always rather just have a whole bunch of fresh new cards. If I buy a Pokemon game, I don't care about the 600 something old Pokemon that I already know, give me new Pokemon
SigmasonicX
Member
Perhaps Planeswalker decks work better in that regard than we give them credit for. He does list it as a success. Maybe that in combination with core set boosters being on store shelves will be enough.
I believe what MaRo is leaving unstated, since it isn't really his field, is that they're going to release advanced supplemental products like Conspiracy in the summer now. This does handle the conflicting release schedule we had before.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
My reading between the lines here is that single sets are going to be how they do more returns without massive creative overhauls. A single set on Zendikar or Tarkir that doesn't take the creative team a year to reinvent
shrapnelmagnet
Member
Wizards is so flippu-floppy
No More Core Sets!
Couple years later: Okay, Core Sets!
Masterpieces In All Sets!
One year later: Okay, Some Seta!
2-Block Rotation Thing
Couple years later: Never Mind, Revert
Another year later: No Blocks!
Why bother saying anything will ever be anything if it changes every couple sets?
No More Core Sets!
Couple years later: Okay, Core Sets!
Masterpieces In All Sets!
One year later: Okay, Some Seta!
2-Block Rotation Thing
Couple years later: Never Mind, Revert
Another year later: No Blocks!
Why bother saying anything will ever be anything if it changes every couple sets?
FreedomFrisbee
Member
Man, they'd only burn thru mechanics faster if they added sets. They never did. They're going through them slower now that there's less sets.
Yeah, this makes sense. As well as being able to take a core set to say, Zendikar.
A lot of these changes were good ideas that didn't work in practice.
The biggest problems were behind the scenes.
Giant Panda
Member
Thank god they aren't going back to 3 set blocks, but I am still highly disappointed by the change. 2 set blocks was perfect.
darkside31337
Tomodachi wa Mahou
I mean what are they supposed to do? People are going to notice core sets are gone and some new fancy new cards are showing up in packs. Its better to admit their mistakes early though rather than get entrenched in them before its too late to start ripping the bandaids off (like the reserve list)
No blocks is going to take some getting used to. Even when a setting takes up two or so large sets in a row, it'll still be weird to have so many sets only taking up one block at a time.
Will probably be a lot better for drafting. Nothing sucks the fun out of draft like getting a shitty small set to dilute the pool of cards (or a really great small set that never gets a chance to shine).
Less Gatewatch is great. They already said there'd be less of them in the future, but direct confirmation we're going to see some more sets with 0 members of the Gatewatch is fantastic news. Having the last 4 sets contain every single fucking core member is too much, and it turns every story into "what are the Gatewatch up to?" instead of "what's interesting about this world?"
All in all, quite excited for the future of Magic right now.
Will probably be a lot better for drafting. Nothing sucks the fun out of draft like getting a shitty small set to dilute the pool of cards (or a really great small set that never gets a chance to shine).
Less Gatewatch is great. They already said there'd be less of them in the future, but direct confirmation we're going to see some more sets with 0 members of the Gatewatch is fantastic news. Having the last 4 sets contain every single fucking core member is too much, and it turns every story into "what are the Gatewatch up to?" instead of "what's interesting about this world?"
All in all, quite excited for the future of Magic right now.
divisionbyzorro
Member
The more I think about this all, the more I like it. Take Tarkir for example. If it had been able to just be two large sets without Fate Reforged trying to be some sort of glue between them, the whole experience would have been so much better.
They're iterating to find what works. Far better than letting problems continue to run on.
The most promising thing to come out of this for me is the now fluid nature of mechanics and planes. They aren't tied to burning through mechanics too quickly, nor are they required to stick with those with shallow design space. Similarly, not every story will be "set up plane > world ending crisis" anymore; they can do smaller scale stories- or larger- it doesn't matter anymore.
Cautiously optimistic regarding most of these changes.
Did I miss rotation talk in there anywhere? How will it work now? One large set rotating out every year or 2?
What? There are 4 expert level sets with one off mechanics now; not 3. Additionally, mechanics tend to be tied to blocks, not individual sets, so the rate at which they burn through them has increased as they've found themselves leaving planes and their associated mechanics- like Kaladesh and energy- more quickly.
The most promising thing to come out of this for me is the now fluid nature of mechanics and planes. They aren't tied to burning through mechanics too quickly, nor are they required to stick with those with shallow design space. Similarly, not every story will be "set up plane > world ending crisis" anymore; they can do smaller scale stories- or larger- it doesn't matter anymore.
Cautiously optimistic regarding most of these changes.
Did I miss rotation talk in there anywhere? How will it work now? One large set rotating out every year or 2?
What? There are 4 expert level sets with one off mechanics now; not 3. Additionally, mechanics tend to be tied to blocks, not individual sets, so the rate at which they burn through them has increased as they've found themselves leaving planes and their associated mechanics- like Kaladesh and energy- more quickly.
tbf to that structure, I had wanted them to do that very thing for a very long time.
Biggest question for me now is what is the 4th pro tour. When half a core set is reprints, it's as tougher sell as a promotional thing for the new set, so do they change it to team format or modern, or leave it as is?
Willingness to try new things and being able to admit they were wrong isn't a bad thing.
Willingness to try new things and being able to admit they were wrong isn't a bad thing.
Giant Panda
Member
Looks like they are still doing a once a year rotation. I'd have preferred a more often rotation, just on the 24 month cycle.
Weird argument, since reprints of old cards can bring great fun too. Lightning Bolt is a good example from the past. You'll be getting even more new cards with the larger sets, and to be honest, many of them are still filler that people will hardly remember.
Would you be OK with new Pokémon games removing access to the old generations that came before it?
Rotation remains unchanged, Fall set marks rotation of the oldest 4 blocks (fall, winter, spring, summer).
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