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Magic: the Gathering |OT12| Hour of Devastation - Hour of Jace getting dunked on
- Thread starter SigmasonicX
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A Serious Man
Member
I understand the trepidation since usually with a digital model there's no carry-over (ie, whatever DLC/F2P content you buy in an MMO or MOBA or whatever generally won't carry over to the sequel), but I think Magic's market and attendant market expectations are different enough from the usual digital offerings that it's far more sensible to work from a basis of content carry-over.
Their market is more about selling new sets, anyway, so making people have to re-collect a bunch of old cards doesn't profit them enough to be worth the loss of goodwill and consumer confidence.
The big issue is I expect them to change financial models to something more Hearthstone-ish and with a F2P model, there won't be an actual market where individual cards have varying prices. It may also become much easier to buy, or craft, any card you want. The cards may carry over but their value will plummet.
Infinite Stars
Member
Nothing like seeing both Marshall and Sprankle at my LGS Tonight and getting super confused until I remembered the Pre-Pre-Realease is tomorrow, lol.
Oh yeah, they were at YJ? Awesome.Nothing like seeing both Marshall and Sprankle at my LGS Tonight and getting super confused until I remembered the Pre-Pre-Realease is tomorrow, lol.
Imperfected
Member
KARN!
Aw shit, what if Karn, Elspeth, Dack Fayden, and Ajani get together to fight Phyrexia
they could be the Walkers of Oz
From my perspective, it would be more like having an actual Justice League to the Gatewatch's Teen Titans.
Muskieratboi
Member
Red looks amazing in draft for this set. It even has various cards to give it reach to end a game with burn damage if the board stalls out. Black seems weak in this format, a lot of the black commons and uncommon are a little too tied to the cycle/discard synergies without too much actual pay off.
Gruul is gonna be *huge* in AKH/HOU/HOU Draft, IMO.
Ambuscade + Fling on a nice fat creature, for example...
I am curious how Dominaria will be pitched. There are a number of issues I see with it.
1) post apocalyptic sounds like an idea - only we've just had Hour of Devastation and it's clear that Amonkhet return sets will be post-apocalyptic. And Ixilan looks to also have a wild frontier / ancient buried history angle as well.
2) the vast majority of players have never been on Dominaria, so referential stuff is going to fail even more than Time Spiral did.
3) Dominaria is so huge, and yet in many places so mundane (Otaria for example). In terms of strong themes that can carry an entire set, only Mirage to me stands out as being different enough and cohesive enough to do that.
Who knows, maybe they will do the unexpected and use the return to Dominaria to build a completely standard high fantasy world with no twist?
1) post apocalyptic sounds like an idea - only we've just had Hour of Devastation and it's clear that Amonkhet return sets will be post-apocalyptic. And Ixilan looks to also have a wild frontier / ancient buried history angle as well.
2) the vast majority of players have never been on Dominaria, so referential stuff is going to fail even more than Time Spiral did.
3) Dominaria is so huge, and yet in many places so mundane (Otaria for example). In terms of strong themes that can carry an entire set, only Mirage to me stands out as being different enough and cohesive enough to do that.
Who knows, maybe they will do the unexpected and use the return to Dominaria to build a completely standard high fantasy world with no twist?
Not really related, but I didn't want to make a thread for this, but does anyone know where I can get Magic cards in Rome? I'm trying to get things for my brother, and we both like MTG.
I'm staying about 15 minutes away from the Colosseum, so prefeably within a few km of here.
I'm also not able to drive, since I don't have the money to rent a car
I'm staying about 15 minutes away from the Colosseum, so prefeably within a few km of here.
I'm also not able to drive, since I don't have the money to rent a car
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
RuinerPrime
Member
seems like everyone is real down on this set ITT I'm actually looking forward to it, but its probably cuz I only play edh...lots of toys in this set for edh players
I disagree with that
Yeah, everything is either overcosted or just plain boring. Even for EDH there isn't much outside the most casual of cards.
This set just has no lure for modern, EDH, or legacy.
I disagree with that
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Nah I agree there's no real interesting new cards for EDH. Just cards that might replace a couple older cards, bunch of new wraths, etc.
Neheb is the only new legendary that makes me interested in making a deck as well.
Neheb is the only new legendary that makes me interested in making a deck as well.
RuinerPrime
Member
Nah I agree there's no real interesting new cards for EDH. Just cards that might replace a couple older cards, bunch of new wraths, etc.
Neheb is the only new legendary that makes me interested in making a deck as well.
well ill agree to disagree. I built The Scorpion God a week ago and its nice to have a rakdos commander that I actually like and its nice to have some card advantage & a new play style in those colors. I think all 3 gods are interesting(with the locust being a bit too powerful, at least for my play group) and cards like Solemnity & Ramunap Excavator are certainly going into a couple decks. And its nice to have a powerful red commander in Neheb finally that can hold a mono red deck together. I'm not saying it the best set in the world, the aftermath cards and Samut are super boring, but the Gods got me excited to build a new deck finally. The Scorpion God brings my EDH deck count up to 13.
GoutPatrol
Forgotten in his cell
UW Control seems so good in Modern right now. Great game 1 against Grixis Shadow and Eldrazi Tron.
I also played against the slowest person I have ever, ever seen play magic (and he was on Madcap Moon.) He made Jim Davis look peppy. Instead of Emperions he was playing Platinum Angel. After a 40 minute game 1, he had 2 out with a Snapcaster, and a Blood Moon locking me out of casting a Verdict in my hand the whole game. He spent 2 minutes tanking and fiddling with lands to Logic Knot my Ancestral Visions, not using anything from his graveyard. I go to cast a D-Sphere on the Moon, he goes to Snap/Pact of Negation it, I am able to mana leak it because of his Logic Knot punt, I then Verdict and go on to win the game, and then need to leave because it was running too long, so I gave him the win. Didn't drop a match tonight.
I also played against the slowest person I have ever, ever seen play magic (and he was on Madcap Moon.) He made Jim Davis look peppy. Instead of Emperions he was playing Platinum Angel. After a 40 minute game 1, he had 2 out with a Snapcaster, and a Blood Moon locking me out of casting a Verdict in my hand the whole game. He spent 2 minutes tanking and fiddling with lands to Logic Knot my Ancestral Visions, not using anything from his graveyard. I go to cast a D-Sphere on the Moon, he goes to Snap/Pact of Negation it, I am able to mana leak it because of his Logic Knot punt, I then Verdict and go on to win the game, and then need to leave because it was running too long, so I gave him the win. Didn't drop a match tonight.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
there's a ton of monored commander's already that can hold decks together, the new Neheb is simply a unique take. Card advantage is not the issue for RB in EDH either, it's being almost entirely unable to be rid of enchantments.well ill agree to disagree. I built The Scorpion God a week ago and its nice to have a rakdos commander that I actually like and its nice to have some card advantage & a new play style in those colors. I think all 3 gods are interesting(with the locust being a bit too powerful, at least for my play group) and cards like Solemnity & Ramunap Excavator are certainly going into a couple decks. And its nice to have a powerful red commander in Neheb finally that can hold a mono red deck together. I'm not saying it the best set in the world, the aftermath cards and Samut are super boring, but the Gods got me excited to build a new deck finally. The Scorpion God brings my EDH deck count up to 13.
RuinerPrime
Member
there's a ton of monored commander's already that can hold decks together, the new Neheb is simply a unique take. Card advantage is not the issue for RB in EDH either, it's being almost entirely unable to be rid of enchantments.
ehh I wouldn't say a ton, I typically only see Daretti or Krenko on tables when it comes to mono red. I really like the new Neheb.
I was referring to RB commanders that give card advantage, Lyzolda was the only RB legend that has "draw a card" on it. Yeah enchantments are definitely the biggest pain, at the moment I have some colorless removal & chaos warp for em. Still a weakness for sure.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Purphoros/Norin, Slobad, Zada, Feldon,...ehh I wouldn't say a ton, I typically only see Daretti or Krenko on tables when it comes to mono red. I really like the new Neheb.
I was referring to RB commanders that give card advantage, Lyzolda was the only RB legend that has "draw a card" on it. Yeah enchantments are definitely the biggest pain, at the moment I have some colorless removal & chaos warp for em. Still a weakness for sure.
Red is a bad colour in EDH but it has an abundance of powerful commanders.
A commander is inherent card advantage and card advantage is more than drawing cards, there's a handful of commanders in rakdos that generate CA.
Heck my Neheb deck is all about outgrinding my opponents generating card advantage by making my opponents discard their hands.
EDIT: Red is inherently weaker than blue, green and black in EDH since it has trouble with card advantage and certain permanents, but monored has a huge amount of powerful commanders, probably the biggest amount amongst monocolor.
https://www.twitch.tv/scgtour
SCG is streaming, we have 2 more rounds of modern and then 4 rounds of standard.
https://www.twitch.tv/scgtour
SCG is streaming, we have 2 more rounds of modern and then 4 rounds of standard.
SigmasonicX
Member
I am curious how Dominaria will be pitched. There are a number of issues I see with it.
1) post apocalyptic sounds like an idea - only we've just had Hour of Devastation and it's clear that Amonkhet return sets will be post-apocalyptic. And Ixilan looks to also have a wild frontier / ancient buried history angle as well.
2) the vast majority of players have never been on Dominaria, so referential stuff is going to fail even more than Time Spiral did.
3) Dominaria is so huge, and yet in many places so mundane (Otaria for example). In terms of strong themes that can carry an entire set, only Mirage to me stands out as being different enough and cohesive enough to do that.
Who knows, maybe they will do the unexpected and use the return to Dominaria to build a completely standard high fantasy world with no twist?
My feeling is that they'll go back to Antiquities and Urza's Saga for inspiration, making an artifact and enchantment block (perhaps artifacts vs. enchantments). Like in Antiquities, people will be digging up old artifacts and drawing inspiration from them. Like in Urza's Saga, there will be a heavy enchantment theme that gets overshadowed by the powerful artifacts.
And I suspect that Jamuura is different enough, and MaRo has emphasized how it was meant to be a different plane to begin with, that they'll split it off into its own world.
RuinerPrime
Member
Purphoros/Norin, Slobad, Zada, Feldon,...
Red is a bad colour in EDH but it has an abundance of powerful commanders.
A commander is inherent card advantage and card advantage is more than drawing cards, there's a handful of commanders in rakdos that generate CA.
Heck my Neheb deck is all about outgrinding my opponents generating card advantage by making my opponents discard their hands.
Didn't say they don't exist there just rare in the groups I play in.
Oh yeah Purphoros is pain play against, forgot about him. That's a good point about RB Nebeh. With the Scorpion God being able to draw off dies triggers is glorious. Was able to draw 18 after a wrath. Felt real good. Easily my favorite Rakdos commander (and I finally found a home for kulrath knight)
You think they'll do another artifact block so close to Kaladesh?My feeling is that they'll go back to Antiquities and Urza's Saga for inspiration, making an artifact and enchantment block (perhaps artifacts vs. enchantments). Like in Antiquities, people will be digging up old artifacts and drawing inspiration from them. Like in Urza's Saga, there will be a heavy enchantment theme that gets overshadowed by the powerful artifacts.
charlequin
Banned
The big issue is I expect them to change financial models to something more Hearthstone-ish and with a F2P model, there won't be an actual market where individual cards have varying prices. It may also become much easier to buy, or craft, any card you want. The cards may carry over but their value will plummet.
Yes, this is almost certain to happen. MTGO's model is the way it is because F2P didn't exist as a concept and they designed the economy 100% around redemption as they believed they needed to back digital goods with physical ones for people to pay for them. In 2017 they can just honestly make much more money making sure that anyone who wants can play and people can complete decks for testing etc. without too much difficulty.
I am curious how Dominaria will be pitched.
Couple thoughts on this.
1) post apocalyptic sounds like an idea - only we've just had Hour of Devastation and it's clear that Amonkhet return sets will be post-apocalyptic.
I feel fairly confident this isn't their angle. Both Future Sight (which has stuff like Llanowar Reborn that indicates the plane is healing) and the little glimpses we've gotten of Dominaria post-Mending show it as a plane that's still in a weird place but healing up from its worst point.
2) the vast majority of players have never been on Dominaria, so referential stuff is going to fail even more than Time Spiral did.
So one thing Rosewaterr talked about is that nostalgic references aren't actually a big problem for new players on their own. The problem with Time Spiral is that it's so dense (2+ references on every single card) to stuff that is so insignificant (Cloudchaser Kestrel is my go-to example here) and so weird out of context that it's basically impossible to grasp it without the historical framework of a long-time player.
Conversely, people like references to stuff from before they were around if it's fairly clear that's what's happening and easy to get more info about. Karn was still super popular with players who weren't around for the Weatherlight Saga, for example.
3) Dominaria is so huge, and yet in many places so mundane (Otaria for example). In terms of strong themes that can carry an entire set, only Mirage to me stands out as being different enough and cohesive enough to do that.
I would strongly expect them to go with Terisiare as their blueprint here, as it's the most successful stretch of worldbuilding on the plane and still closely associated with the most standard things people associate with it (the Brothers' War and the Ice Age.)
It's gonna be on Aerona. Huge portions of the continent (most notably Llanowar and Benalia) have either recovered from or outlasted the Phyrexian invasion and time rifts.
As far as plane identity and plot, I have no idea. If the Nexus of the Multiverse is still a thing, they could focus on what happens when a plane loses that status. This could also be tied in with the Eldrazi's greater purpose in the multiverse; what happens when a plane gets too old without them doing their thing?
I'd prefer generic high fantasy, but I doubt they'll do that.
As far as plane identity and plot, I have no idea. If the Nexus of the Multiverse is still a thing, they could focus on what happens when a plane loses that status. This could also be tied in with the Eldrazi's greater purpose in the multiverse; what happens when a plane gets too old without them doing their thing?
I'd prefer generic high fantasy, but I doubt they'll do that.
SigmasonicX
Member
You think they'll do another artifact block so close to Kaladesh?
They did Amonkhet after Shadows over Innistrad. But I don't expect them to push the artifact theme nearly as much as Kaladesh.
In fact, I'll just go ahead and predict the mechanics, which will tie old and new together.
Returning mechanics:
Kicker
Metalcraft
New mechanics:
Some enchantment mechanic
Banding variation
Llanowar Adventurer - 2G
Creature - Elf Rogue Ally
Adventurer (Creatures with adventurer attack as a party. If a creature blocks any member of a party, it blocks all party members. You choose the order party members deal damage.)
1G: Target creature you control gains adventurer until end of turn.
2/2
Maybe it doesn't care so much about having artifacts as finding/excavating them? Like ruins of dominaria?Metalcraft doesn't fit Dominaria at all in my opinion.
And they're not going to tweak Banding, c'mon.
SigmasonicX
Member
Maybe it doesn't care so much about having artifacts as finding/excavating them? Like ruins of dominaria?
Yeah, that's more what I was going for.
"I have Akroma's Memorial, Mishra's Assembly-Worker, and Urza's toilet seat. Now time to conquer Dominaria!"
They already did! (Avacyn Restored)Metalcraft doesn't fit Dominaria at all in my opinion.
And they're not going to tweak Banding, c'mon.
And that mechanic sucked too.
FreedomFrisbee
Member
Yes, this is almost certain to happen. MTGO's model is the way it is because F2P didn't exist as a concept and they designed the economy 100% around redemption as they believed they needed to back digital goods with physical ones for people to pay for them. In 2017 they can just honestly make much more money making sure that anyone who wants can play and people can complete decks for testing etc. without too much difficulty.
Right right, how could I forget that they still charge $10 to start an account. Really it's such a massive pile of things that can obviously be improved upon that basically anything they do will automatically be better.
blindrocket
Member
Yes, this is almost certain to happen. MTGO's model is the way it is because F2P didn't exist as a concept and they designed the economy 100% around redemption as they believed they needed to back digital goods with physical ones for people to pay for them. In 2017 they can just honestly make much more money making sure that anyone who wants can play and people can complete decks for testing etc. without too much difficulty.
But man, thousands upon thousands of dollars worth of collections being vaporized would be so bad. Not to mention the secondary MTGO card market disappearing.
So many bad feelings.
FreedomFrisbee
Member
Ain't no different from cards getting reprinted in real life. MTGO specifically allows all cards to be reprinted so your collection could tank in value at any time regardless of what they do with the next big thing.
I mean, the list is basically "everything."
I might be interested in some stuff if you haven't buylisted it all yet. Wish I checked the thread more often as I would have seen this sooner.
blindrocket
Member
Ain't no different from cards getting reprinted in real life. MTGO specifically allows all cards to be reprinted so your collection could tank in value at any time regardless of what they do with the next big thing.
This is definitely true, but different than shuttering the whole market.
I'm not sure how Hearthstone does it, I've never played let alone bought cards.
Part of me wants to cash out now and just buy back in later.
I don't see how Magic can replace MODO with a hearthstone like payment model. Online Magic is a vital part of how pros and other people test decks and brew, and with a hearthstone economy you can't be sure you'll have access to the cards you need because there's no trading.
(And a lack of trading is fairly important for that type of model to work).
(And a lack of trading is fairly important for that type of model to work).
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
It would not work with modern but standard could be done the same way Hearthstone does it.I don't see how Magic can replace MODO with a hearthstone like payment model. Online Magic is a vital part of how pros and other people test decks and brew, and with a hearthstone economy you can't be sure you'll have access to the cards you need because there's no trading.
(And a lack of trading is fairly important for that type of model to work).
blindrocket
Member
It would not work with modern but standard could be done the same way Hearthstone does it.
How does it work if Magic adopted that model? I honestly do not know.
Let's say I want to play Standard and I download the new client and I want to play whatever deck won the latest tournament?
Don't worry. Digital Next is a MOBA. Your mtgo collections are safe.
You joke, but I'd try out a MTG MOBA in a heartbeat. Probably not enough planeswalkers for it to have a sizable cast but still.
Even if it was just Dota 2 with a MTG skin (because I'd already know how to play). But knowing WotC they'd make you pay for the characters you really want like Karn.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
You buy a ton of packs and "destroy" whatever cards you don't want to create a currency with which you can create cards at a certain rate based on rarity.How does it work if Magic adopted that model? I honestly do not know.
Let's say I want to play Standard and I download the new client and I want to play whatever deck won the latest tournament?
Alternatively you could very slowly build up a collection of cards w/o paying a dime.
FreedomFrisbee
Member
This is definitely true, but different than shuttering the whole market.
I'm not sure how Hearthstone does it, I've never played let alone bought cards.
Part of me wants to cash out now and just buy back in later.
I'm inclined to think any tie in to physical product will make it impossible to directly copy the Hearthstone model. Like, Hearthstone does free boosters on top of free cards in way that isn't really sustainable under current MTGO. Does IRL pack codes make digital packs so worthless that it doesn't matter if they hand them out like candy? Maybe they make special smaller packs and give those out instead of full boosters for those kinds of things? I doubt they even touch a dusting system, a way for players to use their duplicate cards to get cards they don't have seems like it could undermine things.
The only thing that seems for certain is that it should be cheaper than current MTGO. Competition has assured that.
So I should sell my MTGO collection now? Can you even convert tix to cold hard cash?
My inclination would be to sell anything that has a high value and save the rest for the event that collections carry over. I don't have anything worth squat on MTGO account. I'm under the impression that there are people who buy tix, but it might not be at the rate you're hoping for.
A Serious Man
Member
So I should sell my MTGO collection now? Can you even convert tix to cold hard cash?
There are vendors who will give you cash for tix, MTGOTraders will give you .95 for per ticket for example. I cashed out my high value cards (save for some format staples and stuff I didn't want to hunt down again like gurulands) and banked about $2,500. If MDN ends up just being a fancy version of Duels and MTGO will keep on chugging, I'll reinvest but I really didn't feel like having my digital collection evaporate.
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
At a learn 2 play magic event right now.
Hope this goes well GAF.
Outside of Hearthstone I'm kinda a tcg noob.
Hope this goes well GAF.
Outside of Hearthstone I'm kinda a tcg noob.
It's probably better to sell the cards to them directly, right? I'll give it a go. I was caught by a crippling bug yesterday while I was cubing so I can't even start the client up without deleting every file and reinstalling.There are vendors who will give you cash for tix, MTGOTraders will give you .95 for per ticket for example. I cashed out my high value cards (save for some format staples and stuff I didn't want to hunt down again like gurulands) and banked about $2,500. If MDN ends up just being a fancy version of Duels and MTGO will keep on chugging, I'll reinvest but I really didn't feel like having my digital collection evaporate.
A Serious Man
Member
It's probably better to sell the cards to them directly, right? I'll give it a go. I was caught by a crippling bug yesterday while I was cubing so I can't even start the client up without deleting every file and reinstalling.
I put all my high value cards in my trade folder and then went around seeing who would give me the most tix but it was a pain in the ass. It's probably not worth the time, most of the big traders are close in price.
At a learn 2 play magic event right now.
Hope this goes well GAF.
Outside of Hearthstone I'm kinda a tcg noob.
Have fun!!!
Scorpion God is fantastic for a color combination that's lacking in great generals.Nah I agree there's no real interesting new cards for EDH. Just cards that might replace a couple older cards, bunch of new wraths, etc.
Neheb is the only new legendary that makes me interested in making a deck as well.
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