I have a Modern Amulet Combo deck that uses that to ramp into Emrakul. Fun deck. I could probably build this by spending less than $30 based on the cards I have... maybe I should.
Yeef, I've always seen it as "Amulet Combo" haha
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Magic: The Gathering |OT3| Enchantment Under the Siege
- Thread starter The Technomancer
- Start date
- Status
I have a Modern Amulet Combo deck that uses that to ramp into Emrakul. Fun deck. I could probably build this by spending less than $30 based on the cards I have... maybe I should.
Yeef, I've always seen it as "Amulet Combo" haha
SigmasonicX
Member
That's actually used to be how it was, though they did this by simply not printing enemy color lands most of the time. They realized that there are ways to show off allies and enemies without restricting what color pairs are allowed.
"God's Beard!"
Member
For the love of god Wizards, please start printing rare lands at uncommon. It would make draft so much better. Opening a rare land in a competitive draft is kind of annoying since potentially the strongest pack 1 pick 1 that you decide whether to build around is like a 12th pick card.
In terms of power level, temples and painlands are about as good as an uncommon. Seeing one land every three packs is pretty reasonable and actually benefits the draft since you're likely to actually use them as fixing and it doesn't dilute your choices at uncommon, but you don't see them so often it gets annoying.
Having rare lands just makes everybody pick the expensive cards instead of building good decks when you're not at a tournament.
Also, it would cut the price barrier to constructed in half.
In terms of power level, temples and painlands are about as good as an uncommon. Seeing one land every three packs is pretty reasonable and actually benefits the draft since you're likely to actually use them as fixing and it doesn't dilute your choices at uncommon, but you don't see them so often it gets annoying.
Having rare lands just makes everybody pick the expensive cards instead of building good decks when you're not at a tournament.
Also, it would cut the price barrier to constructed in half.
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";123185978]For the love of god Wizards, please start printing rare lands at uncommon. It would make draft so much better. Opening a rare land in a competitive draft is kind of annoying since potentially the strongest pack 1 pick 1 that you decide whether to build around is like a 12th pick card.
In terms of power level, temples and painlands are about as good as an uncommon. Seeing one land every three packs is pretty reasonable and actually benefits the draft since you're likely to actually use them as fixing and it doesn't dilute your choices at uncommon, but you don't see them so often it gets annoying.
Having rare lands just makes everybody pick the expensive cards instead of building good decks when you're not at a tournament.
Also, it would cut the price barrier to constructed in half.[/QUOTE]
This is a feature, not a bug.
In terms of power level, temples and painlands are about as good as an uncommon. Seeing one land every three packs is pretty reasonable and actually benefits the draft since you're likely to actually use them as fixing and it doesn't dilute your choices at uncommon, but you don't see them so often it gets annoying.
Having rare lands just makes everybody pick the expensive cards instead of building good decks when you're not at a tournament.
Also, it would cut the price barrier to constructed in half.[/QUOTE]
This is a feature, not a bug.
A salient point I'm seeing in places about the OP changes is that leaving the choice of PPTQ format up to the stores probably isn't a particularly good idea. If a store gets one of these a season it'll be encouraged to do the one that gets them the most attendance and profit. That format in the majority of cases is going to be Standard. So it might become difficult to find Modern or Sealed PPTQs.
Also, PPTQ needs to the acronym because it makes me giggle.
Also, PPTQ needs to the acronym because it makes me giggle.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Standard is better than the other two so it's cool.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Maybe I'm crazy, but I think Jace, the Living Guildpact is kind of underrated. The +1 means you're drawing cards, the -3 bounces any permanents, and the -8 is totally achievable and pretty gamebreaking. Especially if you happened to have like Ajani or something also.
SigmasonicX
Member
Key point: Jace the Living Guildpact's +1 doesn't draw you cards.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
That was a typo; I somehow deleted/omitted the word "better." My thought is that most of the time, putting one of the cards in your graveyard isn't actually worse than Scry because we don't have fetchlands to shuffle away the stuff we don't want and most of the time, getting to pick the better of 2 cards is probably more advantageous than the alternative, even if sometimes you have the option of 2 cards you want because you still get to pick the better card.
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";123185978]For the love of god Wizards, please start printing rare lands at uncommon. It would make draft so much better. Opening a rare land in a competitive draft is kind of annoying since potentially the strongest pack 1 pick 1 that you decide whether to build around is like a 12th pick card.
In terms of power level, temples and painlands are about as good as an uncommon. Seeing one land every three packs is pretty reasonable and actually benefits the draft since you're likely to actually use them as fixing and it doesn't dilute your choices at uncommon, but you don't see them so often it gets annoying.
Having rare lands just makes everybody pick the expensive cards instead of building good decks when you're not at a tournament.
Also, it would cut the price barrier to constructed in half.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";123220166]Standard is better than the other two so it's cool.[/QUOTE]
Two bad posts in a row, on a roll
In terms of power level, temples and painlands are about as good as an uncommon. Seeing one land every three packs is pretty reasonable and actually benefits the draft since you're likely to actually use them as fixing and it doesn't dilute your choices at uncommon, but you don't see them so often it gets annoying.
Having rare lands just makes everybody pick the expensive cards instead of building good decks when you're not at a tournament.
Also, it would cut the price barrier to constructed in half.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";123220166]Standard is better than the other two so it's cool.[/QUOTE]
Two bad posts in a row, on a roll
Jace The Fifth's ultimate isn't even that good when you realize that the cards (lands) you dumped with his +1 get shuffled back into your deck, increasing your odds of drawing a shitty seven-card hand. I totally did this in a prerelease event and drew, like, five lands. Compare it to Jace The Fourth's ultimate, where you draw twenty (!) cards, The Living Guildpact is pretty weaksauce.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Your opponent has to discard their hand, though, giving massive card advantage. Besides, in Constructed, those aren't necessarily "bad" cards, they're cards you don't want right when you use the +1. Not to mention, the +1 requires you put 1 card in the graveyard. You're talking about putting three cards back in your library.
Besides, Anime Jace is mostly good to mill the opponent out.
divisionbyzorro
Member
I'm not saying his ultimate is bad, but it's not exactly game-breaking either, considering his other weak abilities.
A part of me wished his -3 functioned as Boomerang, since it'd fuck with Underworld Connections shenanigans, but I suppose they haven't printed something that can affect lands for years now (Vraska as additional proof). It probably means Vindicate won't be reprinted any time soon either and be Modern legal.
A part of me wished his -3 functioned as Boomerang, since it'd fuck with Underworld Connections shenanigans, but I suppose they haven't printed something that can affect lands for years now (Vraska as additional proof). It probably means Vindicate won't be reprinted any time soon either and be Modern legal.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Am I wrong to think that WotC may have taken the first steps towards killing Modern by letting stores choose their PPTQ format? Or has Modern got enough of a foothold to stick around regardless?
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
You don't think drawing back up to 7 while your opponent discards to 0 is game breaking? What is, then?
They aren't going to print decent land destruction any time soon either. Land draws are already enough variance without getting them blown up.
Nothing short of Karn's ultimate.
If this system is even around in a year, I'm guessing they will go back to seasonal formats
If your opponent can't deal with Jace and let him ultimate, then suffice to say his cards in hand are irrelevant. So the main draw to ultimate is drawing seven cards. Like I said, it's worse than actually drawing seven cards, since you're able to draw your fetches again (assuming they're getting reprinted) or whatever you pitched with his +1. It's not as back-breaking as TMS or Memory Adept.
But the main point is that it's the only way to garner any sort of card advantage from him. Beleren and AoT can simply generate card advantage with their minus abilities and ignore their ultimates, which don't take three turns to setup.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
The difference is that you actually could get to the ultimate on JLG and you can't really on JTMS or JMA, unless you're doing something very odd. And being unable to punch through and hit a Planeswalker isn't the same thing as losing. Board states where you can't profitably attack but you aren't necessarily on the verge of losing occur all the time. I don't think its a win-more at all.
Besides, I think the +1 is undervalued. Drawing better cards in your draw step is not quite as good as straight drawing cards, but its not inconsequential.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Good point. I forgot about the Modern IQs since they don't stream them (yet).
What? I've ultimated JTMS a couple of times and seen it happen a lot of times. Scrying your opponent from drawing threats and ultimating was one of the main win conditions for a number of control decks. For JMA, the ultimate is a natural sequence, since everyone uses his +1 to draw extra cards, not to mill opponents with his minus ability (unless it's limited), and drawing twenty cards > drawing one card.
I think it will be a regional thing. Enough people locally have bought into modern now that there will be demand but I can see that not being the case everywhere.
"God's Beard!"
Member
I'll put it this way: Thassa is a better Planeswalker than Jace, Living Guildpact.
Maybe if he had a -2 instead of 3 and it bounced lands he'd see play. Or maybe there's some Sultai delve build that really needs you to dump cards at a weird, less-than-dredge level.
And his ultimate actually sucks. If you can ult out on turn 8 and your opponent still has cards in hand, either your opponent top-decked a counterspell, is missing on lands, you're about to die and they don't care or you're just way ahead. I don't see any matchup where you would A: want to keep +1ing and B: your opponent can't do anything about it. His ultimate only has barely more ultility than Memory Adept's, and that's only because MA's ultimate was just a worse version of his 0. Mind Sculptor has one of the easiest paths to Ultimate out there. And Architect's is actually a real plan in some matchups.
He's a 4-mana cyclonic rift that gains you two life off your opponent's mutavault. And I don't see him getting much better than that.
The truth hurts, I know.
Maybe if he had a -2 instead of 3 and it bounced lands he'd see play. Or maybe there's some Sultai delve build that really needs you to dump cards at a weird, less-than-dredge level.
And his ultimate actually sucks. If you can ult out on turn 8 and your opponent still has cards in hand, either your opponent top-decked a counterspell, is missing on lands, you're about to die and they don't care or you're just way ahead. I don't see any matchup where you would A: want to keep +1ing and B: your opponent can't do anything about it. His ultimate only has barely more ultility than Memory Adept's, and that's only because MA's ultimate was just a worse version of his 0. Mind Sculptor has one of the easiest paths to Ultimate out there. And Architect's is actually a real plan in some matchups.
He's a 4-mana cyclonic rift that gains you two life off your opponent's mutavault. And I don't see him getting much better than that.
The truth hurts, I know.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";123237509]I'll put it this way: Thassa is a better Planeswalker than Jace, Living Guildpact.
Maybe if he had a -2 instead of 3 and it bounced lands he'd see play. Or maybe there's some Sultai delve build that really needs you to dump cards at a weird, less-than-dredge level.
And his ultimate actually sucks. If you can ult out on turn 8 and your opponent still has cards in hand, either your opponent top-decked a counterspell, is missing on lands, you're about to die and they don't care or you're just way ahead. I don't see any matchup where you would A: want to keep +1ing and B: your opponent can't do anything about it. His ultimate only has barely more ultility than Memory Adept's, and that's only because MA's ultimate was just a worse version of his 0. Mind Sculptor has one of the easiest paths to Ultimate out there. And Architect's is actually a real plan in some matchups.
He's a 4-mana cyclonic rift that gains you two life off your opponent's mutavault. And I don't see him getting much better than that.
The truth hurts, I know.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, because Mutavault will be in standard for more than two months. I know you love your Esper deck, but you have to think about cards in a universe where people play something other than you getting God draws all day, just sayin'.
Maybe if he had a -2 instead of 3 and it bounced lands he'd see play. Or maybe there's some Sultai delve build that really needs you to dump cards at a weird, less-than-dredge level.
And his ultimate actually sucks. If you can ult out on turn 8 and your opponent still has cards in hand, either your opponent top-decked a counterspell, is missing on lands, you're about to die and they don't care or you're just way ahead. I don't see any matchup where you would A: want to keep +1ing and B: your opponent can't do anything about it. His ultimate only has barely more ultility than Memory Adept's, and that's only because MA's ultimate was just a worse version of his 0. Mind Sculptor has one of the easiest paths to Ultimate out there. And Architect's is actually a real plan in some matchups.
He's a 4-mana cyclonic rift that gains you two life off your opponent's mutavault. And I don't see him getting much better than that.
The truth hurts, I know.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, because Mutavault will be in standard for more than two months. I know you love your Esper deck, but you have to think about cards in a universe where people play something other than you getting God draws all day, just sayin'.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Yeah, but Living Guildpact is never going to be in standard when Thassa isn't, so it doesn't really matter.
It was just an example. The fact that it also dies to basically any second creature after you -3 doesn't make it better. Unless you're playing against the old "one creature before turn 4" classic aggro strategy. I'm not going to pretend I know what's in the next block, but I don't see any real potential for Jace.
Playing two creatures before turn 4 is a god draw?
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";123239573]Yeah, but Living Guildpact is never going to be in standard when Thassa isn't, so it doesn't really matter.
It was just an example. The fact that it also dies to basically any second creature after you -3 doesn't make it better. Unless you're playing against the old "one creature before turn 4" classic aggro strategy. I'm not going to pretend I know what's in the next block, but I don't see any real potential for Jace.[/QUOTE]
You have a tendency to evaluate cards by setting up very elaborate scenarios from your personal deck, e.g. JLG bounces a creature, but you have zero creatures, and then they hit you with the second creature! This is a bad way to evaluate cards. You could argue Kiora, Vraska, Jace, the Mind Sculptor, and practically every other PW is a bad card with the exact same argument.
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";123239573]Playing two creatures before turn 4 is a god draw?[/QUOTE]
"Dies to two creatures when you also have 0 creatures" AND on turn 4 is about as good of an argument as "dies in your hand to Thoughtseize." Every PW other than Karn dies in your scenario. Even Karn dies a lot of the time in that scenario, in fact.
It was just an example. The fact that it also dies to basically any second creature after you -3 doesn't make it better. Unless you're playing against the old "one creature before turn 4" classic aggro strategy. I'm not going to pretend I know what's in the next block, but I don't see any real potential for Jace.[/QUOTE]
You have a tendency to evaluate cards by setting up very elaborate scenarios from your personal deck, e.g. JLG bounces a creature, but you have zero creatures, and then they hit you with the second creature! This is a bad way to evaluate cards. You could argue Kiora, Vraska, Jace, the Mind Sculptor, and practically every other PW is a bad card with the exact same argument.
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";123239573]Playing two creatures before turn 4 is a god draw?[/QUOTE]
"Dies to two creatures when you also have 0 creatures" AND on turn 4 is about as good of an argument as "dies in your hand to Thoughtseize." Every PW other than Karn dies in your scenario. Even Karn dies a lot of the time in that scenario, in fact.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Ok, fine. You can technically ultimate Jace when you have board parity or advantage. so in that case it's just a bad card because it doesn't do anything until you ultimate, and the ultimate doesn't end the game.
Architect of Thought and Mind Sculptor have reasonable paths to ultimate because their +1s affect the game in a real positive way. Unless you're using his +1 to stick cards in the graveyard, it's just a really bad scry effect.
And who knows? Maybe that really does matter in Khans. But I'm not going to judge him based on that.
Right now this is what the text looks like to me:
Suspend 4 - 2UU
Draw 7 Cards.
Whenever you take damage, add that many time counters to Jace, Living Guildpact.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
So I really want some Vendilion Cliques on MODO, but I spent all my money for the month on MTG. I guess I could sell some of my extra Force of Will, but I also feel like I should be holding on to those for when they appreciate. Do we think its going to go back up after VMA goes away?
"God's Beard!"
Member
Force of Will is probably always going to up.
divisionbyzorro
Member
My life became so much less stressful when I stopped playing Constructed.
My life became so much less stressful when I stopped playing Constructed.
Oh, you'll play constructed. You'll play it alright
when they announce a constructed GP right at your doorstep.
54 GPs a year now. Can't wait for the GP 2015 schedule!
"God's Beard!"
Member
Man, I have friends that'll drive 4-5 hours just to go to a PTQ. I'm so glad I live in San Francisco.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
But constructed is the only format where you can play the best card, Bitterblossom.
"God's Beard!"
Member
I know that feeling. I just want to play a deck with 2013 Vindicates in it. They're so pretty.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";123247859]I know that feeling. I just want to play a deck with 2013 Vindicates in it. They're so pretty.[/QUOTE]
Vindicate will be reprinted in standard sometime between now and Hell Freezing Over.
*In fact, I talked to a developer at SDCC about Magic and some other guy was like "can you reprint Vindicate" and he just started laughing and was like "no."
Vindicate will be reprinted in standard sometime between now and Hell Freezing Over.
*In fact, I talked to a developer at SDCC about Magic and some other guy was like "can you reprint Vindicate" and he just started laughing and was like "no."
I think you meant to say Cube.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Dropping three of them is the fun part.
blindrocket
Member
Vindicate
"God's Beard!"
Member
Plea for Guidance the new tech for BW Tokens
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";123241118]Ok, fine. You can technically ultimate Jace when you have board parity or advantage. so in that case it's just a bad card because it doesn't do anything until you ultimate, and the ultimate doesn't end the game.
Architect of Thought and Mind Sculptor have reasonable paths to ultimate because their +1s affect the game in a real positive way. Unless you're using his +1 to stick cards in the graveyard, it's just a really bad scry effect.
And who knows? Maybe that really does matter in Khans. But I'm not going to judge him based on that.
Right now this is what the text looks like to me:
Suspend 4 - 2UU
Draw 7 Cards.
Whenever you take damage, add that many time counters to Jace, Living Guildpact.[/QUOTE]
I don't think Jace Living Guildpact is a great card but I think it could be usable, even before knowing what's in Khans.
The key reason for running it in any deck, IMO, is its flexibility. He provides an immediate answer to board threats and also helps with sequencing of plays. At 4 mana for 5 loyalty, he's not easy to take down too.
I am somewhat surprised that you don't see much value in him though. After all, you are willing to take a 4-hit on turn one to cast Thoughtseize while running Esper Control so I'd think you would appreciate his +1 at the very least.
Architect of Thought and Mind Sculptor have reasonable paths to ultimate because their +1s affect the game in a real positive way. Unless you're using his +1 to stick cards in the graveyard, it's just a really bad scry effect.
And who knows? Maybe that really does matter in Khans. But I'm not going to judge him based on that.
Right now this is what the text looks like to me:
Suspend 4 - 2UU
Draw 7 Cards.
Whenever you take damage, add that many time counters to Jace, Living Guildpact.[/QUOTE]
I don't think Jace Living Guildpact is a great card but I think it could be usable, even before knowing what's in Khans.
The key reason for running it in any deck, IMO, is its flexibility. He provides an immediate answer to board threats and also helps with sequencing of plays. At 4 mana for 5 loyalty, he's not easy to take down too.
I am somewhat surprised that you don't see much value in him though. After all, you are willing to take a 4-hit on turn one to cast Thoughtseize while running Esper Control so I'd think you would appreciate his +1 at the very least.
divisionbyzorro
Member
I've never actually been to a GP. I should do it one of these days; I've spent the past two years in Perth, where the closest GP involves a 4-6 hour flight. I technically could have attended GP Houston last year, but it just didn't fit my schedule.
GPs just really aren't for the married-with-kids crowd; it's hard to find the time to do it with everything else going on.
"God's Beard!"
Member
If we're talking about now then it's worse than Architect in 100% of my matchups. And architect is already weaker than I'd like against a lot of the field. I cut my fourth one for an AEtherspouts.
As for Thoughtseize, that's just the reality of my deck. I'm never going to run swamps so the best I can do is swap the godless shrines for caves of koilos and take 1. I'm never going to not turn one thoughtseize an unknown opponent when it's available.
Sure, the rift on jace is flexible, but four mana for tempo is just not good. And plusing to get out of aggro range is bad when it doesn't do anything.
Jace is like a four mana Thassa that doesn't make creatures unblockable, or a four mana vraska that doesn't kill its minus targets. At best he's a really slow Sphinx's Revelation.
To me, Kiora's +1 is about as good as Jace's minus and she ends up one loyalty higher, and her minus is way better than his plus. If you guys can show me a home for Jace I'll gladly eat my words. I even have a copy of the dude. But I just don't see it.
Scythesurge
Member
Hasn't there been a lot of hinting of graveyard interactions in Khans? I could see Jace Guildpact's +1 becoming a lot more relevant if so, that BUG shell already has a bunch of really strong cards...just Khans speculation though
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked