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[Lucario]

Speaking of cycling: is anyone else consistently flooding out in AHK draft?

I'm running 16-17 lands depending on curve, I'm valuing cyclers fairly highly, and occasionally I might be a bit too aggressive cycling things away early on.

I'm trying to pick up as many mana sinks as I can (Wander In Death, tappers, etc.), and even shaving my 17th land in fairly high curves, but it remains a huge problem after ~20 rounds of the format.

I know cycling being exclusively on spells at common/uncommon changes the math, hence my tendency to shave a land, but it can't possibly change it so much that I need to be cutting to 15 lands in decks that are trying to cast Desert Cerodon?

 

[kirblar]

Speaking of cycling: is anyone else consistently flooding out in AHK draft?

I'm running 16-17 lands depending on curve, I'm valuing cyclers fairly highly, and occasionally I might be a bit too aggressive cycling things away early on.

I'm trying to pick up as many mana sinks as I can (Wander In Death, tappers, etc.), and even shaving my 17th land in fairly high curves, but it remains a huge problem after ~20 rounds of the format.

I know cycling being exclusively on spells at common/uncommon changes the math, hence my tendency to shave a land, but it can't possibly change it so much that I need to be cutting to 15 lands in decks that are trying to cast Desert Cerodon?

It's not exclusively on spells though? Are you just not playing the raise dead effects or big fatties?

 

[Haly]

EDH sounds like socialism. Everything works fine as long as no one plays to win but the moment someone does then everyone does and the system collapses into capitalism.

 

[Lucario]

It's not exclusively on spells though? Are you just not playing the raise dead effects or big fatties?

By spells I mean nonlands. I'm playing a lot of the big fatties.

Wander in Death is quickly becoming one of my favorite cards in the format - it's absurd. Still isn't helping the problem enough.

 

[Imperfected]

EDH sounds like socialism. Everything works fine as long as no one plays to win but the moment someone does then everyone does and the system collapses into capitalism.

It's basically Hippy Commune Magic when it works, and Russian Communism Magic when it doesn't, yes.

Speaking of cycling: is anyone else consistently flooding out in AHK draft?

Not at all, but running green without too many mana dorks probably had a lot to do with that. I'll top out into some crocs without complaints.

 

[kirblar]

EDH sounds like socialism. Everything works fine as long as no one plays to win but the moment someone does then everyone does and the system collapses into capitalism.

Yup.

And people wonder why MTG players have a libertarian bent. (I am not one lol)

 

[Yeef]

Speaking of cycling: is anyone else consistently flooding out in AHK draft?

I'm running 16-17 lands depending on curve, I'm valuing cyclers fairly highly, and occasionally I might be a bit too aggressive cycling things away early on.

I'm trying to pick up as many mana sinks as I can (Wander In Death, tappers, etc.), and even shaving my 17th land in fairly high curves, but it remains a huge problem after ~20 rounds of the format.

I know cycling being exclusively on spells at common/uncommon changes the math, hence my tendency to shave a land, but it can't possibly change it so much that I need to be cutting to 15 lands in decks that are trying to cast Desert Cerodon?

In all 5 prereleases I did over the weekend, I started with 17 lands, seemed to be getting flooded then cut to 16 lands and had no issues. I just think this is a 16-land format. The aggro decks don't need many lands and the slower decks all have tons of cyclers to make sure you're hitting your land drops. I might run 17 if I'm running a cycle-dual, but otherwise, going forward, I plan to treat 16 as the default.

 

[platypotamus]

EDH sounds like socialism. Everything works fine as long as no one plays to win but the moment someone does then everyone does and the system collapses into capitalism.

My favorite critique of socialism/communism is that it only works in theory, not practice, becausr this critique absolutely in NO WAY applies to capitalism whatsoever

 

[Ashodin]

There's always that one guy who somehow gets Sol Ring in every game he plays

 

[charlequin]

The way I'm seeing it, either way was bad optics - the people who get upset by "no changes" are louder online than the people who don't, but the people that get upset that their deck is banned is probably a bigger group.

Nah. We've literally even seen this scenario play out before -- effectively no one actually speaks up to whine when they've gotten a season or two to play their obviously broken deck and it gets banned after everyone bitches about it and tourneys stop firing. You don't make this call to pander to those people, you do it because excessive status-quo bias convinces you the current garbage state is better than some hypothetical even worse format you create later on.

Pandering to the "don't ban my deck" guys is a plus-optics decision for themselves as well, because they can continue to double down on the insistence that Standard is fine and their new set is going to solve everything, and Temur Tower, guys!

Again, this isn't optics, this is just being delusional and/or craven. Definitionally any decision where if you polled people beforehand they would 90% agree the response would be vocally hugely negative, then it happens and the response is vocally hugely negative, cannot be for optics reasons.

No idea why Sol Ring is legal.

Same reason it got reprinted in Revised (i.e. bad card evaluation skills and, once again, status-quo bias.)

EDH sounds like socialism. Everything works fine as long as no one plays to win but the moment someone does then everyone does and the system collapses into capitalism.

Okay, this is definitely this thread's new high-watermark Bad Take.

 

[OnPoint]

There's always that one guy who somehow gets Sol Ring in every game he plays

Dude my one friend... ugh.

 

[GoutPatrol]

There's always that one guy who somehow gets Sol Ring in every game he plays

That's why you play Trinket Mage. And Trophy Mage. And Treasure Mage. In every EDH deck.

 

[Imperfected]

There's always that one guy who somehow gets Sol Ring in every game he plays

Last game I played was three-way doubles, and one team started their first turn with a Sol Ring in play each. The other then dropped a Gilded Lotus on curve.

... and then they did basically nothing while me and my teammate ran over them with a combination of Arjun and Child of Alara commander damage, until the other team popped Child and left them with an empty board, not really enough lands in play, and 1 Life.

That's honestly how it usually goes when I get a really hard-ramping opening hand, too. I end up ramping onto a normal curve because all those mana rocks apparently told my normal land drops to get bent, or even worse, ramping into nothing because they didn't tell my lands to get bent and I've got nothing but mana to play with.

I don't play a lot of conventional ramp in my Gods Tribal deck (a few ramp enchants like Trace of Abundance that pump out good Devotion, and Borderposts), and honestly it seems like it tends to run a lot smoother than my tryhard decks.

 

[Ashodin]

With the bannings not happening in Standard... my exert deck might not cut it. I have to basically stick to the same deck I've been playing because the other deck I was brewing for won't be viable and/or won't cut it against the top dogs.

I mean I can try it, but who knows.

 

[red13th]

lol Standard

 

[SigmasonicX]

I like how in today's Daily Update, they hype up a RW Exert deck by talking about how it moves too fast for Copycat.

 

[Ashodin]

I like how in today's Daily Update, they hype up a RW Exert deck by talking about how it moves too fast for Copycat.

That's a terrible deck. No Heart of Kiran, no Gideon, AoZ...

They also basically talk up how it beats Mardu Vehicles too lmao.

These guys have no idea what they're doing.

 

[Tunoku]

Did my first paper draft today, went 2-1. In the first round I got beaten by a combination of RW beatdown and manaflood in both games. Also in the 8 games I played I drew Hazoret once and Glorybringer once. (And yes, I won those two games) My deck was OK, but I couldn't really utilize the one-drop perfectly despite the high amount of ciclers in it.

 

[Zocano]

What was their reasoning for banning Emrakul? I haven't been paying attention to standard since Fate Reforged/DTK but it is just odd to me to ban the face of your block/set in Standard and not have it around for at least a bit of time. JTMS and Stoneforge pretty much stayed for the entirety of their standard runs before seeing a (not very useful) ban from their standard, right?

 

[kirblar]

What was their reasoning for banning Emrakul? I haven't been paying attention to standard since Fate Reforged/DTK but it is just odd to me to ban the face of your block/set in Standard and not have it around for at least a bit of time. JTMS and Stoneforge pretty much stayed for the entirety of their standard runs before seeing a (not very useful) ban from their standard, right?

She was coming down super early because it was so easy to achieve Delirium. Combined w/ Aetherworks Marvel in the format, it was just ugly.

 

[Zocano]

I suppose so. Just poor reading of the set and balance on their part... which also led them to being skiddish on banning infinity cat. Seems like a lot of missteps on their part.

Unban Emrakul and leave the cat in. Let standard be a hellfire.

 

[Ashodin]

The problem is they ALWAYS think the format is self-correcting.

"We've got some sweet tech coming that should help!"

Meanwhile the format languishes until the help arrives, and it's NEVER enough.

Bannings help shake things up, and honestly Standard should be the format where bans happen the most. It's necessary to have a healthy format.

Also check out the huge community response to the last bannings - it created a TON of interest in Standard and talk. It's a win-win.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Giving Emrakul a cost reduction clause was a monumental fuckup.

 

[Ashodin]

Giving Emrakul a cost reduction clause was a monumental fuckup.

I saw the reasoning for that too - "we want our players the ability to play it even if Emrakul costs 13, having such a huge creature that you can't play sucks"

 

[MoxManiac]

Sol Ring has been printed in 25 different commander precons. There is no way in hell it's ever getting banned.

 

[DrArchon]

Giving Emrakul a cost reduction clause was a monumental fuckup.

Having Marvel let you cast cards it gets instead of just putting them onto the battlefield was another one. Every other way to cheat big stupid creatures just puts them onto the battlefield. I have no idea why Marvel gets you the cast triggers for them as well.

 

[y2dvd]

Well now. Legacy night usually struggles to get 8 players. Tonight we have 16 players show up.

 

[Ashodin]

I still want to make the Marvel Second Sun deck.

The idea just tickles me in a Johnny way.

 

[y2dvd]

I still want to make the Marvel Second Sun deck.

The idea just tickles me in a Johnny way.

I thought about this but casting from hand makes it a hard win condition.

 

[ElyrionX]

EDH is x turns of non-aggression or some light skirmishing and then the passive combo deck just ends the game again. When it's "competitive" EDH, everyone is on a combo deck anyway

This is why I got tired of it. When you start exploring the format, it seems great because you can do so much cool shit and play so many obscure cards. And then you come to realize that the cutthroat decks all play the same core 20-30 cards and the same strategies......

 

[kirblar]

This is why I got tired of it. When you start exploring the format, it seems great because you can do so much cool shit and play so many obscure cards. And then you come to realize that the cutthroat decks all play the same core 20-30 cards and the same strategies......

And this is why people just start playing Duel Commander, where the pretense of civility is appropriately buried.

 

[Ashodin]

Speaking of EDH, my Nahiri Knight (Paladin) tribal deck is complete and ready for FNM.

1 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
1 Mistveil Plains
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
31 Plains
1 Temple of the False God
1 Akroma's Memorial
1 Argentum Armor
1 Armory Automaton
1 Avacyn, Angel of Hope
1 Brass Squire
1 Caged Sun
1 Cavalry Master
1 Door of Destinies
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Evangelize
1 Faith's Reward
1 Fiendslayer Paladin
1 Godsend
1 Helm of Kaldra
1 Hero of Bladehold
1 Honor of the Pure
1 Illumination
1 Kinsbaile Cavalier
1 Knight Exemplar
1 Knight of Meadowgrain
1 Knight of Sursi
1 Knight of the Holy Nimbus
1 Knight of the White Orchid
1 Knight-Captain of Eos
1 Lapse of Certainty
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Lightwielder Paladin
1 Masterwork of Ingenuity
1 Mentor of the Meek
1 Mirran Crusader
1 Nahiri, the Lithomancer
1 Northern Paladin
1 Oblation
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Open the Armory
1 Order of the Sacred Torch
1 Outrider en-Kor
1 Paladin en-Vec
1 Path to Exile
1 Pentarch Paladin
1 Puresteel Paladin
1 Quest for the Holy Relic
1 Rebuff the Wicked
1 Return to Dust
1 Riftmarked Knight
1 Shield of Kaldra
1 Sigarda's Aid
1 Silver Knight
1 Silverblade Paladin
1 Skullclamp
1 Smuggler's Copter
1 Sol Ring
1 Southern Paladin
1 Sram, Senior Edificer
1 Steelshaper's Gift
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Strata Scythe
1 Sun Titan
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Kaldra
1 Sword of Vengeance
1 Thran Dynamo
1 True Conviction
1 Weathered Wayfarer
1 White Knight

Got a lot of good synergies going on in there, plus some hilarious counterspells that will come out of nowhere to surprise an opponent.

 

[Imperfected]

You do realize that you immediately go to Hell if you play a Kithkin, right?

I mean, I'm condemned anyway so it's whatever, but it seems only fair to warn you of the danger to your immortal soul.

 

[Ashodin]

Somehow I had blocked out Smuggler's Copter was a card, the banning hit me really hard lmao

It's stupid good in commander though.

 

[StrategyFan]

is it safe to assume that kaladesh block and amonkhet block are leaving standard together?

not sure how often wizards changes its mind about these things

 

[Firemind]

I still don't know how the new new rotation works.

 

[OnPoint]

is it safe to assume that kaladesh block and amonkhet block are leaving standard together?

not sure how often wizards changes its mind about these things

It's not safe to assume anything these days except for Wizards having no realistic handle on Standard.

 

[Firemind]

Giving Emrakul a cost reduction clause was a monumental fuckup.

I lost to baby Emmy in cube more than a few times when I had an unlosable board state. Card is insane.

 

[HK-47]

Emmy would hav been fine if their was good graveyard hate in the set. Once you had marvel though and no gy hate... well good luck

 

[Ashodin]

Funnily enough we would be having a totally crazy standard dominated by (or maybe even banned by now!) if BFZ block had already rotated

 

[Frankie Williamson]

I vandalblasted someone's Sol Ring t1 once and he went on a rant for like 10 minutes on how I had 'bad threat assessment' for not keeping that until I could overload it lol, he was salty as all hell.

I did this like two days ago, because we're really lax on mulliganing and one friend did it like 5 times. We joked that he did it till he had a Sol Ring in his hand and sure enough he turn one'd it.

I have never used a non-overloaded Vandalblast before, but that was the time. After that game we started enforcing the proper mulligan rules.

 

[Yeef]

is it safe to assume that kaladesh block and amonkhet block are leaving standard together?

not sure how often wizards changes its mind about these things

I still don't know how the new new rotation works.

When the fall set comes out, the two oldest blocks (the oldest four sets) rotate. Same as it's always been, it's just now it's two blocks instead of a block and a core set.

When Ixalan hits, BFZ & SOI blocks will rotate.

http://whatsinstandard.com/

 

[Ashodin]

I did this like two days ago, because we're really lax on mulliganing and one friend did it like 5 times. We joked that he did it till he had a Sol Ring in his hand and sure enough he turn one'd it.

I have never used a non-overloaded Vandalblast before, but that was the time. After that game we started enforcing the proper mulligan rules.

We don't old school mulligan any more if we can. It breaks a lot.

 

[Daedardus]

Giving Emrakul a cost reduction clause was a monumental fuckup.

They always fuck up with cost reduction mechanics. Affinity, delve, Eye of Ugin... You would think they have learnt by now.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

They always fuck up with cost reduction mechanics. Affinity, delve, Eye of Ugin... You would think they have learnt by now.

I actually personally like cost reduction mechanics, despite their potential to be broken. I like that cards like Tasigur, Gurmag Angler, and Murderous Cut came out of Khans, even though that meant we had to deal with and eventually ban Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time.

With Emrakul, it's not like there was even a cost reduction set mechanic. They didn't even put Delirium on her. They just slapped an arbitrary cost reduction clause on it because "reasons."

 

[Zocano]

Well her cost reduction is just modular delirium, or rather delirium is just static/fixed version of "card types amongst your graveyard".

They could have easily reworded it just have Delirium (the word) in there and it would fit in line with the other delirium cards but be Delirium "X" or something.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Well her cost reduction is just modular delirium, or rather delirium is just static/fixed version of "card types amongst your graveyard".

They could have easily reworded it just have Delirium (the word) in there and it would fit in line with the other delirium cards but be Delirium "X" or something.

But that's part of the problem. They didn't slap a toggle on it. They made it scale, which basically locks you into (1) less for each card type. If she cost a flat (3) less if you had Delirium, that would have been much less worse.

 

[A_Dang]

Thought about the recent banning announcement:

What is the general opinion for having a "Watch list" like the rules committee does for EDH?

I like it, but I am probably missing some obvious problems it could create...

 

[Simply Sarah]

Speaking of EDH and bans, I'd actually be totally OK with Ad Nauseum getting a ban. Sure, it's rubbish in a lot of decks because they have high CMCs but in a lower cost deck you can often safely draw 20-40 cards at instant speed thanks to starting with 40 life. Basically it has two settings: 1. Be unplayable. 2. Cheaper Yawgmoth's Bargain that becomes "free" because you cast it EOT and also you're not drawing so you get around stuff like Notion Thief, Consecrated Sphinx, Spirit of the Labyrinth, etc.

Emmy would hav been fine if their was good graveyard hate in the set. Once you had marvel though and no gy hate... well good luck

Good graveyard hate would have made her fine in EDM Standard but once Marvel came out even that wouldn't have helped.

 

[OnPoint]

Thought about the recent banning announcement:

What is the general opinion for having a "Watch list" like the rules committee does for EDH?

I like it, but I am probably missing some obvious problems it could create...

I think it's a good idea. It would give people some kind of inkling that things are potentially on the chopping block.