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[Lucario]

Hasn't there been a lot of hinting of graveyard interactions in Khans? I could see Jace Guildpact's +1 becoming a lot more relevant if so, that BUG shell already has a bunch of really strong cards...just Khans speculation though

So you're saying I should buy a thousand copies, then photoshop a Khans Deep Analysis and post it on Reddit?

 

[OnPoint]

Thassa and Master of Waves are both viewed as screw-ups power-level wise.

Really? I think Master is fine. And I think the problem with Thassa is that she's undercosted. Add a generic mana and she's still playable but more on-par with the other original Gods (still way better, honestly). Mono-U Devotion was a heavily telegraphed deck design-wise. I find it hard to believe it was a screw up.

 

[ultron87]

So you're saying I should buy a thousand copies, then photoshop a Khans Deep Analysis and post it on Reddit?

"The specimen seems to be bro-khan."

 

[kirblar]

Really? I think Master is fine. And I think the problem with Thassa is that she's undercosted. Add a generic mana and she's still playable but more on-par with the other original Gods (still way better, honestly). Mono-U Devotion was a heavily telegraphed deck design-wise. I find it hard to believe it was a screw up.

Her activated ability is also an issue in tandem with the scry.

Mono-U and Mono-B being as good as they were is/was a massive problem for the format.

 

[kirblar]

Hasn't there been a lot of hinting of graveyard interactions in Khans? I could see Jace Guildpact's +1 becoming a lot more relevant if so, that BUG shell already has a bunch of really strong cards...just Khans speculation though

Delve is near -100% confirmed to be the BUG mechanic.

 

[OnPoint]

Her activated ability is also an issue in tandem with the scry.

Mono-U and Mono-B being as good as they were is/was a massive problem for the format.

I think it's just a matter of Wizards failing to print proper answers in subsequent sets. Thoughtseize being in standard was a hugely stupid move (though I'm happy I have a playset) and Pack Rat is a pretty stupid card. But the truth is they gave Mono-B and Mono-U all the tools they needed to succeed, while not giving anyone tools to really fight them. It's like they designed Rock and Paper but forgot to put in Scissors.

 

[kirblar]

I think it's just a matter of Wizards failing to print proper answers in subsequent sets. Thoughtseize being in standard was a hugely stupid move (though I'm happy I have a playset) and Pack Rat is a pretty stupid card. But the truth is they gave Mono-B and Mono-U all the tools they needed to succeed, while not giving anyone tools to really fight them. It's like they designed Rock and Paper but forgot to put in Scissors.

The way those two decks operate, its hard to give people tools to fight them.

 

[bigkrev]

I can't imagine what Thoughtsieze would be at right now if it had been printed as a Rare/Mythic in MM instead of in a normal set.

In hindsight, Pack Rat was such a bad card to print. It ruined RTR limited, it's a giant part of Mono Black in Standard, ect

 

[kirblar]

I can't imagine what Thoughtsieze would be at right now if it had been printed as a Rare/Mythic in MM instead of in a normal set.

In hindsight, Pack Rat was such a bad card to print. It ruined RTR limited, it's a giant part of Mono Black in Standard, ect

If it had been submitted in GDS2 they would have shit all over it. People fucked up bad on that one.

 

[Angry Grimace]

The fact that they reprinted Tormod's Crypt makes me assume theres some kind of graveyard stuff in Khans given that Crypt does nothing in Standard right now and hoses basically noting in its own set other than the Mythic cycle.

 

[OnPoint]

The way those two decks operate, its hard to give people tools to fight them.

I guess filling black with a zillion removal spells, resilient threats and the best there is in dedicated hand destruction was a bad move, while giving blue incredible card selection abilities, targetable evasion and a cheap/effective army was probably not the best set of moves, but I find it hard to believe they didn't see this coming on the design team.

Honestly, if they printed something that functioned like Meekstone but locked down weenies, we might have something of an answer. A two or three cost artifact/enchantment that read "Creatures with power 3 or less can't attack" would go a long way toward locking out the way these decks nickel and dime you (though Pack Rat could be a long game strat).

 

[Firemind]

Guys, I'm having second thoughts of playing R/u Devotion in a Grand Prix of 7+ rounds. I've been playtesting it for months and it feels like the only bye is mono red aggro. Boros Burn is not a good matchup, Blue Devotion is not a good matchup, Black Devotion is like 40-60 unless they stumble on mana, U/W Control is kind of the same, but less scary since the don't run Pack Rats and win random percentages. Some hands of Jund Monsters you just can't beat. Green Devotion is way more explosive than you, especially if they get a Garruk, Caller of Beasts in play. Planeswalkers in general are problematic. I'm not really confident I can make day two with it.

So I've been looking for an alternative and stumbled upon a Japanese red aggro deck with Goblin Rabblemasters and Hall of Triumphs. The reason I feel this is a good metagame deck is because one of the best ways to beat Black Devotion and U/W/x Control is to overrun them with weenies and they will add to a good percentage of the field. Against green-based midrange decks, you have Hall of Triumph, Dynacharge, Firefist Striker and Legion Loyalist to make blocking difficult. Here's the list:

20 mountain
1 mutavault

4 rakdos cackler
4 firedrinker satyr
4 foundry street denizen
4 legion loyalist
4 ash zealot
4 burning-tree emissary
4 firefist striker
4 goblin rabblemaster

4 dynacharge

3 hall of triumph

SB:
4 chandra's phoenix
4 skullcrack
2 searing blood
2 chandra, pyromaster
1 mutavault
2 harness by force

Problem is every time I choose the mono red deck for big events, I draw horribly against the attrition decks. Not much else that appeals to me though. Boros Burn maybe, but I'm not confident I can pilot it well.

 

[Scythesurge]

So you're saying I should buy a thousand copies, then photoshop a Khans Deep Analysis and post it on Reddit?

"The specimen seems to be bro-khan."

lol

 

[SigmasonicX]

Tale of the goblin carrying Hot Soup

This story reminds me of Discworld a bit. Also, this is the first time in years that they've gone with the flavor of orcs leading goblins in battle.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Hasn't there been a lot of hinting of graveyard interactions in Khans? I could see Jace Guildpact's +1 becoming a lot more relevant if so, that BUG shell already has a bunch of really strong cards...just Khans speculation though

Man, I'm so pumped for Khans. The art is cool, the theme is cool, I'm ready. I've already traded a ton of rotating stuff to get a bunch of block + m15 shells primed hoping one of them falls into a great deck with the new set:

• Abzan Superfriends(featuring Elspeth, Garruk & Ajani MoH)
• Sultai Superfriends(featuring Ashiok, Garruk & Kiora)
• Orzhov Control(featuring Brimaz, Elspeth and Ashen Rider)
• Mono-White Soldier Tribal(featuring Vanguard of goddamn Brimaz with nykthos and convoke into Elspeth and Obelisk of Urd)

And got all the cool cards that I think will be good for rotation:

• Scuttling Doom Engine
• AEtherspouts
• Soldier of the Pantheon(aww yeah multicolor set)
• foil Last Breaths(aww yeah morph creatures)

 

[Angry Grimace]

The fact that Mythic rarity exists is proof that MTG players are basically just crackheads.

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";123337214]

• Junk Superfriends(featuring Elspeth, Garruk & Ajani MoH)
• BUG Superfriends(featuring Ashiok, Garruk & Kiora)
• Orzhov Control(featuring Brimaz, Elspeth and Ashen Rider)
• Mono-White Soldier Tribal(featuring Vanguard of goddamn Brimaz with nykthos and convoke into Elspeth and Obelisk of Urd)

[/QUOTE]

Fixed that for you.

 

[kirblar]

The fact that Mythic rarity exists is proof that MTG players are basically just crackheads.

Kinda. It's done good things for making standard deck manabases cheaper.

 

[bigkrev]

Kinda. It's done good things for making standard deck manabases cheaper.

Yep, lands used to be the most expensive cards in each set.
Granted, Standard cards used to never go over 25-30 dollars. When Ravager Affinity was the best deck in standard, Ravager was a 20 dollar card

 

["God's Beard!"]

Mythics are bad and Wizards should feel bad. The rarities should just be Common, Uncommon, Rare and Promo. So you only get Mythic Rares from showing up to FNM or buying a box or Duel Deck or whatever.

1 in 7 packs just being a blow-out bomb in draft is gross. They're not a win button in 99% of cases, but it's still annoying.

Of course, I wouldn't change it if I was Wizards, lol.

 

[kirblar]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";123342134]Mythics are bad and Wizards should feel bad. The rarities should just be Common, Uncommon, Rare and Promo. So you only get Mythic Rares from showing up to FNM or buying a box or Duel Deck or whatever.

1 in 7 packs just being a blow-out bomb in draft is gross. They're not a win button in 99% of cases, but it's still annoying.

Of course, I wouldn't change it if I was Wizards, lol.[/QUOTE]
They're more rare than they used to be, silly.

1 in 121 vs 1 in 80 for old large sets.

1 in 80 vs 1 in 60 for old small sets.

 

[ironmang]

Mythics don't bother me unless they're like Voice of Resurgence, a good card from an otherwise horrible 3rd set. The fact that it was ~$35 for so long despite not being in a top tier deck was annoying.

I guess Modern Masters mythics were pretty silly too unless they were something like the Swords.

 

["God's Beard!"]

1 in 80 what now?

 

[SigmasonicX]

They're more rare than they used to be, silly.

1 in 101 vs 1 in 80 for old large sets.

1 in 80 vs 1 in 60 for old small sets.

Er, I think you both quoted the wrong person and mixed up your comparisons.

 

[acheron_xl]

I was all gung-ho against mythics until I started making my own sets. There's definitely interesting design space there.

Things like Voice and Lotus Cobra are pretty gross, though.

 

[kirblar]

Er, I think you both quoted the wrong person and mixed up your comparisons.

I did not. A Mythic Rare is less common and less impactful on limited than it would have been as a pre-Mythic regular rare.

Things like Voice and Lotus Cobra are pretty gross, though.

Yeah, they have a real problem with Green utility creatures.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I was all gung-ho against mythics until I started making my own sets. There's definitely interesting design space there.

Things like Voice and Lotus Cobra are pretty gross, though.

If Mythics were actually super good all the time, it would be one thing, but they're frequently full cycles of dumb flavor cards, like all of the Gods who weren't Thassa. We already know we're going to get a full cycle of Wedge colored commanders ERRRRRRRRRRRRRR Legendary Clan leaders in Khans.

 

["God's Beard!"]

I still have no idea what Kirblar's numbers represent.

I guess I was wrong and it's 1 in 8 packs now but Mythics are still an annoyance.

 

[acheron_xl]

If Mythics were actually super good all the time, it would be one thing, but they're frequently full cycles of dumb flavor cards, like all of the Gods who weren't Thassa. We already know we're going to get a full cycle of Wedge colored commanders ERRRRRRRRRRRRRR Legendary Clan leaders in Khans.

Those big, dumb flavor cards are great when they're not a pitiful bore to play against. Every card has a fan, you know.

 

[kirblar]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";123357158]I still have no idea what Kirblar's numbers represent.

I guess I was wrong and it's 1 in 8 packs now but Mythics are still an annoyance.[/QUOTE]
The odds of pulling any given Mythic is 1 in 121 in a large set. 1 in 80 in a small.

The odds of pulling any given Rare in a pre-Mythic set is 1 in 80 in a large set. 1 in 60 in a small.

Cards that are now Mythic are LESS likely to be opened in any given pack than before the rarity was introduced.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Those big, dumb flavor cards are great when they're not a pitiful bore to play against. Every card has a fan, you know.

Those Commander guys are too hard to cast in a limited deck unless there's some kind of crazy fixing at uncommon/common.

Same problem with the Gods - they just as often as not did nothing interesting and never turned on. All of them absent Thassa are unplayable in constructed outside of sideboards, although I think Erebos might see some play in the next block.

I have my doubts any of the commander guys are going to be heavily played. The only one we've seen is not a great card, either.

 

["God's Beard!"]

The odds of pulling any given Mythic is 1 in 121 in a large set. 1 in 80 in a small.

The odds of pulling any given Rare in a pre-Mythic set is 1 in 80 in a large set. 1 in 60 in a small.

Cards that are now Mythic are LESS likely to be opened in any given pack than before the rarity was introduced.

Ok, that's fine but it doesn't really have anything to do with my statement before.

 

[ultron87]

Weren't you saying that Mythics ruin limited by having every X pack have some "win the game" bomb in it? The point is that before Mythics you were far more likely to open any particular bomb at Rare than when some of those cards got shifted to Mythic. So you'd be more likely to run into some unbeatable card. Ex. Jitte in Kamigawa.

 

[Angry Grimace]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";123358094]Ok, that's fine but it doesn't really have anything to do with my statement before.[/QUOTE]

Its because you said "1 in 7 packs just being a blow-out bomb in draft is gross" which was wrong on a couple of levels. Mostly because (as far as I can tell), you're operating under the assumption that Mythics are actually more powerful than rares from sets before Mythic came out.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Weren't you saying that Mythics ruin limited by having every X pack have some "win the game" bomb in it? The point is that before Mythics you were far more likely to open any particular bomb at Rare than when some of those cards got shifted to Mythic. So you'd be more likely to run into some unbeatable card. Ex. Jitte in Kamigawa.

Oh my problem is that there's an extra rarity that doesn't show up in every pack, not the individual power of the cards. If mythic on average is supposed to be more powerful than rare, then it's annoying that they don't show up in every pack.

I actually said they're not win the game buttons, but generally bombs more powerful than rares. Outside of Scuttling Doom Engine or one or two other cards, every mythic in M15 except the Chain Veil is a super bomb that outclasses the rares.

If Mythics were in every pack, I wouldn't care if they were all Jittes and Mind Sculptors or whatever.

 

[acheron_xl]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";123360116]Oh my problem is that there's an extra rarity that doesn't show up in every pack, not the individual power of the cards. If mythic on average is supposed to be more powerful than rare, then it's annoying that they don't show up in every pack.

I actually said they're not win the game buttons, but generally bombs more powerful than rares. Outside of Scuttling Doom Engine or one or two other cards, every mythic in M15 except the Chain Veil is a super bomb that outclasses the rares.

If Mythics were in every pack, I wouldn't care if they were all Jittes and Mind Sculptors or whatever.[/QUOTE]

If mythics were in every pack, they wouldn't be very mythic, would they?

Random bombs in limited happen. Just be thankful that it's at mythic instead of common as used to be oh, so common.

 

[Firemind]

If mythics were in every pack, they wouldn't be very mythic, would they?

Random bombs in limited happen. Just be thankful that it's at mythic instead of common as used to be oh, so common.

You mean like Battle Screech and Triplicate Spirits?

 

["God's Beard!"]

If mythics were in every pack, they wouldn't be very mythic, would they?

Random bombs in limited happen. Just be thankful that it's at mythic instead of common as used to be oh, so common.

Don't get me wrong, I know why they do it. I just get annoyed by all the variance stuff in Magic really easily.

If it were up to me, you could do partial mulligans in Standard, buy singles off Wizards site for a buck, brainstorm would be in every set, fetchlands would be uncommon and we could all enjoy some fun games of magic for their last year before they go out of business.

 

[kirblar]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";123360116]Oh my problem is that there's an extra rarity that doesn't show up in every pack, not the individual power of the cards. If mythic on average is supposed to be more powerful than rare, then it's annoying that they don't show up in every pack.

I actually said they're not win the game buttons, but generally bombs more powerful than rares. Outside of Scuttling Doom Engine or one or two other cards, every mythic in M15 except the Chain Veil is a super bomb that outclasses the rares.

If Mythics were in every pack, I wouldn't care if they were all Jittes and Mind Sculptors or whatever.[/QUOTE]
They're not supposed to be "more powerful" on average. It's an issue in Core Sets moreso than others due to the heavy % of PWers and Mythic cycles with a lower average power level.

 

[acheron_xl]

You mean like Battle Screech and Triplicate Spirits?

VMA is hardly a real format. It's just an excuse to reprint cards. Something had to fill that slot. Triplicate Spirits might be a mistake, though. I don't really play much limited anymore. I just have memories of Pestilence and Rolling Thunder at common ruining people's days.

 

["God's Beard!"]

I don't mind Triplicate Spirits because on average White hasn't seemed as strong as the other colors in M15 limited.

 

[Cosmo Clock 21]

Read a theory that proposes the khan color identity was done to tie every color pair down to one specific khan, which makes a lot of sense for solving the wedge problem and I'm totally down for it now.

 

[kirblar]

Read a theory that proposes the khan color identity was done to tie every color pair down to one specific khan, which makes a lot of sense for solving the wedge problem and I'm totally down for it now.

Yeah, it makes them easier to distinguish since each card is specifically tied to a tribe via its colors, unlike in Shards' overlap.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Read a theory that proposes the khan color identity was done to tie every color pair down to one specific khan, which makes a lot of sense for solving the wedge problem and I'm totally down for it now.

You mean me, 2 pages ago:

I think its because doing it this way means that every two-color combo "belongs" to a specific wedge. For example, Abzan is WBG centered on W; BW cards would always be Abzan, and not a Mardu one, even though Mardu includes both B and W.

If the color center was the enemy color, for example a BG card could be either Abzan or Sultai because B would be central in Abzan and G would be central in Sultai, with the other color as secondary.

 

[red13th]

That's a great solution they devised, give each wedge an allied pair and an enemy pair. Looking forward to Khans.
Did Sarkhan always look Asian btw? Never noticed it before.

 

[kirblar]

That's a great solution they devised, give each wedge an allied pair and an enemy pair. Looking forward to Khans.
Did Sarkhan always look Asian btw? Never noticed it before.

Definitely.

 

[Firemind]

At first I thought Sarkhan Vol was the embodiment of the metalhead, as depicted in his PW art in SoA, but later they made him look like a badass Mongolian warlord. I approve.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I'm gonna laugh when the next block is not Return to Zendikar as predicted, but is instead, Return to Rabiah, complete with a reprint of King Suleiman to hose people who used the djinns from that one Tarkir clan they said would have djinns.

 

["God's Beard!"]

In case anybody's interested in rotation shells, here's my Soldier Tribal deck right now:

4 sotp
4 nyxborn shieldmate
4 raise the alarm
4 vanguard of brimaz
3 brimaz lion king
3 Fabled Hero
1 Heliod

3 Elspeth sun's champ

4 devouring light
2 banishing light
2 glimpse the sun god

2 Obelisk of Urd

3 Nykthos
21 Plains

Sideboard
2 banishing light
2 ajani's presence
4 nyx fleece ram
4 ajani's pridemate
3 radiant fountain

Basically the plan is to get a turn 3-4 Obelisk into play then commence with the beatdowns. Sideboard has a cheeky Soul Sisters package for the removal-light matchups.

 

[Angry Grimace]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";123412241]In case anybody's interested in rotation shells, here's my Soldier Tribal deck right now:

4 sotp
4 nyxborn shieldmate
4 raise the alarm
4 vanguard of brimaz
3 brimaz lion king
3 Fabled Hero
1 Heliod

3 Elspeth sun's champ

4 devouring light
2 banishing light
2 glimpse the sun god

2 Obelisk of Urd

3 Nykthos
21 Plains

Sideboard
2 banishing light
2 ajani's presence
4 nyx fleece ram
4 ajani's pridemate
3 radiant fountain

Basically the plan is to get a turn 3-4 Obelisk into play then commence with the beatdowns. Sideboard has a cheeky Soul Sisters package for the removal-light matchups.[/QUOTE]

I don't think Obelisk is all that good. Why not just run Spear of Heliod?

 

["God's Beard!"]

I really think Obelisk is a strong card. Spear is kinda cool, but +2/+2 gets crazy. Elspeth Tokens are 3/3s, Nyxborn Shieldmate turns into Brimaz. Raise the alarm is a 2-mana 6/6.